Training Implements #1

[WinterPalm]

I figured after the wide range of opinions and thought that went into the Successful Sifu thread I would start one where we could talk about the use of a variety of implements used in training and how you use them.

I figured the first one could be the heavy bag as many of us are accustomed to this in the Western world from a young age. I believe it was a part of kung fu curriculum before the introduction but I am not a historian and quite ignorant in that regard...

Do you even use one?
Do you follow basic boxing techniques or more kung fu oriented ones?
What weight do you enjoy?
How has this training affected your kung fu skill?

[dainos]

I figured after the wide range of opinions and thought that went into the Successful Sifu thread I would start one where we could talk about the use of a variety of implements used in training and how you use them.

I figured the first one could be the heavy bag as many of us are accustomed to this in the Western world from a young age. I believe it was a part of kung fu curriculum before the introduction but I am not a historian and quite ignorant in that regard...

Do you even use one?
Do you follow basic boxing techniques or more kung fu oriented ones?
What weight do you enjoy?
How has this training affected your kung fu skill?

i use one for warm ups. theres only so much you can do on a bag. I use more kung fu oriented strikes. i like a 100 pound muai tai bag. good for kicks.
it hasnt affected my skill very much. it only trains endurance. for me anyway

[David Jamieson]

Do you even use one?
Do you follow basic boxing techniques or more kung fu oriented ones?
What weight do you enjoy?
How has this training affected your kung fu skill?


Yes. I use one as regular part of training.

Yes, I use basic boxing techniques and footwork but also use kungfu stance, strikes, kicks and footwork.

80-100lbs is good enough, I'd like to have a floor to ceiling bag, but don't have the ways and means for that yet.

It has affected my alignment correction, has improved my sink and root while striking and has aforded me a way to look at how to adjust to produce optimum force.

When using something such as a heavy bag, not just a target bag or light punching bag you get a real way to find incorrect structure, stance, balance and other aspects that need to be addressed.

All this stuff is something that carries forward into live training as well such as free sparring in whatever modality of force that is chosen by the participants.

from the kungfu, elbows/forearm strikes timing , spacing and force use on the heavy bag has changhed how I express it in the form. It doesn't look much different, but the structure and grounding is different.

Using force feedback can fill the shape and pattern you learn with the structure and mechanics required to deliver the forces linked with strikes/defenses etc.

doing similar techniques on a harder surface such as a mook jong (which is better for conditioning and defensive maneuvering with forces at least for me).

full on shouldering, headbutting, elbowing, kneeing, punching and kicking in timed rounds is preferable on a heavy bag. Mook jong is good for palming, trapping, cutting. blocking and learning the countering with.

sparring is next step in training after that where what's learned is applied.

[Wu Wei Wu]

changing the topic slightly...

heavy bag very good for footwork and power. focus pads good for speed and accuracy and very versatile.

also use heavy bag for ground and pound.

other implements that are useful:
powerball for forearms
physio bands for all manner of training
skipping rope
wooden dummy
also with partner use various pads etc for striking, eg partner wears goggles and moves around while you practise finger jab to eyes.

[hskwarrior]

I use what is sometimes called a banana bag. it's about 8 feet tall, maybe 7. close to 100lbs.

The banana bag is perfect for choy lee fut training. especially for sow choy training.

The banana bag is hooked up and swings freely. I use that swing motion to imitiate someone coming in on you to side step of even circle it at times.

thanks for the thread.


hsk

[WinterPalm]

I'm a big fan of the heavybag. When I was a kid my dad had one hanging in the basement and I've always enjoyed hitting it even before I was into martial arts.
I use it for basic strikes, footwork movement, and complex combinations of techniques from sets.
I really like the wavemaster floor standing bag as well. It gives you a different type of feedback and as a child I also had one of those clown things with a solid base that bounced back when you hit it.
Right now I use a 100pd bag but I'd like to use a 150 or 200 sometime in the near future. I firmly believe it bigger and heavier is better in this regards.

It is also great for letting loose some aggression or stress and when combined with meditation makes for a lethal dose of calm.

[David Jamieson]

Getting a mook jong will add to your force feedback practice in a big way.
even if you have to fashion one together yourself.

Together with striking work on pads and bags, teh jong is a very important implement. Heck it can even be just a sturdy tree.

[WinterPalm]

I was thinking about wooden men last night and one of the biggest drawbacks for a kung fu practioner is that when training on the heavybag you cannot do so many techniques imperative to bridging and grabbing limbs, necks, or legs. The wooden man definately fills in the bridging gap and I can see why it was designed for kung fu practice.
I have trained on my Sifu's dummy which resides at a training brother's place currently. Very cool device and someday if I ever have a house I will look into having one made to the specs.
I am not a large fan of the wing chun style dummy as the arms are short...at least the one I trained on for a couple months. Fun to drill but a little impractial...giving the thing longer arms really makes for a more realistic training implement...as realistic as a non-moving wooden man can be!

[David Jamieson]

the wing chun dummy drills are good for any jong really.
but drills for the dummy can be drawn out of combinations in the material you already know as well as the obvious and self evident stuff that is there.

palming, trapping, rolling, pulling, pushing, kicking, targeting, all that stuff is good on a dummy.

for the heavy bag is footwork, striking (head, elbows, fists, kicks, slaps etc etc), combos, pushes, ranging, speed to target (stepping in/stepping out) planting (root/strike).

some stuff maps across, my personal view is that the jong is good for refined inside close work. it can be anything from traditional to modern drills as well.

also, just because it's old doesn't mean it doesn't work.

[Eddie]

I saw the video on the Chilli CLF school someone posted here. One place they show the CLF dummy that they use for staff training. It has bells or something on the sides which you have to stab with your staff. Looked really cool, and I can imagine that it could help your staff technique too.

I wont be able to train without a punching bag. It’s the best way to warm up
:cool: