Shaolin-do(JP) Sparring clips

[Judge Pen]

Here is the first of some various sparring clips that I'm going to post. It's the first round of a match that went three rounds (I eventually won this match and took third over-all in men's advanced sparring). The rules were promulgated under the CACMA. My opponent was an internal stylist and told me later that he fought mainly from his tai chi. Anyway, it's an example of me fighting in an open kung fu tournament (hosted by Oso) using what I was taught in shaolin-do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMZRBnEKL9s

[Pk_StyLeZ]

was this light contact?

[Judge Pen]

The rules were light contact to the head and moderate contact to the body. In an earlier match, someone had gotten hurt on a throw, so they became very conscious of throws that weren't cleanly executed.

And the hits were a lat harder than this film gives perspective on. We were both larger guys (I'm 6'1" 200lbs and he was about 5'10" 215lbs)--there was some power behind those in-close exchanges.

[Ralphie]

Good job. If this was full go, that kick before the first break might have K him tfo. That guy wanted to clinch so bad, but seeing his striking, I can see why. You punched well off the clinch, and had a nice knee. It was sweet when you were able just to unload with fast hands. Did he almost throw you in that one spot, or was it a stall, so they broke the action?

Things I saw that could be a problem:
1) The front leg looks like an easy target. Someone would test that a lot, if they liked to kick legs.
2) The stance took away from some of your lateral movement.
3) Because your somewhat sideways, someone could set up a shot (prolly a single leg) or lower back clinch. It's harder for you to get your hips back and move to sprawl or break the clinch at the angle you took. You generally punched the best and broke his high clinch when you squared your hips forward and got both elbows framed out in front of you. You kneed him when you had him in a nice clinch and his hips sideways to you.
4) You dropped your guard a lot, watch for a hook.

Props!

[ninthdrunk]

JP - It's hard to tell what moves you're using on the video. Any comments on particular applications from forms, or is this just Shaolin Do sparring ala Master Mullins' camp?

If there are some specific applications, would you point them out for us?

Nice hands, man.


Tai chi, huh?

[David Jamieson]

constructive criticism.

look at your target. Hand follows eye.
move in, pick your targets and go. there was to much clash and not enough taking advantage of position in that range.

train more fire and return drills to sharpen target aquisition and speed to target.
footwork needs a lot of work.

move and sink move and sink, that is important, if you are too high and too close together in yoru step, you are unstable.

keep teh chin down.

spar more to level out on the flinching.

a lot of opportunities to cut power and move in that were not taken.

you can still have good form and dominate a fight even when it is light contact sparring.

a few boxing drills wouldn't hurt either of those guys.

[BoulderDawg]

Does your Shao-lin Do school advocate competition?

I know it is writen in my manual that if you are looking to compete then chose another school.

[Ralphie]

Boulderdawg,
If you ever want to train at a school that competes, look here bjjboulder.com. It's a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu school, and it's not required that you do compete, but it's there if you want it. There are some groups that train mma there as well, but most of those guys have been involved in the sport for a while. If you're happy where you're at, disregard.

[ninthdrunk]

Boulderdawg,

What manual says that? I know there's the quote that "advises" students to seek tournament training elsewhere. That's not quite the same as a teacher saying, "no, you can't be a part of this school if you compete in outside tournaments."

From what I've seen, all SD teachers allow outside competition, it's just the students who don't seek it out.

[Judge Pen]

Good job. If this was full go, that kick before the first break might have K him tfo. That guy wanted to clinch so bad, but seeing his striking, I can see why. You punched well off the clinch, and had a nice knee. It was sweet when you were able just to unload with fast hands. Did he almost throw you in that one spot, or was it a stall, so they broke the action?

Things I saw that could be a problem:
1) The front leg looks like an easy target. Someone would test that a lot, if they liked to kick legs.
2) The stance took away from some of your lateral movement.
3) Because your somewhat sideways, someone could set up a shot (prolly a single leg) or lower back clinch. It's harder for you to get your hips back and move to sprawl or break the clinch at the angle you took. You generally punched the best and broke his high clinch when you squared your hips forward and got both elbows framed out in front of you. You kneed him when you had him in a nice clinch and his hips sideways to you.
4) You dropped your guard a lot, watch for a hook.

Props!

Thanks for the critiques. The guy was very strong and his clinching did sap a lot of energy (I ended up fighting him 5 rounds that day) I was happy to jam up his attempts to throw.

BoulderDawg: My school has no problem with me going and crossing hands with whomever. Seriously, if they did, then I would be afraid that they were hiding something.

9th-drunk--I had been really working on 5 animal form and Tiger-crane which lots of hands and upper-cut techniques which did come natually in the clinch even though I don't fight many people that activly try to clinch and throw (and the knees against the clinch are in our Tiger-Crane. My sparring partners are limited and this guy's technique was very different than what I was used to fighting, so I was glad that even though I could stand to improve a lot that I adapted on the spot and still did well by avoiding his throws. Of course, as I became fatigued later in the day some more of my sparring weaknesses reared their head.

[BoulderDawg]

The exact quote is:

"If your primary interest is tournament skills, I advise you to seek your training elsewhere!"

Grandmaster Sin Kwang The

*******

That's fairly straight forward and if I was interested in competing I would find a find a school that would help me in that reguard.

[tattooedmonk]

I have nothing to say other than this.... you did a good job!! I could see your shaolin spirit, you held yourself well, and it takes a great deal of balls to post that good or bad....

It is very difficult to spar with the pads and protective equipment on because they create a considerable amount of resistance and restrict your range of motion... so it should be understood that seeing any type of technique other that basic strategems,punching ,kicking, knees, and elbows is to be expected....

Do you wear protective gear sparring within your school??? How often do you spar?

You said something about throws and that someone got hurt... were throws, takes downs, and sweeps allowed or was this mostly a striking competetion??? and I noticed that they discouraged the clintch...was chi na/ grappling allowed?? and was there any ground work involved in any capacity??

I am asking these things for a specific reason because I would have commented on it to a greater extent but considering that I do not know you or your backround I felt that it could be viewed as judgemental and /or disrespectful ...so I did not...

If you want to ask me for advice or to critic it I will... but I figured I should get some of the specifics and get to know you first before I come to any conclusions...

I have a few other questions but I will wait to see your reponses to these before I ask..once again good job!!

[BentMonk]

The exact quote is:

"If your primary interest is tournament skills, I advise you to seek your training elsewhere!"

Grandmaster Sin Kwang The

*******

That's fairly straight forward and if I was interested in competing I would find a find a school that would help me in that reguard.

Dude, the only thing that's straight forward is GM Sin saying that the "primary" focus of Shaolin Do is not tournament skills. Any match that has any rules, and uses any protective gear is a sporting event, not a fight. As everyone knows there are no rules in a fight. JP posts a clip of himself winning a match, and all you can do is make a comment about a quote in a training manual? Where's the positive commentary? Where's the constructive criticism? Where's the, way to go JP for having the stones to post yourself for public scrutiny?

Great job JP. However, you are still no match for my Bent style! BWAHAHAHA! :D

[John Many Jars]

JP - I'm a long time lurker (little over a year) and have been waiting to see this since you first mentioned it.

It took me about 10 viewings, trying to figure out how you could have possibly won that match, to realize you weren't the guy in the short sleeves. Then it all made sense. Great job.

I really liked how once in clinching range, you stayed there and kept the punches (and knee) coming. It seems to have thwarted many of his attempts to grab a hold of you.

Thanks for posting the video. Looking forward to more of them. =)


BoulderDawg - I'm at the Denver school and what ninthdrunk said is correct. Since I've been here it's never been encouraged but at the same time never discouraged. There are some students, I'm sure, who think we do enough training that there's no need to test what we've learned outside of class but it's my opinion that to make the most of this art (or any for that matter) crossing hands w/ people of different styles is very important. You might be surprised how much it will change your approach to training. Just my opinion.

[Judge Pen]

Here's the second clip. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4_3SYj41U0

This guy was freaky flexible, but he often gave up balance and position for a leg-technique. I won this round but lost the match (I think that I should have won the 2nd round too, but hey-that's the breaks right.) I was humbled a bit at the end of th e match in that I got a bit over-confident and the scissor take-down caught me off gurad, but I hit the ground kicking. He won first place in the tournament in fighting.

TM: We don't usually spar with the equipment in our school. Occassionally, but not regularly. It makes a difference, but that's not an excuse--you adapt.
As for the rules, yes, sweeps, throws, clinching were allowed. They gave you 3 to 5 seconds in the clinch before they broke you up. Chin-na was not allowed nor was ground work. As for being critical, that's fine. I expect it by putting it up here. I take it with a grain of salt--good advice is good advice, but I also understand there's going to be a lot of key-board critcs that aren't posting but just talking. Such is the KFO experience.

[B-Rad]

Haha, yeah liked the little kick you tried giving him after he took you down! Not sure if it was legal, but it showed some spirit ;)

[MasterKiller]

Here's the second clip. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4_3SYj41U0. That guy looks like nothing but a point fighter. Stupid stance. Stupid show boat antics. I wish you would have pounded his **** into the dirt.:mad:

[BoulderDawg]

All I'm saying is that if I was interested in competition I would find a school that was geared towards that goal.

Doesn't that make sense?

[Judge Pen]

That guy looks like nothing but a point fighter. Stupid stance. Stupid show boat antics. I wish you would have pounded his **** into the dirt.:mad:

Yeah, he fought like a TKD point fighter, but he said he was shaolin (you know how that goes). They stopped it everytime he went to the ground.

[SanHeChuan]

I agree with Masterkiller, dude in the red pants should not have won. :cool:

At the black belt level, I feel that these competitions should involve more thought and strategy than physical one-ups-man-ship. It has been my experiance that my opponents and I are on fairly equally terms as far as skill and physical ability, so if we match those things, the win would go to whom ever was having the better day. I want a more convincing win than that, which is why I prefer all the bad calls to go against me. That way if I win I know it was because I was better rather than lucky. Now I am focusing not on speed, flexibility and strength, but maneuver, timing, and strategy. I mean to make my fighting look effortless.

Accordingly what I would have liked to have seen from you is more movement and finesse. You came in and stood toe to toe with ole’ tai chi guy. You did it well, but that won’t work in a fight with someone whose bigger, stronger, faster. What then, what’s plan B, run?

Way to follow red pants to the floor punching all the way. I don’t know about the other rounds but you made him look like a punk in that first one. Good job.

Looked like fun maybe I’ll make it to Oso’s next one. When is it?

Oh and your stance is classic point sparring, which may or may not of been appropriate for the venue depending on the rules. I would have gone with a more square stance my self.

[Ralphie]

If they would have allowed striking on the ground, that guy would also have been hurtin'. I don't really see how you could have lost :confused: I mean, minus the leg scissor, you dominated that guy.

Lower back clinch+knee block. You would have made him cry. The one big thing I can say about that fight, is you brought it down a notch. Did you feel like you hit as hard as in the other match?

[John Many Jars]

IMHO, JP came out on top from the leg scissors. The other guy didn't seem to even attempt a finishing move whereas JP was kicking him w/ his heel.

I know it's easier said than done, especially w/ somebody as slippery as this guy seemed to be but IMO the times you really had him was when you got off of his center line and moved in from a different angle. Did I just repeat what SanHeChuan wrote?


Looks good. Thanks for posting it.

*edit*

I seem to have also repeated what B-rad wrote as well. Now you see why I was a lurker for so long.

[Judge Pen]

This was the first round out of three. I won this round. I think I should have won the second round (which I'll post later). I do think he won the third round. He changed his strategy somewhat and did incorporate more hands once I slipped past his leg. Now most of his handswere over-the-top smacking which were annoying (and with his loger fingernails hurt a little bit on the top of the head). Also he became aware that I would absorb and shed his side and round-house kicks, so he started incorpating more hook kicks. I tried to move insdie of them to take any power off of them (I never was squarely hit with one) but he did adapt to what I was trying to do to him.



Oh and your stance is classic point sparring, which may or may not of been appropriate for the venue depending on the rules. I would have gone with a more square stance my self.


SHC: My stance is mixed. I do fight with one side forward, but my front leg is pointed tworad the opponeent and my hips are open. For me it allows me to quickly open of close my hips and shift my weight (you can see this in the second fight as I'mclosing the door to his jabbing side and round-house kicks.) Trust me, I don't have the physicality to effectivley fight point-sparring style.


Accordingly what I would have liked to have seen from you is more movement and finesse. You came in and stood toe to toe with ole’ tai chi guy. You did it well, but that won’t work in a fight with someone whose bigger, stronger, faster. What then, what’s plan B, run?



As for my strategy, I feel that in most encounters that I'm an effective enough counter-puncher and kicker to quickly gain the advantage if we wern't dealing with rules and pads, but, to answer your point, if running ment surviving, then yes it is an effective an dintelligent strategy if the opportunity is there. If its a street encounter-then if I survive (relatviely un-harmed) then I've won.

[Judge Pen]

If they would have allowed striking on the ground, that guy would also have been hurtin'. I don't really see how you could have lost :confused: I mean, minus the leg scissor, you dominated that guy.

Lower back clinch+knee block. You would have made him cry. The one big thing I can say about that fight, is you brought it down a notch. Did you feel like you hit as hard as in the other match?



I know it's easier said than done, especially w/ somebody as slippery as this guy seemed to be but IMO the times you really had him was when you got off of his center line and moved in from a different angle. Did I just repeat what SanHeChuan wrote?


I don't think that I brought it down a notch when I fought this guy. On the contrary, I think I fought a lot smarter. I watched this guy warm-up and he threw a 540 degree tornado kick where he still landed on his kicking leg. I watched him dismatle a very good mantis guy who was a physcially gifted fighter. I knew I didnt' want to give this guy and room to get his feet working. When I did hit him, I feel I hit him as hard as the rules allowed and that my techniques were clean. My strategy was to force him to try to go high which would allow me to move-off center on the slight angle and get inside his leg. It worked well. What was frusterating was the guy would either fall to the ground or dive out-of-bounds which limited any real combonations or follow-through. Everytime he did, the judge called a break. In a different venue I feel I would have owned this guy. For the rules in place, he fought a smart match that played to his strengths.

Tournament sparring, no matter what the rules are, is a game.

[godzillakungfu]

Boulderdawg,

What manual says that? I know there's the quote that "advises" students to seek tournament training elsewhere. That's not quite the same as a teacher saying, "no, you can't be a part of this school if you compete in outside tournaments."

From what I've seen, all SD teachers allow outside competition, it's just the students who don't seek it out. A few people compete occasionally. It is frowned upon in the West. If you do compete they want you to divorce yourself from the school. No names, uniforms, or shirts, that say Chinese Shao-Lin Center.

Nice Job JP.

More head movement, a steady target is an easier target to hit.
Close your stance a bit it seems, (not seeing it in person) looks a little wide.
I'll wait to see the other rounds. There are a couple things I would do different but, the first round is always the testing round.


Much easier to critique when I haven't experienced the rules.

[ninthdrunk]

That's kinda funny they don't let y'all compete. I guess that mentallity really adds to the fire of some around here. I can hear them now, "Why don't they want you to compete? What are they hiding?" That kinda crap.


JP - that makes sense. Five animals is definitely great for hand speed and combinations. That also makes sense why you were constantly moving in on him as you struck.

hehehe....if that knee were really from tiger crane, you would have killed him, man! should have jumped in there real good and let him have it with the knee...that would have been a tiger crane knee! :p

[BentMonk]

"A few people compete occasionally. It is frowned upon in the West. If you do compete they want you to divorce yourself from the school. No names, uniforms, or shirts, that say Chinese Shao-Lin Center."

What a crock! This is staright up NOT what GM Sin has ever wanted. He wants everyone to know and respect SD. What is the purpose behind this narrow minded BS? Recently a MMA event was held in Louisville. A student under Senior Master Gary Mullins walked to the ring wearing his SD shirt, took it off and promptly dismantled his opponent using only the skills he learned in SD. The last time I heard GM Sin address a very large body of SD students, he spoke of making SD more known and respected everywhere. Why would any student of GM Sin go so blatantly against his wishes as the above quote shows they have? IMO that is a slap in GM Sin's face. The Shao-Lin Center "in the West" would not exist without GM Sin. Why would you want to perpetuate the assumptions made by so many about SD? Crossing hands with other MAs offers nothing but growth for both parties. What possible reason could any teacher have for discouraging the growth of their students? Win lose, or draw any time different arts cross hands it brings respect to both. To hide from such good things makes no sense. This closed minded, secretive crap is "frowned upon" here in the South.

[Judge Pen]

Recently a MMA event was held in Louisville. A student under Senior Master Gary Mullins walked to the ring wearing his SD shirt, took it off and promptly dismantled his opponent using only the skills he learned in SD. That guy is a beast. Him and his brother both are excellent fighters. Do you know if anyone got that on video?

[BentMonk]

A friend who attended the event in person also purchased the DVD. I'll see if I can get you a copy. It's a great match and you are correct, that guy is a beast. :D

[godzillakungfu]

"A few people compete occasionally. It is frowned upon in the West. If you do compete they want you to divorce yourself from the school. No names, uniforms, or shirts, that say Chinese Shao-Lin Center."

What a crock! This is staright up NOT what GM Sin has ever wanted. He wants everyone to know and respect SD. What is the purpose behind this narrow minded BS? Recently a MMA event was held in Louisville. A student under Senior Master Gary Mullins walked to the ring wearing his SD shirt, took it off and promptly dismantled his opponent using only the skills he learned in SD. The last time I heard GM Sin address a very large body of SD students, he spoke of making SD more known and respected everywhere. Why would any student of GM Sin go so blatantly against his wishes as the above quote shows they have? IMO that is a slap in GM Sin's face. The Shao-Lin Center "in the West" would not exist without GM Sin. Why would you want to perpetuate the assumptions made by so many about SD? Crossing hands with other MAs offers nothing but growth for both parties. What possible reason could any teacher have for discouraging the growth of their students? Win lose, or draw any time different arts cross hands it brings respect to both. To hide from such good things makes no sense. This closed minded, secretive crap is "frowned upon" here in the South.
Take a deep breath. Some of us do not believe this in the slightest. Yet, when you get tied up in rank and respect what happens?

You tow the company line. I've seen the fight. If it is the one I'm thinking it is on you tube.

[Judge Pen]

Take a deep breath. Some of us do not believe this in the slightest. Yet, when you get tied up in rank and respect what happens?

You tow the company line. I've seen the fight. If it is the one I'm thinking it is on you tube.


I think that's a different guy.

[godzillakungfu]

What was the date of the fight?

[BentMonk]

GKF- Yes that was a rant. It's good to know you don't subscribe to the "company line". I still have trouble understanding why some teachers in SD have that attitude when it is the exact opposite of what GM Sin wants. As I said I feel it's disrespectful to him. If these same teachers were as "tied up in rank and respect" as they expect their students to be, they would not blatantly disrespect their teacher. JMO

Now before this thread gets jacked...

JP you kicked major ass. As MK said that guy was showboating and being silly. Your heel to his face after the scissor sweep was great. You should have won, but as you said, "that's how it goes."

[Judge Pen]

GKF- Yes that was a rant. It's good to know you don't subscribe to the "company line". I still have trouble understanding why some teachers in SD have that attitude when it is the exact opposite of what GM Sin wants. As I said I feel it's disrespectful to him. If these same teachers were as "tied up in rank and respect" as they expect their students to be, they would not blatantly disrespect their teacher. JMO

Now before this thread gets jacked...

JP you kicked major ass. As MK said that guy was showboating and being silly. Your heel to his face after the scissor sweep was great. You should have won, but as you said, "that's how it goes."

That was the round I won. I haven't posted the rounds I lost. I'm having "technical difficulties" so it may be a while before I get back to posting the other rounds. He adapted a lot the next two rounds. BTW, yu shan was one of the judges on the corner.

[Radhnoti]

Great job JP.

Not to drag this thread OT...

When the SD school I was a part of had set aside a special night for instructors from other styles to come in and give us a perspective on their art, we were told to stop immediately. Also, when my old instructor asked permission to do presentations with other local instructors he was told not to show in public any legitimate material. He ended up doing Tai Chi 24 since it's so universal and really no one could argue it's "secret" material. Both instructions were passed down from a Master, my instructor was a 3rd black.
I DO understand that some aikido guy co-opted a bit of the SD material for his school...but every SD instructor I was exposed to, some Masters, stressed a secretiveness with the material and an exclusivity with their school/style.

Bent Monk - "This closed minded, secretive crap is "frowned upon" here in the South."

I'm further south than you are BM. :D

[Golden Tiger]

Rad,

I am aware of that stuff but I would like say that it is not "standard policy". There are those out there that are a tad high and mighty about keeping everything secret and if you find one like that, I would reccomend that you go else were. But as far as showing things, all the demos we have contain what we would consider the high level "secret" stuff, un cut, un edited.



my instructor was a 3rd black.

I saw where he was promoted to 6th or somewhere close not to long ago. Send him congrats from GT (seeing that I was banned from his site for some reason).

[Radhnoti]

GT, the board crashed and he's just now getting around to putting it back up, the http is different now if you haven't gone from Bryan's home page. I've just today re-joined his board myself. He's been named a coach (and I think he's competing) at the World Games (a qualifier for the Good Will Games) in Hawaii. Which shocks the heck out of me, he never really seemed to like that sort of thing. I think it's tied in with the certification you alluded to in your post. He did join an organization and based on his performance...which included video tapes of him teaching his own system, a panel of judges that tested him in person up in Ohio on forms/general martial knowledge, etc....and including his time studying... they ranked him 6th in his own system. Which cracks me up. How many folks to you know that look to certify themselves in their own system/creation. My understanding is that it was a 3+ year process to be certified, pretty much when he let the SD material go to teach his own thing he got in contact with them. He was flattered they ranked him 6th...but I don't think I've heard him mention it beyond the articles that organization put into the papers of all the surrounding towns.

GT - "I am aware of that stuff but I would like say that it is not "standard policy"."

You may be right. I can only speak of my specific experience with any authority, though I do know of others I've spoken to across the country (TWS obviously comes to mind as he was accused of being an Ng family spy) who indicate they've had similar experiences. Hey, it's Chinese martial arts, right? There's supposed to be "closed" door stuff and secret techniques. :D

[SanHeChuan]

Originally Posted by Judge Pen
As for my strategy, I feel that in most encounters that I'm an effective enough counter-puncher and kicker to quickly gain the advantage if we wern't dealing with rules and pads, but, to answer your point, if running ment surviving, then yes it is an effective an dintelligent strategy if the opportunity is there. If its a street encounter-then if I survive (relatviely un-harmed) then I've won.

What if he could run faster than you too? The point I was trying to make is that not all your weapons are physical. When two opponents are matched equally or greater than you, you have to use your mind to find victory.

Your strategy in the first match was to move straight in and use your superior physical abilities to over come. It looked like you were trying to use your reach where Mr. Tai Chi would close in for the throw. Your reaction then was to throw chain punches. Superior force is not the kind of strategy I'm looking for.


Originally Posted by Judge Pen Now most of his handswere over-the-top smacking which were annoying (and with his loger fingernails hurt a little bit on the top of the head). Also he became aware that I would absorb and shed his side and round-house kicks, so he started incorpating more hook kicks. I tried to move insdie of them to take any power off of them (I never was squarely hit with one) but he did adapt to what I was trying to do to him.

This was a little more of what I wanted to see, which is why I was mostly commenting on the first clip. It was just easier to read the first match. Your quote tells me you were reading your opponent, and looking to figuratively "side step" his attacks. "Absorbing" while it can be effective, all it really means is that he caught you before you could move out of the way or deflect.

I wanted to see you read, predict, maneuver, and counter.
"Locate, close with, and destroy through fire and maneuver" ;)

Deny (Guard), Detect (Read), Deception (Draw out) ;) ;)

Deny (Guard), First you Identify your weaknesses, etc.
Detect (Read), Then you Identify his, etc.
Both of which to include, but not limited to: Guard, Stance, Rhythm, Timing, Predictability of attack, etc.
Deception (Draw out) Leave your self open, so that he can attack you in a predictable way, etc.

Knowing when, where, and how he will attack will allow you to move out of the way and counter with little effort. You don't have to use Superior force if you understand yourself and your opponent.

故曰：知彼知己，百戰不殆；不知彼而知己，一勝一負；不知彼，不知己，每戰必敗
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle. - Sun Tzu

or :p

知己知彼, 百戰百勝
If you know both yourself and your enemy, you will come out of one hundred battles with one hundred victories.

I'm not saying by any means that you fought poorly. I'm just saying these are things you can think and improve on. These are principals I'm currently trying to teach, so there may be a bit of projecting going on my part. :o

[tattooedmonk]

"A few people compete occasionally. It is frowned upon in the West. If you do compete they want you to divorce yourself from the school. No names, uniforms, or shirts, that say Chinese Shao-Lin Center."

What a crock! This is staright up NOT what GM Sin has ever wanted. He wants everyone to know and respect SD. What is the purpose behind this narrow minded BS? Recently a MMA event was held in Louisville. A student under Senior Master Gary Mullins walked to the ring wearing his SD shirt, took it off and promptly dismantled his opponent using only the skills he learned in SD. The last time I heard GM Sin address a very large body of SD students, he spoke of making SD more known and respected everywhere. Why would any student of GM Sin go so blatantly against his wishes as the above quote shows they have? IMO that is a slap in GM Sin's face. The Shao-Lin Center "in the West" would not exist without GM Sin. Why would you want to perpetuate the assumptions made by so many about SD? Crossing hands with other MAs offers nothing but growth for both parties. What possible reason could any teacher have for discouraging the growth of their students? Win lose, or draw any time different arts cross hands it brings respect to both. To hide from such good things makes no sense. This closed minded, secretive crap is "frowned upon" here in the South.hahahah

This is how I felt and still feel...I did a tournament back in '95 and caught alot of bullshido for it ....

and the funny thing is that my master at the time ( Brian Devor ) actually did not mind at all.....

..... in addition a few years later he let a small group of us go to san diego ( UCSD)(a Shaolin Do event )to learn the the GreanDragon Broadsword form and the White ape steals the peach ....... he and I (as well as anyone who went)got a bunch of bullshido about it.... mostly because the Soards and their group in Denver/Boulder did not get to see it first .....whhhhhaaaan whhhhhaaan whhhhaaaan ( **** politics).....they even gave GM Sin a bunch of bullshido for inviting us and teaching it to us( who's system is this anyways???)

Back in like '92 -'93 my first instructor use to invite other schools in for sparring as well as teach seminars ( judo master for down and ground) and Tae Kwon Do for punching and kicking class mostly kicking...)..it was fun and everyone got something out of it...what was even more fun was watching our blues and yellows mix it up with brown belts from these other styles and actually dominate... as well as our greens, browns mixing it up and dominating blackbelts ....Is this not how Shaolin of old did things??? Can this be bad for the schools???

....the mind set and the line of thinking in the west coast CSC's is just ass backwards...Hell anyone affiliated with CSC's can not even join SDA...what kind of bullshido is that??

You all know what causes this type of thinking and belief ....FEAR!! ...and why are they afraid?? because of the schools lack of a true functional philosophy and a lack of openmindedness to anything other than what they think and believe...

if you have your own Ideas and/or think for yourself you will get stripped of rank and will be kicked out of the system...

you will continue to hear me vent things like this from time to time..... hope you do not mind too much. I will keep it to a minimum......

[godzillakungfu]

Ha HA HA if you only knew the whole truth. Guess who was a memeber of the SDA??:eek:

[tattooedmonk]

Ha HA HA if you only knew the whole truth. Guess who was a memeber of the SDA??:eek:enlighten me...

....uuuhhhh you!!?!? hahaha not surprising ...I know many people did ...probably still do...

[BoulderDawg]

But I've noticed a lot of the SD cloak and dagger secret stuff too. The first night I was there I casually asked a black belt "Does this school participate in competition?"....The guy seemed offended at the suggestion.

Also I've noticed the secret nature of some of the training. A few people are reluctant to work with you on forms unless it's been cleared by the master and don't even ask to share notes on a form.....GOD FORBID!!!!!:D

Personally I'm fairly laid back about it and have worked on forms outside of class. However I know if these comments got out to the wrong people I would be in some hot water........Especially since GM Sin The is coming to town later this month.

All that said I think the training is top notch and I'm very pleased with it. I don't know why the security is so tight!:cool: But I do respect it.

[Judge Pen]

What if he could run faster than you too? The point I was trying to make is that not all your weapons are physical. When two opponents are matched equally or greater than you, you have to use your mind to find victory.

Your strategy in the first match was to move straight in and use your superior physical abilities to over come. It looked like you were trying to use your reach where Mr. Tai Chi would close in for the throw. Your reaction then was to throw chain punches. Superior force is not the kind of strategy I'm looking for.



But I don't think I was physically more gifted then the first fighter. I figured out, in the first exchange, that I was the better striker. So I feel its a bit presumptious for you to assume that I displayed poor strategy. If I know that my opponent is weaker than me in one area, and I exploit it to my advantage, did I not fight with an integrated mind and body? I mean, everyone has a plan until they get hit. Soliders have strategy until the first shot is fired.

And my style is to counter--to take an attack and work off of it to my advantage. Obviously I can improve, but what I do works well enough. Besides, its easy to be critical of someone else. I'd love to see you post a clip of you doing what you are advocating.

I wish you well in your path. Its easier to talk about an ideal than to live it.

[Judge Pen]

But I've noticed a lot of the SD cloak and dagger secret stuff too. The first night I was there I casually asked a black belt "Does this school participate in competition?"....The guy seemed offended at the suggestion.

Also I've noticed the secret nature of some of the training. A few people are reluctant to work with you on forms unless it's been cleared by the master and don't even ask to share notes on a form.....GOD FORBID!!!!!:D

Personally I'm fairly laid back about it and have worked on forms outside of class. However I know if these comments got out to the wrong people I would be in some hot water........Especially since GM Sin The is coming to town later this month.

All that said I think the training is top notch and I'm very pleased with it. I don't know why the security is so tight!:cool: But I do respect it.

It shouldn't be that way (bs secretive). It's bad karma. I'll work with and teach anyone that wants to learn from me. Many of them go on to be better than me. I'm proud of that.

[tattooedmonk]

It shouldn't be that way (bs secretive). It's bad karma. I'll work with and teach anyone that wants to learn from me. Many of them go on to be better than me. I'm proud of that. as they should!!

[SanHeChuan]

Originally Posted by Judge Pen
But I don't think I was physically more gifted then the first fighter. I figured out, in the first exchange, that I was the better striker. So I feel its a bit presumptuous for you to assume that I displayed poor strategy. If I know that my opponent is weaker than me in one area, and I exploit it to my advantage, did I not fight with an integrated mind and body? I mean, everyone has a plan until they get hit. Soldiers have strategy until the first shot is fired.

And my style is to counter--to take an attack and work off of it to my advantage. Obviously I can improve, but what I do works well enough. Besides, its easy to be critical of someone else. I'd love to see you post a clip of you doing what you are advocating.

I wish you well in your path. Its easier to talk about an ideal than to live it.

I didn't say your strategy was poor, well I don't think I did. I didn't say you were physically more gifted either. I said your strategy was based on pitting force against force. While that strategy might work while you are physically equal or greater than your opponent, It wouldn't work if you were physically inferior to your opponent. I was merely suggesting a better way, and if I was criticizing I believe it was constructive.

I do remember a camera being at my last tournament, I'll look into. If not maybe I'll see you at Oso's next. Either way, you'd only see me attempting said strategy, successfully execution (like you said) is another matter. ;)


Originally Posted by Judge Pen
Soldiers have strategy until the first shot is fired. Erroneous! :D

[Leto]

I never understood the whole "not working on forms with other students or anyone else" thing. I can understand them not wanting a student to be teaching a form that they just learned themselves, to other students who haven't learned the form yet. But a group of students who all learned a form together should be able to practice it whenever they want. How else do they expect anyone to remember it, after spending only one day learning it? In Colorado Springs we worked on forms together all the time, the teacher encouraged it. It was weird when we went to a couple of the other schools, and asked some people if they wanted to work on eagle claw, or five animals, or whatever, and they acted like we'd be excommunicated or something for suggesting it. What was that all about? Many things bugged me greatly about the whole system, the politics, etc. I ignored all that stuff as much as I could. I loved the people I met, many good attitudes and sincerity in training, not really any ego or competitiveness. Sort of a kung fu family. The only time I experienced the teaching of the Soards was a couple times a year during festivals or tests in Boulder or Denver, so I don't know what it was like attending school up there, or anywhere else.
Personally, I would be happy to work with anyone, sharing anything I know. If anyone ends up near Boise and wants to practice informally, let me know. :)

[John Many Jars]

But I've noticed a lot of the SD cloak and dagger secret stuff too. The first night I was there I casually asked a black belt "Does this school participate in competition?"....The guy seemed offended at the suggestion.

Also I've noticed the secret nature of some of the training. A few people are reluctant to work with you on forms unless it's been cleared by the master and don't even ask to share notes on a form.....GOD FORBID!!!!!:D

Personally I'm fairly laid back about it and have worked on forms outside of class. However I know if these comments got out to the wrong people I would be in some hot water........Especially since GM Sin The is coming to town later this month.

All that said I think the training is top notch and I'm very pleased with it. I don't know why the security is so tight!:cool: But I do respect it.


That's odd. I've never come across anything like that before. Before class, after class, practice hour, at the park or somebody's house.....we've never had a problem. =\

One of the few times it would be an issue is if you haven't seen the form before. Usually what happens is if you need a form for advancement and it won't be shown for another year, they'll set you up w/ a blackbelt who knows the form and they will teach it to you. But that's just so it's taught correctly.

The other time is if it's material taught at a festival you didn't attend. With that one, I think you have to pay to play. Which I can understand.


I did see somebody get busted for it once though. A very exuberant 1st black would watch people practicing 2nd black material then go out back and memorize it. He even got so far as to practice w/ some of the 2nd blacks. It was kind of funny but I still felt bad for the guy.

[John Many Jars]

[QUOTE=Leto]But a group of students who all learned a form together should be able to practice it whenever they want. How else do they expect anyone to remember it, after spending only one day learning it?QUOTE]

There has to be more to the story. I really can't imagine that happening. :confused:

[Leto]

I think Albuquerque is the place I'm thinking of mostly, where students wouldn't practice any of the past festival forms because they said it was against the rules. I've been down there a few times, for festivals and whatnot. But that was a few years ago, so I don't know what's going on now in CSC-land. Maybe I'll pop into Master Keller's school here in Boise someday, when I have enough money.

[Judge Pen]

The only limitation we have is to not give a student a video of material they haven't learned yet as some have tried to learn from the video only. If you are going to learn material, you should learn it from a teacher that understands the material and can work with you.

I've never had any involvement with the CSC so I don't know or understand their politics.

[Golden Tiger]

I've never had any involvement with the CSC so I don't know or understand their politics.

From all indications, its worse that ours:eek:


students wouldn't practice any of the past festival forms because they said it was against the rules.

I think the general idea is that when M. Sin first started this new seminar format, teachers that attended were not to re-teach it for one year to encourage the students to come out and learn it with M. Sin. Now for a fact, I know that rule is bent and broken quite often so it must just be that the ones you train with took it to heart.



A very exuberant 1st black would watch people practicing 2nd black material then go out back and memorize it. He even got so far as to practice w/ some of the 2nd blacks.

Heck, come to Lexington and visit. The BB class learns EVERYTHING together. There is a special class for the 1st's to get their new stuff but in the main class, you will get a little bit of everything.

[godzillakungfu]

From all indications, its worse that ours:eek: It is and it isn't. It is actually better in that it is more cohesive. There in lies the huge difference that makes it worse. Yes, I know that is contradictory I won't get into it on the thread.




I think the general idea is that when M. Sin first started this new seminar format, teachers that attended were not to re-teach it for one year to encourage the students to come out and learn it with M. Sin. Now for a fact, I know that rule is bent and broken quite often so it must just be that the ones you train with took it to heart.No, it is deeper than that on the West coast. Now, that I know it is New Mexico, I understand even more.





Heck, come to Lexington and visit. The BB class learns EVERYTHING together. There is a special class for the 1st's to get their new stuff but in the main class, you will get a little bit of everything.Yes, I'd recommend going to Lexington. You'll see that many of the alleged rumors aren't true.

[godzillakungfu]

That's odd. I've never come across anything like that before. Before class, after class, practice hour, at the park or somebody's house.....we've never had a problem. =\

One of the few times it would be an issue is if you haven't seen the form before. Usually what happens is if you need a form for advancement and it won't be shown for another year, they'll set you up w/ a blackbelt who knows the form and they will teach it to you. But that's just so it's taught correctly.

The other time is if it's material taught at a festival you didn't attend. With that one, I think you have to pay to play. Which I can understand.


I did see somebody get busted for it once though. A very exuberant 1st black would watch people practicing 2nd black material then go out back and memorize it. He even got so far as to practice w/ some of the 2nd blacks. It was kind of funny but I still felt bad for the guy.All I'll say is you are in Denver and that is where the problems stem. You are in the "golden realm" so, you aren't going to see the real issues. No offense.

[BentMonk]

Back to the topic at hand...

Or rather, JP's hands. JP you seem to have the guy out gunned in nearly every aspect of the match. Although after watching a few more times, it seems like there were times when you'd back off. Do you think this is a hold over from sparring mostly without gear or major contact? I know this wasn't a full contact match, but there definetly seemed to be more contact than the average night at class. Don't get me wrong. I've had my nose broken, been knocked out, and gotten more split lips and bruises than I can count sparring in class, but do you think the gear and added contact took you out of your game a little? I sparred a full contact exhibition match at the Arnold Classic this year. I had a blast and scored a lucky win. Ronn Mann is an excellent MMA fighter with a 6 and 4 record. He is also an amputee with a prosthesis from his left knee down. Which BTW hurts like hell when he kicks you with it. :D He says I "punch like a freight train". Still, the gear and serious contact took me way out of my usual comfort zone. It was a very enlightening experience.

[Judge Pen]

Back to the topic at hand...

Or rather, JP's hands. JP you seem to have the guy out gunned in nearly every aspect of the match. Although after watching a few more times, it seems like there were times when you'd back off. Do you think this is a hold over from sparring mostly without gear or major contact? I know this wasn't a full contact match, but there definetly seemed to be more contact than the average night at class. Don't get me wrong. I've had my nose broken, been knocked out, and gotten more split lips and bruises than I can count sparring in class, but do you think the gear and added contact took you out of your game a little? I sparred a full contact exhibition match at the Arnold Classic this year. I had a blast and scored a lucky win. Ronn Mann is an excellent MMA fighter with a 6 and 4 record. He is also an amputee with a prosthesis from his left knee down. Which BTW hurts like hell when he kicks you with it. :D He says I "punch like a freight train". Still, the gear and serious contact took me way out of my usual comfort zone. It was a very enlightening experience.

Which fight? I don't know if the gear etc affected me. If anything I always felt the gear makes me more aggressive in that I can get hit with the pads (or more accurately that I'm not concerned about accidently hurting someone by hitting them too hard--does that make sense?) I head-hunt with my combos more with pads then without (where I pick shots to the body). If I backed up it was becasue I was concerned I was moving into a technique. The face-masks really limit your perephial vision.

[BentMonk]

I was talking about the second clip. About 35 - 39 seconds into the round he kind of half shows you his back. It seemed like it would've been a great opportunity to finish him off. I'm not trying to be critical, and I am sitting and watching. Headgear does indeed mess with the vision. I'd almost rather just get hit in the head...almost. :D

[tattooedmonk]

[QUOTE=Leto]But a group of students who all learned a form together should be able to practice it whenever they want. How else do they expect anyone to remember it, after spending only one day learning it?QUOTE]

There has to be more to the story. I really can't imagine that happening. :confused:there is more to the story....these so called "unwritten rules" are all mixed up....it use to be that once a form was taught that you were not suppose to ask questions or ask for any help with that particular form... seminar or curriculum....if anyone said that they could not go over forms once they were taught.....that is just plain stupid...if anyone said that it was most likely because they forgot the form or were not sure if that person had learned it and did not want to get into trouble...the Soards use fear and scare tactics to get there students/teachers/masters to comply...if you do not you can get striped of rank and banned from the art and it is sent out to all the schools that you are a trouble maker ...I can not see any other reason as to why this would be said, thought, or taught..there are many more of these as well as other problems in the system...the problem starts with them and their fear that someone is going to come along and undermine them like they did to Sin The's Gym back in the day...stay tuned folks I will be here as long as I need to be to sort this crap out and keep you informed...last but not least lets get back to topic

[John Many Jars]

JP - What kind of gear are you using? The gloves look similar but your headgear looks much heftier than ours. How much contact would say you can safely make w/out risking injury?




All I'll say is you are in Denver and that is where the problems stem. You are in the "golden realm" so, you aren't going to see the real issues. No offense.

None taken. :)

I'm pretty happy with the school and my training. Luckily (knock on wood), I haven't been in a position to be exposed to many of the problems you and others have dealt with. =\


GT - It sounds like our schools are just the opposite. We only learn some of our advanced material in the regular BB class and there's an advanced BB class for the rest. I think the guy was trying to learn something from Hsing I which isn't taught until you reach 2nd black.


Even though I'd like to visit, the KY schools are probably out of the question. I am, however, hoping to stop by one of the Indiana schools in August. Out of the schools listed would Master Mingione's school be the best choice?

[John Many Jars]

[QUOTE=John Many Jars]there is more to the story....these so called "unwritten rules" are all mixed up....it use to be that once a form was taught that you were not suppose to ask questions or ask for any help with that particular form... seminar or curriculum....if anyone said that they could not go over forms once they were taught.....that is just plain stupid...if anyone said that it was most likely because they forgot the form or were not sure if that person had learned it and did not want to get into trouble...the Soards use fear and scare tactics to get there students/teachers/masters to comply...if you do not you can get striped of rank and banned from the art and it is sent out to all the schools that you are a trouble maker ...I can not see any other reason as to why this would be said, thought, or taught..there are many more of these as well as other problems in the system...the problem starts with them and their fear that someone is going to come along and undermine them like they did to Sin The's Gym back in the day...stay tuned folks I will be here as long as I need to be to sort this crap out and keep you informed...last but not least lets get back to topic


I think I'm going to become a monkey stylist. You know, see no evil, hear no evil, etc. ;)

Seriously though, I'm hoping things are/will change for the better. The Soards have always been willing to answer my questions and believe me when I say I ask a lot of questions.

[Judge Pen]

Man, I hate hearing about all the politics crap of other schools. No wonder people put SD down all the time.

As for risk of injury with my head-gear, I've knocked a guy out who was wearing those so I don't know. My neck was pretty sore after the tournament, but I didn't feel at risk for any serious injury.

[tattooedmonk]

Man, I hate hearing about all the politics crap of other schools. No wonder people put SD down all the time.

As for risk of injury with my head-gear, I've knocked a guy out who was wearing those so I don't know. My neck was pretty sore after the tournament, but I didn't feel at risk for any serious injury....and the reason this is...is because of the lack of philosophy......( three treasures) Taoism, Confucianism, and Buddhism...

...notice that the same first letters in .....taking care business..

.Elvis had these patches with tcb on them with, I believe with a lightening bolt and a cloud, for all the guys that studied ma with him...

[Judge Pen]

Back to the topic at hand...

Or rather, JP's hands. JP you seem to have the guy out gunned in nearly every aspect of the match. Although after watching a few more times, it seems like there were times when you'd back off.


I was talking about the second clip. About 35 - 39 seconds into the round he kind of half shows you his back. It seemed like it would've been a great opportunity to finish him off.


Ah, Ok. Right before that he slipped under me and was basicly running away. He was just out of my reach and I didn't want to rush in and get caught with one of his kicks. The guy had great legs and could hick from many different angles so my plan going in was to slow down the match and keep him squared up where I could deal with his feet and control my center-line. I felt it was too risky to continue to rush him at that moment.

[Golden Tiger]

Yes, I'd recommend going to Lexington. You'll see that many of the alleged rumors aren't true.

Alleged rumors about Lexington? oh my:eek:


Even though I'd like to visit, the KY schools are probably out of the question. I am, however, hoping to stop by one of the Indiana schools in August. Out of the schools listed would Master Mingione's school be the best choice?

Master Frank's school is great. He's a great guy with exceptional ability. Then again, his school is just about an hour from Lexington...(wink wink, nod nod)

JP, I have watched the clips a few times and despite the critism, I think you did a darned good job. You remind me of myself back in the day...just a tad slower version;)

[Judge Pen]

JP, I have watched the clips a few times and despite the critism, I think you did a darned good job. You remind me of myself back in the day...just a tad slower version;)

Thanks GT. Remember, it's not the speed; it's the timing. :p

[Ralphie]

Didn't Elvis die on the crapper? Maybe he was really an existentialist? Did Elvis use .... way too much?

True story:
I've always enjoyed MA's because I love athletics. I don't think that any MA will make you super human, but I think athletics can help you in many different ways both physicall, mentally, and emotionally. Anyway, I stopped going to SD because I felt there was too much time talking and not practicing. I quietly left and joined another school that simply spent more time training. For me there was no heaviness to it. I didn't say anything bad, or leave on bad terms.

So, maybe 2-3 years later, a friend of mine who trained at the same time I did called me up (he had also stopped training there), he had run into a SD black belt. The guy said that the Soards told people that they "wanted [my] black belt however they could get it." Keep in mind, I was pretty far removed from them, and I had no idea why anyone would say that. So I called and talked to one of the Soards. He said he didn't know anything about that, and really I guess I had to take his word for it. They were always nice superficially, and I didn't know them personally, so I had no reason not to believe them. I didin't hear anything about this after that.

Even though I think SD is inneficient and a bit silly, this short introduction into their politics was why in the past I haven't had a lot of positive impressions about the organization.

[godzillakungfu]

Didn't Elvis die on the crapper? Maybe he was really an existentialist? Did Elvis use .... way too much?

True story:
I've always enjoyed MA's because I love athletics. I don't think that any MA will make you super human, but I think athletics can help you in many different ways both physicall, mentally, and emotionally. Anyway, I stopped going to SD because I felt there was too much time talking and not practicing. I quietly left and joined another school that simply spent more time training. For me there was no heaviness to it. I didn't say anything bad, or leave on bad terms.

So, maybe 2-3 years later, a friend of mine who trained at the same time I did called me up (he had also stopped training there), he had run into a SD black belt. The guy said that the Soards told people that they "wanted [my] black belt however they could get it." Keep in mind, I was pretty far removed from them, and I had no idea why anyone would say that. So I called and talked to one of the Soards. He said he didn't know anything about that, and really I guess I had to take his word for it. They were always nice superficially, and I didn't know them personally, so I had no reason not to believe them. I didin't hear anything about this after that.

Even though I think SD is inneficient and a bit silly, this short introduction into their politics was why in the past I haven't had a lot of positive impressions about the organization.:eek: :confused: :)

[tattooedmonk]

:eek: :confused: :) elvis did die on the crapper...... TCB!!

..this phenemenon,( more talking and less workingout), happens from school to school...and should not be thought that it is exclusive to SD schools...the school( a CSC) that I help start ...ended up like this...

...it sucked to say the least...with many of the schools it is about quantity and not quality( more students who are less than average... over less students who are more than average)...it is all about the cheddar( money)

....the belt thing is stupid..if you thought about it..they can have the belt...they can not take away the knowledge that you learned..

SD in efficient.....??? this will vary from school to school, from master to master, and student to student..and once again can not be said to be exclusive to just SD

[ninthdrunk]

I think the atmosphere of too much talking is just something that happens. I hate this, but I also love it. I mean heck, I have a lot of fun with my classmates. I think the best way to put a stop to it lies with the teacher. In my classes here in Ithaca, it's gotten to that point a couple times. I bite the bullet and appologize to my students for letting it get that way. They seem to take it to heart and we all come out on fire for a few months until it happens again. Of course, not everyone is willing to admit to themselves that it might be their fault...it's so much easier to blame "lazy" students. However, sometimes that's the case, and students are really just looking to hang out with one another...that's always a drag, but you still find the serious students off doing their own thing while everyone else is jawing. As an instructor, you just gotta pay exta attention to those students so they don't get frustrated.

[tattooedmonk]

I think the atmosphere of too much talking is just something that happens. I hate this, but I also love it. I mean heck, I have a lot of fun with my classmates. I think the best way to put a stop to it lies with the teacher. In my classes here in Ithaca, it's gotten to that point a couple times. I bite the bullet and appologize to my students for letting it get that way. They seem to take it to heart and we all come out on fire for a few months until it happens again. Of course, not everyone is willing to admit to themselves that it might be their fault...it's so much easier to blame "lazy" students. However, sometimes that's the case, and students are really just looking to hang out with one another...that's always a drag, but you still find the serious students off doing their own thing while everyone else is jawing. As an instructor, you just gotta pay exta attention to those students so they don't get frustrated.I agree.... it can give a class/school a new motivation to train harder especially when people find out, after talking and bonding, how much they have in common other than the arts...there is always going to be the social aspect and it is a good thing and I love it too ....it is when it continues in every class ,everyday , day after day and the discussions are not about the arts is when it begins to wear thin on the die hards and the overall structure of the program...

[BoulderDawg]

Didn't Elvis die on the crapper? Maybe he was really an existentialist? Did Elvis use .... way too much?

True story:
I've always enjoyed MA's because I love athletics. I don't think that any MA will make you super human, but I think athletics can help you in many different ways both physicall, mentally, and emotionally. Anyway, I stopped going to SD because I felt there was too much time talking and not practicing. I quietly left and joined another school that simply spent more time training. For me there was no heaviness to it. I didn't say anything bad, or leave on bad terms.

So, maybe 2-3 years later, a friend of mine who trained at the same time I did called me up (he had also stopped training there), he had run into a SD black belt. The guy said that the Soards told people that they "wanted [my] black belt however they could get it." Keep in mind, I was pretty far removed from them, and I had no idea why anyone would say that. So I called and talked to one of the Soards. He said he didn't know anything about that, and really I guess I had to take his word for it. They were always nice superficially, and I didn't know them personally, so I had no reason not to believe them. I didin't hear anything about this after that.

Even though I think SD is inneficient and a bit silly, this short introduction into their politics was why in the past I haven't had a lot of positive impressions about the organization.

Last words on the subject:

I enjoy my training at CSC. Master David and Master Sharon have always been nice and friendly and knowledgable in SD. As far as I know no one been threatened or anything else like that.....and I don't believe the story about the belt.

Now that said, as I mentioned, there has always been something a little different at the school. It's nothing no one ever talks about but it just seems that there is an air of caution surrounding the place. Everyone associated with the school is very diplomatic with what they say about the school and training. They chose their words very cafefully.

So far with me this hasn't been a problem. I enjoy the people and the school...Now if it did become a problem I would be quick to address it.

In any case I'm looking forward to the GM The Festival and meeting the GM later this month!

[tattooedmonk]

Last words on the subject:

I enjoy my training at CSC. Master David and Master Sharon have always been nice and friendly and knowledgable in SD. As far as I know no one been threatened or anything else like that.....and I don't believe the story about the belt.

Now that said, as I mentioned, there has always been something a little different at the school. It's nothing no one ever talks about but it just seems that there is an air of caution surrounding the place. Everyone associated with the school is very diplomatic with what they say about the school and training. They chose their words very cafefully.

So far with me this hasn't been a problem. I enjoy the people and the school...Now if it did become a problem I would be quick to address it.

In any case I'm looking forward to the GM The Festival and meeting the GM later this month!look at post 58 ..you will know why the air of caution exists..

[Ralphie]

You know Boulderdawg, I didn't nor do I now believe that it was generated by the Soards, either. I think it was generated by a dumas who practiced there. The guy was a notorious crap talker, and a big loser. As far is if you think my story's not true...I hope you're not questioning my integrity. It was so strange to me, I don't think I could make something like that up. Also, I live/work in Boulder. So, you could always ask me in person if you'd like.
-Steve

[godzillakungfu]

Last words on the subject:

I enjoy my training at CSC. Master David and Master Sharon have always been nice and friendly and knowledgable in SD. As far as I know no one been threatened or anything else like that.....and I don't believe the story about the belt.

No one has told you to quit. No one has told yo that you are wrong.

He was relating a story. He also said everything was cool. I'd advise staying away from the thread if you don't want to hear upsetting things. Go look at the WC, CLF, and Mantis threads for drama. Bad things happen in alnost ALL orgs, some more so than others.

The Belt Thing is in writing, you are wrong about that, though not Ralphie's case.

Legal threats exist. I know that for a fact these are also in writing.

[Judge Pen]

No offense guys, but why don't we start a CSC politics thread?

[tattooedmonk]

No offense guys, but why don't we start a CSC politics thread?JP..this was bound to come up..many of us who are /were csc, would like to have the freedom and the assests that you have benefited from SD... because of the politics, at one time or another,students were not /are not suppose to get involved in things of this nature ...like I said before ..it took alot of balls for you to post on the net you sparring in an open tournament...not just the crime but the video tape to prove it... many of the students/masters are jealous of what you have all around...some believe the grass is always greener on the other side...but that does not mean it is....so you can understand ... it is not personal.... this is your thread and the topic is your sparring matches.. and we should be repectful of that .... and you are right someone should follow through on your suggestion..thanx for understanding...TTM

[kwaichang]

Once a long time ago I was training with my Sifu. It was 1972 I think. Well we went into the school and he asked if we were ready itwas a class of about 5 this time. We said yes and he started to teach us explaining about a technique. I inadvertantly looked at the clock. Sifu stopped the class and said dismissed. We all had a puzzled look on our face then he explained If you are thinking about the time then you are not thinking about the MA. If the teacher talks alot listen maybe you will learn something if you dont have the will to train on your own and you look to others to train you and you will limit your understanding. That is the difference between SELF DISCIPLINE AND DISCIPLINE. KC;)

[kwaichang]

Hey Gt Where Is My Pm As To Who You Are Kc

[The Willow Sword]

If the teacher talks alot listen maybe you will learn something if you dont have the will to train on your own and you look to others to train you and you will limit your understanding.


Yeah its real fun and educational to sit there for over two hours listening to why the movie hasnt been made yet:rolleyes: :p ;) :D

TWS

[BentMonk]

Ah, Ok. Right before that he slipped under me and was basicly running away. He was just out of my reach and I didn't want to rush in and get caught with one of his kicks. The guy had great legs and could hick from many different angles so my plan going in was to slow down the match and keep him squared up where I could deal with his feet and control my center-line. I felt it was too risky to continue to rush him at that moment.

I can appreciate that. Too many times have I tried rushing in to jam a kick, only to be deftly side stepped and kicked anyway. :D Of course if I don't rush in with guns blazing, I get hung on the end of feet every time. That's what was nice about my match at the Arnold. I was able to partially jam or absorb Ron's kicks in order to land five or six punches to his face. For once it was obvious to those judging that even though my opponent was catching me with a kick or two, they weren't stopping me and I was dishing out more damage. IMO I have lost some matches I shouldn't have because I have to take a shot to give a few.

As to the politics, this is my last comment about all of it. GM Sin is the head of the SD family. I have NEVER in the twelve years I've been in SD heard GM Sin advocate any of this childish bickering that goes on between schools, or say that SD techniques are closely guarded secrets. Quite the contrary. Every time I have heard the man speak he talks of unity within SD and making SD well known and respected every where. What this useless ego driven political BS is doing is the exact opposite of what the head of SD has asked for. The same instructors and students who thrive on the political BS claim to have loyalty and respect for GM Sin. Tell me how doing the exact opposite of GM Sin's wishes shows him anything other than total disrespect.

[godzillakungfu]

As to the politics, this is my last comment about all of it. GM Sin is the head of the SD family. I have NEVER in the twelve years I've been in SD heard GM Sin advocate any of this childish bickering that goes on between schools, or say that SD techniques are closely guarded secrets.


We all agree on that if you really read the posts. No one is saying GM Sin said anything of this nature. We said, specifically, who was the cause and what area.

Plus, it doesn't matter what GM allows, it is what goes on.


The same instructors and students who thrive on the political BS claim to have loyalty and respect for GM Sin. Tell me how doing the exact opposite of GM Sin's wishes shows him anything other than total disrespect.
Shhhh. Don't talk. You are disrepecting GM Sin by voicing your opinion. Yes, it helps the art by shutting your mouth. It helps spread this great art by building a cult like atmosphere.

Okay whatever.

[Ralphie]

JP, I have a question for you...did you do anything to prepare for your fights? Increase cardio, hit the bag, spar more within your school?

Thanks!

[tattooedmonk]

Yeah its real fun and educational to sit there for over two hours listening to why the movie hasnt been made yet:rolleyes: :p ;) :D

TWSlmfao!!..so true so true

[tattooedmonk]

We all agree on that if you really read the posts. No one is saying GM Sin said anything of this nature. We said, specifically, who was the cause and what area.

Plus, it doesn't matter what GM allows, it is what goes on.


Shhhh. Don't talk. You are disrepecting GM Sin by voicing your opinion. Yes, it helps the art by shutting your mouth. It helps spread this great art by building a cult like atmosphere.

Okay whatever.lmfao!!so true exactly...whatever!! but seriously folks lets get back to topic for JP...

[tattooedmonk]

It is only disrespect if that is how you perceive,believe,and accept it.....

[Banjos_dad]

the Correct was on its way to Orlando, FL to check out Epcot Center, but its thread got hijacked and is now sitting on the ramp at Havana Int'l Airport...baking in the sun.

[BentMonk]

I know I was basically preaching to the choir. I also know that some of the people who actively perpetuate the political BS in SD lurk on this board and others. Their egos won't let them see how silly they're being. However it's never a bad thing to let as many people as possible know that not everyone in SD wants it to be cult like in any way, especially GM Sin. Although I am clueless as to why he allows it to go on at all. Anyway...enough of this stuff.

JP the fans think you should've been victorious. What didn't the judges see that we did?

[godzillakungfu]

I know I was basically preaching to the choir. I also know that some of the people who actively perpetuate the political BS in SD lurk on this board and others. Their egos won't let them see how silly they're being. However it's never a bad thing to let as many people as possible know that not everyone in SD wants it to be cult like in any way, especially GM Sin. Although I am clueless as to why he allows it to go on at all. Anyway...enough of this stuff. When things settle maybe I'll tell you.:) Ahhhh gotcha It is really stupid IMO. It has to do with GMT's personality. No, this isn't an insult. He is a great and very helpful person. I think this is also his one weakness.


Alright I'm done.

JP the fans think you should've been victorious. What didn't the judges see that we did?Yes, do you have the other matches taped?

[kwaichang]

In the old days Stance training lasted months, I guess 2 hours about a movie isnt that long, you still learned the form or what ever, In the old show Kung Fu he stood in front of the Temple for 2 weeks in the rain etc. WS, boy are you bitter arent you supposed to live the way of Budha and forgive? I remember when you started SD you were mediocre at best and 2-3 years later you had improved so much your forms were good and your sparring much better, I think you had direction then. Thhere needs to be a test of patience for all knowledge worth learning h=ll you waste more than 20 hours on this forum. KC:)

[tattooedmonk]

I know I was basically preaching to the choir. I also know that some of the people who actively perpetuate the political BS in SD lurk on this board and others. Their egos won't let them see how silly they're being. However it's never a bad thing to let as many people as possible know that not everyone in SD wants it to be cult like in any way, especially GM Sin. Although I am clueless as to why he allows it to go on at all. Anyway...enough of this stuff.

JP the fans think you should've been victorious. What didn't the judges see that we did?I apologize again JP....this is the point..... maybe if they do read this and let go of their egos, let go of the iron grip on the system, and were not so judgemental ....then we will not have to post this crap, things will change for the better for the art and the people involved, and there will be less politcal BS..

The reason that it does have the cult like following is because of the perpetuation of fear...fear that someone else will be taught more, that someone will split off and start their own thing ,that Grandmaster The will die and a great deal of the art will be lost,that someone that they do not want to be the leader will become the new Grandmaster when GM Sin is gone, that someone will be striped of rank and kicked out of the system for saying something or doing something that someone else believes is undermining the system...the list goes on...

GM Sin has lost a great deal of control because of the business aspect..it is not his fault ..but it is his responsibility...this is part of the reason why Ie Chang Ming did not want it to be taught to us...


in conclusion.... if everyone works on the practice, perpetuation,and preservation of the art....and lets go of their egos.... then there would be less of the separation and division that is destroying the art as a whole...

[tattooedmonk]

In the old days Stance training lasted months, I guess 2 hours about a movie isnt that long, you still learned the form or what ever, In the old show Kung Fu he stood in front of the Temple for 2 weeks in the rain etc. WS, boy are you bitter arent you supposed to live the way of Budha and forgive? I remember when you started SD you were mediocre at best and 2-3 years later you had improved so much your forms were good and your sparring much better, I think you had direction then. Thhere needs to be a test of patience for all knowledge worth learning h=ll you waste more than 20 hours on this forum. KC:)the thing is that they did not have to listen to the drivel of movie talks that take away from the teachings...there is nothing positive about entertaining the thoughts of the movie during class times...it would be another thing if they sat there and discussed martial arts , philosophy, medicine ,meditation ...anything but what takes away from the art....and believe me.... this movie deal does take away from the art ...more than you might even realize..

[kwaichang]

I do not question GMT and his desire to talk about the movie we discuss more crap here than he ever has and it takes away from training as well. I will listen to 10 hours of movie talk to learn more from him . I for one am interested in perpetuating theart of SD,whether with a movie or whatever. It is worth more to me than some I guess. But I assume all you so called TRADITIONAL PEOPLE/CMA out there do not talk during class and you just train. KC yeah sure:rolleyes:

[tattooedmonk]

I do not question GMT and his desire to talk about the movie we discuss more crap here than he ever has and it takes away from training as well. I will listen to 10 hours of movie talk to learn more from him . I for one am interested in perpetuating theart of SD,whether with a movie or whatever. It is worth more to me than some I guess. But I assume all you so called TRADITIONAL PEOPLE/CMA out there do not talk during class and you just train. KC yeah sure:rolleyes:Not questioning is a problem...this is not ancient times and we should not take everything from what our masters say like they did in those times..every part of your life depended on those masters back then..we live in modern times... and this is no longer the case....to just go by what your masters says is just stupid and ignorant...


if you had to listen to 10 hours of that... I can bet that you would be tired of it after about ten of fiften minutes...I have been hearing about it for over 13 years...

I am not disrespecting Master Sin here...many of us feel this way but are afraid to say anything.... I am not afraid never have been...I have already been kicked out of my school...

If more people spoke their minds and the truth instead of sucking ass then many changes would have been made already and many things would have never been changed....

to be honest if Master Sin was not so caught up in the movie and spent more time focusing on the organization and unity of the csc's and sd..then there would be less politics, less trash talking, and no need for this conversation...

and for those of you who are out there and disagree with me ...you are full of bullshido...and for those of you who are going to go and tell whomever....grow up and get some balls ....

[godzillakungfu]

Both you guys need to carefully re-read each others post. I think you both are about to start arguing about something you agree on.

KC you are saying there is nothing wrong with GMT talking about his movie? I agree.

TTM is saying to much regular classes time (non-festival/non-GMT) is spent on movie topics. I agree.


Now, if I'm wrong, continue the debate.

[godzillakungfu]

Not questioning is a problem...this is not ancient times and we should not take everything from what our masters say like they did in those times..every part of your life depended on those masters back then..we live in modern times... and this is no longer the case....to just go by what your masters says is just stupid and ignorant...


if you had to listen to 10 hours of that... I can bet that you would be tired of it after about ten of fiften minutes...I have been hearing about it for over 13 years...

I am not disrespecting Master Sin here...many of us feel this way but are afraid to say anything.... I am not afraid never have been...I have already been kicked out of my school...

If more people spoke their minds and the truth instead of sucking ass then many changes would have been made already and many things would have never been changed....

to be honest if Master Sin was not so caught up in the movie and spent more time focusing on the organization and unity of the csc's and sd..then there would be less politics, less trash talking, and no need for this conversation...

and for those of you who are out there and disagree with me ...you are full of bullshido...and for those of you who are going to go and tell whomever....grow up and get some balls ....


There is much more involved than this explanation. Not saying it isn't right but, it is only the tip of the iceberg.

[tattooedmonk]

I do not disagree..I was just clarifying...I know that this is just the tip of the ice burg..but that is where it starts melting first....

[kwaichang]

In ancient times the masters taught more than just MA but to always question the masters words and way is to miss the point of being a student, at this point you or anyone assumes the level of the Master, thinking one has equal enough knowledge to question. self discovery is one thing but to not follow the Master is disrespectful and should not be done. If GMT tried to perform surgery I would say no but i am studying CMA and to that I have no dought and no questions except will you teach me more/ KC

[tattooedmonk]

I am not saying not to follow your master in your pursuit in the martial arts..I am saying just use common sense and do not follow your master blindly ..remember that now it is a business and that takes precidence over the art in many ways, how your master thinks, feels ,and how they conduct themselves...

these are general statements and do not neccesarilly reflect any one master or system...

[kwaichang]

Even in business if I taught Shoto Kan I would still teach the forms as I was taught so the art itself would not be lost for the sake of money.
Theoretically: would you change a form as it was taught to you just to make Money? , when you could make money without changing it? Are you saying that we should question the Master who ever it is just because they make a living teaching said MA KC

[tattooedmonk]

Even in business if I taught Shoto Kan I would still teach the forms as I was taught so the art itself would not be lost for the sake of money.
Theoretically: would you change a form as it was taught to you just to make Money? , when you could make money without changing it? Are you saying that we should question the Master who ever it is just because they make a living teaching said MA KC This is you ....I would not either .....but I am aware that many people have..you can make money either way...but one way is easier than the other....and yes I do think that we should question , to some degree, if the master is making money from it......it would be stupid not to...and I am not saying that you should not make money at it either.....

[The Willow Sword]

WS, boy are you bitter arent you supposed to live the way of Budha and forgive? I remember when you started SD you were mediocre at best and 2-3 years later you had improved so much your forms were good and your sparring much better, I think you had direction then.


I'm not a buddhist. Remaining passive and apathetic in the face of pure bullsh!t is not my thang, i tried it for over 8 years. Didnt work out.

TWS.

[tattooedmonk]

I'm not a buddhist. Remaining passive and apathetic in the face of pure bullsh!t is not my thang, i tried it for over 8 years. Didnt work out.

TWS.I am sure this is the reason why they taught buddhism, taoism, and confucianism at shaolin..not everyone wants to be or can be a buddhist .....you can be a philosophical buddhist and not a religious one...

[The Willow Sword]

I wasnt suggesting that buddhism is pure bullsh!t. What i remained passive and apathetic towards for 8 years was SD and ITS pure bullsh!t.

I actually like buddhism and some of the philosophies contained therein. But i am not a buddhist.

Peace,TWS

[tattooedmonk]

I wasnt suggesting that buddhism is pure bullsh!t. What i remained passive and apathetic towards for 8 years was SD and ITS pure bullsh!t.

I actually like buddhism and some of the philosophies contained therein. But i am not a buddhist.

Peace,TWSI am with ya brother...

[Judge Pen]

JP, I have a question for you...did you do anything to prepare for your fights? Increase cardio, hit the bag, spar more within your school?

Thanks!

I was grossly out-of-shape a month prior to the fights. Prior to starting to prepare for the fight I had just bought a new home so most of October and November was spent focusing on home improvement. Then I traveled with my wife for the holidays and my training time was limted. The matches were early February and I started training in earnest the second week of January. I started skipping rope every day, hitting my forms very hard and working a heavy-bag. Unfortunately it was a water-core bag and it busted on my third day of training on it. I was using it for 90 second rounds with a 30 second break in between to simulate the sparring matches. After it broke, I replaced heavy-bag work with shadow boxing.

At the time I was only able to make a formal class once a week. Because I had the fights coming up we spent about a third of our class fighting with head-gear under the rules these matches were to be under.

I didn't get to the shape that I wanted to be prior to the fights. You can't see that in these two clips (it was my first and third fights of the day) so these are accurate representations of my sparring style, strategy and ability, but you can tell in the later clips that I was obviously gassed.

[Judge Pen]

JP the fans think you should've been victorious. What didn't the judges see that we did?

I havent' posted the second and third matches from my fight with the guy in the red pants. The judges ruled that I won the first round (which is the one posted). The ruled that I lost the next two. I think the second round should have went my way, but it was a good fight and was close. The guy won the third round in my opinion.

[Judge Pen]

When things settle maybe I'll tell you.:) Ahhhh gotcha It is really stupid IMO. It has to do with GMT's personality. No, this isn't an insult. He is a great and very helpful person. I think this is also his one weakness.


Alright I'm done.
Yes, do you have the other matches taped?

I do, but they aren't under 100 megs for youtube. MK even tried to explain how to convert them so that they will be postable, but I'm a computer idiot. eventually I'll post all of the fight with the guy in red pants and a fight with a very good mantis fighter, but I've got to sit down and figure out how to make the clips work. Sorry, I'm an idiot.

[MasterKiller]

So when is the movie coming out?

What is the production status?

[Judge Pen]

In some parts of the country, mullets never went out of style.

[MasterKiller]

In some parts of the country, mullets never went out of style.


You're too quick, JP. :D

[Judge Pen]

I should have quoted you to preserve the evidence. :D

[hungsingclf]

hey jp,

just wanted to say thanks again for your help this weekend... it was also a pleasure to meet your wife... look forward to seeing you in sept... who knows we might even get you in a lion this time:eek:

[Judge Pen]

hey jp,

just wanted to say thanks again for your help this weekend... it was also a pleasure to meet your wife... look forward to seeing you in sept... who knows we might even get you in a lion this time:eek:

Thanks! You're lion dances were amazing. Especially considering the amount of experience that they had. It's a testiment to the quality of their teacher's instruction. I'm more than willing to jump in the back of one and try to keep up.

As always, I appreciate all of your hospitality when I'm down in ATL. I'm looking forward to getting back there soon.

[hungsingclf]

jp,

thanks...we need more work tho... always need to fix something or do better... hope you guys enjoyed the dim sum and the japanese shaved ice, buuble tea. luckily wasn't too hot this year. 30 min lion in 95 degree weather is somewhat challenging... i think saichi koto enjoyed it too.:D

[BentMonk]

JP - I enjoyed and faired better in a match with substantial contact being exchanged. Do you have any plans to compete in events that allow more contact? Would you ever consider entering a full contact MMA match? My friend Ron has said that if I can hone my ground game a lot more I could do well in my weight class. Heck if I can do it anyone can. :D

[Judge Pen]

JP - I enjoyed and faired better in a match with substantial contact being exchanged. Do you have any plans to compete in events that allow more contact? Would you ever consider entering a full contact MMA match? My friend Ron has said that if I can hone my ground game a lot more I could do well in my weight class. Heck if I can do it anyone can. :D

I'd love to see you compete. I've thought about it. I'd like to make my game more well-rounded but I don't think I have the heart to put the effort into training to be competitive in MMA. The idea is appealling, but I know that its tough for me to get motivated to train as much as I do sometimes so I doubt I'll ever seriously venture into that type of arena.

To paraphrase the poet, between the conception and the act lies the shadow.

[yu shan]

My favorite fight of the day was you and Frank, what a battle. Props to you and your teacher.

If your interested, I will be in the `ville to teach Matt and his group that spear form. (September)

[Judge Pen]

My favorite fight of the day was you and Frank, what a battle. Props to you and your teacher.

If your interested, I will be in the `ville to teach Matt and his group that spear form. (September)

With Frank's permission, I'll try to post a couple of those rounds. They were battles (especially the first match--he owned me the second time we fought :mad: ). It took me watching the video to see how he was hitting me--He is a testiment to his teacher. . . .

Yeah, I'm interested. Let me know more detail when you know. I'll be down in ATL with the sifu Myer's Lions sometime that month too, so I hope it doesn't conflict.

[hungsingclf]

jp,

we might be premiering "fearless" that evening...i'm working on it now... hopefully the company who is releasing it will work with me on it. either way we will have a good time and afterwards hit up some solid grub. :cool:

[Judge Pen]

jp,

we might be premiering "fearless" that evening...i'm working on it now... hopefully the company who is releasing it will work with me on it. either way we will have a good time and afterwards hit up some solid grub. :cool:

WoHoo. That sounds good. I'm still working on burning of the calories from Dim Sum on Sunday.

[yu shan]

Alright that`s it, I got make this trip to the ATL for some dim sum! ;)

[hungsingclf]

yu shan,


its about time:p .... you know your always welcome for some ATL hospitality:D

[yu shan]

Hey Bro

Thank you sir, ditto for here as well. PM me your lion schedule, I would like very much to see your teams in action.

[hungsingclf]

hey,

sorry we couldn't make it up for the lion dance seminar... we were sps with stuff at the time. hope it was a success. our event this saturday was ok... my head player had something go wrong with his foot in the middle of the performance so we kinda had to limp thru it:( . sunday was a decent outting... not much happening at the moment. you guys should definetely come down for autumn moon festival... mmm, lots of moon cakes:eek: . that goes for any of yu shans group. give me a ring sometime bro.

[Oso]

just a couple of comments.

JP fought his ass off that day.

The guy in red pants was a better fighter, imo, than he's getting credit for here. NOT saying that maybe JP shouldn't have won but just saying.

CACMA rules are out there, google for them. I don't care for them too much but they were the sponsor and the insurance source.

I won't be doing another event with CACMA or anyone else. I've tentatively set a date of Fall 2007 and will host it alone most likely with San Shou/San Da style rules at a medium contact level. The emphasis will be on sparring. We'll do forms but w/o a great deal of differentiation between styles...probably just Youth, Adult, Empty Hand, Weapons, 2 Person EH and W.

I also would like to have a grappling only style event...but, still very much in the planning stages at this point.

ok...sorry for the OT...

good job to JP for representing SD and his teacher, Master Mullins.

[Judge Pen]

The guy in red pants was a better fighter, imo, than he's getting credit for here. NOT saying that maybe JP shouldn't have won but just saying.


And I've said that. This was a three round match. I clearly won the first round (the round that I posted here) and he clearly won the third round. The second round was a good fight (and very close), but I haven't been able to get the other rounds posted on youtube so you can get a complete picture of the fight. He changed his strategy after the first round and adapted like any good fighter should.

Thanks for the kind words. Keep me up on the fights slated for Fall 2007.

[Oso]

My comment on that wasn't aimed at anyone, least of all you. again, just saying.

I'll keep you posted.


Did you get the info I sent you on the tournament in Aug?

[Judge Pen]

My comment on that wasn't aimed at anyone, least of all you. again, just saying.

I'll keep you posted.


Did you get the info I sent you on the tournament in Aug?

I'm just saying I agree with you. :p

I did get the informaiton. I'm going to be there and I'm contemplating on doing a form. Don't know yet. . . . How many students you going to have there? There's another tournament in Knoxville in a couple of weeks. "Arts of the Samurai" but its an open style tournament.

[Oso]

I will most likely only have 2 - forms only. I want to see the sparring rules in action before I commit a student to them.

"open style" tournament means kung fu peeps don't stand a chance of winning. ;)

[John Many Jars]

"open style" tournament means kung fu peeps don't stand a chance of winning. ;)


So that means us SD people have a chance? :D


*edit*

Am I allowed to include myself among the SD'ers?

[ninthdrunk]

THREAD HIJACK WARNING!!


The link in Oso's sig is amazing!! Best song in the world. I especially liked the hillbilly guitar playing hamsters, or guinea pigs, or whatever they were. I don't even wanna know how you came across that...what in the world did you type into google for THAT result!?

[Oso]

JMJ: LOL, maybe so. ;)

"open" generaly means 'tag' rules. if you don't play tag...as in you play with more 'continuous' type of sparring, it's harder to win and you might get called for excessive contact by following up every shot. but, it most not mean that at that tourney.


9thD: rathergood.com has been around a while. the ninja song is new...and funny.

[csckungfuguy]

Here's the second clip. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4_3SYj41U0

This guy was freaky flexible, but he often gave up balance and position for a leg-technique. I won this round but lost the match (I think that I should have won the 2nd round too, but hey-that's the breaks right.) I was humbled a bit at the end of th e match in that I got a bit over-confident and the scissor take-down caught me off gurad, but I hit the ground kicking. He won first place in the tournament in fighting.

TM: We don't usually spar with the equipment in our school. Occassionally, but not regularly. It makes a difference, but that's not an excuse--you adapt.
As for the rules, yes, sweeps, throws, clinching were allowed. They gave you 3 to 5 seconds in the clinch before they broke you up. Chin-na was not allowed nor was ground work. As for being critical, that's fine. I expect it by putting it up here. I take it with a grain of salt--good advice is good advice, but I also understand there's going to be a lot of key-board critcs that aren't posting but just talking. Such is the KFO experience.

man you lost this round? he was just tapping and running until he got lucky with the scissor legs...i liked how you stayed close so his kicks lost all power

nice round

[Judge Pen]

man you lost this round? he was just tapping and running until he got lucky with the scissor legs...i liked how you stayed close so his kicks lost all power

nice round


*sigh* I won that round (the second clip--the one that I posted) but I lost the next two rounds (have not been posted yet) to lose the match. I probably didn't explain that very well. The guy was a better fighter than he showed in this round and he adapted very well.

Thanks for the complments. I had the benefit of seeing him fight a match before ours so I had my strategy going in.

[neilhytholt]

The first one, that tai chi guy was all over you. Every place where you say he's 'throwing' you would have been palm strikes... anyway. There's no way you should have won that one.

Second one, man that guy sucked. You were all over him.

Anyhow nice show.

[Oso]

The first one, that tai chi guy was all over you. Every place where you say he's 'throwing' you would have been palm strikes... anyway. There's no way you should have won that one.

Second one, man that guy sucked. You were all over him.

Anyhow nice show.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

wow...talk about 'coulda, shoulda, woulda'

IF they had been 'palm strikes' that could have done any damage...they effing would have.

Palm Strikes were not illegal. If that guy (not knocking him, I know him...he's a nice enough guy) was thinking 'I'm gonna knock this SD guy out with my killer palm strikes' he could have done that...well, ok, not really since it was 'medium' contact...

One of my most irritated moments that weekend was when I found out that one of my students lost a match because the judges allowed that some weak ass, over-the-shoulder-with-the-back-turned 'tiger claw' strikes would have done damage 'on-the-street'. Talk about a messed up sense of 'reality'. That's the #1 reason I'm not going to affiliate with that group again. My guy had nearly complete ring control the entire match, continually driving the other guy out of bounds on every clash.

The only thing that matters in a match is just what happens in the match and how effective it was in preventing your opponent from controlling you and how well what you did controlled your opponent.

[neilhytholt]

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

wow...talk about 'coulda, shoulda, woulda'

IF they had been 'palm strikes' that could have done any damage...they effing would have.

Palm Strikes were not illegal. If that guy (not knocking him, I know him...he's a nice enough guy) was thinking 'I'm gonna knock this SD guy out with my killer palm strikes' he could have done that...well, ok, not really since it was 'medium' contact...

One of my most irritated moments that weekend was when I found out that one of my students lost a match because the judges allowed that some weak ass, over-the-shoulder-with-the-back-turned 'tiger claw' strikes would have done damage 'on-the-street'. Talk about a messed up sense of 'reality'. That's the #1 reason I'm not going to affiliate with that group again. My guy had nearly complete ring control the entire match, continually driving the other guy out of bounds on every clash.

The only thing that matters in a match is just what happens in the match and how effective it was in preventing your opponent from controlling you and how well what you did controlled your opponent.

Okay, I guess I was assuming (why does that seem to always make you an ass), that it was medium contact and the taiji guy couldn't use those strikes so he more grappled instead.

There were many times he had his palms near JP's head and body. It really seemed like he had the advantage there. Nobody called it, and so JP got a good knee shot off at one point. Guess the taiji guy didn't know how to finish the job. Too bad.

JP's style seems to be more straight forward and it worked extremely well on the Shaolin guy.

Overall it was a good job. I guess I was rooting for the taiji guy just because he was doing a good job controlling a bigger opponent.

It would be tough going up against you, JP, that's for sure. You've got the size and when you unleash your techniques it's like a whole bunch of cannons going off at once. LOL

[Judge Pen]

The first one, that tai chi guy was all over you. Every place where you say he's 'throwing' you would have been palm strikes... anyway. There's no way you should have won that one.

Second one, man that guy sucked. You were all over him.

Anyhow nice show.

:rolleyes: I look forward to seeing your sparring examples posted here. Obviously I have a lot to learn.

Back to reality, I fought the match defending the techniques he was using. He wanted to throw and clinch. I had to continually sink my weight and try to prevent that. If he was using killer "palm-strikes" then it may have been a different match (and I would have adjusted).

This guy was a class act too. Real nice and gracious in victory and defeat. The judges did limit his use of a neck crank that might have made it a different fight if he had been allowed to freely use it. He didn't complain about that.

[Judge Pen]

Okay, I guess I was assuming (why does that seem to always make you an ass), that it was medium contact and the taiji guy couldn't use those strikes so he more grappled instead.

There were many times he had his palms near JP's head and body. It really seemed like he had the advantage there. Nobody called it, and so JP got a good knee shot off at one point. Guess the taiji guy didn't know how to finish the job. Too bad.

JP's style seems to be more straight forward and it worked extremely well on the Shaolin guy.

Overall it was a good job. I guess I was rooting for the taiji guy just because he was doing a good job controlling a bigger opponent.

It would be tough going up against you, JP, that's for sure. You've got the size and when you unleash your techniques it's like a whole bunch of cannons going off at once. LOL

:rolleyes: I'll look for more palm-strikes in the next UFC match I watch.

BTW, I had a couple of inches on him in height, but the guy outweighed me. He was much stronger than me. I was really happy to have prevented his throws in this round because of that. Everytime I fought this guy I was exhausted afterwards because it took so much energy to defend agaisnt his "in-your-face" style. I think I was a better striker than him, but under different rules this guy could have easily beaten me. You fight the match that is presented to you, right?

[MasterKiller]

:rolleyes: I'll look for more palm-strikes in the next UFC match I watch. You don't have to look hard. I think I watched Chris Leben throwing some palm strikes the other day. It happens...

[neilhytholt]

:rolleyes: I look forward to seeing your sparring examples posted here. Obviously I have a lot to learn.

Back to reality, I fought the match defending the techniques he was using. He wanted to throw and clinch. I had to continually sink my weight and try to prevent that. If he was using killer "palm-strikes" then it may have been a different match (and I would have adjusted).

This guy was a class act too. Real nice and gracious in victory and defeat. The judges did limit his use of a neck crank that might have made it a different fight if he had been allowed to freely use it. He didn't complain about that.

Yeah, you can't blame the rules ... matches are totally biased on the part of the judges, but that's the nature of the game.

When I used to do a lot of tournament sparring, I'd lose matches that I should have won. Never won when I shouldn't have, though. LOL

[Judge Pen]

Yeah, you can't blame the rules ... matches are totally biased on the part of the judges, but that's the nature of the game.

When I used to do a lot of tournament sparring, I'd lose matches that I should have won. Never won when I shouldn't have, though. LOL

I think that it all equals out in the end. I've won and lost matches that I shouldn't have. You can't take these things too seriously.

[neilhytholt]

I think that it all equals out in the end. I've won and lost matches that I shouldn't have. You can't take these things too seriously.

Yeah, IMHO these things are just practice.

If you really want to win, the strategy that I found the best is focus on hitting their head.

Body shots are a lot more ambiguous than head strikes. Usually at least 2 judges can see any head strike.

[Judge Pen]

Yeah, IMHO these things are just practice.

If you really want to win, the strategy that I found the best is focus on hitting their head.

Body shots are a lot more ambiguous than head strikes. Usually at least 2 judges can see any head strike.

I agree. I find myself head-hunting more in these types of competitions because of that.

[golden arhat]

that was some of the worst sparring ive ever seen there is more kung fu in an averages street fight were a guy goes "wouldnt it be neat if i did a kung fu technique one time in a fight) really that was mega crap

[BentMonk]

that was some of the worst sparring ive ever seen there is more kung fu in an averages street fight were a guy goes "wouldnt it be neat if i did a kung fu technique one time in a fight) really that was mega crap

Uh are we talking about the same clip here? You were expecting something like Yin Woo Ping meets UFC or what? There is no constructive criticism in your comments. Is there a clip of you posted somewhere that we may use for comparison as to what is or is not crap? :D

[Judge Pen]

that was some of the worst sparring ive ever seen there is more kung fu in an averages street fight were a guy goes "wouldnt it be neat if i did a kung fu technique one time in a fight) really that was mega crap

You mean like this? http://www.hungkuen-kungfu.com/gallery_1.htm

:eek:

What do you guys know about kung fu? You're wearing a gi! :p

http://www.hungkuen-kungfu.com/gallery_2.htm

[yu shan]

You beat me to it JP. :rolleyes: