OT: Is Kung Fu Good Women Deterrent?

[neilhytholt]

Just had lunch with a just turned 30 single woman-friend and a couple of her girlfriends ... evidently the women out there are getting desperate to find guys. She's got 3 single friends and they're going to start learning how to play golf next week so they can meet guys.

Conversation started leaning towards dating, etc, until I mentioned martial arts, upon which time "check", and that was that.

Is martial arts good women deterrent? Or are women out there just really picky. I'm not interested, but if I were looking for a woman it seems like it would be frustrating because they seem so picky these days.

I mean, 3 women complaining they can't find a guy but mention martial arts and they go running. ???

[Chief Fox]

Maybe they went running because you're a d0rk.

Did you tell them that you were pretty good with a bow staff?

[Banjos_dad]

maybe she had problems with violent men in her past & when she heard 'kung fu,' she just thought she wanted nothing to do with any kind of fighting... i know that's a very narrow view of what kung fu is, but then never underestimate the general public's ignorance on any kind of martial arts subject.
Some women, it has the opposite effect. They feel 'safe' around you and also like it that you are keeping up with exercise, so they don't have to worry about you having a stroke at age 50 and then they're trapped wiping your ass for you for the next 30 yrs.

you find the right match -up and all your worries will be water under the bridge.
peace

[SPJ]

Just mention you do Tai Chi, yoga for health and fitness.

not mentioning any fighting at all.

:D

[Shaolinlueb]

Just mention you do Tai Chi, yoga for health and fitness.

not mentioning any fighting at all.

:D

exactly ;)

[neilhytholt]

Yep, we were talking about kids, and some of them have kids, and I mentioned my kids, and then the talk went around a bit, and they asked what I was doing recently, and I said I was spending a lot of time with martial arts.

They all kindof looked at each other, and I didn't even have time to say that I was teaching my kids, and then one of them snagged the waiter and asked for the check. Very weird.

Don't know what's up with that.

Anyways if it is good women deterrent, then all the better. You can never have too few women in your life.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

i think the fact that you're a misogynist is a good woman deterrent.

not that i fault you for it mind you.

[neilhytholt]

i think the fact that you're a misogynist is a good woman deterrent.

not that i fault you for it mind you.

I'm not a misogynist. I just don't think women in the U.S. are trained well.

Women in traditional cultures were trained to be nice to men. Women today are trained to be independent, in charge, etc.

So, personally, I don't mind too much women being independent or in charge. As long as they don't expect me to pay for them or put up with them nagging me about stuff.

It's a double-edged sword. They want to be the same as guys, then they get treated the same as guys.

The problem is women in the U.S. want to be independent and in charge, and at the same time have the benefits women used to have when men were in control (benefits such as being supported, getting big divorce payouts, etc.) That's what ticks me off.

[neilhytholt]

Anyway, if I had to characterize what's happening, is that some men are wising up, and are refusing to marry women, or let women be in charge over them.

So I run now into a lot of single confused women, like the women at the table today. They want to be equals, but at the same time, they expect men to treat them like women used to be treated.

They can't find guys who are going to do that, or guys who live up to their huge standards, so they are single. They might date a little bit, but they can't find Mr. Right. Or Mr. Will Commit.

Since committing means essentially giving up a lot of your freedom and possible financial repurcussions, for what? So you can deal with a bossy lady and sleep with her when she feels like it?

So a lot of these women are single, and frustrated, and confused. I guess. Anyways, they hang around in cliques complaining about men a lot. LOL

[Chief Fox]

I'm pretty sure they left the table because they thought you were a d0rk.

[neilhytholt]

I'm pretty sure they left the table because they thought you were a d0rk.

Well, yeah, you have a good point. Because all these women are very successful, take a lot of pride in their appearance, spend a ton of money (more than they make, evidently), on nice new cars, have nice houses with lots of stuff.

I don't really want to go into debt for all that stuff. And with 2 kids, saving $ for their college, and all, It's hard to compete with that.

Basically they won't be happy with somebody who isn't as outwardly successful as they are. So they are alone.

So yes, I'm sure they thought I was a d0rk A loser d0rk who doesn't drive a brand new car and doesn't have a manicure, hair dye, Armani suit, etc.

But honestly, if that's what it takes to get a 30+ year old bossy woman who will just pile on the debt, then I guess maybe being a d0rk is good woman repellent.

[David Jamieson]

Successful and monied women are a relatively new thing in society.

there's a lotta grey area out there and even women are still testing the waters with this whole new way of society.

It wasn't so long ago that ward and june cleaver were the gold standard of the social construct in the western world.

as for trained women, lol, maybe you should just move to dubai or saudi arabia or something. you aren't gonna find rosy honeysuckle dutiful wife and mother around no mo. she be gone, left with alice. back in 75. :p

[ricksitterly]

it sounds like those babes don't know what real ultimate power is. you should have showed them your huge ninja bo-staff.

[chaiwai]

Just mention you do Tai Chi, yoga for health and fitness.

not mentioning any fighting at all.

:D

Careful with that, she may think that you like men.

[BruceSteveRoy]

It has been my experience that 30 something women look at martial arts as something for kids. so when you start saying you are really in to them they equate that with you being childish or immature. if they are career driven most women also arent interested in men with hobbies that aren't related to their jobs. that is probably why they want to learn golf to meet men. the type of men they want to meet play golf bc a good many business transactions take place on golf courses. doctors golf, lawyers and judges golf. not to say that the average person doesnt also golf its just to say that you find a lot of professiosals out there. people that tend to be really into MA (unless they own a school that is making money) tend to look at the job as a way to pay for MA not as a hobby to suplement their life (and by life i mean job).

[Eddie]

why would you want a 30something chick int he first place? :rolleyes: if shes single at 30, shes probably tainted ;) . I was picturing some scene out of sex and the city, and how the chicks probably discussed you in all details after you left. :cool:

either get a younger one, or try hang around big TKD schools to get one thats into martial arts. maybe join a martial artsist dating service.

[Royal Dragon]

I was out on a date reacently, and the subject came up. I have been talking to this girl for sometime, and I mentioned that I couldn't be with her on a certian day because I had to be at the school. She asked, so I tolde her that i am part of a kung Fu school, and I teach a little bit. She was like "Wow", how come you never said anything? I'd think you'd want to talk about that!"

My reply was something to the effect of "Why? most people could care less, no sense in boring others with my persuites" Apparenlty she thinks it was something special, and really cool, and did not understand why I have such a nonchelont attitude about it.

I had to stop talking to her because I discovered that she think's the dolls in her collection were real children, and i was expected to relate to them as such. It was hard when they would interrupt dinner conversations because they were misbehaiving and had to be sent to thier rooms....so i ran away in great fear. :eek:

[Royal Dragon]

why would you want a 30something chick int he first place? if

Reply]
Because I'm 38, and I can't find anyone my own age that still has a nice butt :(

[Eddie]

but thats why god invented 20 year olds ;)


before people flame me ... im happilly married, and not a sexist whatever

[Hard Fists]

Well, yeah, you have a good point. Because all these women are very successful, take a lot of pride in their appearance, spend a ton of money (more than they make, evidently), on nice new cars, have nice houses with lots of stuff.

In my experience, most of these types really dig the bad/nice guy thing. Especially if you are really nice-by really nice I mean not a chauvinist and generally good to people around you-and if you are able to hold your own and command respect of those around you at the same time. You know, the tough guy that doesn't have to act tough. You sound sensitive enough to be able to get laid, what seems to be the problem? You just need to go in and seal the deal. Act nonchalant when you talk about martial arts, then practice crazy kung fu sex on em.

Or you could just be a d0rk LOL.

Why don't we take this time to work on your game, Neil? Let's get you laid.

[D-FENS]

Seriously... what is it with people who feel the need to come on the internet and proclaim to the world how much they suck in the romance department? That's not doing much for your cause right now, man.

Bottom line is, women dig guys with status and power in life. Those are just the rules of teh jungle. It's not about your car, or how much money you make, or any of that external stuff. What you need is a total attitude transplant. It CAN be done, you just gotta want it and be willing to work for it and **** it up enough times for you to get it right. That's all it is bro. No ancient Chinese secret or nothing. ;)

Now pls, FFS, quit yer whinin! :D

[SPJ]

Careful with that, she may think that you like men.

OOPs.

I think in a dinner or party try not to talk shop, such as sports, work, Kung fu. politics etc.

Just listen and be understanding and supportive.

You will be liked.

Be a friend first.

If you have to talk about your self, be brief and have a sense of humor.

Seriousness kills the conversation and the party.

If you know someone for a while and be alone with her, then you may open your heart a bit.

--

:D

[Royal Dragon]

I have learned that it is best not to talk about yourself to women much. If you do, you are a boar, and they don't like you. If you make them work for it, and drag things out of you, it keeps thier intrest because you are mysterious. It doesn't matter what the topic is.

Take martial arts, if you DON'T talk about it, and later when they figure out you do this, it will be cool and interesting, so long as you try to exclude them from it. Make them really work to be part of that aspect of your life and they will be facinated by it.

also, if you are rude at just the right time, and indifferent and pay no attention to them at just the right times, that drives them wild too.

it's wierd, but if you ignore them a bit, (but not too much), they end up pouring on the attention!

[BruceSteveRoy]

OOPs.

I think in a dinner or party try not to talk shop, such as sports, work, Kung fu. politics etc.

Just listen and be understanding and supportive.

You will be liked.

Be a friend first.

If you have to talk about your self, be brief and have a sense of humor.

Seriousness kills the conversation and the party.

If you know someone for a while and be alone with her, then you may open your heart a bit.

--

:D
Bro, that is how you get stuck in the friend zone

[Royal Dragon]

Not if you know how to gentily caress thier necks while they chatter on and on about nonsense. :D

[BruceSteveRoy]

I have learned that it is best not to talk about yourself to women much. If you do, you are a boar, and they don't like you. If you make them work for it, and drag things out of you, it keeps thier intrest because you are mysterious. It doesn't matter what the topic is.

Take martial arts, if you DON'T talk about it, and later when they figure out you do this, it will be cool and interesting, so long as you try to exclude them from it. Make them really work to be part of that aspect of your life and they will be facinated by it.

also, if you are rude at just the right time, and indifferent and pay no attention to them at just the right times, that drives them wild too.

it's wierd, but if you ignore them a bit, (but not too much), they end up pouring on the attention!

too much work. my advice is just be yourself. if they dont like it than its their loss. the truth is if you arent comfortable with who you are they wont be comfortable with who you are. not to say you can have insecurities or whatever but just play to your strengths in the getting to know you stage.
in my experience if you play the passive aggressive head games you end up with crazy, emotionally unstable women. they are the ones that respond to that stuff. they are the insecure women that feel this pressing need to get to know "the real you" and if they arent crazy they get bored once they know that there is a lot less to the real you than they had thought. Its like the disappointment of seeing the man behind the curtain while you thought you were talking to the great and powerful oz.

[neilhytholt]

In my experience, most of these types really dig the bad/nice guy thing. Especially if you are really nice-by really nice I mean not a chauvinist and generally good to people around you-and if you are able to hold your own and command respect of those around you at the same time. You know, the tough guy that doesn't have to act tough. You sound sensitive enough to be able to get laid, what seems to be the problem? You just need to go in and seal the deal. Act nonchalant when you talk about martial arts, then practice crazy kung fu sex on em.

Or you could just be a d0rk LOL.

Why don't we take this time to work on your game, Neil? Let's get you laid.

Getting laid is so boring. If you want a real challenge, try being a single dad of two rambuctuous children.

I guess the bottom line is I have no respect for these women. They are fake. All that fake hair dye, the laser wrinkle surgery, the expensive mortgages, the new cars, all that, what use is it?

They have no real value to me. Can they make waffles in the morning, can they entertain 2 kids + a bunch of friends, can they teach their 5 year old martial arts so he's so excited that he gets all his friends interested as well, can they do construction around the house and construction around their school?

No, they cannot. They just act pretty and pretend to be important. They are boring.

[Chief Fox]

Getting laid is so boring. If you want a real challenge, try being a single dad of two rambuctuous children.

I guess the bottom line is I have no respect for these women. They are fake. All that fake hair dye, the laser wrinkle surgery, the expensive mortgages, the new cars, all that, what use is it?

They have no real value to me. Can they make waffles in the morning, can they entertain 2 kids + a bunch of friends, can they teach their 5 year old martial arts so he's so excited that he gets all his friends interested as well, can they do construction around the house and construction around their school?

No, they cannot. They just act pretty and pretend to be important. They are boring.
The above is why they got up and walked away, not becuase you were talking about kung fu.

Let me ask you this. If these women are so fake and boring, why do you associate with them?

[neilhytholt]

The above is why they got up and walked away, not becuase you were talking about kung fu.

Let me ask you this. If these women are so fake and boring, why do you associate with them?

She asked me to lunch. But you have a good point -- I have no idea.

Edit ...

You know, thinking about this a bit more, one common theme in the conversation was all these women were like, "I don't know what to do with my life." They're searching.

It really seems like it's a new paradigm for women to be successful and stand on their own, and it doesn't seem like they have a clue what to do with it. Somebody must have told them that success is the hair dye, expensive clothes, expensive car, expensive house and all that, but it doesn't really seem like that's making them happy.

But who knows. Maybe I'm just rationalizing a bunch of women thinking I'm a loser. :)

[Hard Fists]

Getting laid doesn't have to be a challenge at all. I know how important being a parent is and I know that there is probably a lot going on in your house right now. But let me ask you this: were the three girls hot? Yo, you may have just been able seriously nurture the ol one eyed monk if you know what I mean. If the girls were shallow that usually equates to EASY TO SCREW. You may have just passed up a wonderful two martini lunch followed by a three yuppi hottie buffet. We need to discuss your priorities here. I mean you are single, right? I don't care who you are, if the pope had a chance to hit three hottie well off singles in one day I bet he would....okay, mabye not the pope, but you get the picture. Single father of two does not mean DEAD TO THE TOUCH. You gotta get a little recreation in your life. I read in a post on another thread that you are not interested in finding a new wife...well, go ahead and have fun then. Don't kick the girls out of your bed for getting crackers on the sheets-nobody is perfect and you don't have to marry them.

[David Jamieson]

I think if the current pope hitthree hotties after lunch, they'd be looking for a new pope by 1 o:clock.

he's an old dude. lol

[neilhytholt]

Getting laid doesn't have to be a challenge at all. I know how important being a parent is and I know that there is probably a lot going on in your house right now. But let me ask you this: were the three girls hot? Yo, you may have just been able seriously nurture the ol one eyed monk if you know what I mean. If the girls were shallow that usually equates to EASY TO SCREW. You may have just passed up a wonderful two martini lunch followed by a three yuppi hottie buffet. We need to discuss your priorities here. I mean you are single, right? I don't care who you are, if the pope had a chance to hit three hottie well off singles in one day I bet he would....okay, mabye not the pope, but you get the picture. Single father of two does not mean DEAD TO THE TOUCH. You gotta get a little recreation in your life. I read in a post on another thread that you are not interested in finding a new wife...well, go ahead and have fun then. Don't kick the girls out of your bed for getting crackers on the sheets-nobody is perfect and you don't have to marry them.

You have to understand that after my divorce I don't see women as hot sex objects anymore, more like wolves in sheep's clothing who will if given the chance completely destroy your life without a thought.

In fact, after finding out how bad a lot of women like my ex are at cheating, and all the STDs out there, it's so bad that honestly I'm pretty much turned off to sex now.

I can't even think about kissing a woman without worrying that she's got mouth herpes or mouth papilloma virus.

[Hard Fists]

I think you need to begin by relaxing a little bit. Women can tell if your not interested in them, perhaps that's the reason the girls got up from the table. Sounds like you have some healing to do from your divorce, if you don't feel like rushing things, don't. I know I couldn't just jump right in if my wife suddenly took off and I had the kids and myself to worry about all of the time.

But beware, the way you are talking, even if you don't see it now, may wind you up married again before you know it. Which may not be a bad thing if the woman is nice and you really want to do it. Just don't psyche yourself out man.

Personnaly, I think you need to get laid. Laid well. Perhaps a good ol BJJ for a happy finish. It may change your mind about the sex object thing unless you want to switch sides or something...which is cool too if that's what you want. As for STDs, wrap your jimmy man.

[neilhytholt]

I think you need to begin by relaxing a little bit. Women can tell if your not interested in them, perhaps that's the reason the girls got up from the table. Sounds like you have some healing to do from your divorce, if you don't feel like rushing things, don't. I know I couldn't just jump right in if my wife suddenly took off and I had the kids and myself to worry about all of the time.

But beware, the way you are talking, even if you don't see it now, may wind you up married again before you know it. Which may not be a bad thing if the woman is nice and you really want to do it. Just don't psyche yourself out man.

Personnaly, I think you need to get laid. Laid well. Perhaps a good ol BJJ for a happy finish. It may change your mind about the sex object thing unless you want to switch sides or something...which is cool too if that's what you want. As for STDs, wrap your jimmy man.

Wrapping the jimmy doesn't cover the jimmy entirely and you can't do a lot of things.

I don't really think you are understanding my take on this. I'm kindof shell-shocked to women now. I see them and I see disaster. I think about kissing them and I see herpes sores and mouth warts.

IMHO the only safe sex is no sex. Literally.

But on the bonus side, I'm totally busy with the kids, so I don't have time for women or sex anyway.

[David Jamieson]

The hate is strong with this one...lol

dude, unless you switch teams, get over it

[neilhytholt]

The hate is strong with this one...lol

dude, unless you switch teams, get over it

You don't get it. It's not hate.

You know, I used to do a lot of offroad bike riding. And sometimes I'd have extremely bad crashes, lots of road rash, etc., and it was like a physical thing. It was hard to get back on the bike.

Once I broke my arm and it took me about 18 months before I even wanted to look at a bike again.

So with the women thing. I just don't want to deal with them in that way anymore. That's the bottom line. They are not sex objects to me. They are just people.

[David Jamieson]

dude, a lot of what you are saying is indicative of mysogynistic tendencies.

but, i guess it's hard to look at yourself and what you say without subjectivity..if not impossible.

[neilhytholt]

dude, a lot of what you are saying is indicative of mysogynistic tendencies.

but, i guess it's hard to look at yourself and what you say without subjectivity..if not impossible.

Puleeze ... I'm not a misogynist. All I'm saying is I don't want to deal with a woman romantically. How hard is that to understand?

WHATEVER.

I don't want to sleep with men either because I'm not sexually attracted to them. In fact, I think the entire idea with sex with men is absolutely disgusting. They're totally hairy and gross.

So does that make me a man-hater too? Does it make me h0m0phobic? Does it make me a closet h0m0phobe? Or a closet h0m0? No.

I've been through all those arguments before. They're fallacious reasoning.

[BruceSteveRoy]

i would say give it time. you said yourself after you broke your arm it took 18 months to look at a bike again. but you did look at a bike again. it will take longer with the women thing most likely but eventually you will get over it. from what you are saying if you got into a relationship of any kind (more than friendship) it would be disasterous. of course from what you are saying you dont want one so i guess its a moot point. As for the mouth herpes or whatever, you should probably not worry about it. you would see if they were having an outbreak of it and if there is no open sore you won't contract it. i dont know about mouth warts but the HPV is carried by lots and lots and lots of men that dont even know it. it is innocuous to men. it only is dangerous to women bc it leads to cervical cancer. i never heard of it in the mouth though. dont know where i am going with this so i'll stop now.

[neilhytholt]

i would say give it time. you said yourself after you broke your arm it took 18 months to look at a bike again. but you did look at a bike again. it will take longer with the women thing most likely but eventually you will get over it. from what you are saying if you got into a relationship of any kind (more than friendship) it would be disasterous. of course from what you are saying you dont want one so i guess its a moot point. As for the mouth herpes or whatever, you should probably not worry about it. you would see if they were having an outbreak of it and if there is no open sore you won't contract it. i dont know about mouth herpes but the HPV is carried by lots and lots and lots of men that dont even know it. it is innocuous to men. it only is dangerous to women bc it leads to cervical cancer. i never heard of it in the mouth though. dont know where i am going with this so i'll stop now.

Thanks for the advice, but you can transfer herpes even without out breaks, as they point out on those T.V. ads. The lack of outbreaks just lessens the chance.

You know, 25% of women and 20% of men have herpes-2. Did you know that? Check the CDC stats if you don't believe me.

As for the HPV innocuous, you still get warts. I guess warts aren't that bad, but they are still disgusting.

Basically, IMHO people place too much importance on sex and romance. Most people evidently are so weak that they cannot be without sex or some romance in their life, and they constantly pine for it.

But it's just sex. It's just procreation. It's not really that important to life compared to eating, sleeping, friends and all that.

As I get older I guess I get more conservative but IMHO all those prohibitions against adultery and all that were to deal with these very problems that we're facing now as a society.

IMHO as a society we are sick now. People jump from one relationship to another without thought, without thinking about the repercussions or impacts. So basically I've decided that I'm done. Once my kids are grown up, I might consider a relationship but I highly doubt I'm going to want a romantic relationship when I'm in my late 50s or 60s.

[neilhytholt]

Anyways I'm sorry I brought this entire topic up. It just seemed interesting that those women would think martial arts was stupid.

But I don't want to get into the why doesn't Neil get remarried or date thing AGAIN.

You know, people can accept h0m0sexuals.

People can accept heterosexuals.

Why can't people accept asexuals? You know, monks and nuns used to go without sex. They weren't all pedophiles like some minority of priests.

Most people, especially older women and married men, LOL, have times they don't get sex. Why do you think romance novels and porn sells so well?

[Banjos_dad]

A woman who does not understand the value of a man who can and will kick ass when the situation calls for it, is fortunate enough to have been well-insulated from the world that is out there.
Here in albuquerque where i live, it's kind of rough in most parts of town. Add to that the preponderance of untrained loudmouth idiots and superficial gang banger wannabees, it is what you might call a hostile environment. I learned the need for self defense skill here. When i hear people claim that in today's modern society with cell phones and 911 emergency service, firearms and modern police strategies, 'there is no need for actual fighting skills,' it marks the person who said that as either inexperienced, clueless or one of those people that will just say anything no matter how senseless.
Find someone with enough life experience to value what YOU bring to the table.
If a woman doesn't value a person's training, perhaps it is because she needs someone to dominate, a push-over.
There are a lot worse things to experience than being passed over by some soft rich broad because you're not wishy-washy enough ;)

other than that brove, all you can do is sift thru the marbles in search of a jewel. they are out there, you have to seek them out.

[neilhytholt]

See, that's the thing. These women don't value men. They don't think about the fact that men build their houses. Men move their furniture. Men are primarily the ones who do the engineering, technical things, etc.

To them, men are nothing but hood ornaments, I guess.

I would tell them that I value women as the ones who have babies and usually take care of them, but then I would be being sexist. LOL

[Water Dragon]

Bro, you need counseling. Seriously.

Of course women respect men; a lot. If they're not respecting you, you need to figure out why that is. I have a pretty good idea just from reading this thread, but I don't think you do.

I'll tell you this though. It's not the women that's the problem.

[SPJ]

Friend zone may not be a bad idea to start. It is not a strickly enforced zoning code. is it not?

single mom or single dad with kids dating.

are we looking for somebody we may get along with for the long term?

or are we shopping for a model dad or supermom for the kids?

kids will leave us one day. the step parenthood and step children are a whole different ball game.

--

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1077/is_8_54/ai_54851883

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1077/is_9_58/ai_103565080

:D

[BM2]

Dude, I really don't know how to tell you this. It wasn't because you do CMA.:o
I have a soon to be ten year old son and a seven year old son. It is difficult to be a parent let alone not having your wife to help at home as you are doing. I have been married for 19 years.
Think back in not what the conversation was about but how you spoke and conveyed your thoughts. What were you trying to accomplish in your conversation? What ever it was, it turned them off. I feel that you really weren't talking about CMA but were in someway trying to impress them about doing CMA.

[Royal Dragon]

neilhytholt,
I understand your lack of desire to be romantically involved. it happenes. Whenever I go through a break up, I go through that phase for 4-6 months or so, but in the end, I eventually go back on Match and end up swamped by more women than i can handle. Your time frame may be longer than mine, but eventually, you will meet someone you will get caught up in.

Now, as for the fact that women ruin men's lives, I have a simple answer, a numbered, off shore bank account in the Caymen islands. Sock away most of your cash there, live like you only make $30,000, and when you find the woman who loves you without knowing about your wealth, hold on to her.

Then, if it all falls apart someday, and you end up in divorce at least she won't get any of your real assests....because she won't know about them, and a domestic asset search won't discover an account held in another country.

[neilhytholt]

No. Bottom line is I'm busy with my kids, and honestly I think most women are shallow and boring.

Don't get me wrong. It's not like I don't have women friends and it's not like I don't talk to women.

I had a long talk this evening with the woman that asked me out for lunch. Turns out her friends have been bugging her for a long time to hook up with some guy.

We both decided that we're wrong for each other, and that is that. She wants the material trappings of success. She wants some guy to be her 'partner', because she wants to buy some big house in O.C. She's already got it picked out, in fact, in Laguna Beach.

They decided I was wrong for her because obviously I'm not that interested in career. She said she already told them she didn't think so, so the martial arts thing was the nail in the coffin, so to speak. :)

So hopefully she'll find what she's looking for. But what she's looking for isn't me. :)

[neilhytholt]

You know, anyways I think I've been wrong about all of this women stuff.

I've been frankly kindof ticked off by the stuff that I've gone through and the stuff that I've had women do to me.

But after this woman, literally crying on my shoulder after a lot of drinks, I think that it's our society that's messed up. The stuff women have to go through. I mean, she really wants this stuff. She wants to find the perfect guy and have the perfect house, and she's got all this pressure to live up to her friends and her parents and what everybody expects of her.

It really sucks because I can't give her what she wants. Bottom line is, I'm not that guy she wants. It's not a priority to me to have that huge house and do all the stuff she wants to do. I'm not the guy with money and the Lamborghini and Ferrari who wants to buy a great big beach house.

But it's obviously very important to her, and it kindof sucks she can't find it since she wants it so bad.

So I really hope she can find it.

[neilhytholt]

Dude, I really don't know how to tell you this. It wasn't because you do CMA.:o
I have a soon to be ten year old son and a seven year old son. It is difficult to be a parent let alone not having your wife to help at home as you are doing. I have been married for 19 years.
Think back in not what the conversation was about but how you spoke and conveyed your thoughts. What were you trying to accomplish in your conversation? What ever it was, it turned them off. I feel that you really weren't talking about CMA but were in someway trying to impress them about doing CMA.

No, she was just looking for somebody to make her dream happen.

She's looking for somebody late 30s who wants to buy a big beach house with her in Laguna beach. Somebody who wants to give her a lot of attention and spend time with her and somehow make a lot of money at the same time so she can live this great lifestyle she dreams about.

It seems like she's been fed a load of nonsense but she totally wants it, and she's totally distraught about it. Believe it or not but she totally broke down and even cried on my shoulder.

It kindof sucks. I hope she can find the guy who will give her what wants.

[Mr Punch]

This whole thread is making me laugh so hard it's become an ab workout.

Neil, apart from quite possibly being a d0rk, saying ****ing classic things like 'I'm not a misogynist... women in this country just aren't trained right', making the mistake of not saying about your skills with the bo staff, and all the general nonsense about what women want, your main problem is that you were eating out with women who are considering taking up golf. FFS. GOLF!

Golfers are as close as a human can come to being non-human.

[Mr Punch]

LOL at RD and the doll chick. OMFG, you don't half choose em mate! :D

[Royal Dragon]

LOL at RD and the doll chick. OMFG, you don't half choose em mate!

Reply]
I'm tell'n you man, it was so bizzar!! I had been talking on the phone with her the nite before, and her Daughter (Vanilla) kept interupting, and making mischeif and such. She got sent to her room untill she could calm down. Imagine my total shock when I realised it was the GIRL doing voices, and pretending the doll was a real Child!.

Guys, at dinner, I had to converse with the stupid DOLL persona just as much as the girl herself!

In the previous conversation she had been telling me she collected exotic dolls, and at first I though that was cool. We talked bout various intrests that we had in common etc... She was also telling me she rarely wears pants at home, Shaves smooth daily (And I ain't talking legs here boys!!)and never wears underwear, so i was thinking a good thing was brewing....untill the doll spoke!! :eek:

Her profile is on Match.com. I'm half tempted to post it.

[neilhytholt]

Umm, RD, I didn't want to say this, but you never met a woman who was interested in dolls?

Never heard of Ty Beanie Babies? They're like more popular than golf.

Golf is like the most popular sport in the U.S. (Next to hunting).

Anyways last time I go to visit my parents and my stay at home sister (now in her late 20s), they had a bunch of Beanie babies. So I'm playing with the beanie babies, throwing them around and stuff and they get totally mad at me.

They start doing voices for the babies, saying the babies are their 'kids' and all this stuff. Getting really mad at me for messing with their 'kids'. They've got them all named.

My ex was totally into Beanie Babies as is my daughter. She's always doing voices for Beanie babies.

[neilhytholt]

This whole thread is making me laugh so hard it's become an ab workout.

Neil, apart from quite possibly being a d0rk, saying ****ing classic things like 'I'm not a misogynist... women in this country just aren't trained right', making the mistake of not saying about your skills with the bo staff, and all the general nonsense about what women want, your main problem is that you were eating out with women who are considering taking up golf. FFS. GOLF!

Golfers are as close as a human can come to being non-human.

And anyways, Bo staff is Japanese. CMA don't do Bo Staff. Bo Staff don't compare to a 9 foot dragon staff.

[neilhytholt]

Anyways that's something I never understood. How some woman can lie, mess with you, screw with your life, almost land you in jail with her lies in an extremely messy divorce ...

Yet play with these little beanie babies and make up voices for them like she's a little girl.

???????????

[Royal Dragon]

Because they are all WACK JOBS!!! that is why. not a single one of them is remotely sane! Not even the good ones! (not that i'm normal mind you but....)

As for the Doll girl, she didn't just collect dolls, she has an "Alter Ego" that manifests itself in her favorite collector doll. This "Alter ego" came on our date, without the doll, and i was expected to relate to it as if it was a real person.

This one was way, way, way out there, and was far beyond the normal mentally wacked female.

[us0kch]

Because they are all WACK JOBS!!! that is why. not a single one of them is remotely sane! Not even the good ones! (not that i'm normal mind you but....)

As for the Doll girl, she didn't just collect dolls, she has an "Alter Ego" that manifests itself in her favorite collector doll. This "Alter ego" came on our date, without the doll, and i was expected to relate to it as if it was a real person.

This one was way, way, way out there, and was far beyond the normal mentally wacked female.

almost sounds like something from an alfred hitch**** movie, especially the talking doll part! lol

[Royal Dragon]

I almost want to meet with her agian, just to study the dynamics of the doll, and how they interact.

[The Willow Sword]

These "career" women have mentalities that only go so far. Yes i use this term all the freakin time " A MILE WIDE AND AN INCH DEEP".

What they wanted to hear from you was that superficial "yeah im raising my kids and.......making investments in the market and looking at how i can increase my stock so that i can...blah blah blah blah blah".

But no you had to go and fuk the whole trip and miss out on an awesome foursome and say some deep and intelligent sh!t like " im raising my kids and spending time training and teaching martial arts".

Its not that they thought that was stupid, they just couldnt relate because all they seem to be interested in is a sugar daddy to further their credit card debt.

im sorry to be so harsh here and im sure those women are nice women and such. but if they were there to "look you over" then i would have just played the game and then dropped the " i do kung fu" bomb and then saw where it went from there.

Peace, TWS

[Water Dragon]

Bullsh*t TWS.

Neil's problem, like a lot of people on here, is that he's refusing to take control. That's why I think these women are losing interest so fast.

WTF is this sh*t about not caring about your career? You're a Father Bro. You have a responsibility to provide, to get out there and bust your @ss everyday and come home beat. That's what a man does, that's where his fulfillment comes from.

And why are you giving control over to these women. You're all upset because they lost interest on you. You're looking at it the wrong way. Why should you be interested in them? What are they bringing to the table besides looks. If women aren't interested in you, look to your personal life to see where you're messing up and fix it.

Here's the deal Bro. You're the man here. It is your responsibility to take control of your life and hold down the fort. That's what a woman respects. It's not the money in your wallet, your house, any of that. It's how you come at life. And remember, a man should never need a woman.

[Water Dragon]

And before you go whining about how you're 'different'

I'm a single father of two boys, a professional, I train, I coach, and I have an active social life. Don't say it can't be done.

Sorry to sound harsh, but you need someone to tell you.

[neilhytholt]

Bullsh*t TWS.

Neil's problem, like a lot of people on here, is that he's refusing to take control. That's why I think these women are losing interest so fast.

WTF is this sh*t about not caring about your career? You're a Father Bro. You have a responsibility to provide, to get out there and bust your @ss everyday and come home beat. That's what a man does, that's where his fulfillment comes from.

And why are you giving control over to these women. You're all upset because they lost interest on you. You're looking at it the wrong way. Why should you be interested in them? What are they bringing to the table besides looks. If women aren't interested in you, look to your personal life to see where you're messing up and fix it.

Here's the deal Bro. You're the man here. It is your responsibility to take control of your life and hold down the fort. That's what a woman respects. It's not the money in your wallet, your house, any of that. It's how you come at life. And remember, a man should never need a woman.

I'm not upset these women lost interest, I just wanted to study them. I go out for drinks or lunch now to study women further, not because I want to sleep with them or want to marry them. Been there, done that. All you get is somebody who likes to spend money.

As for the career thing, I'm sorry if I'm not that interested, but the career thing is pretty basic. Put in more hours, get ahead in the corporate ladder.

I'm not going to put in 60-70 hours a week. I have kids.

[neilhytholt]

And before you go whining about how you're 'different'

I'm a single father of two boys, a professional, I train, I coach, and I have an active social life. Don't say it can't be done.

Sorry to sound harsh, but you need someone to tell you.

You're kindof funny. You really think I want to 'take control' and get some woman? LOL

You seem to think I want a woman or a lot of money or something. What a joke.

I think you need to meet some of these women if you want them so much. There's tons of women just like these who would love to meet somebody like you who wants to take control and buy a big house and stuff.

Go for it, dude. LOL

You know, guys like you are kindof funny. There are tons of them around with these old women and I really don't understand it.

Dude, I put in my time with women. I have 2 kids. I don't need to waste anymore time. You want that, knock yourself out. But don't think everybody wants the same thing you want.

[Water Dragon]

I'm not talking about taking control of some woman. I'm talking about taking control of your life.

[jethro]

I haven't read through a 10th of this yet but let me ask this : do you people think this guy is gonna change? Girls are needy, guys haev to put up with it most of the time so we can get through life together. Geesh.

[neilhytholt]

I'm not talking about taking control of some woman. I'm talking about taking control of your life.

??? What the heck is that supposed to mean. 'Taking control of your life' ... please elaborate.

[neilhytholt]

I haven't read through a 10th of this yet but let me ask this : do you people think this guy is gonna change? Girls are needy, guys haev to put up with it most of the time so we can get through life together. Geesh.

I have a needy girl at home. In fact, I just got through giving her a kung-fu lesson, and now she's eating a Yogurt pop and tearing after my son causing some mayhem and ruckus in the living room.

I don't need another one. One is enough for me.

Edit ...

You know, I've been keeping a list. A list of minus things. Minus 100 per month for wife's Pilates lessons. Minus 75 per month for wife's Starbucks habit. Minus 200 per month for wife's health insurance. Minus 150 per month for wife's car insurance. Minus 350 per month for wife's car payments. Minus 250 per month for wife's clothes.

At this rate I'm going to have my kids college paid for in about 10 years.

[Royal Dragon]

WD,
You are right about taking controll of your life.

As for neilhytholt,
You are right about how shallow women are in modern times, HOWEVER, if you play thier game for enough time to get them emotionally hooked, all that will go out the window if you give them a few hours of hard F#@k'n 4-5 times a week.

I think your problem is you got really burned, and are now Gun Shy. Women are all in fantasy lands, so all you really need to do is make them think thier fantasy is being fullflled, and it's all good...which of course is my problem, i can't seem to do that being a realist and all....:(

seriously, what you need is to go out and spend some time getting to know some new women. You will find each is different and unique. Finding a good match is really a numbers game. The trick is to not get too attached untill you find a good one. unless you don't care, if not i got one who has Dolls that talk to her, and never wears undies.

[jethro]

I don't like the word wife, hopefully when I am old one will take care of me though:D

[Royal Dragon]

neilhytholt
Why would you pay for all of her expenses? hell, let Mrs. successful pay her OWN way!

[Royal Dragon]

Jethro,
*IF* I could find the right one, I would love to get married again. It's finding one who will put up with me that is the problem!!

[jethro]

that is one big problem for most of us!

[Royal Dragon]

Yeah, modern women don't seem to have the paitence for long term relationships anymore.

[neilhytholt]

neilhytholt
Why would you pay for all of her expenses? hell, let Mrs. successful pay her OWN way!

Mrs. Successful doesn't seem to want me, that's the bottom line.

Anyways, I'm tired of it, and I'm tired of the entire hook Neil up thing. I get it from everybody.

Can't everybody just LEAVE IT ALONE??? Everybody seems to want everybody else to suffer like they are suffering.

Truth is, if I did find some woman who was nice, patient, kind, and had her own money, I wouldn't burden her with me. She deserves some poor sap who will worship her.

[BM2]

After reading this thread, I truly see how lucky I am for being married to my wife.
I called my wife to eat at the Chinese resturaunt that I took The Willow Sword to last year.
There was a group of us from bjj class and we were going there to eat and I knew she was nearby. When she was walking through the resturaunt I said "There's my wife." One guy blurts out "That's YOUR wife?" And they all started stating what age she looks like. She does look much younger than what she is. I have teased her that she tells everyone that she was a child bride.
One of the guys in class is a millionare who just went through a divorce. I said something about him having all that money when I was in class. One guy said "Yeah but you have a hot wife and he doesn't."
Well money doesn't make you happy;)

[dainos]

Mrs. Successful doesn't seem to want me, that's the bottom line.

Anyways, I'm tired of it, and I'm tired of the entire hook Neil up thing. I get it from everybody.

Can't everybody just LEAVE IT ALONE??? Everybody seems to want everybody else to suffer like they are suffering.

Truth is, if I did find some woman who was nice, patient, kind, and had her own money, I wouldn't burden her with me. She deserves some poor sap who will worship her.

its just the people who talk about it. thats what they are doing they arent reasoning with their mind.
woohooo good job on saving 1125 bucks a month. you can do soo much stuff now and. you will pay off house sooner and have a good savings with the collage. good job man. im really proud:D

[us0kch]

The trick is to not get too attached untill you find a good one. unless you don't care, if not i got one who has Dolls that talk to her, and never wears undies.

hmmm............the never wears undies sounds tempting.......:D

[Royal Dragon]

Yup, she is a nice girl from what I can tell. Her alter Ego "Vanilla" is an annoying brat though, but if you can put up with her....she also shaves it smooth!

Edit to show pics of the Doll chick.

[us0kch]

Yup, she is a nice girl from what I can tell. Her alter Ego "Vanilla" is an annoying brat though, but if you can put up with her....she also shaves it smooth!

Edit to show pics of the Doll chick.

LOL my main concern, probably much like urs would be if she's really a "she-demon" and can either 1) rip ur heart out of ur chest like in mortal kombat, 2) transfer ur soul into one of her dolls where u'll be trapped for eternity, or 3) sacrafice and then cannabilize u for her and her dolls to share. :eek:


in all cases, all the kung fu and MMA in the world isn't gonna save u from that!

she is pretty good loooking tho. ;)

[CaptinPickAxe]

I highly doubt they left because your did martial arts. Most of the girls I've met love the martial arts thing because:
A. If your dedicated to your training, you have a martial artist's body. Chicks love the even build.
B. If your dedicated to your training, they know you can protect them well enough at least so they can run and be safe.

I think chances are your shovinistic nature came through. You have a very twisted view about women, my friend. They are people, not slaves, waiters, or crutches for you to lean on. You not getting women because you fail to seem them as equals and can't respect a woman who isn't subservient. Pesonally, I want an independant woman because I don't want someone who can care for themselves first. I want them to WANT me not NEED me. Being too needy is a huge turn off for both sexes. Maybe your needs in the way of women are just too much...

[Royal Dragon]

I am most concerned with getting my soul trapped in one of her dolls. :eek:

[Fu-Pow]

Neil-

I think its pretty obvious that these girls thought that practicing martial arts was lame, that you should being doing something more "adult." As somebody already mentioned, the fact that these chicks were considering taking up golf to meet men says a lot. Mostly wealthy professional type of guys play golf. They're 30-yrs old looking for the cash cow that's they can mooch off for the next 20yrs while they stay at home and take care of the kids. Martial artists are usually unconventional, adventurous people to start with so you need to find an unconventional chick who appreciates it.

BTW, do you live in Seattle? I saw in another post that you were moving out this way. Just so you know Seattle is the worst place in the world to meet chicks. There are more available guys in this city than there are women and the women here are less than average attractiveness. That means that even a 5 thinks she's a 10 as evidenced by the plethora of desperate guys hitting on her. So you get not very hot chicks thinking they are hot and giving you attitude.

And the one's that are attractive?...well, you better be a lawyer or doctor or race car driver or something or you don't have a chance.



Supply and demand.

[Royal Dragon]

That means that even a 5 thinks she's a 10 as evidenced by the plethora of desperate guys hitting on her. So you get not very hot chicks thinking they are hot and giving you attitude.


Reply]
I'd be risking my soul for the Doll chick if I was there! Hey, I'd get nightly threesomes for sure!

[us0kch]

That means that even a 5 thinks she's a 10 as evidenced by the plethora of desperate guys hitting on her. So you get not very hot chicks thinking they are hot and giving you attitude.


Reply]
I'd be risking my soul for the Doll chick if I was there! Hey, I'd get nightly threesomes for sure!


3some's?? :confused: with u, her and the doll???

[Royal Dragon]

Hee, hee, hee her alter ego silly. It was a bit of sick humr. GDA would have gotten it. :p

[chud]

Holy mackerel RD! I just looked at those pictures and the doll chick is HOT!

[chud]

Now, as for the fact that women ruin men's lives, I have a simple answer, a numbered, off shore bank account in the Caymen islands. Sock away most of your cash there, live like you only make $30,000, and when you find the woman who loves you without knowing about your wealth, hold on to her.

Then, if it all falls apart someday, and you end up in divorce at least she won't get any of your real assests....because she won't know about them, and a domestic asset search won't discover an account held in another country.

My dad knows a doctor who went through a divorce, his wife hired a shark attorney and went after him for everthing he had. Only thing is, he was ahead of her. He had a safe deposit box somewhere full of gold coins - krugerrands - hidden away in some obscure bank. She was furious because she knew there was more out there somewhere that he was hiding and it drove her nuts that she couldn't find it. He played it cool too, he would only sell a coin occasionally when he needed to buy his daughter something; other than that, he just sat on it and kept quiet.
Now that's good kung fu...

[Royal Dragon]

No kidding! Her pic does not do her justice, she is hotter in person!! When we met, she was wearing this thin little sun dress, and you could see she wasn't ly'n about the no undies thing!

All the women I date are hot :D They all seem to be nutts too though....:(

I'm working on the next batch right now, so far I have 3 total hotties, and I have a date with one yet we have never even spoken on the phone! :p Another is I'm close to it with, and the third I suspect will end up being a friend.

[Royal Dragon]

chud,
Good for him! In today's day and age, when First marriges have liek 66% failur, Second marriges have a 50% failur, and third marrigages have a 25-30% faiure rate, a man has to hide the majority of his assets.

I trade Futures myself, it's a small account (by industry standards), but I am good, so I don't think it will stay small. if it looks like a marriage is in my future, I have a tradeing account out of the Caymen's, and placeing most of my trades from there, and only doing the little ones out of my account here. I don't even care about the tax issues, I just want to make sure that it's all locked in down there before she can legally take half of it. Once there is a marriage, it will be harder to hide any income, because she will see the tax returns, but since the money made on an account in the caymens is subject to THIER tax laws, I'd be paying any taxes on my money THERE, and not here, so she can't tarce it.

Also, I'm not a lwayer, but even if she finds it there, I don't think the US has juristiction over accounts held on forieng soil, so I don't think she could touch it even if she would know about it. (Hee, hee, hee!!) :D

Look up the Grand Caymen islands on the net, you can get all the contact info you need to set something up. even if you are amrried, I'd be socking extra cash away just in case.

Growing up in a Mob controlled town has it's advantages! :p

[neilhytholt]

Neil-

I think its pretty obvious that these girls thought that practicing martial arts was lame, that you should being doing something more "adult." As somebody already mentioned, the fact that these chicks were considering taking up golf to meet men says a lot. Mostly wealthy professional type of guys play golf. They're 30-yrs old looking for the cash cow that's they can mooch off for the next 20yrs while they stay at home and take care of the kids. Martial artists are usually unconventional, adventurous people to start with so you need to find an unconventional chick who appreciates it.

BTW, do you live in Seattle? I saw in another post that you were moving out this way. Just so you know Seattle is the worst place in the world to meet chicks. There are more available guys in this city than there are women and the women here are less than average attractiveness. That means that even a 5 thinks she's a 10 as evidenced by the plethora of desperate guys hitting on her. So you get not very hot chicks thinking they are hot and giving you attitude.

And the one's that are attractive?...well, you better be a lawyer or doctor or race car driver or something or you don't have a chance.



Supply and demand.

Yeah, I think you're 100% dead on with these women at lunch.

No, I never moved to Seattle. That place seems like a wasteland.

That's funny you should mention the lack of women thing, because I have a good woman friend who lives in Seattle and she always complains she and her girlfriends can't meet any good guys. Or at least guys who will commit. She's not bad looking even. Of course, she too thinks martial arts are stupid. LOL

Yeah, I've given up on chicks. Too much stress involved in trying to get chicks.

[Royal Dragon]

The cool thing about the Futures markets is that you can make money on both up, AND down markets.

Why is this important in the issues of marriage? Because, if you are already married, you can use the futures markets to legally launder your $$ out of the country!!

This is what you do (Learned for a Mob affiliated guy I know):

First you open two futures trading accounts, one here, and the other in another country of your choice (of course one with the most lienient tax laws).

Second, you mortgage your house so you have little equity left and place most of that money in the futures account here.

Now, every trade you make here, you make sure it's going to go AGAINST the market trend, so it is sure to be a looser. In your OFF SHORE account, you make the exact opposite trade, so it wins.

Since the trades are exact opposites, you have a one to one move (no chance of loosing, whatever is minus in one account, is plused in the other). This effectively transfers your wealth to the off shore account, and it legitimatly looks like you lost it on bad trades, so she just thinks you are stupid and does not know to even THINK about looking elsewhere for it! Not that she can find a tradeing account in ANOTHER COUNTRY!

You *Appear* to have gone flat, busted broke, the house is fully mortgaged, so there is nothing to fight over, and what would have been a long messy divorce is now over in 6 months and cost you $500.00 in attournies fees.

As soon as you are legally free of her, wire the $$ back to your self, and offer to buy the house from her so she does no loose it to foreclosure due to the fact her income alone is not enough to pay TWO mortgages, and you get the house, all the money, and she just gets whatever dumb guy it is she left you for!! :D

God, I love the Mob!! They have such cool ways of doing things!

[IronFist]

You can make money in down markets with stocks, too. It's called selling short.

Actually, I don't really know anything about Futures at all, but I should probably learn one of these days.

I am very interested in learning more about off-shore accounts. Cayman Islands, Switzerland, etc. Are they easy to set up? Where can I learn more? How are their tax laws different?

[Royal Dragon]

Go to the website and look around, they have a whole section on the subject.

A futures account can be opened Via internet now. You can mail a check to the broker, or wire the start up $$

[Royal Dragon]

How do you short a stock, when the market is in real time?

You can do it with futures becasue the deal does not settle up untill some time in the future. Forexample, if I sell Oct Sugar today, I have untill next October to buy it so I can fulfill my contract on the sale. During this time, I wait untill the market drops so I can buy under my sell price. It's backwards, but the lag time allowes me to buy lower than I sold, AFTER I sold it so long as i do so before October's settlement date.

In stocks, you don't have that lag time to let the price move down under where you sold it at, so how can you short it?

[neilhytholt]

Futures are like craps. It's a good way to lose a lot of money in a very short amount of time.

Since you're so highly leveraged, and since the contracts have a specified end date, it's not like a stock where the fluctuations don't kill you that much, and you can hold onto it for a few years.

(Unless of course, you buy some contract with a termination like 1-2 years in the future, in which case the liquidity of the market is terrible).

I wouldn't recommend anybody speculate because something like 99% of all speculators wind up losing money.

The worst thing that can happen to you if you start to speculate is you start winning at the beginning because then you're like a gambler just waiting for a big fall.


All that being said, doesn't it suck that the U.S. doesn't allow contracts for differences? (CFDs). Much better liquidity and 24 hours a day markets. No waiting for Globex to roll over, etc.

[neilhytholt]

How do you short a stock, when the market is in real time?

You can do it with futures becasue the deal does not settle up untill some time in the future. Forexample, if I sell Oct Sugar today, I have untill next October to buy it so I can fulfill my contract on the sale. During this time, I wait untill the market drops so I can buy under my sell price. It's backwards, but the lag time allowes me to buy lower than I sold, AFTER I sold it so long as i do so before October's settlement date.

In stocks, you don't have that lag time to let the price move down under where you sold it at, so how can you short it?

You short stocks by selling a stock short. Basically there's a bunch of shares sold in some account, and you borrow some to sell back at some point in the future.

[IronFist]

How do you short a stock, when the market is in real time?

You can do it with futures becasue the deal does not settle up untill some time in the future. Forexample, if I sell Oct Sugar today, I have untill next October to buy it so I can fulfill my contract on the sale. During this time, I wait untill the market drops so I can buy under my sell price. It's backwards, but the lag time allowes me to buy lower than I sold, AFTER I sold it so long as i do so before October's settlement date.

In stocks, you don't have that lag time to let the price move down under where you sold it at, so how can you short it?

If you think a stock is going to go down, you "borrow" shares for you to sell short. Say a stock is trading at $50, and you short it, and then the price drops to $45. You then buy back the shares you sold (called buying to cover) and keep the profit, which in this case was 10% or $5 per share.

Selling short is dangerous because there is no limit to the amount of money you can lose. If you shorted that same stock at $50, and the price rises to $400, you eventually have to buy it back (or your brokerage can force you to do it) and you would then owe $350 per share. At least if you have a long position on a stock, the most you can lose is what you paid for it. If you have a long position on a $50 stock, the worst thing that can happen is it drops to $0 and you lose what you paid for it. If you have a short position on a $50 stock, the worst thing that can happen is the price goes infinitely high and you owe the difference.

You also need to have a margin account to sell short, which requires signing a margin agreement with your brokerage. So anytime you short a stock, you have to pay interest on the funds you borrowed to short it while you have the position open. And if a dividend is paid while you have a short position, then you have to pay it.

[Water Dragon]

When you sell short, you are borrowing stock in the hopes it goes down. Say you buy 100 shares of Dell at 25. If it goes down to 20, you buy the 100 shares and deliver them. You pocket the $ 500 profit. Of course if Dell goes up to 30, you still have to deliver the shares so you'd be out $ 500. You can always buy calls to hedge against your loss when shorting shares too.

[IronFist]

^ Explain the "hedging" thing. It seems to me like you wouldn't make money either way then. Either one goes up and the other goes down, or vice versa. That seems counterproductive to me.

[neilhytholt]

Usually it's the other way around. You buy or sell the shares while writing a call or a put. Then you get to keep the call/put premium.

Edit ... I better say call or put premium, otherwise people are going to say I'm using a butterfly ... LOL

[Royal Dragon]

Hmm, so in essence you are creating a Pseudo Futures trade then?

Also, it is false that 99% lose in futures. If that was so, the markets would not exist. You have to understand, the comercial intrests are in it to lock sales, or buys in at a specific price range. They could care less where it goes after. When markets are moving down, comercials are often buying, so in "Theory" it appears that they are losing on thier trades. BUT, they are not speculators, and are more trying to make sure they can buy within a certian range so they have supplies to meet production quotas (or sell if that is the end they are on).

When it comes to speculating, I really do not believe there are that many losers. Unless you count the fact that ALL speculators lose from time to time.

Also, if 99% of futures traders lose, how is it a dumb block like me wins 70-80% of the time? don't tell me I have some sort of majic power, I just do what I learned at the courses I took at the Merc. and CBOT back in the mid 90's

Crap shoot? hardly. Go to school, learn the methods, do your homework, and you will find the markets TELL you what they are going to do more often than not.

[neilhytholt]

BTW, RD, you're in Chicagoland right and all but don't let those brokers talk you into speculating on futures.

They make their money off of commissions and volumes, so it's in their interest to get you to speculate.

That being said, there's a few strategies with futures that can lessen your losses over the long haul, so it's more like you're playing blackjack than Craps.

You probably already know this, but don't trade on emotion, always use stops, stay out of low-liquidity markets (basically stay out of anything but soon to expire E-Minis), never trust a word your broker tells you, and always put your stop in a place so you only lose 5% of your account at a time depending upon the contract you're trading.

If you don't follow these simple rules, you're in for a world of hurt.

[neilhytholt]

Hmm, so in essence you are creating a Pseudo Futures trade then?

Also, it is false that 99% lose in futures. If that was so, the markets would not exist. You have to understand, the comercial intrests are in it to lock sales, or buys in at a specific price range. They could care less where it goes after. When markets are moving down, comercials are often buying, so in "Theory" it appears that they are losing on thier trades. BUT, they are not speculators, and are more trying to make sure they can buy within a certian range so they have supplies to meet production quotas (or sell if that is the end they are on).

When it comes to speculating, I really do not believe there are that many losers. Unless you count the fact that ALL speculators lose from time to time.

Also, if 99% of futures traders lose, how is it a dumb block like me wins 70-80% of the time? don't tell me I have some sort of majic power, I just do what I learned at the courses I took at the Merc. and CBOT back in the mid 90's

Crap shoot? hardly. Go to school, learn the methods, do your homework, and you will find the markets TELL you what they are going to do more often than not.

If you're that good, then great, you don't need any advice. Maybe you can teach me how to trade, then. What courses did you take?

BTW markets exist to commercials can hedge. The market makers take up trades to provide liquidity and make their $$$ on commissions and differences in low-liquid markets. The lower liquid the market the greater a spread they take (doesn't show up in commission but shows up in the value you buy/sell at compared to the value you think it should be at).

Basically what I found is that all that analysis, which is basically based upon some rules, go flying out the window because when you're betting tens of thousands of dollars on real trades, the emotion factor enters into it and clouds traders judgement.

That being said, I was able to successfully make $$$ off of the Forex markets, by watching the money flows. But that's super-hard because you have to be up basically 24 hours a day, and IMHO it's too much work for the return.

But seriously, if you're right 70-80% of the time I'd be the first person to ask you how to do it.

[Royal Dragon]

I have been trading futures for quite some time now. I call my own shots, use my own methods, and only ask my broker for things like when I want to get an ideas of the fundementals.

Futures are remarkable predictable when you put the effort in to study them.

I basically trade breakouts of congestive patterns. I place my trade either in the closeing range the day of the break out, or I wait till morning to make sure it closed out of the congestion. I set and exit stop just before the next level of resistance/or support, and I place my stops loss the same way.


I am what you would call a swing trader, I only take short swings. I am in and out 1-3 days on most trades, sometimes I day trade, and I occasionally position trade if I feel a long term trend is in play (for exmple, on a breakout of a long tight channel).

[neilhytholt]

I have been trading futures for quite some time now. I call my own shots, use my own methods, and only ask my broker for things like when I want to get an ideas of the fundementals.

Futures are remarkable predictable when you put the effort in to study them.

I basically trade breakouts of congestive patterns. I place my trade either in the closeing range the day of the break out, or I wait till morning to make sure it closed out of the congestion. I set and exit stop just before the next level of resistance/or support, and I place my stops loss the same way.


I am what you would call a swing trader, I only take short swings. I am in and out 1-3 days on most trades, sometimes I day trade, and I occasionally position trade if I feel a long term trend is in play (for exmple, on a breakout of a long tight channel).

Yeah, I worked on those patterns because that's how Larry Williams made his $$$. Unfortunately that only works when the market's trading in one direction because when it's not the swing-back will kill you.

If you notice that the year he made his million for the year, which I think was 1987, there was a big run-up in the market and he was up like 4 million, and then lost like 2.5 million at the end of the year.

IMHO that's the reason these big speculators get into the course business because they can make consistent money that way. But they cannot make consistent money speculating. If they could make consistent money speculating then they would not be giving courses they would be retired.

[Royal Dragon]

I would not trade Forex, I like hard commodities, Corn, Hogs, Gold etc...

My system got me in and out of cattle reacnetly, only to see it shoot way up after. I had a feeling it might do that, but my system said get out, so i took a small profit, instead of the big one. It's OK though, because if it had gone the other way, i would have lost.

I have found it is better to take a lot of small slices, rather than go for the big trend. The little slices are more predictable. My profits are generally about 300.00 to maybe 800 a contract, and my losses are genrally 300.00-400.00, but most are UNDER 300.00

[Royal Dragon]

Yeah, I worked on those patterns because that's how Larry Williams made his $$$. Unfortunately that only works when the market's trading in one direction because when it's not the swing-back will kill you.


Reply]
That is why I take small slices out of the market rather than follow trends, and use my exit stops when I PLACE an order. I want to be out while it is still moving my way, rather than get emotional about it, watch it turn against me and sit there racking up the losses hoping against hope it will turn my way again, only to watch it hit my orginal stop loss with a $400.00 loss per contract, when I was up $800.00 three days prior.

I think Larry Williams used some sort of reversal system based on 1,2,3, or head and shoulder patterns. What his method dose not tell, is those patterns are NOT reversals to trends, they just mean the CURRENT trend is over. The market may drop down to the next level of support, and start a new up trend, or just meander sideways. infact most meander sideways after a break out from a pattern, or they just move too choppy to trade. HOWEVER, the initial break out generally followes the rules till the first level of support or resistance, so if you only go for that little slice, you get your percentage of good trades really high.

You don't make as much, and as we see with my reacent cattle trade, you miss big moves a lot, but I feel it is better to be right more often than not, rather than gamble on the trend that may, or maynot be there.

[neilhytholt]

I would not trade Forex, I like hard commodities, Corn, Hogs, Gold etc...

My system got me in and out of cattle reacnetly, only to see it shoot way up after. I had a feeling it might do that, but my system said get out, so i took a small profit, instead of the big one. It's OK though, because if it had gone the other way, i would have lost.

I have found it is better to take a lot of small slices, rather than go for the big trend. The little slices are more predictable. My profits are generally about 300.00 to maybe 800 a contract, and my losses are genrally 300.00-400.00, but most are UNDER 300.00

That's pretty good. Yeah, I traded hard commodities for a while but I didn't like the liquidity and executions I got from small account sizes (10,000) in the CBOT or CME. Basically I kept getting screwed on my executions so I quit that.

There was one other strategy I figured out on grains was pretty good, can't remember the exact formula, but it was some sort of volatility breakout system like it sounds like you're using. But the ROI was too low, like 10%-15% a year or something, to make it interesting for me. But I never bothered trading it because of the faulty executions.

IMHO those exchanges totally screw over little traders on hard commodities.

[neilhytholt]

Yeah, I worked on those patterns because that's how Larry Williams made his $$$. Unfortunately that only works when the market's trading in one direction because when it's not the swing-back will kill you.


Reply]
That is why I take small slices out of the market rather than follow trends, and use my exit stops when I PLACE an order. I want to be out while it is still moving my way, rather than get emotional about it, watch it turn against me and sit there racking up the losses hoping against hope it will turn my way again, only to watch it hit my orginal stop loss with a $400.00 loss per contract, when I was up $800.00 three days prior.

Yeah, that's good. Hope is a killer. I lost about 4000 to hope when I first started.

Edit ... anyways, it sounds like you did your homework, so should be interesting to see how it works out for you.

[Royal Dragon]

I lost 36,000.00.....in a few hours following Ken Rodgers methods.

I had made over 70,000 that summer, starting with 5,000, but I was not working, and taking it out to live off of, so when the loss hit, I was out of the game for a long, long time.

As for the little guy syndrom, I have not found that useing naked futures, but in Options oh yes! infact, I don't think I ever got a good option fill yet. I only trade them if I feel a long term trend is in play, and then it's way out of the money for $70-$100 tops. that way if it comes into the money, I make out, if not I didn't loose much and i don't cry.

[neilhytholt]

I lost 36,000.00.....in a few hours following Ken Rodgers methods.

I had made over 70,000 that summer, starting with 5,000, but I was not working, and taking it out to live off of, so when the loss hit, I was out of the game for a long, long time.

As for the little guy syndrom, I have not found that useing naked futures, but in Options oh yes! infact, I don't think I ever got a good option fill yet. I only trade them if I feel a long term trend is in play, and then it's way out of the money for $70-$100 tops. that way if it comes into the money, I make out, if not I didn't loose much and i don't cry.

Options are the worst!!! Really liquid markets like grains, cattle, etc., are good for nearby contract months. I had most of the trouble in softs, metals and far contact months.

Overall I think I'm about even in the futures market. But it wasn't due to good trading strategies.

Forex is a bit different. If you watch what happens with big money flows during the day, you can guess with some probability what will happen at night when the banks do their big exchanges. But it's a lot of work and you have to stay up basically 24 hours a day, so it's not really worth it.

Edit ... actually for people living in Britain or Europe, it would be a lot easier.

[IronFist]

So who can give me info about setting up off-shore accounts?

[neilhytholt]

The U.S. Department of Homeland Security, and Interpol and various agencies are carefully tracking the funds that go between countries because they are looking for terrorist funding. Not to mention the IRS requires you to state any funds you have in any account over $10,000 as long as you are a U.S. citizen.

So it's complicated. You probably better speak to a professional (good accountant) so they can set you up with the proper vehicle.

It would be a lot easier just not to marry the person you're planning on divorcing.

[Hard Fists]

This one was way, way, way out there, and was far beyond the normal mentally wacked female.

Yeah, but I bet she was a freak in the sack. I've dated a couple of pretty out there chicks and the bedwork just makes it bearable for a while.

[BruceSteveRoy]

wow, i cant believe this thread is still growing. I know i have come up with some insane solutions in the past. but hear me out on this one. i think what you should do is find an old, old lady with lots and lots of money. wine and dine her. romance her. get her to put you in her will. and when she croaks you are set. just tack a copy of the will to the head board so you can have a little motivation when you are knocking boots.

[Royal Dragon]

Hard Fists,
Yeah, I highly suspect that as well! She certianly talked like it. She had a sound to her voice at times, like she really needed it!

I'm pretty picky about who I sleep with. I have only been with 6 women my whole life, but she was tempting!

neilhytholt,
Yeah I have had problems wiht options in the Softs as well. It seems the problem is if you go out of the money, in a back month because you are trying to position trade.

I bought a 1300 put when Sugar broke out of a huge triangle recently. It made some $$ at first, but then had a minor correction. The underlying future didn't even pull back that far and my option lost all it's gains. Then as it returned to it's trend, the Futures dropped BELOW where it was when it was making profit, but the option barley moved. The market has since reversed, and my option is now worthlesss. I have till October, and the Weekly chart looks bleak, so I may get my money back, but at this point, I think it's gone.

The naked futures play worked as useual, but because I tried to use an option to position trade the larger trend, so I lost $250.00 on that. I should have just stuck to my normal game plan with this one.

[Water Dragon]

^ Explain the "hedging" thing. It seems to me like you wouldn't make money either way then. Either one goes up and the other goes down, or vice versa. That seems counterproductive to me.

Let's say I short 100 Dell at 25 and buy a call for 100 Dell @ 22 for $ 300. If the stop drops to 20, I pick it up for a $ 500 profit. I'm out $ 300 for my call (which gives me the right to buy at 22) and end up with a $ 200 profit.

[Water Dragon]

Usually it's the other way around. You buy or sell the shares while writing a call or a put. Then you get to keep the call/put premium.

Edit ... I better say call or put premium, otherwise people are going to say I'm using a butterfly ... LOL


You have it backward. When you buy, you pay a premium for the right to buy/sell. When you sell, you receive the premium and have an obligation to buy/sell.

[IronFist]

Let's say I short 100 Dell at 25 and buy a call for 100 Dell @ 22 for $ 300. If the stop drops to 20, I pick it up for a $ 500 profit. I'm out $ 300 for my call (which gives me the right to buy at 22) and end up with a $ 200 profit.

Puts and calls... I need to study up on options before I reply to you.

The only thing I know is stocks.

[neilhytholt]

You have it backward. When you buy, you pay a premium for the right to buy/sell. When you sell, you receive the premium and have an obligation to buy/sell.

Right. You have an obligation to buy/sell so you buy/sell the shares to hedge your option writing.

[neilhytholt]

Puts and calls... I need to study up on options before I reply to you.

The only thing I know is stocks.

Buy Hull ... one of the best books out there. Options are very complicated.

[SevenStar]

Just had lunch with a just turned 30 single woman-friend and a couple of her girlfriends ... evidently the women out there are getting desperate to find guys. She's got 3 single friends and they're going to start learning how to play golf next week so they can meet guys.

Conversation started leaning towards dating, etc, until I mentioned martial arts, upon which time "check", and that was that.

Is martial arts good women deterrent? Or are women out there just really picky. I'm not interested, but if I were looking for a woman it seems like it would be frustrating because they seem so picky these days.

I mean, 3 women complaining they can't find a guy but mention martial arts and they go running. ???


my experience has actually been the opposite. Once they find out I fight, they get really interested. Heck, the simple fact that I am a bouncer accounts for about 75% of the flirting that women do with me at the club.

[IronFist]

It's funny you mention that, Seven.

I hate chicks that are status driven (99% of all chicks). I want a girl who loves me for me, and not cuz I have a cool job, or I trade stocks, or I have an off-shore bank account (I mean in the future when I get one), or whatever. Because with girls like that, there is always going to be someone with a cooler job or whatever, so she'll probably just leave you when she finds him.

That's why if I had a lot of money (haha yeah right, I'm unemployed right now), I wouldn't even mention it until I knew the girl very very well. You can never be sure what girls are after.

edit - that's also why I make it a habit not to date girls that are attracted to cops or military guys. Most of them just like the power and/or status of said position, which in my opinion is superficial and shallow and therefore makes me unattracted to them.

[SPJ]

edit - that's also why I make it a habit not to date girls that are attracted to cops or military guys.

cops and people in the service do not make a lot of money.

they do put their lives at risk as part of the job.

the family has to worry if they get hurt or not showing up at dinner table or not coming home.


:D

[neilhytholt]

my experience has actually been the opposite. Once they find out I fight, they get really interested. Heck, the simple fact that I am a bouncer accounts for about 75% of the flirting that women do with me at the club.

Maybe because I don't look like a fighter, LOL

[neilhytholt]

LOL

So I found out from a buddy of mine that he slept with that chick that I went out with on Friday night on Saturday night.

I guess she just wanted to get laid. Too bad I didn't want to lay her. LOL

Edit ... anyways he told me that I'm just being stupid, that all these 30+ year old women who want to get married and some house supposedly are easy lays and he's 100% sure I would have gotten laid if I'd made a move when I went out with that chick on Friday night.

But anyways, he's incorrugible. Since he got divorced from his first wife, he sleeps around all the time. He says they're not interested in committment, and are only interested in using men, so he doesn't mind leading them on.

[Eddie]

my experience has actually been the opposite. Once they find out I fight, they get really interested. Heck, the simple fact that I am a bouncer accounts for about 75% of the flirting that women do with me at the club.

you should try work at alternitive clubs :rolleyes: . chicks loves the bouncer

[Royal Dragon]

WD,
Thank for the explanation on shorting stocks, and tryng to explain options.

Generally avoid options unless I am in a long term trade so i can weather the chopiness, or I am in something i want to limit my risk. even then, I trade them similar to the way I would trade a naked Future.

I have never studied them enough to really venture beyond this.

[Banjos_dad]

edit - that's also why I make it a habit not to date girls that are attracted to cops or military guys

lol
here in alb if a cop's wife gets into a car wreck it automatically becomes the other driver's fault regardless of what *actually* happened...

happy 4th

[Jules]

You have to understand that after my divorce I don't see women as hot sex objects anymore, more like wolves in sheep's clothing who will if given the chance completely destroy your life without a thought.

In fact, after finding out how bad a lot of women like my ex are at cheating, and all the STDs out there, it's so bad that honestly I'm pretty much turned off to sex now.

I can't even think about kissing a woman without worrying that she's got mouth herpes or mouth papilloma virus.


Oh whiiiine, whiiiine, moooooan, oh PITY ME, I got HURTED by a GIRL! So now they are all EVIL and need to be re-trained to my liking!

You don't hate women: you want them, but you're afraid of them because you know you're a weak-minded idiot and they always catch on, so you blame it on their "training."

Everyone's been hurt and screwed over. You get over it, or you don't. If you don't, you live your life decently anyway, or you ***** about how the opposite sex isn't "trained" right.

Here's my advice to you: Kill yourself. Seriously, the world is half women, you know? You're going to run into the terrible creatures every day of your life and it's going to be torturous for you. I seem to remember that you've got daughters, too. You're messing up their minds with your "women need to be TRAINED BETTER" mentality, so seriously, kill yourself. You'll be doing everyone a favor.

~~Jules

[Royal Dragon]

You must be one of those women types he's complaining about....excellent job of proving his position there girl!! :rolleyes:

[MasterKiller]

Oh whiiiine, whiiiine, moooooan, oh PITY ME, I got HURTED by a GIRL! So now they are all EVIL and need to be re-trained to my liking!

You don't hate women: you want them, but you're afraid of them because you know you're a weak-minded idiot and they always catch on, so you blame it on their "training."

Everyone's been hurt and screwed over. You get over it, or you don't. If you don't, you live your life decently anyway, or you ***** about how the opposite sex isn't "trained" right.

Here's my advice to you: Kill yourself. Seriously, the world is half women, you know? You're going to run into the terrible creatures every day of your life and it's going to be torturous for you. I seem to remember that you've got daughters, too. You're messing up their minds with your "women need to be TRAINED BETTER" mentality, so seriously, kill yourself. You'll be doing everyone a favor.

~~Jules

I think I love you.

[Jules]

I think I love you.


"So what am I so afraid of?" (Sorry, bad 70s reference.)

:D

[neilhytholt]

Oh whiiiine, whiiiine, moooooan, oh PITY ME, I got HURTED by a GIRL! So now they are all EVIL and need to be re-trained to my liking!

You don't hate women: you want them, but you're afraid of them because you know you're a weak-minded idiot and they always catch on, so you blame it on their "training."

Everyone's been hurt and screwed over. You get over it, or you don't. If you don't, you live your life decently anyway, or you ***** about how the opposite sex isn't "trained" right.

Here's my advice to you: Kill yourself. Seriously, the world is half women, you know? You're going to run into the terrible creatures every day of your life and it's going to be torturous for you. I seem to remember that you've got daughters, too. You're messing up their minds with your "women need to be TRAINED BETTER" mentality, so seriously, kill yourself. You'll be doing everyone a favor.

~~Jules


Oh, that's so very nice. Yes, you remind me a lot of my ex. Yes, I think women do need to be trained better and yes I will train my daughter better.

And I hope she doesn't wind up being like you and my ex, because she's going to be lethal.

[Jules]

Oh, that's so very nice. Yes, you remind me a lot of my ex.


Good, because any woman who would take up with you and actually stay with you was not on line when "shreds of sanity" were handed out.



Yes, I think women do need to be trained better and yes I will train my daughter better.


I also hope you're willing to pay for her years of therapy. Though in all likelihood, she will want nothing to do with you when she gets into the real world and finds out how badly you messed her up with your hatred and fear of anything female.

~~J

[neilhytholt]

Good, because any woman who would take up with you and actually stay with you was not on line when "shreds of sanity" were handed out.



I also hope you're willing to pay for her years of therapy. Though in all likelihood, she will want nothing to do with you when she gets into the real world and finds out how badly you messed her up with your hatred and fear of anything female.

~~J

Once again, you are twisting the argument ... that's okay. Fallacious reasoning and emotion vs. logic are what society seems to be about these days.

My wife was the one at fault, as both the families involved and the courts were in agreement with. It's too bad she did the things she did (lying, cheating, drugs, negligence in caring for the kids), but to blame it on me is wrong.

To blame me for being bad just because I don't want a relationship is equally wrong.

My daughter seems to be doing remarkably well considering all that's happened to her with her mother. I think that is because of all the support she gets from her aunts and grandparents. We all hope that her mother is going to be better someday. The ex had to go through a lot of court-ordered counseling and perhaps someday will be in a better place.

But to blame me just because I don't want to be in a relationship is kindof wrong, IMHO. Kindof like blaming somebody who is raped who doesn't want to sleep with men for a while, or somebody with PTSD who has nightmares and flashback.

In fact, I coined a term for it, Post Traumatic Divorce Syndrome. (PTDS). LOL

You know, you seem to have a lot of anger. You might want to do something about that.

[chud]

Good, because any woman who would take up with you and actually stay with you was not on line when "shreds of sanity" were handed out.



I also hope you're willing to pay for her years of therapy. Though in all likelihood, she will want nothing to do with you when she gets into the real world and finds out how badly you messed her up with your hatred and fear of anything female.

~~J

Don't start spoiling our fun Jules! This is the dedicated misogyny thread! :D
Seriously though, you do kung fu so you've gotta be cool...why not give Neil a break? He's been through a tough patch, that's all...everyone needs an opportunity to vent once in a while. :)

[Jules]

Don't start spoiling our fun Jules! This is the dedicated misogyny thread! :D
Seriously though, you do kung fu so you've gotta be cool...why not give Neil a break? He's been through a tough patch, that's all...everyone needs an opportunity to vent once in a while. :)

Everyone goes through a bad patch, but only a select few turn into misogynistic or man-hating retards. Neil here doesn't get the difference between "not wanting to be in a relationship" (which is fine, because I don't want to be in a relationship, either) and full-on hating and fearing women, and wanting to "train" them to please men.

No, Neil doesn't get a "break". His attitudes are harmful, mostly to his daughter, but also to anyone who is weak-minded enough to hear him out.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled woman-fearing circle-jerk.

~~Jules

[neilhytholt]

Good, because any woman who would take up with you and actually stay with you was not on line when "shreds of sanity" were handed out.



I also hope you're willing to pay for her years of therapy. Though in all likelihood, she will want nothing to do with you when she gets into the real world and finds out how badly you messed her up with your hatred and fear of anything female.

~~J

Oh, and BTW Jules, the training I'm talking about is KUNG FU training. She can make up her own mind about life. She already corrects me 1/2 the time I say something. LOL

[neilhytholt]

Everyone goes through a bad patch, but only a select few turn into misogynistic or man-hating retards. Neil here doesn't get the difference between "not wanting to be in a relationship" (which is fine, because I don't want to be in a relationship, either) and full-on hating and fearing women, and wanting to "train" them to please men.

No, Neil doesn't get a "break". His attitudes are harmful, mostly to his daughter, but also to anyone who is weak-minded enough to hear him out.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled woman-fearing circle-jerk.

~~Jules

You know, for a supposed peace loving activist, mahalo, all that stuff, you seem to have a lot of anger. I run into far too many women like you, which is the main reason I don't get hooked up. Oh, where are the nice women??? How do you find them???

[Jules]

You know, for a supposed peace loving activist, mahalo, all that stuff, you seem to have a lot of anger. I run into far too many women like you, which is the main reason I don't get hooked up. Oh, where are the nice women??? How do you find them???


You never will, because you will keep on ****ing women off with your mindless, rage-filled spew. Please go die now, KTXBAI.

~~Jules

[neilhytholt]

You never will, because you will keep on ****ing women off with your mindless, rage-filled spew. Please go die now, KTXBAI.

~~Jules

Wow, you really are an angry, angry person. You remind me so much of my ex it's not even funny.

You might want to seek out counseling now, before you do something really bad and it is court ordered. Also, there are some medications that can help with your condition you might want to consider.


You know, my daughter really likes Yogurt pops. When she comes home and is all sad because somebody's said something mean to her or something, usually we watch 'Totally Spies' and she has a Yogurt pop.

Maybe you can watch 'Totally Spies' and get some Yogurt pops.

What used to work for my ex was going to the spa and getting a massage and facial. Of course, she wound up hooking up with some massage guy from the spa, but I guess if you're single that would be okay, right?

At any rate, I'm sorry if I said something to offend you, and I won't post any of that stuff on here anymore.

[Royal Dragon]

neilhytholt,
I'm sure she i*IS* single!!

And to second the training thing, I am all for women getting better training!

I think gettinng a masters in massage, and delightful plesentries is a must! I think they would be much happier learning to share love and enjoyment rather than the coping the "better then men attitude" with excesive expectations to boot, and wondering why we prefer strippers to relationships.

[chud]

Maybe you can watch 'Totally Spies' and get some Yogurt pops.



Good advice, yogurt is healthy too. Let's all chill out and have a yogurt pop now! :D

[Scott R. Brown]

We now return you to your regularly scheduled woman-fearing circle-jerk.

Hi Jules,

You were making some nice points before this comment!

You have just lowered yourself!! :(

Try not to let the whiners get to you. Everyone has a right to complain, and you don't have to read or participate if you feel insulted enough to step into the gutter.

(Just for information purposes, I have laid into neil quite a few times, so I am not picking on you alone!)

[neilhytholt]

I'm not meaning by 'training' like massage training, although that probably wouldn't hurt. I just mean, that from what I've seen of a lot of other cultures, they seem to be more accepting of life and aren't always fighting with each other. They (both men and women) seem to treat each other okay.

Anyways, yeah, Yogurt Pops and Beanie babies. I give them yogurt pops because at least they have some nutrition in them as opposed to Popsicles and aren't totally fatty like ice cream.

Beanie babies are reserved for special occasions when something goes really wrong (like having to see mom in court). Usually we have to go shopping then, too.

[neilhytholt]

Hi Jules,

You were making some nice points before this comment!

You have just lowered yourself!! :(

Try not to let the whiners get to you. Everyone has a right to complain, and you don't have to read or participate if you feel insulted enough to step into the gutter.

(Just for information purposes, I have laid into neil quite a few times, so I am not picking on you alone!)

Yeah, it's one thing to get on somebody's case, and it's quite another to tell them to go kill themselves.

I'd be insulted but I've been there before. If somebody tells you that you should go kill yourself, then they've got some serious issues themself that they need to work out.

They've got to ask themselves why they're so emotionally involved? What's going on that they feel the need to make comments like that?

[Royal Dragon]

Yeah, the go kill urself comment was beyond over the top. Women like that make men go celebit, or gay.

[neilhytholt]

Yeah, the go kill urself comment was beyond over the top. Women like that make men go celebit, or gay.

Basically what I've found, is that American (and it's spreading to other countries) women these days want it all.

They want their freedom, which they've been given, but at the same time they want some guy to be their partner and help support them at best, or at worst totally munge off of them.

There are a few truly independent women, but they are few.

They want their freedom, but at the same time they want the men to treat them like princesses and ladies.


What's starting to happen, is guys are starting to wise up, and go, "Okay, fine, you're free. Be free. I don't really want to marry you. I'll sleep with you, but that's as far as it goes."

That makes the women mad, but they aren't that mad, because they still get attention from the guys. Just not a commitment.

BUT NOTHING ... NOTHING ... nothing at all seems to make women madder than men who don't want anything to do with a woman in their lives.

Who don't want to commit, or give them attention, or have anything to do with them.

I have no idea why -- if they are free, then what do they care?

[Royal Dragon]

Because they are not free, They are trapped by thier fantasies.

[Water Dragon]

You're messing up their minds with your "women need to be TRAINED BETTER" mentality, so seriously, kill yourself. You'll be doing everyone a favor.

~~Jules

Nah, women do need to be trained better. But then again, no one's out there training boys to be men anymore, and that's where the real problems start. Heck, just take a look at society.

[Jules]

Yeah, it's one thing to get on somebody's case, and it's quite another to tell them to go kill themselves.

I'd be insulted but I've been there before. If somebody tells you that you should go kill yourself, then they've got some serious issues themself that they need to work out.

They've got to ask themselves why they're so emotionally involved? What's going on that they feel the need to make comments like that?


Why am I so emotionally involved? Because your hateful attitude rightly disgusts me. People who are this hateful and destructive are just wasting space and oxygen. I find your hatred and fear of women over the top, too. I try to be zen and aloha and all of that, but everyone has hot buttons, and abuse of women (even abusive language and attitudes) is one of my hot buttons. I make no apologies for that. You hate and fear women (because you want them but can't control them, and they seem to understand this about you,) so you say destructive things. When I said you were "training" your daughter, I meant what I said. Whether you tell her these things or not, you are putting your hate into her and it's going to mess her up badly. Kids can sense these things even if they're never said--although I'm sure you are poisoning her with your words, too. I can't imagine that you're not.

I love how you said "I'm sorry if I offended you and I won't write those things anymore" and then just couldn't control yourself and repeated your sad, sorry "WAAHHH women are evil and not brought up to please me!" thing, as I expected.

There's a song that makes me think of you, Neil, by a great band called "Consolidated. You can even download it:

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=55B74E9B2D988EA2

But it will probably scare you, because you will hear yourself all over it.

And I stand by what I said: this IS a circle jerk. There are clearly a lot of men here who don't want women in "their" sport and totally resent that we are doing Kung Fu, so a few of you go around patting each other's backs over your comments on how "99% of all women" are this or that and such and such. Oh well, sucks for you, I guess, because we're not quitting.

~~Jules

[neilhytholt]

Nah, women do need to be trained better. But then again, no one's out there training boys to be men anymore, and that's where the real problems start. Heck, just take a look at society.

Yeah, I dunno ... I just got through a big argument with guys at work about why the real estate market will keep going up 20% per year and never drop.

I tried to explain to them the lack of water in the Southwest, and how areas like Phoenix will suffer with global warming, the state of the Colorado river, etc., and why that puts a limit on development.

They said that they'll just pump in water from the pacific and desalinate, so the housing market in those areas will continue to rise 20% per year.

I brought this up, because Cheney is putting a ton of his money into Euro bonds and the rest into funds that are inflation safe and interest rate safe. So it looks like even he realizes that we could have higher interest rates + more inflation, and the U.S. economy could tank, which is why he's got 1/2 of his money in a Euro fund and the rest hedged against problems.

They said I was 'totally out there' and one of them is buying another investment property this month.

Basically they just laughed in my face.

Oh, well. I think I shouldn't be talking to people anymore, because it's obvious that most people run their lives with emotion rather than logic.

[neilhytholt]

And I stand by what I said: this IS a circle jerk. There are clearly a lot of men here who don't want women in "their" sport and totally resent that we are doing Kung Fu, so a few of you go around patting each other's backs over your comments on how "99% of all women" are this or that and such and such. Oh well, sucks for you, I guess, because we're not quitting.

~~Jules

Jules, you are so wrong it's not even funny. But that's okay. We don't love you anyway. :)

Edit:

I mean, I never ever minded women in class. For one thing, sweaty guys get kindof old to look at, and working out with women sometimes gives you a break from getting pounded on by guys.

Plus, you have to think, if the technique doesn't work for them, will it work for you if you're fighting somebody that's 2x your size? Probably not.

But, whatever. It's too bad you think we're all out to get you. Fact is, I don't want anything to do with you. I don't care if you take class or have a great career or whatever.

It makes no difference to me at all as long as I don't have to share a house or a bed with somebody like you. Which, BTW, I don't. :)

[Water Dragon]

Yeah, I dunno ... I just got through a big argument with guys at work about why the real estate market will keep going up 20% per year and never drop.

I tried to explain to them the lack of water in the Southwest, and how areas like Phoenix will suffer with global warming, the state of the Colorado river, etc., and why that puts a limit on development.

They said that they'll just pump in water from the pacific and desalinate, so the housing market in those areas will continue to rise 20% per year.

I brought this up, because Cheney is putting a ton of his money into Euro bonds and the rest into funds that are inflation safe and interest rate safe. So it looks like even he realizes that we could have higher interest rates + more inflation, and the U.S. economy could tank, which is why he's got 1/2 of his money in a Euro fund and the rest hedged against problems.

They said I was 'totally out there' and one of them is buying another investment property this month.

Basically they just laughed in my face.

Oh, well. I think I shouldn't be talking to people anymore, because it's obvious that most people run their lives with emotion rather than logic.

What in the world does that have to do with what I said?

But as to the housing market, it HAS been slowing down. That's one of the big fears right now. The housing market has been the big source of new jobs for the past 3 years, and now it's starting to slump.

Oh, and don't worry about rats. We're only at 5 1/4 and the worst estimates are calling for 6.25. If you'll remember, we had double digit rates for a while there back in the 1980's. It's called an economic cycle, and it's normal. Nothing has happened in the past ten years in the markets that haven't happened repeatedly over the past 100 years.

[Royal Dragon]

Nah, women do need to be trained better. But then again, no one's out there training boys to be men anymore, and that's where the real problems start. Heck, just take a look at society.

Reply]
You know, I think you are on to something here.

[Jules]

Jules, you are so wrong it's not even funny. But that's okay. We don't love you anyway. :)

Edit:

I mean, I never ever minded women in class.

I'm sure you don't; it's likely the only further contact with them you will ever have.

Way to dodge everything else. But hey, did I expect anything more from a coward? No, I didn't. Cool.

~~J

[neilhytholt]

What in the world does that have to do with what I said?

But as to the housing market, it HAS been slowing down. That's one of the big fears right now. The housing market has been the big source of new jobs for the past 3 years, and now it's starting to slump.

Oh, and don't worry about rats. We're only at 5 1/4 and the worst estimates are calling for 6.25. If you'll remember, we had double digit rates for a while there back in the 1980's. It's called an economic cycle, and it's normal. Nothing has happened in the past ten years in the markets that haven't happened repeatedly over the past 100 years.

You said: "Nah, women do need to be trained better. But then again, no one's out there training boys to be men anymore, and that's where the real problems start. Heck, just take a look at society."

I was commenting upon society. It seems like society is producing bigger and bigger idiots by the day. I'm not worrying about rate increases, just pointing out that this huge speculation boom in housing probably won't last forever.

In fact, some places like Phoenix and Las Vegas, things are pretty flat right now.

[neilhytholt]

I'm sure you don't; it's likely the only further contact with them you will ever have.

Way to dodge everything else. But hey, did I expect anything more from a coward? No, I didn't. Cool.

~~J

Honestly I'm just kindof tired of talking to you.

There's only so much emotional outburst a person can deal with before it's like, "Talk to the hand." Do I really care if you're right or wrong? Not really. I have to feed my babies Yogurt pops. :)

[Jules]

But I always see the positive, and one thing that this thread has done for me is to remind me of how thankful I am for the training brothers that I do have. They are just there for Kung Fu; they want more than anything to learn, and to teach people who are newer to it than they are. It doesn't matter to them what's between your legs; they are just there for Kung Fu. No attitudes, no hate, just love of martial arts and willingness to help their brothers and sisters. Things are done according to rank and skill, not gender. And because this is my first (and only) school of Kung Fu, I think that's why I'm so surprised to see that there is such hatred outside of it. A real eye-opener that has, after all, served to make me that much more appreciative of the MA people I know in real life. ^_^

~~Jules

[dainos]

But I always see the positive, and one thing that this thread has done for me is to remind me of how thankful I am for the training brothers that I do have. They are just there for Kung Fu; they want more than anything to learn, and to teach people who are newer to it than they are. It doesn't matter to them what's between your legs; they are just there for Kung Fu. No attitudes, no hate, just love of martial arts and willingness to help their brothers and sisters. Things are done according to rank and skill, not gender. And because this is my first (and only) school of Kung Fu, I think that's why I'm so surprised to see that there is such hatred outside of it. A real eye-opener that has, after all, served to make me that much more appreciative of the MA people I know in real life. ^_^

~~Jules

um thats the first sorta decent post you have said on this thread. be more open minded. the forum is for debate and arguement there is wisdom around here you just got to look for it. and try to be nicer to neil

[Jules]

and try to be nicer to neil

My policy is to treat people the way they treat me, and to exclude all ignorant and destructive people from any niceties. So in other words, no.

~~J

[Water Dragon]

Nah, women do need to be trained better. But then again, no one's out there training boys to be men anymore, and that's where the real problems start. Heck, just take a look at society.

Reply]
You know, I think you are on to something here.

Of course I am. At ten, my son knows more about what a man is and does than most people my age. The boy has integrety. How rare is that in this world?

[Water Dragon]

My policy is to treat people the way they treat me, and to exclude all ignorant and destructive people from any niceties. So in other words, no.

~~J

Still, there is no need to stoop to another person's level. It lowers your dignity. There's a middle ground that could be taken.

[neilhytholt]

My policy is to treat people the way they treat me, and to exclude all ignorant and destructive people from any niceties. So in other words, no.

~~J

At least you're up front about it. I spent plenty of time in New York and lots of time in East L.A. Not to mention going through a very messy divorce.

People can be up in my face yelling at me with drawn guns and I just kindof go, "Yawn."

Nothing compares to the person you married stabbing you in the back in divorce court.

Anyways, now I've got 2 very happy kids, just got through several rounds of Star Fox, and we made mango-tangerine yogurt pops that are freezing now and the kids can't wait until tomorrow when they get back from school and they're frozen.

Well, Jules, I hate to say that nothing you're saying is new to me. But at least you're up front and don't pretend to like people. That's more than I can say for my ex.

But I should point out that you shouldn't confuse b*tchy for strong. A lot of women make that mistake and thing b*tchy is strong. I have to say that I have a lot of respect on that other thread where the women pointed out what they do and how it works for them. They came off as strong. They didn't come off as b*tchy.

[Jules]

A

Well, Jules, I hate to say that nothing you're saying is new to me. But at least you're up front and don't pretend to like people. That's more than I can say for my ex.

But I should point out that you shouldn't confuse b*tchy for strong. A lot of women make that mistake and thing b*tchy is strong. I have to say that I have a lot of respect on that other thread where the women pointed out what they do and how it works for them. They came off as strong. They didn't come off as b*tchy.


You're one of those people who thinks that women who haven't been brought up to please you are *****es. Happy to say, I was brought up to please myself and treat others how they treat me, and to hell with people who are hateful and stupid. In your vocabulary, women who don't bow down to you, who make you feel that out of control fear, are *****es. That being the case, I'm glad to have that title from you.

~~J

[neilhytholt]

You're one of those people who thinks that women who haven't been brought up to please you are *****es. Happy to say, I was brought up to please myself and treat others how they treat me, and to hell with people who are hateful and stupid. In your vocabulary, women who don't bow down to you, who make you feel that out of control fear, are *****es. That being the case, I'm glad to have that title from you.

~~J

No, once again you're creating a straw-man argument. You know what I'm talking about. Those women stood up to me and didn't try to please me, but they also didn't go tell me to off myself.

Anyways, whatever.

[Scott R. Brown]

Why am I so emotionally involved? Because your hateful attitude rightly disgusts me. People who are this hateful and destructive are just wasting space and oxygen. I find your hatred and fear of women over the top, too. I try to be zen and aloha and all of that, but everyone has hot buttons, and abuse of women (even abusive language and attitudes) is one of my hot buttons. I make no apologies for that. You hate and fear women (because you want them but can't control them, and they seem to understand this about you,) so you say destructive things. When I said you were "training" your daughter, I meant what I said. Whether you tell her these things or not, you are putting your hate into her and it's going to mess her up badly. Kids can sense these things even if they're never said--although I'm sure you are poisoning her with your words, too. I can't imagine that you're not.

I love how you said "I'm sorry if I offended you and I won't write those things anymore" and then just couldn't control yourself and repeated your sad, sorry "WAAHHH women are evil and not brought up to please me!" thing, as I expected.

There's a song that makes me think of you, Neil, by a great band called "Consolidated. You can even download it:

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=55B74E9B2D988EA2

But it will probably scare you, because you will hear yourself all over it.

And I stand by what I said: this IS a circle jerk. There are clearly a lot of men here who don't want women in "their" sport and totally resent that we are doing Kung Fu, so a few of you go around patting each other's backs over your comments on how "99% of all women" are this or that and such and such. Oh well, sucks for you, I guess, because we're not quitting.

~~Jules


Hi Jules,

You are taking Neil’s comments too personally. If you would take a moment to think about someone else instead of your own feelings you would recognize that Neil has gone through a rather traumatic event. He is in pain and is working through his feelings by ventilating on a BB, that is all! Ventilating our feelings helps us re-organize our life. Ventilating feelings is something all women know about, but apparently, for you, this is only permissible for women! This is a bit self-centered don’t you think?

We all have a definition of ourselves, our lives, our relationships. Neil had a fixed idea of what his relationship was and this definition was shattered in a rather abrupt manner. This is traumatic, not just for Neil, but for anyone this happens too! Do you think women don’t have the same feelings about men when they have been lied too and cheated on?

What Neil is doing is therapeutic for him. Yes, he is a bit negative, but this is part of the resolution process. His life was in equilibrium and now it is in disequilibrium. When we are in disequilibrium we seek to regain our equilibrium. We do this by sorting out our feelings and reexamining our definitions and this takes time. Neil has found himself thrust back into the singles environment after some years of marriage. He is older and the rules of dating are different now. He doesn’t understand the rules and the women he meets do not fit his understanding of what he thought maturity was to bring to people. He finds himself a single father trying to raise a daughter while also trying to figure out the new rules.

While you are railing against Neil’s hateful attitude take a moment to observe your how it seems to have revealed your own hateful attitude. If you feel free to be critical of Neil’s attitude consider the hypocrisy of your own. Try being a bit supportive and compassionate here for someone in pain and confused about women. By talking about his feelings he is clearly attempting to sort things out. You, so far have only been a good bad example and seem to confirm his negative feelings about the attitudes of many women!

You have no idea whether Neil’s attitudes are rubbing off on his daughter or not. Perhaps you are projecting your own issues here. Have you considered that by ventilating his feelings online he may be better able to control them around his daughter? From what he has shared here he tries very hard to be sensitive to her feelings and be supportive. Men are able to separate their feelings from their actions. We don’t wear them on our sleeves for everyone to see 24/7!

While you see this as a circle jerk, I see this as a place for men to freely share their feelings. I know for a fact women get together and complain about men freely amongst themselves. Are you suggesting what is good for the goose is not as good for the gander?

You don’t need to apologize for your infantile comment. But take a moment to observe what this conversation has revealed about your own issues with men. I would not say they are much better than Neil’s for women. Just like his attitudes have a cause, so do yours. Just as Neil would benefit from working through his issues, so would you!

Consider how it would make you feel if a man came online and said to you, “Why don’t all you women all just go off and play with each others C**TS!!

If you feel free to be critical of others perhaps your own behavior should be above reproach first!!

[Jules]

"Venting" is one thing. We've all been through rough relationship experiences. Neil is afraid of and hates women, and thinks that they should be raised as pets for men. Uhh, no, not going to stand for that. There is no excuse for that kind of idiocy.

~~J

[Scott R. Brown]

You are most likely very wrong Jules!

In my opinion Neil as made it very clear that is NOT what he is doing, but he can speak for himself on that. It is more likely that Neil discussing his own issues is revealing your own deeper issues.

At any rate, you have reduced yourself to behaving in the exact manner you freely criticize, you just appear unwilling to admit it. It isn't important that you admit it here, but it would be beneficial for you to admit it to yourself.

[Royal Dragon]

I have had a though that Jules may know Neil in real life. Both Water Dragon and I have made comments about women needing beter training (WD went on to state boys as well, and offered his son as an example), but Jules has not even responded to either of us.

When Neil made similar comments, she twisted them all up, and distorted them to her view, and then attacked her own twisted version as if it was Neil's personal view, instead of her own creation. Why didn't she do the same to WD an I?

Jules, are you Neil's Ex by any chance? You seem to have such vile hatered for him to just be a stranger floating through our forum....

[Crushing Fist]

I just want to say...



Jules...






nice call

Consolidated

great band

how about "You Suck" with the Yeastie Girls :D

my personal fav of their's... CrackHouse

[chud]

I have had a though that Jules may know Neil in real life.

It would certainly explain why she's taken Neil's posts so personally, and why there is so much venom in her responses. I can understand if she disagrees with him, but some of her replies are way over the top (I hope you die, etc).

[neilhytholt]

Hmmmm ... I doubt she's the ex. But she reminds me so much of the ex it's kindof scary.

You know, Jules, I don't know what to say to you. Except this is the wrong forum for the types of comments you're making. Yahoo news forums are much more appropriate for that.

[@PLUGO]

. . . I don't know what to say to you. Except this is the wrong forum for the types of comments you're making . . .

Too much of what's posted on this thread applies to your statement regarding this being the wrong forum. I'm too nauseated to go into detail and just hope some of you seek out some council beyond internet rants.

[neilhytholt]

Too much of what's posted on this thread applies to your statement regarding this being the wrong forum. I'm too nauseated to go into detail and just hope some of you seek out some council beyond internet rants.

Let's face it ... ever watch that movie 'Anger Management'?

Beware the ones that sit back and keep their emotions in and never say anything, not the ones that get it out and then go back to dealing with the problems in their lives.

[SevenStar]

It's funny you mention that, Seven.

I hate chicks that are status driven (99% of all chicks). I want a girl who loves me for me, and not cuz I have a cool job, or I trade stocks, or I have an off-shore bank account (I mean in the future when I get one), or whatever. Because with girls like that, there is always going to be someone with a cooler job or whatever, so she'll probably just leave you when she finds him.

That's why if I had a lot of money (haha yeah right, I'm unemployed right now), I wouldn't even mention it until I knew the girl very very well. You can never be sure what girls are after.

edit - that's also why I make it a habit not to date girls that are attracted to cops or military guys. Most of them just like the power and/or status of said position, which in my opinion is superficial and shallow and therefore makes me unattracted to them.

I agree. I would never be serious with a woman that I thought was interested in status. Nevertheless, those things attract women. If I can say "I'm a thai boxer", or "I'm a bouncer" and get women, then the thought of knowing kung fu shouldn't chase them off either.

Now, that said, the actual training may be woman deterrent. I have women ask me all the time if I will train them. Then I have others who say "That's awesome that you do it, but I would just watch, cuz I only get sweaty for one thing, and kickboxing ain't it..."

[SevenStar]

the Yeastie Girls


Eeeew.... is that really the name of a band? I can understand them biting the beastie boys name, but the thought of "yeastie girls" makes me think of a room full of women with yeast infections...

[neilhytholt]

If I can say "I'm a thai boxer", or "I'm a bouncer" and get women, then the thought of knowing kung fu shouldn't chase them off either.


You get women by being a thai boxer or a bouncer? You guys are so lucky. I guess smacking poles in the backyard doesn't cut it.

Oh, well. You know, after spending some time on this forum and the entire women thing, I think I just need to retire to taking care of my kids, and training them, and leave the entire woman thing to others.

I think Jules is right that I wouldn't be right for any women or anything like that.

Besides, women just aren't really exciting as breaking bricks IMHO, or training my kids when they get a form, and they're running around the house doing drills with each other.

My dad said it best when he said, "The kids are the best part of the marriage." (Mom was a bit peeved about that one).

[SevenStar]

I think Jules is just very pro estrogen and anti testoserone. she was the one who threw off the reputations thread because I posted a quote by Jay-Z:

http://martial.best.vwh.net/forum/showthread.php?p=655100#post655100

[@PLUGO]

Let's face it ... ever watch that movie 'Anger Management'?

Beware the ones that sit back and keep their emotions in and never say anything, not the ones that get it out and then go back to dealing with the problems in their lives.

'Anger Management' is a farce. Nobody's going to tell you not to use an Adam Sandler character as a model for your internal narrative. If your repetitive posts are an indication of dealing with the problems in one's life then might I suggest Peter Seller's 'Being There'

[neilhytholt]

'Anger Management' is a farce. Nobody's going to tell you not to use an Adam Sandler character as a model for your internal narrative. If your repetitive posts are an indication of dealing with the problems in one's life then might I suggest Peter Seller's 'Being There'

I don't think it is a farce. Because people hold things in and try to be politically correct, and what happens is they have all this anger building up.

It's like in L.A. where they smile to your face but stab you in the back. No thanks. At least Jules is up front with her animosity. Much more of a New Yorker than an L.A. person.

As for 'Being There', Chance? He's a brain-dead moron. That movie is a farce, literally. Not to say it isn't an enjoyable farce.

[SevenStar]

You get women by being a thai boxer or a bouncer? You guys are so lucky. I guess smacking poles in the backyard doesn't cut it.

Oh, well. You know, after spending some time on this forum and the entire women thing, I think I just need to retire to taking care of my kids, and training them, and leave the entire woman thing to others.

I think Jules is right that I wouldn't be right for any women or anything like that.

Besides, women just aren't really exciting as breaking bricks IMHO, or training my kids when they get a form, and they're running around the house doing drills with each other.

My dad said it best when he said, "The kids are the best part of the marriage." (Mom was a bit peeved about that one).


I guess it's the tough guy image, go figure. From a female standpoint, I guess it's cuz they assume we can protect them - especially since it's part of the job as a bouncer. Then every once in a while, you get the freaks who just like to be handcuffed - I actually had a woman walking around the club in cuffs once because she just wanted to wear them. Then there are the ones who train and want to test themselves. I've had a chick from chicago who trains boxing and mma and a local judoka "challenge" me. We have a female dj who works out that does this on a regular basis. It's always friendly, but I guess they just want to get manhandled, cuz they know they can't win.

A few weeks ago, this happened with a spanish girl. She said that even though I was a big bouncer, she could still kick my ass even though I was bigger than her. We started wrestling. I was going easy on her, then her two cousins (also female) ran up from behind. One of them jumped on me, thinking that I was seriously fighting her. I didn't know - I just felt someone on my back, so I tossed her off of me. afterward, she said she went easy on me. I saw her in a store the next week and we got a laugh out of it.

Just this past tuesday, a woman tried to box with me. She also bet me $10 that if we switched roles (she acted like she was the door guy, and I was someone causing trouble) that she could physically put me out the door. She lost ten bucks.

Then, there are the gimme girls. They will flirt with you, amongst other things, in attempts to get in free when they come. On a typical saturday night, we charge $25 to get in, which is pretty high here, so if they can find a way to get in free, they jump at it.

Lastly are the ones who actually want to train. I actually picked up several private students - they either saw me on tv or some other way found out I train - and wanted to learn.

[neilhytholt]

A few weeks ago, this happened with a spanish girl. She said that even though I was a big bouncer, she could still kick my ass even though I was bigger than her. We started wrestling. I was going easy on her, then her two cousins (also female) ran up from behind. One of them jumped on me, thinking that I was seriously fighting her. I didn't know - I just felt someone on my back, so I tossed her off of me. afterward, she said she went easy on me. I saw her in a store the next week and we got a laugh out of it.

Just this past tuesday, a woman tried to box with me. She also bet me $10 that if we switched roles (she acted like she was the door guy, and I was someone causing trouble) that she could physically put me out the door. She lost ten bucks.


That's pretty cool. I'd be a bouncer but with 2 kids I can't really take the chance of something happening.

I used to sometimes meet a younger, more adventurous woman, and I mention that I train, and then I let her hit me as hard as she wants in the upper body or kick me as hard as she wants in my legs.

But a couple of them when they really went for it, they kindof hurt themselves so I stopped that.

[bodhitree]

Careful with that, she may think that you like men.


Thats the first thing I thought when I read that.

[Jules]

I just want to say...



Jules...






nice call

Consolidated

great band

how about "You Suck" with the Yeastie Girls :D

my personal fav of their's... CrackHouse


YES! I love that song. ^_^ Right on with another person liking Consolidated. They have (had?) so much to say.

~~J

[Jules]

I think Jules is just very pro estrogen and anti testoserone. she was the one who threw off the reputations thread because I posted a quote by Jay-Z:

http://martial.best.vwh.net/forum/showthread.php?p=655100#post655100


Proudly a feminist, which means I don't take bull****, outdated attitudes from men OR from women, and I don't respond well to generalizations and made-up statistics ("99% of all women this or that.") God, you're still stinging over the fact that I called you on your BS too, huh? Wow. Took me a minute to place your name.

And if I've answered only Neil and none of the others, it's because I tend to lump all idiots together, and he's the most vocal.

~~J

[SevenStar]

lol, woman wake up... this is the internet. I had actually long forgotten about that thread. However, reading your posts in this thread brought it back to me. It amazes me how you lump all of us "idiots" together, then continue to argue and post your feminist views on the INTERNET, as if we care about them. Remember, arguing over the internet is like winning the special olympics. Even if you win... Well, I'm sure you know the rest.

hey, shouldn't you be cooking someone's dinner right about now?

[neilhytholt]

Feminist. That's pretty funny.

Actually, I'm a feminist too. I think women should have equal rights and be equal to men.

And I expect them to treat me the way I would expect men to treat me. I expect them to treat me well.

But it doesn't work that way. You know, I saw Goria Steinem on T.V. a couple of days ago. You know, she got married? Age 66, yes, she got married. LOL

The sexes aren't the same. Sorry.

So when I hold women up to the same standards of behavior as men, I get called misogynistic.

When I point out the obvious fact that women lack testosterone so their muscle mass and bone mass is less, so they can't compete at the same level in a lot of sports, I get called misogynistic.

Well I guess THE ENTIRE WORLD agrees with me, because they have separate classes of sports for men than women.

If I point out that ONLY WOMEN CAN HAVE BABIES of course then I'm probably misogynistic too.

You know, feminism is so 3 decades ago. This is the 2000s not the 1970s.

You know, most of you so-called feminists are nothing of the sort. You want career, you want men to still worship you and support you making babies when you're in your 30s and 40s.

You want it all, you don't want to be feminists.

Most of the flack I get is I say women should pay for their own dates. Women should pay their own bills. Women should treat me decently as I treat them. Women should pull their own weight.

Feminists don't want that. They want to be princesses and get preferential treatment. That's the thing that bugs me the most.

Anyways, feminism is old fashioned now. Women aren't all wanting to be feminists now. Lots and lots of women now are wanting to stay home and raise kids.

Feminism was a failure. Doesn't mean women don't still have equal rights. Doesn't mean they can't own property. Doesn't mean they are slaves.

Just means the sexes are not the same.

[Jules]

You know, most of you so-called feminists are nothing of the sort. You want career, you want men to still worship you and support you making babies when you're in your 30s and 40s.

You want it all, you don't want to be feminists.

Most of the flack I get is I say women should pay for their own dates. Women should pay their own bills. Women should treat me decently as I treat them. Women should pull their own weight.

Feminists don't want that. They want to be princesses and get preferential treatment. That's the thing that bugs me the most.



Precisely the generalizations that make you into the idiot that you are. End o' story.


Other moron said:


lol, woman wake up... this is the internet. I had actually long forgotten about that thread. However, reading your posts in this thread brought it back to me. It amazes me how you lump all of us "idiots" together, then continue to argue and post your feminist views on the INTERNET, as if we care about them. Remember, arguing over the internet is like winning the special olympics. Even if you win... Well, I'm sure you know the rest.

And here you are, arguing.

~~J

[Scott R. Brown]

Proudly a feminist, which means I don't take bull****, outdated attitudes from men OR from women, and I don't respond well to generalizations and made-up statistics ("99% of all women this or that.") God, you're still stinging over the fact that I called you on your BS too, huh? Wow. Took me a minute to place your name.

And if I've answered only Neil and none of the others, it's because I tend to lump all idiots together, and he's the most vocal.

~~J

Hi Jules,

Your views as a feminist are very hypocritical! You gain respect by giving respect, not by acting like a jerk. You may think you are defending women everywhere, but you are only making yourself look like a wananbe man! Women don’t become man’s equal, that is treated with respect, by acting like men. They become equal by appreciating their womanhood and behaving like a lady. Men don’t respect women who know their place, they respect women who know themselves and are comfortable with that. If you try to compete with men, by acting like a man you will earn mostly ridicule. Remember most men were raised at least partially by a woman, and most men love their mothers. It is women who try to be men that are laughed at, not the ones who behave with feminine dignity.

You have huge issues of your own going on here. Feminism should be about being treated of equal value, not actually BEING equal. Men and women never have been and never will be equal! Get used to the idea! No one on the planet is treated as equally as anyone else. Men don’t treat other men equally and women don’t treat other women equally! You may see your attitude as defending women, but it comes across as attempting to punish men for imagined wrongs you have suffered. You appear to be overcompensating and in the process you have ended up projecting an attitude worse than the one you criticize. In truth you are behaving like a FEMALE chauvinist pig!

This need you have to denigrate men makes you look weak, not strong. A strong person, man or woman, has no need to denigrate others because they do not NEED to belittle others in order to appreciate and accept their own self value. The imagined slights you seek to defend against are nothing more than men expressing the things about women that annoy them. As I have already stated, this is something that occurs with women towards men too. You think is it too much? Too bad!! We are not here to make you feel good about yourself and recognize your value as a person! We don’t HAVE to respect you! That is not to say we WON”T respect you. Respect is earned over time by one’s conduct not something that is bestowed by virtue of you being a woman!

If you feel inferior that is your own issue. If some men want to think some women are inferior that is their issue. If it makes you feel angry that some men believe that way, you are not being realistic. It isn’t a man issue it is a people issue. I am willing to bet there have been some women in your life that believed you were inferior to them as well. You seem to be reacting to your own sense of inferiority here and not dealing with your feelings of insecurity about your own inherent value as a human being! This is not men’s issue and it is not any one man’s issue, it is YOUR issue!

One of the things that women who want to be treated as equally as men don’t understand is: the way they are treated by men is the EXACT same way that men treat each other. Men can take it, women can’t! Men learn to live with it, women cry about it just like you are doing now!

Many times when women are treated equally by men they get their feelings hurt and then complain about what jerks men are; this leads men to believe that women want to be treated SPECIALLY, not EQUALLY! This fact reveals the hypocrisy of the feminist movement. Many women don’t take the time to understand and accept how men think and behave and when they do they don’t like it! Many women want to be understood and accepted by men, but they don’t consider they need to understand and accept men as well! Again, this is hypocrisy! When women don’t get treated the way they want to be treated they complain and go to court and whine and cry about it. They seek to change men’s attitudes and behaviors without considering it is their own behavior and attitude that needs to change. Once again this is the hypocrisy of feminism.

[Jules]

Hi Jules,

(snip a bunch of illogical ranting)



You're terrified. Why?



In truth you are behaving like a FEMALE chauvinist pig!


Right. Because I take exception to the notion that women should be raised to please men.

~~J

[Scott R. Brown]

Hi Jules,

I am trying to kindly explain to you that you are acting like a child!

The way you react to criticism only demonstrates the points I have made. Your out of hand disregard for the comments and simplistic response demonstrates the truth of my points! You want to dish it out, but you can't take it! This is immaturity!

You are nothing to fear! You are merely a childish person who needs some friendly guidance. I have spoken to others as strongly or more strongly as need be.

Take it or leave it! I will continue to respond as I am inclined!

[Hieronim]

http://p094.ezboard.com/faskmenfrm1.showMessage?topicID=113149.topic

" Interesting lessons learned on low self esteem This weekend I met this tiny little girl in a club (85 lbs....oh my). So me and my buddy are talking to her and she was very abrasive and defensive but cute and funny too. As we were talking more, she started pointing out other women that I should "go for". Now typically when I see a woman do this it means "I'm not interested so go for her". But in this case, she was amazed that I was going for her.

So I take her out the other day and she can bearly look me in the face. I'm thinking "Wow, was it the light - or the lack of alcohol that made her lose interest?" But as time went on I realized she was just really nervous.

I then got her drunk (doesn't take much for such a small girl and she started trying to push me away (emotionally). So when we got back to her place I was just fed up and took off before I went inside. Then she calls me like 10 times apologizing for her behavoir and begging me to give her another chance.

Of course, I will She is tiny and I would love to have sex with her. Nothing long term, but she looks like she can be some fun in the sac.

I guess the point of my post is that typical signs from a woman can mean something different if you throw a really low self esteem into the mix."

And Im willing to bet hes like over 30 and sitll thinks like this. 90 percent of guys do of all ages, or possibly 99% of guiys do. sex is the only thing they want because that's all females are good for. What else do they really bring to the table considering they always date up in the social ladder? Whats funny is on mma.tv they were discussing how much they liked that scene from nip tuk where that female had a bag over her head and was crying while that one sergant banged ehr guts out caus ehe told her shell only have a date with him if she does that with a bag ove rher head.

[Scott R. Brown]

Right. Because I take exception to the notion that women should be raised to please men.

This is your issue! Perhaps I missed it, but I haven't read this anywhere here! You appear to be defending against an imaginary demon, one of your own creation!

In truth, in a loving relatioship BOTH partners seek the best for the other, NOT just their own good! This is mutual repect!

[Jules]

Hi Jules,

I am trying to kindly explain to you that you are acting like a child!


There is no kindness in anything you've said. But that's all right, I'm speaking out of anger, too. One other thing, there's no need for you to overuse the exclamation points, either.



You are nothing to fear!


I certainly didn't mean me; I'm mostly harmless. I mean of women's attitudes in general.

My issue is with the idea that women should be brought up to better please men. If you can't see why that's wrong, you're hopeless.

~~J

[Scott R. Brown]

Hi Jules,

LOL!! I enjoy the exclamation point! Try to find something more substantial to divert the conversation away from you projecting your own issues onto the topic!!

As I just said, perhaps I missed it, but I have not seen this written or implied on this thread. Neil is merely ventilating his feelings here. If anyone said something along those lines it was probably just to stick it too you.

You are nothing to fear and women are nothing to fear. I love and cherish my wife and I am looking forward to having a daughter. We already put our order in with God!!

I am not speaking from anger! You are projecting your own issues again!

[SevenStar]

And here you are, arguing.



actually, that wasn't arguing. that was commenting on the fact that you thought you were important enough for me to still be "hurt" by the old thread. What you are doing with neil and scott - THAT'S arguing.

[Scott R. Brown]

There is no kindness in anything you've said.


Hi Jules,

Demonstrating to another the error of their thinking is a kindness, not a cruelty! I have been direct, not denigrating or rude. I have not told anyone to go have a circle jerk, to kill themselves or any other such childishness.

Speaking in a measured manner in response to rude behavior, repeated insults and denigrating treatment is a kindness!

If you turned some of the energy you expend here insulting others towards yourself you would gain some insights into your issues which is the first step towards resolving them.

I do not know how long you have been training in the Chinese MA, but in some schools the tradition has been to encourage students to harmonize their mind, body and spirit. I refer to it as mind, body and emotions. It is believed that if one is merely training physically they are creating a being out of balance with Tao. MA is not just about fighting it is also about improving our character. We cannot develop our character if we are not able to introspect into our minds and face our personal issues. The resolution of these issues is the path to harmony with Tao! When we are physcially, emotionally and mentally in balance we are better prepared to face the vicissitudes of life!

[neilhytholt]

There is no kindness in anything you've said. But that's all right, I'm speaking out of anger, too. One other thing, there's no need for you to overuse the exclamation points, either.



I certainly didn't mean me; I'm mostly harmless. I mean of women's attitudes in general.

My issue is with the idea that women should be brought up to better please men. If you can't see why that's wrong, you're hopeless.

~~J

Jules, when I said trained better, it didn't mean trained to please men.

It meant trained TO BE A BETTER HUMAN BEING.

To treat others with respect, kindness, good morals, not lie, etc.

To enter into relationships with reasonable expections, and not make life hard at the expense of the other person.

To realize that we all grow old and die, your partner isn't perfect, you aren't perfect, not to want the $500,000 house when all you need is the $350,000 house, etc.

Nobody said they should be better trained to please men. That part about the massages and stuff WAS A JOKE.

So that's what you're still mad about, my Confucius comments about that when the man isn't in charge of the home, that there is no discipline in the family, and no discipline in the state, and the people don't respect the king, etc.

Well, it's an experiment we're doing now with women's rights. Only in the past 100 years or so have women really had them.

And it's plainly not working very well. LOL

But that doesn't mean it won't work. Yes, I do not want to enter into a relationship because I don't think women have really learned responsibility to go along with their freedom. But that doesn't mean I don't think women shouldn't be free.

[Water Dragon]

My issue is with the idea that women should be brought up to better please men. If you can't see why that's wrong, you're hopeless.

~~J

Of course they should. The hard truth is that your feminism and and Neil's mysogynism are two sides of the same coin.

To me, it looks like what you are both arguing is the exact opposite of what a Man or Woman should be. Should a woman be trained to please her man? Of course! Provided that she runs into a real man who knows how to care for her. Should she be trained to please anything with a pekker? No way.

[Water Dragon]

It meant trained TO BE A BETTER HUMAN BEING.

To treat others with respect, kindness, good morals, not lie, etc.

To enter into relationships with reasonable expections, and not make life hard at the expense of the other person.

To realize that we all grow old and die, your partner isn't perfect, you aren't perfect, not to want the $500,000 house when all you need is the $350,000 house, etc.

Nobody said they should be better trained to please men. That part about the massages and stuff WAS A JOKE.

So that's what you're still mad about, my Confucius comments about that when the man isn't in charge of the home, that there is no discipline in the family, and no discipline in the state, and the people don't respect the king, etc.

Well, it's an experiment we're doing now with women's rights. Only in the past 100 years or so have women really had them.

And it's plainly not working very well. LOL



Oh Wow! You surprised me Neil, you really did. There's some Wisdom in what you posted above.

Let me offer you one thing which I think is causing all this chaos. It's not women who are screwed up it's the individual women involved. Unfortunately, most people just aren't very good people anymore, but there are still some. Most men AND most women are messed up, needy, materialsitec, etc. You don't notice the men so much because you don't want to f*** them. You just need to be patient and not become bitter; you're becoming bitter. I've been divorced for two years now. I've probably 'seen' a good 20 women or so since then. We've kicked for a couple months here and there but nothing serious. Out of the 20 I've seen like that, I've become interested in maybe two but nothing came of that. That comes out to about 1 in ten women (people) being worthwhile. That's just how it is. It says nothing of women and everything of people. I don't think you're quite getting that yet Bro.

But Good Words my man, Good Words

[neilhytholt]

Of course they should. The hard truth is that your feminism and and Neil's mysogynism are two sides of the same coin.

To me, it looks like what you are both arguing is the exact opposite of what a Man or Woman should be. Should a woman be trained to please her man? Of course! Provided that she runs into a real man who knows how to care for her. Should she be trained to please anything with a pekker? No way.

Yeah, actually when you really think about it, how often have you heard from women that men are bad in the sack?

That explains it. I must have always dated feminists. That's why they just lay there and didn't do much. Because they don't want to learn to please men.

Edit ... (That was supposed to be a JOKE Btw ... only partly, though. I mean, I guess I shouldn't expect any different).

[Water Dragon]

That explains it. I must have always dated feminists. That's why they just lay there and didn't do much. Because they don't want to learn to please men.

Ya know, I have never had that problem, ever. Are you sure you've learned how to please women?

[neilhytholt]

Ya know, I have never had that problem, ever. Are you sure you've learned how to please women?

I've had no complaints ... after about the first 5 or so who obviously were hugely disappointed... LOL

[Water Dragon]

Well, go practice more then! lol

[neilhytholt]

Well, go practice more then! lol

Nah, it spreads disease. I don't want to have to worry if my partner is cheating and what diseases she has, along with all the melodrama.

Plus, sex is highly over-rated. You do all this work, pay for the dates, B.S. trying not to p*ss them off and then you get to do all the work in the sack, buy them breakfast the next morning, and for what? Just to get the rocks off.

Far easier just not to bother with dating at all. Just rent a video or something and you're done in 10 minutes.

Then you can spend more time with the kids too. All that time you're trying to date and please some somebody you can spend with your kids, teaching them martial arts, playing mini-golf, go-kart racing, baseball, basketball, video games ...

I don't think I'll ever waste time dating again.

[Water Dragon]

Nah, it spreads disease. I don't want to have to worry if my partner is cheating and what diseases she has, along with all the melodrama.

Plus, sex is highly over-rated. You do all this work, pay for the dates, B.S. trying not to p*ss them off and then you get to do all the work in the sack, buy them breakfast the next morning, and for what? Just to get the rocks off.

Far easier just not to bother with dating at all. Just rent a video or something and you're done in 10 minutes.

Then you can spend more time with the kids too. All that time you're trying to date and please some somebody you can spend with your kids, teaching them martial arts, playing mini-golf, go-kart racing, baseball, basketball, video games ...

I don't think I'll ever waste time dating again.

See Bro, this is what I was talking about when I said you need to take control of your life. This stuff happens with you because you allow it to. You are not going out there on your terms.

Dating shouldn't be work. It should be fun. You're trying to find someone who's right for you. You shouldn't be the one trying to impress her. Take her out to do things that you like to do. If she doesn't enjoy the date, see ya! You don't have to pay for all the dates, although I usually pick up the tab the majority of the time.

You please a woman only when there's something about her that makes you want to please her. Women don't sleep with every man they go out with, so why should you play the man for every woman you date? Let them prove themselves to you first. Trust me when I say women will notice this and respect it. You might be surprised how well a woman can try to please a man when this happens.

I'm a single Pops too. You can do both. If you go out twice a month, you still have 28 full days to spend with your kids. Get a sitter and have 2-4 dates a month, it wont interfere with your kid time. If things proceed from there, you start thinking about that then. But any woman who doesn't understand your kids come first isn't a woman you want around anyway.

Play the man, Bro. Take charge and do it on your terms, always.

[neilhytholt]

See Bro, this is what I was talking about when I said you need to take control of your life. This stuff happens with you because you allow it to. You are not going out there on your terms.

Dating shouldn't be work. It should be fun. You're trying to find someone who's right for you. You shouldn't be the one trying to impress her. Take her out to do things that you like to do. If she doesn't enjoy the date, see ya! You don't have to pay for all the dates, although I usually pick up the tab the majority of the time.

You please a woman only when there's something about her that makes you want to please her. Women don't sleep with every man they go out with, so why should you play the man for every woman you date? Let them prove themselves to you first. Trust me when I say women will notice this and respect it. You might be surprised how well a woman can try to please a man when this happens.

I'm a single Pops too. You can do both. If you go out twice a month, you still have 28 full days to spend with your kids. Get a sitter and have 2-4 dates a month, it wont interfere with your kid time. If things proceed from there, you start thinking about that then. But any woman who doesn't understand your kids come first isn't a woman you want around anyway.

Play the man, Bro. Take charge and do it on your terms, always.

Doesn't work that way. Like you said, you pay for the majority. Women expect you to pay. The one who asks pays, and the women never seem to ask.

The only women I ever had ask me out really wanted something from me. And they never actually asked me out, they said, "You know, I have some free time on XXX day if you want to ask me out."

And the things they wanted in return were always favors. Like fixing up something around their house, or even marrying somebody who was from another country so they could get a green-card.

Since I decided to stop trying to please women, and ask women out, I've had ZERO dates.

Once in a while I go to lunch with a woman, usually a co-worker, or I invite a woman out for drinks, and for the drinks I wind up paying.

Anyways, whatever. Obviously what you do works for you. But IMHO dating is a complete waste of time.

[Water Dragon]

fair enough

[neilhytholt]

The bottom line here is. What I found when I was dating was this.

(And Jules this probably goes for guys, too, right? Because we all know that guys are pigs).

If you treat a woman well, if you buy her stuff, she won't respect you. She might sleep with you a couple of times. She might even marry you.

But she won't respect you. She will think you're a tool, for her use, and she won't respect you.

The guys that I met that women actually did things for them, these guys were 'players', and and they got tons of chicks. Didn't treat them well, did all the classic bad stuff, but women seemed to like them well enough.

But it just isn't worth it for me. Like I said, I see women now and I'm not interested anymore. I just have to worry do they have any STDs, will they give them to me, what's she going to do when I'm not watching.

If I wanted to be a 'player', I'd be talking up Jules about all that feminism crap, pretending to be interested in Hawaiian culture (oh, yes, my neighbor was Hawaiian, have you ever heard of Huna? She made her own Kahlua, and it was the best ever. I can't wait to go back to the islands).

But honestly, I don't give a crap. Because if that's what it takes to get them, it's just not worth it. Because they don't add any value to my life.

[Water Dragon]

Like I said, Bro. fair enough. I gave my opinion, you gave yours. We're different. esta bien.

[neilhytholt]

Anyways the mango-tangerine yogurt pops are a big hit, and I'm done with all this women stuff.

This weekend we're going to try making Autumn Moon cakes.

[Water Dragon]

See Bro. You got your cake, I got my pie. We're both happy

[Royal Dragon]

Plus, sex is highly over-rated. You do all this work, pay for the dates, B.S. trying not to p*ss them off and then you get to do all the work in the sack, buy them breakfast the next morning, and for what? Just to get the rocks off.

Reply]
Maybe it's becasue I am Italian, but Sex is just a small part of the courtship. It's not the goal, it's the climax of the entire day.

It's not about "Getting ur rocks off", it's about building chemistry, sharing passion and romance. It starts with that first call to say "Hey baby, I don't mean to bug you this early in the day, but I just can't stop thinking about you!" Or that little smilie face text messege you send for no reason. It's in the hug you share when you first meet, and the longing look you give eacother as you gentily brush by one another in the kitchen, or the little smirk as you hold hands walking from the car to the restraunt.

The energy builds between you all day until you become over powered by it and cannot help kissing passonately. Your cloths are off, you don't know how, and you are sharing sheer extacy as you become intoxicated by her scent.

As the climax has passed, and you are laying there holding her close you can feel her shalking slightly as she squezzes you and smiles, making that soft little happy noise she only makes for you.

She is your lover, your companion, your best friend. She is the one you lean on in tims of trouble, and laugh with untill your face is sore. It's about passion, raw attraction on a deep level and a true bonding with her soul.

It's not about getting ur rocks off...that is a totaly selfish view, and probably why you are alone.

[Water Dragon]

Royal Dragon is a woman?

[neilhytholt]

It's not about getting ur rocks off...that is a totaly selfish view, and probably why you are alone.

Nah, I don't believe in any of that romance stuff. I've been screwed over too many times.

You know what I found out a few weeks ago? I was talking to my ex's former best friend, and I found out she was cheating on me even while she was going out with me before we were married.

That she only married me because she was approaching 30 and the guys she really liked going out with, the bad boys, were kindof economic losers.

How's that for irony?

So, no, I don't believe in any of that romance stuff. IMHO it was created by gypsies in the 12th century so they could scam people out of their money and it's caused nothing but problems ever since.

[Jules]

Hi Jules,

LOL!! I enjoy the exclamation point! Try to find something more substantial to divert the conversation away from you projecting your own issues onto the topic!!

As I just said, perhaps I missed it, but I have not seen this written or implied on this thread. Neil is merely ventilating his feelings here. If anyone said something along those lines it was probably just to stick it too you.

You are nothing to fear and women are nothing to fear. I love and cherish my wife and I am looking forward to having a daughter. We already put our order in with God!!

I am not speaking from anger! You are projecting your own issues again!

You did miss it, because he has said it repeatedly. I'm not going through the entire ridiculous thread to find the few times that Neil has said--not implied, but said--that American women need to be brought up better because they are not pleasing enough to men, him in particular.

Do I take issue with that? You frigging bet I do.

~~Jules

[Jules]

Of course they should. The hard truth is that your feminism and and Neil's mysogynism are two sides of the same coin.

To me, it looks like what you are both arguing is the exact opposite of what a Man or Woman should be. Should a woman be trained to please her man? Of course! Provided that she runs into a real man who knows how to care for her.

Bull. A woman can be a whole person without a man. A man can be a whole person without a woman. There is no "training" involved here. And I certainly don't see you mentioning or even implying that men should be "trained" to please their women. Just because she "runs into a man who knows how to care for her" she now has to be "trained to please him?" Excuse me while I vomit into my mouth a little here. There are lots of men out there who would "care for me" and a few good ones who have offered. Sorry, but I don't need care; I can take care of myself.

~~Jules

[Hieronim]

why is it that females are the only gender to change their mind regarding someone who they thought was hot due to recent events involving that person? or their actions? And why do guys try to have sex with females they have no romantic interest in? I just dont get why would someone go through all the trouble of doing that when you can just jack off at home?

[neilhytholt]

why is it that females are the only gender to change their mind regarding someone who they thought was hot due to recent events involving that person? or their actions? And why do guys try to have sex with females they have no romantic interest in? I just dont get why would someone go through all the trouble of doing that when you can just jack off at home?

I dunno what you mean about the only ones to change their minds. I don't think that's true. You never changed your mind about somebody due to recent events?

As for the no romantic interest, let me put it this way. Before about 100 years ago, most all marriages were arranged by family. This was because over thousands of years, they found that arranged marriages, where you marry for family produced the most stable society.

Only relatively recently (past 100 years or so) has the idea of 'marrying for love' come around.

Before that, people realized that all that romantic literature was just that, literature and poems, and most people were illiterate anyway, so they couldn't even read it. It was stories sung by poets and such, plays, for entertainment, not for reality.

And we can all see what problems not marrying for family cause. Not that I'm complaining, because the birth rate has lowered a lot due to those problems and we live on a very crowded planet.

[Royal Dragon]

Neil,
I don't buy that. People have married for Love for our entire existance. They have also cheated for love, killed for love, gone to war for love, sacraficed for love, and even found themselves driven to amass fortunes to win their heart's desires, again for love.

Truth be known, Men built the world....for the Love of a Woman.

[neilhytholt]

Neil,
I don't buy that. People have married for Love for our entire existance. They have also cheated for love, killed for love, gone to war for love, sacraficed for love, and even found themselves driven to amass fortunes to win their heart's desires, again for love.

Truth be known, Men built the world....for the Love of a Woman.

Actually, in much of the world, they still practice arranged marriage. In India, for example, something like 95% of the marriages are arranged.

Muslims still practice arranged marriage.

Really, the entire 'West' and the entire concept of women's rights, democracy and all that is very new in the history of the world.

Sure, you hear a lot of stories about people doing stupid things 'for love', but you usually hear about those a) because it sells books, poems, movies,etc. and b) because those people caused a lot of trouble.

Take Shakespeare. Romeo and Juliet. That was written for entertainment at a time when most all (really like 99.9999%) of the marriages were arranged and there were still kings, and women were considered the property of men.

[Hieronim]

I dunno what you mean about the only ones to change their minds. I don't think that's true. You never changed your mind about somebody due to recent events?

As for the no romantic interest, let me put it this way. Before about 100 years ago, most all marriages were arranged by family. This was because over thousands of years, they found that arranged marriages, where you marry for family produced the most stable society.

Only relatively recently (past 100 years or so) has the idea of 'marrying for love' come around.

Before that, people realized that all that romantic literature was just that, literature and poems, and most people were illiterate anyway, so they couldn't even read it. It was stories sung by poets and such, plays, for entertainment, not for reality.

And we can all see what problems not marrying for family cause. Not that I'm complaining, because the birth rate has lowered a lot due to those problems and we live on a very crowded planet.


didnt a 100 yrs ago also girls around 13 got married and f-ked? Now they make such a big deal about a 21 yr old guy hitting on them but it wasnt even taboo till recently.

[neilhytholt]

didnt a 100 yrs ago also girls around 13 got married and f-ked? Now they make such a big deal about a 21 yr old guy hitting on them but it wasnt even taboo till recently.

Women getting married off young was very common. Depending upon the culture, boys got married off young as well.

Child labor was also very common. Schooling was very un-common.

People have a very warped view of history because they view it through Hollywood which of course changes a ton of things to sell movies.

Don't think people would like movies the way it usually really was, for example, women not being able to be along in a room with somebody who wasn't her family, slaves in most cultures, lowered standards of hygiene, scars from diseases like smallpox, etc. etc.

Blacks for example are always crying about being slaves, but slaves existed in just about every culture. You lost a war and often times your people became slaves. Women divided up, boys and men either killed or becoming slaves or eunuchs. People forget about that stuff.

[SevenStar]

Blacks for example are always crying about being slaves, but slaves existed in just about every culture. You lost a war and often times your people became slaves. Women divided up, boys and men either killed or becoming slaves or eunuchs. People forget about that stuff.


Nah, we don't forget, we don't care. I personally don't scream about it, but many of us do. But like I said, we don't forget. It's like murder. You hear about it every day in the news. Do you ever really just think about it though? most people don't - until it's someone in their family that gets killed. THEN, you take it personally. other races were indeed enslaved as well, for various reasons. But it's not their race, so it's not really thought about.

[SevenStar]

Plus, sex is highly over-rated. You do all this work, pay for the dates, B.S. trying not to p*ss them off and then you get to do all the work in the sack, buy them breakfast the next morning, and for what? Just to get the rocks off.

Reply]
Maybe it's becasue I am Italian, but Sex is just a small part of the courtship. It's not the goal, it's the climax of the entire day.

It's not about "Getting ur rocks off", it's about building chemistry, sharing passion and romance. It starts with that first call to say "Hey baby, I don't mean to bug you this early in the day, but I just can't stop thinking about you!" Or that little smilie face text messege you send for no reason. It's in the hug you share when you first meet, and the longing look you give eacother as you gentily brush by one another in the kitchen, or the little smirk as you hold hands walking from the car to the restraunt.

The energy builds between you all day until you become over powered by it and cannot help kissing passonately. Your cloths are off, you don't know how, and you are sharing sheer extacy as you become intoxicated by her scent.

As the climax has passed, and you are laying there holding her close you can feel her shalking slightly as she squezzes you and smiles, making that soft little happy noise she only makes for you.

She is your lover, your companion, your best friend. She is the one you lean on in tims of trouble, and laugh with untill your face is sore. It's about passion, raw attraction on a deep level and a true bonding with her soul.

It's not about getting ur rocks off...that is a totaly selfish view, and probably why you are alone.

Only if you care about the woman. Other than that, it's about gettin your rocks off... And Although it can be considered a selfish view, it's one that is shared by MANY women these days.

[Crushing Fist]

Lot's of things are new in the history of the world...


If you hadn't noticed things have been changing pretty quickly.

One of the big changes is education and social awareness.

Another is these nifty computers we're using to communicate.



The Edict of Nature:


Evolve or Die





As for love read Krishnamurti... I won't butcher his work by attempting to paraphrase him.


As for the topic of this highly annoying thread that I keep reading like its some kind of train wreck...


Women find Martial Artists to be Hott <----- 2 "t's"

As long as said martial artists are fit.

Otherwise it makes them look extra d0rky, like a star trek conventioneer or something.

I once got laid just for showing off my breakfall into full front split :D

Women are turned on by all the muscles and testosterone, like any other athletes.

[SevenStar]

Actually, in much of the world, they still practice arranged marriage. In India, for example, something like 95% of the marriages are arranged.

Muslims still practice arranged marriage.

Really, the entire 'West' and the entire concept of women's rights, democracy and all that is very new in the history of the world.

Sure, you hear a lot of stories about people doing stupid things 'for love', but you usually hear about those a) because it sells books, poems, movies,etc. and b) because those people caused a lot of trouble.

Take Shakespeare. Romeo and Juliet. That was written for entertainment at a time when most all (really like 99.9999%) of the marriages were arranged and there were still kings, and women were considered the property of men.

And ironically, india has a much higher success rate when we do in terms of lasting marriages.

[neilhytholt]

Nah, we don't forget, we don't care. I personally don't scream about it, but many of us do. But like I said, we don't forget. It's like murder. You hear about it every day in the news. Do you ever really just think about it though? most people don't - until it's someone in their family that gets killed. THEN, you take it personally. other races were indeed enslaved as well, for various reasons. But it's not their race, so it's not really thought about.

Ironically my ancestry is Native American - Finnish - Norwegian. My family was in Finland and were fisherman/sailors when the Russians attacked, captured them, and tried to force them into being sailors for the Czar.

They managed to escape, and fled to America.

The Native Americans were brutally oppressed, slaughtered, sent off to reservations, where a lot of them died of diseases and until the casinos, were extremely bad off economically.

So whenever blacks complain to me about oppression, I just go, "Okay, who in history was not oppressed?"

Basically, this is a very, very rare country where people have so many freedoms, and it could very easily flip on a dime back to the way it used to be.

[neilhytholt]

And ironically, india has a much higher success rate when we do in terms of lasting marriages.

Well, it's because they're trained better. (Jules is going to hate this one). They are trained basically to put family first above the individual. They are used to the idea of an arranged marriage, so used to it, in fact, that they bug me all the time about not being married, which is extremely annoying.

I try to explain to them about divorce, etc., and they just have no frame of reference for what I'm talking about. "Why don't you get remarried?" LOL

It's changing, of course with Western influence, but their divorce rate is very low.

[neilhytholt]

Lot's of things are new in the history of the world...


If you hadn't noticed things have been changing pretty quickly.

One of the big changes is education and social awareness.

Another is these nifty computers we're using to communicate.



The Edict of Nature:


Evolve or Die





As for love read Krishnamurti... I won't butcher his work by attempting to paraphrase him.


As for the topic of this highly annoying thread that I keep reading like its some kind of train wreck...


Women find Martial Artists to be Hott <----- 2 "t's"

As long as said martial artists are fit.

Otherwise it makes them look extra d0rky, like a star trek conventioneer or something.

I once got laid just for showing off my breakfall into full front split :D

Women are turned on by all the muscles and testosterone, like any other athletes.

Of course breakfall into full splits is oh, so useful in a fight. LOL

Anyways, I'm going to drop this whole topic now, because it just takes time away from the kids.

If some woman could figure out what's really useful in a fight, and is impressed by how I bang on poles in my backyard, and is extremely, extremely nice, mentally stable, financially together, doesn't mind kids, and my kids actually like her, then I might consider letting her hang out with us.

But chances of that, IMHO, are about the same as getting hit by lightning while walking on a sunny day through L.A.

[SevenStar]

The bottom line here is. What I found when I was dating was this.

(And Jules this probably goes for guys, too, right? Because we all know that guys are pigs).

If you treat a woman well, if you buy her stuff, she won't respect you. She might sleep with you a couple of times. She might even marry you.

But she won't respect you. She will think you're a tool, for her use, and she won't respect you.

The guys that I met that women actually did things for them, these guys were 'players', and and they got tons of chicks. Didn't treat them well, did all the classic bad stuff, but women seemed to like them well enough.

But it just isn't worth it for me. Like I said, I see women now and I'm not interested anymore. I just have to worry do they have any STDs, will they give them to me, what's she going to do when I'm not watching.

If I wanted to be a 'player', I'd be talking up Jules about all that feminism crap, pretending to be interested in Hawaiian culture (oh, yes, my neighbor was Hawaiian, have you ever heard of Huna? She made her own Kahlua, and it was the best ever. I can't wait to go back to the islands).

But honestly, I don't give a crap. Because if that's what it takes to get them, it's just not worth it. Because they don't add any value to my life.

yeah, there is truth to this. A buddy of mine is a total B@stard to women. He will date multiple women at a time, which is cool, but he will bring them around one another, talk bad to ALL OF THEM AT THE SAME TIME, etc. After work (the night job) several of us usually go for breakfast, and he'll sometimes bring his girl. Naturally, she pays for her own food, sometimes his too, then gives him her car so he can take her home and have the car all day if he needs it. But you know what? They LOVE it. they keep running back, begging him to stay with them.

The most amazing thing I'd ever seen him do (woman wise) was with a spoiled rich girl. She told both he and I that she was used to getting her way and she never paid for anything and guys do what she wants. We both laughed at her. He started dating her and she commented on the fact that he wasn't doing any of the stuff that she was used to. He flat out told her that he wasn't going to do any of those things and that if she was unhappy about it, she could walk out of his life. From that point on, she did everything he said, no questions asked.

Even in my own experience, when you are nice to women, it makes them more prone to run you over. When you put your foot down, they like it - you are being a man. They want someone that knows how to take control when it's time. I think the issue is finding that happy medium between pleasing her, but not letting her run you over.

[SevenStar]

Ironically my ancestry is Native American - Finnish - Norwegian. My family was in Finland and were fisherman/sailors when the Russians attacked, captured them, and tried to force them into being sailors for the Czar.

They managed to escape, and fled to America.

The Native Americans were brutally oppressed, slaughtered, sent off to reservations, where a lot of them died of diseases and until the casinos, were extremely bad off economically.

So whenever blacks complain to me about oppression, I just go, "Okay, who in history was not oppressed?"

Basically, this is a very, very rare country where people have so many freedoms, and it could very easily flip on a dime back to the way it used to be.


mine is african american, native american, and.... german. I've been told that there is some french on my dad's side somewhere. (dangit, I'm gonna lose street cred again for admitting that one) Anyway, None of my living relatives, nor any of the deceased ones I had a chance to meet encountered this oppression, other than the civil rights issues several years ago. Like I said, until it happens to you, you tend not to take it personally. Now, if either my father, grandfather or great grandfather was a slave, I'm sure I'd have a completely different viewpoint. Racism, for example. I know several people who haven't experienced it, so they don't think twice about it. I've expereinced much of it since moving deeper into the south. They haven't had 10 year old kids calling them a N***** from their window, or had people lock their car doors as you approached them. They have never had people walk to the other side of the street so they wouldn't cross your path, etc. so naturally they see things differently than I do, or than my grandparents who couldn't p!ss in certain restrooms, were beaten and got sprayed by a hose connected to a fire hydrant.

[neilhytholt]

mine is african american, native american, and.... german. I've been told that there is some french on my dad's side somewhere. (dangit, I'm gonna lose street cred again for admitting that one) Anyway, None of my living relatives, nor any of the deceased ones I had a chance to meet encountered this oppression, other than the civil rights issues several years ago. Like I said, until it happens to you, you tend not to take it personally. Now, if either my father, grandfather or great grandfather was a slave, I'm sure I'd have a completely different viewpoint. Racism, for example. I know several people who haven't experienced it, so they don't think twice about it. I've expereinced much of it since moving deeper into the south. They haven't had 10 year old kids calling them a N***** from their window, or had people lock their car doors as you approached them. They have never had people walk to the other side of the street so they wouldn't cross your path, etc. so naturally they see things differently than I do, or than my grandparents who couldn't p!ss in certain restrooms, were beaten and got sprayed by a hose connected to a fire hydrant.

Actually, I might have some black in me as well because the older photos of my Cherokee relatives show them to be extremely dark with some curly hair.

But that's something my family doesn't talk very much about. LOL

Yeah, don't get me wrong. Oppression sucks. I haven't been much on the receiving end since I'm a cross-breed and don't look very native.

But when I went to the Native American Church, I got to hear from all the guys about their experiences, and man, they have it tough. Native Americans in California tend to hang out with the Hispanics because they blend in better and speak Spanish, but they face racism every day, which is a big pain for them. But they get racism even from the other Hispanics. They basically don't fit in anywhere.

Then, I had black friends in New York, and man, they get it from everywhere. Can't even go into a lot of businesses without people watching them like a hawk. Can't take the subway without people looking sideways at them. Not to mention driving around and getting pulled over by cops for no other reason than the color of their skin.

So, yes, oppression sucks, and it is prevalent even today.

[Water Dragon]

Bull. A woman can be a whole person without a man. A man can be a whole person without a woman. There is no "training" involved here. And I certainly don't see you mentioning or even implying that men should be "trained" to please their women. Just because she "runs into a man who knows how to care for her" she now has to be "trained to please him?" Excuse me while I vomit into my mouth a little here. There are lots of men out there who would "care for me" and a few good ones who have offered. Sorry, but I don't need care; I can take care of myself.

~~Jules

Go ahead and vomit Jules, because you're totally missing the point. I never said one sex was incomplete without the other. In fact, I think you should be a complete person before you even consider being with someone else. The opposite sex is there to compliment you, not complete you.

In fact, this last post from you proves my point. I'm trying to argue that both parties need to put in a lot fo work, you sound like you don't want to. And ya know what, you don't have to.

pleasing a man and caring for a woman are emotional terms, not physical. Do you understand the difference?

[Scott R. Brown]

You did miss it, because he has said it repeatedly. I'm not going through the entire ridiculous thread to find the few times that Neil has said--not implied, but said--that American women need to be brought up better because they are not pleasing enough to men, him in particular.

Do I take issue with that? You frigging bet I do.

~~Jules

Hi Jules,

I really feel sorry for you. You have some really deep anger issues towards men. I went back and carefully read the entire thread and what stands out most boldly is YOUR issues with men not Neil’s issues with women. You are hostile and angry while Neil is clearly ventilating and trying to figure things out. You misinterpreted his comments according to your own issues. Your own prejudices against men have colored your perception and your judgment. Neil is not a misogynist, you are a misanthropist!!

Here is what Neil wrote:

Post #8

I'm not a misogynist. I just don't think women in the U.S. are trained well.

Women in traditional cultures were trained to be nice to men. Women today are trained to be independent, in charge, etc.

So, personally, I don't mind too much women being independent or in charge. As long as they don't expect me to pay for them or put up with them nagging me about stuff.

It's a double-edged sword. They want to be the same as guys, then they get treated the same as guys.

This issue of yours about women being trained to PLEASE men is NO WHERE found here and neither is it found anywhere else in Neil’s posts. You made it up out of your own prejudiced views of men! Neil is suggesting that women learn how to behave appropriately here, that is “be nice”. Some how you went from “being trained [taught, educated, raised] to be nice” to “being trained [forced] to please men”! You projected everything yourself! It is YOUR issues with men that is the problem here, not Neil’s issues with women!

If you carefully and thoughtfully read what Neil wrote you will notice he expressed appreciation for independent women. How does a man who appreciates independent women also want them to be his slave? You have let your issues cloud your reason, because of this you are not thinking very clearly!


Now, lets look at your posts:

# 131 Jules

Oh whiiiine, whiiiine, moooooan, oh PITY ME, I got HURTED by a GIRL! So now they are all EVIL and need to be re-trained to my liking!

You don't hate women: you want them, but you're afraid of them because you know you're a weak-minded idiot and they always catch on, so you blame it on their "training."

Everyone's been hurt and screwed over. You get over it, or you don't. If you don't, you live your life decently anyway, or you ***** about how the opposite sex isn't "trained" right.

Here's my advice to you: Kill yourself. Seriously, the world is half women, you know? You're going to run into the terrible creatures every day of your life and it's going to be torturous for you. I seem to remember that you've got daughters, too. You're messing up their minds with your "women need to be TRAINED BETTER" mentality, so seriously, kill yourself. You'll be doing everyone a favor.

From the beginning you have been filled with hostility and venom. You show no understanding or insight into what Neil has said, no compassion, no thoughtfulness, no consideration! You attack from the beginning with more vitriol than Neil has ever expressed about women. Once again it is YOUR issues that are the problem here; your preconceived way of viewing men. The problem is YOU, not Neil, not men!

YOU are the one who wished he would kill himself. Neil has never expressed such hostility. YOU are the one who grossly and immaturely advised the men here to return to their circle jerk! YOU are the one who looks childish, YOU are behaving immaturely! YOU are the one with the biggest issues here!

No one here has responded to you with the same vitriol that you have expressed.

Once again, I am kindly taking the time to point out to you the hypocrisy of your attitude. If you are unable to face the truth of yourself then you cannot hope to resolve your issues. You are projecting onto men your resentment about them. The origins of this resentment are within yourself and does not come from men. You are not taking responsibility for yourself.

I am being direct with you for the sake of your own personal development. Your life will not benefit from your continued refusal to ignore and deny your clearly present issues with men. Your issues are yours to cherish or resolve, but don’t expect anyone to idly sit by and allow you to be rude and immature without consequence!

[Crushing Fist]

I really think that the "useful in fight" arguement is the stock and trade of the out of shape who feel that they need to defend their lack of physical prowess.


Kung Fu is not just about what's useful in a fight. It's about cultivation of skills and abilities.


You must be thinking of MMA.


I always have to chuckle when someone says that being a superior athlete is not useful in fight, or that conditioning is not that important, etc, etc.


Yeah.

Sure.





Personally I like women with anger issues...

especially those that train in martial arts.

that's hot.

and to seal the deal she like good music.

[neilhytholt]

I really think that the "useful in fight" arguement is the stock and trade of the out of shape who feel that they need to defend their lack of physical prowess.


Kung Fu is not just about what's useful in a fight. It's about cultivation of skills and abilities.


You must be thinking of MMA.


I always have to chuckle when someone says that being a superior athlete is not useful in fight, or that conditioning is not that important, etc, etc.


Yeah.

Sure.





Personally I like women with anger issues...

especially those that train in martial arts.

that's hot.

and to seal the deal she like good music.


No, seriously, they're mostly useless. Like we used to practice hurricane kicks a lot. The definition of a hurricane kick was you are facing forward. You jump into the air, turn around a complete 360 degrees executing a windmill kick first with one leg, then with the other leg, then end up facing forward again.

Chance of injury by inexperienced people? High. Ever used it in a fight? Nope.

Or TKD people. Nothing's better than waiting until TKD people throw some high kicks and nailing them in the groin or taking them off their feet.

Your example of doing a breakfall and then winding up in splits? Very common in Eagle Claw for nailing the groin.

How often does that really work to an experienced martial artist? Not very often because they will guard their groin. So that move just leaves you open to having your face bashed in.

Better to learn to do a breakfall, roll out of it, and get back up on your feet.

Those acrobatics IMHO just ain't useful.

[neilhytholt]

You know, Scott, you have quite a talent for expounding upon subjects in a well thought out and reasoned manner. It's much better when it's directed at somebody else than me. LOL

[Crushing Fist]

not useful in a fight...



but it was very effective at getting me some very good head from a busty british blond



useful enough for me ;)

[Scott R. Brown]

You know, Scott, you have quite a talent for expounding upon subjects in a well thought out and reasoned manner. It's much better when it's directed at somebody else than me. LOL

Hi Neil,

LOL!! Thank you for the compliment.

You are right I have laid into you a few times. I must say that in this thread you have explained yourself in depth and your tendency towards a negative attitude makes more sense now.

I agree with you, you seem to be experiencing a post traumatic condition right now. I myself have had life changing circumstances thrust upon me in the past as well. The circumstances were not exactly the same but I recognize the same reaction. I applaud your attempts to sort out your feelings and make sense of your new situation in life. I think you will work it all out in time. Try not to get too discouraged. It really is true when they say that time heals all wounds, but at some point you will need to decide to stop picking at them. If you don’t they will fester and grow and that is not healthy for you or your children. I have confidence you have the strength and wisdom to let them go when the time is right for you!

Good Luck!

[Faruq]

Sounds like you need to learn the Mystery Method or read Neil Strauss' "The Game". LOL.


Anyway, if I had to characterize what's happening, is that some men are wising up, and are refusing to marry women, or let women be in charge over them.

So I run now into a lot of single confused women, like the women at the table today. They want to be equals, but at the same time, they expect men to treat them like women used to be treated.

They can't find guys who are going to do that, or guys who live up to their huge standards, so they are single. They might date a little bit, but they can't find Mr. Right. Or Mr. Will Commit.

Since committing means essentially giving up a lot of your freedom and possible financial repurcussions, for what? So you can deal with a bossy lady and sleep with her when she feels like it?

So a lot of these women are single, and frustrated, and confused. I guess. Anyways, they hang around in cliques complaining about men a lot. LOL

[Faruq]

No, I think it might just be because we're in this country and this is where it occurred. We still see the effects of U.S. slavery in our communities, and saw every other culture that came here automatically accorded a higher status, instead of us all being equal. And as the vibrantly successful Jewish community commemorates the Holocaust, we remember the middle passage, U.S. slavery, the lynchings, how we were forbidden to educate ourselves and yet ridiculed for being ignorant, and the myriad of other practices that destroyed our families and started the cycle of disempowering attitudes that prevail in many households today. But if you notice, you guys were the ones that brought it up, not the Black guy this time.


Ironically my ancestry is Native American - Finnish - Norwegian. My family was in Finland and were fisherman/sailors when the Russians attacked, captured them, and tried to force them into being sailors for the Czar.

They managed to escape, and fled to America.

The Native Americans were brutally oppressed, slaughtered, sent off to reservations, where a lot of them died of diseases and until the casinos, were extremely bad off economically.

So whenever blacks complain to me about oppression, I just go, "Okay, who in history was not oppressed?"

Basically, this is a very, very rare country where people have so many freedoms, and it could very easily flip on a dime back to the way it used to be.

[golden arhat]

slip in words such as comittment
as they get more serious then u can introduce the whole MA thing to them
alternatively find a woman martial artist

[Faruq]

Snap! You sound as enlightened as your avatar would imply. That sounds facetious, I know. But what you stated does sound like good advice.

[Mr Punch]

but it was very effective at getting me some very good head from a busty british blondDare I say that this is probably not a rarity! :eek: :D


slip in words such as comittment Have you been watching Magnolia...? Slip in words like 'slip in'...! :cool: :rolleyes: :o

[Faruq]

Back to the original question. Is kung fu a strong woman deterrent? Probably not as strong deterrent as a small tongue and pe)n!s.