A little more E-Chuan test driving (video)

[Ray Pina]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJlZBo79tbI

[Pork Chop]

With that graphic at the end, felt like i was watching a snuff flick.

That cat in the first cut let you use elbows with no padding and no headgear? (nice elbows btw) ....man....

in my experience headgear's only good for preventing cuts, elbows are the king of creating cuts... elbows + no headgear = bad combination... especially if you're not even getting paid for the fight.

[Ray Pina]

I don't specifically use the elbow. I send out the whole thing... sometimes the fist lands, sometimes the forearm, sometimes the elbow, sometimes a combination of two or three.

The rules were "do your thing, respect the tap."

[Chief Fox]

I understand the "do your thing, respect the tap" rules but what if the guy looses an eye while you're doing your thing?

Now of course, I've only seen you fight from a few clips. Your style is very agressive and appears to be borderline out of control.

Don't get me wrong, the agressiveness works and overwhelms your opponents. You obviously have a lot of force and power but what I'm getting at is some of that force and power appears to be lost in the "overwhelm the opponent" tactic.

I'm just thinking that eventually, you're going to accidentally seriously hurt someone OR force someone to seriously hurt you.

Take this for what it's worth. I'm just a side line critic here. Just trying to give you some things to think about.

On a positive note, I really like and respect what you're doing.

[Mr. Horse]

I agree with Fox.

[Ray Pina]

I have recently come to this conclusion and decided to stop doing Throwdowns. I don't think it's fair. I'm training to fight at a competitive level, fighting to bring out a new style, collecting footage for a fight .... motivation alone gives me an advantage.

The last one I did was June 4th and I was honest, pretty much saying this but a BJJ guy said he was training for a fight as well, wanted to go hard so then I though, what the heck, I should do it for the experience.

But I've learned now... one, about coming with more control and two, keeping the fights to where and when they count.

However, I won't change that when I do fight it's all out. I don't like to "spar"... the intensity is never even. You take it easy and prevent the guy and then out of nowhere he pics it up and gets you with a cheap shot. It's only human. I understand it but it's happened enough times that with me, it's either all or nothing. With a training brother it's one thing. But I've sparred in the past and then guys talk. A fight is definitive. And I enter it know that somebody's going to not feel as good as when they started. I do my best that it's not me.

Fighting is not good. I know that. I just feel that I, at this place in time, have some fighting to do. I know this is what I have to be doing to get to the place I see in my mind's eye.

[Chief Fox]

I was watching that UFC marathon that was on last week. I think they aired the whole season right up to the live finale. As I was watching, my wife asks me, "why do you like this stuff so much?". I told her that "I think that it's the most true, pure and honest sport there is.".

In no other arena is it just one person against another with the only thing separating them being their skill in combat.

I totally respect anyone who enters that arena.

With that said. I'm not suggesting that you should "go light". I've been on the recieving end of one of those cheap shots you mention on more than one occasion. So I know that you have to take it to someone in order to protect yourself.

Maybe I'm not sure how to say this but what I would like to see you do is maybe take your time a bit more. Instead of just bum rushing the show, maybe be a little more paitient, find your spot and then UNLEASH THE FURY!

Of course, like I said earlier. I'm forming this opinion based on watching only a few clips. I'm sure they don't represent your fighting style as a whole.

Just some food for thought.

RESPECT

[Pork Chop]

However, I won't change that when I do fight it's all out. I don't like to "spar"... the intensity is never even. You take it easy and prevent the guy and then out of nowhere he pics it up and gets you with a cheap shot. It's only human. I understand it but it's happened enough times that with me, it's either all or nothing. With a training brother it's one thing. But I've sparred in the past and then guys talk. A fight is definitive. And I enter it know that somebody's going to not feel as good as when they started. I do my best that it's not me.


I'm in a similar boat.

Like you i feel that if I'm gonna get injured, I might as well get credit for it and do it in a "fight". I don't think killing yourself (and your partners) in the gym is a substitute for experience. I would rather fight more frequently & have some fights not go my way than have to be sidelined by injuries coz I tried to get more ring experience in the gym. I'm not afraid of getting my a$$ kicked i just hate the idea of getting injured in sparring and bein put out of training.

I dread sparring; especially with people i don't know and trust.
Seems smaller guys feel fully justified in taking those cheap shots and often the big guys really lack any sort of control. My favorite conversation that I seem to have way too often is: "coach said go light, so why are you winding back so far when you punch?".

In boxing sparring hard is one thing, coz generally in boxing you can go full bore (or close to it) without *too* much damage, assuming you're both wearing the right safety gear (well padded gloves 16+oz, w/headgear to prevent cuts), & have a coach around to keep an eye on things so nobody takes any unnecessary shots. You might get rocked a little, likely get a bloody nose, possibly break a bone - but probably nothing too serious.

When you add kicking and/or knees and/or elbows into the mix, it's not so easy to come out of the experience without serious injury. You could even "win" the sparring match and be laid up for weeks with a busted leg, a bum ankle, broken ribs, nasty lacerations, etc. The serious injuries are much more likely when you add the extra weapons , especially considering kicks generally do more damage.

On the other hand, i DO like getting my timing down & throwing some leather with people I trust.

My old gym used to play "the game"- where you strictly worked on timing and your form. you didn't really even need to connect- it was respectful. you would let a shot go if it connected because the rules of the game dictated that it wasn't about trading shots; much easier to accept something as an accident.

I really liked this method when it was kept in check & treated correctly. The only draw back is that people who didn't have experience going full out would constantly "toe the line" because they were self conscious over whether they could handle the real thing or not.

My new gym says they like to go hard; but they have the coach there to make sure someone doesn't get pounded on too hard by keeping aggressive fighters in check & slowing things down if there's an obvious disparity in skill.

I like this method and i hate it. I like the attention the coach pays, the advice he gives, i like knowing how it feels to try to generate some power & absorb some shots. I hate the fact that the rate of injury is inherently high. I took some kinda shot to the thigh last week and had a hard time walking for a few days. Last night I opted not to spar (just wasn't feeling it) and didn't regret it when someone got put out with a spinning heel kick to the jaw.

If I'm gonna get injured, at least let it count and go on my record. I've had this bad run over the last few years where any time i was seriously getting ready for the ring, i'd have to bow out due to injury. I'd been slugging it out against any and all comers in the gym; but i gotta be worried that i'm really just a pu$$y coz I had to bow out come fight time.

I will admit that a big reason for some of those earlier injuries is that I've been so worried about making a lower weight class, I put my body in a position where it was more likely to get injured. The older I get the more I realize that all the wear n tear is useless if I don't have something to show for it. Better to fight heavy, having only trained with light sparring; than to drop a ton of weight, kill yourself in the gym, and never fight at all due to injury.

I really do wish you luck with stepping it up. I think the only critics of the Throwdowns would really just like to see you get your experience against more worthy opponents, so you can get as good as you can be. You only get 1 body, make sure that the wear and tear you put on it counts. :)

[Ray Pina]

Instead of just bum rushing the show, maybe be a little more paitient, find your spot and then UNLEASH THE FURY!


I'll post some footage before the work week next Wed. which will show why I don't wait anymore. I waited to react off a Thai Boxer and that's one place you don't want to be one step behind.

At the same time, I got so frustrated that after I fought my way out I chased his retreat, got kicked off balanced and bounced off the rope into a nose breaker of a shot.

I'll post that whole thing. Got to post the good with the bad. Lessons about both, waiting and chasing, were learned that day .... the hard way.:(

[PhilDunlap]

Ray

Please don't take this as being critical but in watching those tapes it really is hard to see how ready you are for MMA in that truthfully the people that you were working with really did not seem prepared fro that level of contact.

It might be good to train with some guys with some fights under their belt as they are less inclined to be overwhelmed by an initial bullrush.. If you are interested I have a few guys getting ready for fights both Pro and amatuer and sparring partners who want to bang hard are difficult to find.

Phil

[Ray Pina]

Where are you located? If I can get there maybe in a week or two, by then my hand will be healed and I'll have time to recover for my fight.

I should mention those clips are from over a year ago.

[PhilDunlap]

Ray we are in Mahwah NJ -- Northern Bergen county right at the end of RT 17 before the NY Border. You are welcome anytime.

[PhilDunlap]

Ray we are in Mahwah NJ -- Northern Bergen county right at the end of RT 17 before the NY Border. You are welcome anytime.

[splinter]

Uh, all I see are surfing videos.

[Mr Punch]

That's a very good point.

I think it's one of his secret techniques... bum challenges him to fight, slacks off down the beach, minding his own business making out like he's training... doesn't take it seriously - then WHAM! Surfboard ****s him in the side of the head from out of nowhere. Very very effective.

But Ray's not showing us any more vids in case we really get teh d34d1y s3cr3t, eh Ray? :D

[FatherDog]

However, I won't change that when I do fight it's all out. I don't like to "spar"... the intensity is never even. You take it easy and prevent the guy and then out of nowhere he pics it up and gets you with a cheap shot. It's only human. I understand it but it's happened enough times that with me, it's either all or nothing. With a training brother it's one thing. But I've sparred in the past and then guys talk. A fight is definitive. And I enter it know that somebody's going to not feel as good as when they started. I do my best that it's not me.

Does your regular training involve sparring with your training brothers? Or, indeed, anyone?