Starting a new style

[Fitdoc]

For the past 18 months or so, i've been training in northern shaolin under Gene's former Shaolin roomate, Frank Versagi in ohio. I've recently relocated to Columbia, SC and will begin training at a progressive MMA school. My primary focus will be muay thai and submission fighting. Has anyone transitioned from kung fu to muay thai (or vice versa) and what are the key differences i should expect?

thanks

[BlueTravesty]

I would imagine the main differences would be swinging/thrusting of Thai Roundhouse kicks versus the Snap of most CMA/JMA/KMA Roundhouse kicks. Of course there are MANY subtle differences between roundhouse kicks from style to style. I also practice a Northern style and our Roundhouse kicks are halfway between a front-kick and "normal" roundhouse kick. I'm told that the snapping kicks are not as strong as Thai-style kicks, but those Thai style kicks kill my legs. I have certain mild joint problems however, so I'm sure that doesn't help.

[EarthDragon]

while there are world's of differences I will touch on a few.
Get used to lots of application and less on learning. Thai fighting is very simple as is boxing, you will use less but do it more. They will spend hours conditioning to get hurt to me this is a waste of time but to each his own. it reminds me of the guy in radiers of the lost arch movie that brilliantly swong his sword to try to impress doctor jones ............... then he pulled out a gun and shot him. I got into a fight with a Thai guy once when he kicked I took the hit, caught the leg and tackled him, he went to the ground and the fight was over. But again to each his own...

the kicks as blue said are much different. They kick with a sweeping motion and use the top of the foot ( tarselbones) while I do not agree with this area to be the focus thats what Thai fighters use. I have tried but nothing beats the ball of the foot when kicking. Also there is no focal point to send the chi when you sweep kick the emphasis is spread over a large area instead of pin pointed, this in turn makes the kick less powerful and dramatic

[David Jamieson]

well ED, I wouldn't go so far as to say thai kicks aren't strong, they are hella strong and the striking points preferred by guys I've practiced with that have some MT training or are MT training are the shins.

Kicks in MT are more dropping and cutting, lateral and less so lifting type kicks.
straight plane and arcing downwards seems to be a lot of what is used.

In mma type fighting, you do quite a lot of conditioning for endurance, strength and durability. Medicine ball on the belly, windsprints til ya puke, plyometric madness kind of stuff.

the techniques you use are narrowed down to high percentage techniques that will work in any of the three ranges you will have to work in. Even in Kungfu, you'll probably only ever really develop a few or several techniques that you would deem a favourite and high percentage tech.

most techniques used are drilled over and over. Live mat work is done as well to further condition and refine the fighter.

You do train for a specific venue so pick your weapons wisely. Know where your strengths are range wise. Are you a good striker? Have you got it in the clinch? Is your ground work up to snuff?

wherever you are weak, work that twice as hard, but do give focus to your strongest techs, and drill em madly.

that's my coinage on the subject anyway.

[Ralphie]

Thai Boxers don't hit with the top of their foot, but rather with the bottom of the shin/right above the ankle when kicking with a roundhouse. The leg swings from outside in, like swinging a bat (Hips open, then turn over as they swing through). There's a teep kick as well that can be like a jab with your foot, although some people can do damage with this kick as well (it's like a front thrust kick). There are knees/elbows/clinch work. Hands for the most part are trained like a western boxer. There is an element of conditioning, but if you think that's a waste of time, oh well.

Obviously it's a combat sport, so there are no forms.

[David Jamieson]

Obviously it's a combat sport, so there are no forms.

according to several things I've seen and heard, there are forms of a sort in traditional muay thai training as well as inclusion of classical weapons using krabi krabong tied to the training.

as a sportive combative, muay thai in that mode doesn't use forms per se and trains stylistically but much like kickboxing trains or san shou.

[Pork Chop]

In my experience, the muay thai i've seen at mma gyms typically hasn't been to the level of a dedicated muay thai program; unless a separate instructor teaches the muay thai and it's actually a separate program that the mma guys just use to improve their standup.

If they hold their gloves low and don't put their hips into stuff (like turning it over on kicks or thrusting with the hips on knees), then it's probably more of a "mma standup" type program.

[Pork Chop]

according to several things I've seen and heard, there are forms of a sort in traditional muay thai training as well as inclusion of classical weapons using krabi krabong tied to the training.

as a sportive combative, muay thai in that mode doesn't use forms per se and trains stylistically but much like kickboxing trains or san shou.


Not all traditional muay thai has forms. Different styles of classical muay thai developed based on the provinces and regions of thailand that they originated in. I believe muay boran is just a name for this collection of traditional styles: Muay Chaiya (from Southern Thailand), Muay Korat (Northeast), Muay Ta Sao (North), and Muay Lopburi (Central). I believe Muay Chaiya is the one with the forms; according to their history they're also the style taught to the Royal Guard.

I've seen clips of taditional muay thai - muay chaiya practisioners sparring. The style reminded me of what i've seen of really old school boxing- hands constantly moving and lower stance. Their approach looked a little stiff & fidgety for my tastes, but almost all their traditional techniques are still in "modern" Muay Thai (even the "illegal" ones).

Here's a collection of clips:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search=muay+chaiya&search_type=search_videos&search=Search