Yan qing dao

[SBonzak]

Does anyone know if this form is only a mantis form, or is it a general dao form that is adapted by many different styles? Does anyone have any historical info about the form? Thanks.

-Steve

[xiao hu yan]

sorry for my bad english....
it is a general dao form that is adapted by many different styles.
yan qin was a boss of gang named "of 108" because it had 108 bandits....
some people think yan qin was a girl dressed like man....other people think he was a gay .... i think that: in that age man are very rude...if a man was been a little bit educated and beutiful he was cwertainly cataloged like gay....

i turn to ask you sorry for my english....

[SBonzak]

Thanks for the info. Is this a well respected dao form, a beginner form, a form that not many practice any more?

-Steve

[Shaolin Dude]

It's an advanced form in the Wah Lum system. I haven't seen it yet

[MantisCool]

To my knowledge, Yan Ching is one of the 108 heroes in the Liang Shan (mountain). Many forms be it hand or weapons are named after him.

Although, the name is the same but they are difference forms with different martial arts schools. The Yan Ching Dao form for all the lineage of LGY are the same but I dont know of the other branches of FYT.

regards
khoo

[xiao hu yan]

this form is long....

[SBonzak]

very long...

[bungbukuen]

Yan Qing Dan Dao is a fundamental set and contains a large majority of principles key to the Dao. In general fundamental sets (weapon or empty hand) probably should not be viewed as beginner becasue they in fact contain the most important cataloguing of techniques / tactics to the system in combat.

[onyomi]

This is very true. My shifu likes to comment that although we may tend to think that, for example, Da Huyan is better than Xiao Huyan, or that Taizu Yilu is better than Taizu Erlu, it is in fact usually the first form in a series that is most important, and often quite long. For example, of the "Three Flowers" (Meihua-luo, Meihua-quan and Meihua-shou), Meihua-luo is the longest.

[MantisCool]

I believe the 3-flower sets doesnt has an order. It doesnt has a numeric on it so any set can be learned first.

But we ofcourse do the easier first that is Mei Hua Sou followed by Mei Hua Quan and Mei Hua Luo last.

Regarding the Da and Xiao, from my experience, the Xiao is often more complicated but Da and Xiao are normally of different flavours altogether.

Regards
khoo

[onyomi]

Actually, my school does it in the exact opposite order, which I think is traditional. Meihua-quan and Meihua-shou, though shorter, are more complex than Meihua-luo, imo.

[bungbukuen]

IMO, rather than thinking about what (form) is more complex or what is easier, perhaps we should be thinking about what techniques / tactics / strategies / principles exist in each form, and the role each plays within the context of the entire system. Some are more fundamental than others. Some are variations and refinements. Some are more tertiary. From my understanding the most fundamental elements are taught first in any system. I think this is just common sense. For example, Beng Bu contains a lot of key material, and therefore is usually a set that is taught first. Building on this the usual core forms found within 7* include Beng Bu, Shi Ba Shou, Duo Gang, Cha Chui, give or take.

Within forms series with Xiao, Zhong, and Da, usually Xiao is the most fundamental and traditionally is taught first. Between forms series with Yi Lu, Er Lu, San Lu, etc..., usually Yi Lu is the most fundamental and is taught first. It is a general rule, but of course nothing cemented.

Like I talked about earlier, I am not really sure how you would define complex versus simple. I think taking any movement and learning how to apply it effectively and efficiently in a live fight situation is difficult - regardless if it comes from Mei Hua Lu, Mei Hua Quan, or Mei Hua Shou as exmaple. What it all comes down to is the relative degree of importance placed on each part within the system. If it is something relatively more fundamental then it is trained earlier on. On the other hand if it is something relatively less fundamental then it is obviously trained later on. This is the logic of progressive training.

From my limited experience it seems most schools train Mei Hua Lu as a form first (in relation that is to Mei Hua Shou or Mei Hua Lu). I am not saying anything is right or wrong MantisCool, but training MH Shou or MH Quan first (including drills and applications from it), says that you believe the techniques/tactics/principles/theories/strategies found in side of it are more fundametnal to the overall sytem than say Mei Hua Lu. But then again I guess it doesn't really matter what you do as long as you are learning to fight Mantis style. :)

Just some thoughts

[Young Mantis]

In regards to the 3 Plum Flower forms, Wong Hon Funn wrote an introduction in each of these books that describe both the flavors of these forms as well as the prescribed teaching order. I will paraphrase what he wrote.

In regards to the three plum flower forms, Mui Fa Lok concentrates on long range and more rigid techniques. It should be learned first. Mui Fa Kuen in comparison is the most flexible and should be learned second. Mui Fa Sau is studied last because it contains short range techniques that are used fast and tight in timing.

This may be the cause for why many prescribe a specific order to how these three forms should be learned although I do agree, it is not imperative to adhere to this order but that was what was written by WHF and we do generally follow that order.

As for the difference between forms with Dai (Big) and Siu (Small) such as Dai Ga Sik/Siu Ga Sik, Dai Fahn Tse/Siu Fahn Tse, we always teach big before small. The words do not denote necessarily complexity or difficulty but more about range and flavor of the techniques. Dai Fahn Tse and Dai Gah Sik are forms with large and long range movements and rigid in flavor like the windmill techniques. Siu Fahn Tse and Siu Ga Sik use short range techniques, are more flexible in that there are more sweeps, takedowns, joint locks.

In all of the above cases, it is generally easier to teach a student large frame before small frame. Long range techniques are easier to understand and practice. As the student develops more coordination and power generation, then they can start to reduce the large frame techniques to be more efficient and learn the short range techniques that usually require more flexibility and shorter power generation.

Vance