Why do other sifu's hate on other sifu's

[im_dabich]

:p
You know I have seen a lot of hateing on here, and in real life.. There is a lot of either jealousey or something between a lot of sifu's well and masters too.. Can't we all just get along? LoL.... There is no room in life for hate. Life should be full of happiness, fun, and hard work.. We dont need to hate other people or be mean to other people.. If you have that much knowledge then you should share it.. Not act like 2 year old's with the whole "thats mine" crap.. Does anyone else have an opinion on this? Why do sifu's hate on other sifu's?

[Emeraldphoenix]

Dont be discouraged. very common place in the world of MA.

Competition, politics and ego. are the main drive behind this. Just normal human behavior.

Just look beyond it. focus on your self and you will be just fine.

[David Jamieson]

im_dabich

do you not harbour a little ill will towards another?
Is there not a person out there in the world who pushes your buttons and raises your ire?

In any line of practice, you will find detractors and supporters.
Standing up for yourself isn;t always hating on someone, it can be refuting, rebutting, or simply a heated debate or argument.

there is competition and tehre are people who feel that things need to be done in a certain way while others find results with a different path and occasionally point that out and in the form of comparitive analysis which in turn will detract from what someone else is doing.

That's when the teardrops start...fella. :p

[Royal Dragon]

When you get a bunch of fighters all together, they are goi'n to.....ahh.. FIGHT!

[MasterKiller]

When you get a bunch of fighters all together, they are goi'n to.....ahh.. FIGHT!

either that, or they'll spend hours talking about flan. It's a toss up in most cases.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Mmmmmm... Flan!!

Be well..

[SPJ]

In theory, we are all students of the first teacher/ o sensei one way or another.

We may have different oppinions about theory and practice from our own "experiences".

usually, there are more things in common then we realize that are "different".

right or wrong? my way is da only way? may not be so?

Im da bomb or Im da man?

:D

[Chief Fox]

Actually, NO! We all can't get along. If we did, the world would be a very boring place.

I hate threads like this.

[Scott R. Brown]

I hate threads like this.

I hate people who hate threads like this, and the people who start them!!!;)

In truth, out of conflict comes growth!

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Indeed, growth comes from conflict.. but it can just as easily come from harmony, from common purpose and unified intention.. attachment to conflict is a conditioned perspective.. combined resources unburdened by reserves held against the prospect of conflict are much more useful toward common purpose and acheivement..

Be well..

[scholar]

As long as the purpose and intention of others agrees with yours, naturally...

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..


As long as the purpose and intention of others agrees with yours, naturally...LOL.. absolutely, otherwise.. we dispose of the bodies..

Be well..

[im_dabich]

In theory, we are all students of the first teacher/ o sensei one way or another.

We may have different oppinions about theory and practice from our own "experiences".

usually, there are more things in common then we realize that are "different".

right or wrong? my way is da only way? may not be so?

Im da bomb or Im da man?

:D
Sorry but I'm Da BYTCH is what my name means

[Mas Judt]

Because all the other guys S@CK!!

:D

[Scott R. Brown]

Greetings..

Indeed, growth comes from conflict.. but it can just as easily come from harmony, from common purpose and unified intention.. attachment to conflict is a conditioned perspective.. combined resources unburdened by reserves held against the prospect of conflict are much more useful toward common purpose and acheivement..

Be well..


Hi TaiChiBob,

We must not confuse conflict with battle/war. Battle/War is a subset of conflict, but conflict is not necessarily battle/war. Conflict is any form of disequilibrium, which is dissatisfaction with the status quo. Desire for something we don’t have creates disequilibrium it is this desire that creates conflict. If we are in harmony/equilibrium we feel no need for change. Change is the process of returning to equilibrium from disequilibrium.

For example, let us say I am sitting in the middle of a field. It begins to rain. I get wet and cold from the rain. If I maintain a harmonious attitude I am unconcerned with the rain and I will not be motivated to move indoors out of the rain. If I become uncomfortable due to the rain, that is, cold I am in a state of disequilibrium and I am motivated to move out of the rain. This movement out of the rain is change. It is motivated by a disharmony within me that comes about from my dissatisfaction with being cold. The conflict is the difference between what state I am in, wet and cold, with what I want, to be warm and dry. This conflict motivates me to change my condition by moving out of the rain. When we are happy (in balance) we have no inner motivation to change.

The process of equilibrium/harmony to disequilibrium and returning to equilibrium is the process of conflict. When what I have or want changes to what I don’t want I feel an inner conflict and this motivates me to change and/or grow in order to return to what I want. All change occurs due to this process. Change does not occur without some form of disequilibrium/conflict to motivate it.

Balance/harmony is not a static point. It is a subtle alternation between Yin and Yang conditions. Consider standing on one foot. If we focus our awareness on the standing foot we will notice that we are not actually standing still, there is a very slight and subtle alternation of the ankle from side to side that maintains an overall “appearance” of balance.

From harmony/balance comes disharmony/conflict, from conflict comes harmony; from Yin comes Yang, from Yang comes Yin. When observing the process of Tao in human activities we will observe that change is born from conflict. When humans are in a state of harmony there is no necessity for change and change does not occur.

[SanHeChuan]

im_dabich

Have you ever met someones who's views and opinions are antithetical to yours? These people are commonly know as a$$holes ;) , and sometimes they practice MA.

[Scott R. Brown]

TaiChiBob Continued….

What you are referring to is co-operation.

When a number of individuals work together towards a common purpose it is co-operation. To get to their goal they work in harmony. However, whenever we have more than one person working together there will be conflict as to how to arrive at the goal. From this conflict an outcome occurs that hopefully strikes some kind of balance between the conflicting views.

When a group works together for a common purpose they are working ‘towards” something else. This something else is something other than what they have. This desire to work towards something else is a reflection of the conflict or dissatisfaction with what they have. The reason they are working ‘towards” something is because they have a “desire” for a changed condition of some sort.

Keep in mind that not everyone on the planet views life as philosophically as you or I. We live in a conditioned state of being and it this conditioned state of being to which I refer. The conditioned state of being is ruled by the processes of Tao and Tao is symbolized by Yin-Yang. Yin-Yang is an illustration of the process of conflict that is, the harmonious conflict of contrasting principles. It is this conflict that creates change. If we did not have the contrasting principles to conflict with one and other all there would be is ONE!! With ONE there is no change, no conflict! With TWO or more there is always conflict which motivates and creates change!

[Chief Fox]

Without hate, there can be no love. Without darkness there can be no light. Without sadness, there can be no joy. Without Ying, there can be no Yang.

Our world requires hatred in order for love to exist.

So like i said ealier, without hate, the world would be a very boring place.

[Scott R. Brown]

Without hate, there can be no love. Without darkness there can be no light. Without sadness, there can be no joy. Without Ying, there can be no Yang.

Our world requires hatred in order for love to exist.

So like i said ealier, without hate, the world would be a very boring place.

Actually there is no requirement for Hate to exist. Yin and Yang are contrasting principles. They are opposite in a sense, but not in the sense that many think of opposites.

All that is necessary is for something to contrast with Love. Therefore we may have “Love” and “that which is not Love” or Love and “that which is less than Love”, Hate is not required!

I return to my favorite illustration of this principle, the “Three Bowls of Water Allegory”!

Let us say I have three bowls of water. One has water that is 40*F, one has water that is 60*F and one has water that is 80*F. The question is, is the water in the 60*F bowl warm or cool? The answer is, it is both, or it is neither depending upon the perspective with which one chooses to describe it. It is warm if it is contrasted with the 40*F water and it is cool if it is contrasted with the 80*F water, but inherently it is only 60*F water. Our experience of the 60*F water is determined by the context, by what we contrast it with. It is inherently neither warm nor cool.

We use terms like Love and Hate, Hot and Cold as conventions to describe contrasting states. Because we confuse the terms with the actual states we may be led to believe that the states are opposites in fact, but they are not opposites in reality, merely contrasting states according to a specific context. When the context is changed the quality of the phenomena is experienced differently.

[BlueTravesty]

... videogames!

For example, from videogames I learned that if I will jeopardize my health or even die if I come into any sort of contact with anything that moves around and is not me. I must dodge and/or dispose of these entities (hereafter referred to as "non-me's") with a variety of creative and improvised weapons before the timer runs out or I will also die and have to start over.

So therefore, when you exchange posts with someone on the internet (which qualifies as contact) you risk your life unless you take active steps to plot their demise in the arena of ideas. I'd better dig around for more pennies just in case. I need at least 100 to survive that Pahrump thread.

[Chizica]

"Fear leads to Anger, Anger leads to Hate, Hate leads to The Dark Side".

And that's all I have to say about that. ;)

[TenTigers]

Goya makes a nice pre=packaged flan, and it can be found in most groceries, definately in the Spanish neighborhoods. Is creme brule' the same thing as flan, only with the top carmelized?

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Hi Scott: We have differing perspectives of "conflict".. while i may have differing opinions compared to another's, if we are seeking the best solution and are willing to change opinion's in light of better evidence, i sense no conflict.. i sense unity of purpose and no conflict.. but, if one or the other struggles to prevail, regardless of evidence, conflict is manifested... if, i yield under pressure but maintain balance there is no conflict.. but, if i resist pressure, balance or not, i am in conflict with the situation.. if i apply pressure but my opponent yields and unites with my force, he has created a harmony in his favor.. i have pushed into emptiness, no conflict.. he has added (cooperated) force in the direction of my intended push, no conflict.. just an outcome different than i intended.. from my perspective, conflict implies struggle or resistance..

The process of equilibrium/harmony to disequilibrium and returning to equilibrium is the process of conflict. When what I have or want changes to what I don’t want I feel an inner conflict and this motivates me to change and/or grow in order to return to what I want. All change occurs due to this process. Change does not occur without some form of disequilibrium/conflict to motivate it.
Here is where i perceive our subtle difference of perception.. as long as we are agreed to seek the necessary change to restore equilibrium we are in harmony with the natural processes.. resistance to change or forced manipulation to effect change is my perception of conflict.. but, given your perspective (and i do not assert it as incorrect), your description is valid and worthy of consideration..

At the core of our experiences is the intention we put to them.. regardless of the means of achievement, a harmony of intention may negate the appearance of conflict in the limited perspective in favor of its contribution to achievement in the broader perspective.. not unlike your bowls of water analogy.. Thanks for the dialogue, as always.. thought provoking and pleasant..

Be well..

[David Jamieson]

"Fear leads to Anger, Anger leads to Hate, Hate leads to The Dark Side".

And that's all I have to say about that. ;)

uh, you forgot the rest about what leads to doobies and twinkies.

man, people need to put scripture like that into context! :mad:


:D

[SPJ]

"Fear leads to Anger, Anger leads to Hate, Hate leads to The Dark Side".

And that's all I have to say about that. ;)

Is this from "star war" the movie?

actually, expectation leads to frustration. anything short of expected makes you frustrated. frustration leads to anger. anger leads to fury etc.

fear comes from not knowing something fully. fear only leads to more fear and then panic.

hate comes from extreme frustration?

you have to love something so much and you hate to lose it?

so you love your school so much you hate other schools?

---

:confused:

[David Jamieson]

I wouldn't put a lot into the "philosophy of the jedi" lol.

If I was Luke, here's how my conversation with Yoda would have gone.

Yoda: "Do or do not, there is no try"

Me: "I will do my best"

I love the inane and banal utterances that is passed offf as wisdom by some. Star wars is a great source of the inane and banal, but as a sci-fi serial flick, it's great! zap pow slice breath in/out etc etc

[Asia]

:p
You know I have seen a lot of hateing on here, and in real life.. There is a lot of either jealousey or something between a lot of sifu's well and masters too.. Can't we all just get along? LoL.... There is no room in life for hate. Life should be full of happiness, fun, and hard work.. We dont need to hate other people or be mean to other people.. If you have that much knowledge then you should share it.. Not act like 2 year old's with the whole "thats mine" crap.. Does anyone else have an opinion on this? Why do sifu's hate on other sifu's?

If we could all get along then we wouldn't have Martial Arts.;)

[TenTigers]

http://www.cookingforengineers.com/article.php?id=32 :p

[tattooedmonk]

.......ego!!

[Scott R. Brown]

Hi TaiChiBob,

I understand it may appear a matter of semantics or how we each view the same principle from a different perspective, but calling a library a “learning resource center” does not change the fact it is a library, “A rose by any other name is still a rose!” Conflict is part of life; it is illustrated by the dynamic of Yin-Yang. There may be an element of cooperation found within conflict, but that does not change the inherent presence of conflict within the world system.

Our discussion here represents a conflict. I have views I share that are different from the views you share. When we engage in a discussion concerning our differing views, despite the cordiality of it, it is still a conflict between contrasting views. Even if neither of us agrees in the end we are changed in some manner due to the interaction (conflict).


…while i may have differing opinions compared to another's, if we are seeking the best solution and are willing to change opinion's in light of better evidence, i sense no conflict...

If your views were unified (harmonious, in equilibrium) there would be no need to change your opinions. Because your views are in conflict one or both must “change” in order to restore harmony (regain balance, reach an agreement).

What you have described by your example here is a productive and beneficial resolution of conflict using reason to reach compromise. The conflict was present; it was how you resolved the conflict that gives the appearance of no conflict. Further, the fact that you and your partner, in this example, are working “towards a solution” implies there was a dilemma (conflict) to resolve in the first place. There was a condition present that was not satisfactory to what was desired. This is a conflict between what you had and what you wanted. Most likely you and your partner had at least slightly different methods of arriving at your desired result. This is also a conflict. The fact you resolved your conflict of ideas easily due to your common goal, maturity and reason does not eliminate the fact that conflict was present.

Remember that conflict is what motivates change. In your example, one or both of you changed their view of how to solve the dilemma in order to arrive at a mutually beneficial resolution and the solution to the dilemma created a changed condition as well.


…i sense unity of purpose and no conflict…

Here you are focusing on the positive manner in which the conflict was resolved. I agree at times it may be more beneficial to focus on positive aspects rather than negative; however conflict was present to motivate a solution which caused a change in condition. It seems that you may have a general idea that conflict is a negative condition. Conflict is neither a positive nor negative condition, it merely IS. It is a condition of life. Positive or negative views concerning conflict are what individual’s project onto the phenomenon of conflict and are not its inherent value. Conflict exists! It motivates change! There is no inherent positive or negative value to it; it is what we bring to the conflict, our attitude towards it that determines the value for us!


…if one or the other struggles to prevail, regardless of evidence, conflict is manifested...

Conflict is present from the beginning. There IS a struggle to prevail. It is just that the solution, in your example, is more important to the parties than the ego attachment each has to which solution is chosen. Because of this the inherent conflict is not perceived. The struggle, in your example, merely follows a more productive method. A discussion of varying points of view occurs. Evidence is provide by each party regarding their reasoning for preferring their particular view and an agreed upon a method for determining the best action to follow occurs. It may involve testing methods, arguing points, drawing straws, etc. This method is nice and tidy, however it is only effective when dealing with individuals with common goals and a willingness to compromise. What would your reaction be if your partner demanded a solution your experience repeatedly informed you would not work and was in fact dangerous to yourself, your family and others? What if your partner was convinced their view was right and your view was wrong? This would demonstrate a conflict of a different quality, but both remain conflicts.


…if i yield under pressure but maintain balance there is no conflict…but, if i resist pressure, balance or not, i am in conflict with the situation...

If you have the need to yield you are perceiving conflict. The conflict may not have been physically manifested, but you perceived it as impending and this caused a reaction. In this circumstance, perception of conflict may be visual as in the perception of an approaching force, or physical as in the physical pressure you mention. The fact you have yielded is merely your chosen solution to the conflict. Here is what has occured:

1) You are occupying a specific space.
2) You feel a pressure on you to move. This pressure IS the conflict whether it is a physical pressure or a psychological pressure manifested by your interpretation of an impending event.
3) You choose to yield (move yourself out of) your presently occupied space.
4) This yielding is “a change” in position in response to the conflict perceived. The conflict, which was manifested as pressure (psychological or physical), caused you to change your position by yielding your occupied space.
5) Conflict caused change.

Yielding to pressure is merely one choice that may be made concerning how to resolve conflict. Let us consider a similar example where you might choose to resist the pressure. A person is moving towards you in an uncontrolled manner. You are all that stands between this individual and the edge of a cliff. Instead of yielding you might resist the forward movement (pressure). Once again, the forward pressure IS the conflict. Your resistance CHANGES the forward movement and, most likely, your position was CHANGED in order to effectively and safely stop the forward momentum. The forward momentum was the conflict; in order to resolve it CHANGE was necessary.


…if i apply pressure but my opponent yields and unites with my force, he has created a harmony in his favor.. i have pushed into emptiness, no conflict.. he has added (cooperated) force in the direction of my intended push, no conflict.. just an outcome different than i intended...

Your act of pressure creates the conflict. Your opponent must react and he will change. His change, whether it is to yield to your pressure or to be forced to move by you, are both stimulated by your action of pressure. The pressure (conflict) created change.

Your pressure represents conflict because you are “imposing” a force upon an otherwise stable (balanced) condition. You are creating a circumstance where your opponent WILL change. He was in a condition of balance and your pressure caused him to change in order to maintain his balance. If you had not imposed a force upon him he would have had no reason to change his condition to retain balance. If he had not changed his condition he would have become unbalanced. Either one is change caused by your application of force. You created a conflict that caused him to change in order to maintain a condition that he preferred that is, he prefers to remain balanced. To do this he was required to change in accordance with the conflict you created.

Your opponent may unify his force with yours, but once he seeks to change your force in any manner, whether by increasing it, decreasing it, or redirecting it, conflict has resumed.

[Scott R. Brown]

TaiChiBob continued...


…from my perspective, conflict implies struggle or resistance...

Yes I understand that, but conflict is any condition where a particular state of being is imposed upon by a force. So in Tai Chi practice, if you are blending with your opponent to redirect his force, you have 1) reacted to his initial imposing force, which is a changed condition for you, and 2) changed his force of movement by redirecting it towards a goal or direction other than his original intent. In both cases change was caused by the imposition of an external force and this force WAS the conflict that stimulated the change.

If you are standing in a balanced position and another individual attempts to change your balanced position by imposing a force, in order for you to maintain your balance you MUST change in some manner. You must either resist his force with greater force or yield and move. Both are conditions of change stimulated by the imposition of force. It is just that your personal choice is to yield rather than resist. Since you MUST react to the force in some manner, change WILL occur as a result of the force. The force is the conflict. I may perceive the conflict with my eyes and respond by moving rather than choosing to engage the force with my body, but it is still conflict that I am reacting too. One is merely impending physical conflict while the other is a physical manifestation of conflict. This is why many Masters are not seen to engage each other in physical combat. Their battle is one of spirit or mind. There is still conflict occurring it is merely of a more subtle quality. Just because the conflict is not apparent on a physical level does not mean it has not occurred.

If your opponent is approaching you with force and you yield your space without contacting him then your removal of what he would interpret as impending resistance would cause a change in him. In this case the conflict he experiences that causes him to change or attempt to change his momentum has it origins from within himself. He EXPECTED resistance, this resistance did not occur. The difference between what he wanted (expected) and what occurred created a conflict between his intent and what actually occurred. This caused a change in his expected outcome. In this circumstance it was the removal of force (expected resistance) that was the cause of change. In other words, your method of change caused a change in his method, LOL!!;)


…as long as we are agreed to seek the necessary change to restore equilibrium we are in harmony with the natural processes.. resistance to change or forced manipulation to effect change is my perception of conflict...

The decision to change in order to restore equilibrium IS a reaction to an external force that has caused or seeks to cause disequilibrium and therein resides the conflict. If there was no conflict there would be no reason to “restore” equilibrium. Once again, it is conflict that creates change! It appears to me that you view “choosing to follow the least resistant path to achieve the goal” as equivalent to eliminating conflict, but this is not the case! There is no need to change or restore anything if balance or equilibrium is present. It is when disequilibrium occurs or is perceived about to occur that change is stimulated in order to restore or preserve equilibrium. This change is caused by conflict.


As always a most enjoyable conversation my friend! :)

P.S. In retrospect, in selected circumstances, perhaps it would be more accurate to substitute the term "external force" and "force" with "external stimulus" and "stimulus"! I'm just too lazy to go back and change it all! LOL!

[Oso]

because teachers from other styles smell funny.



sheesh, everyone here want's to overcomplicate every issue that comes up.:rolleyes:

[Minghequan]

The short answer is simply : Ego and Politics! Sad but true.

[Oso]

No, you're wrong.

It's the differing qi gong's.

each qi gong changes you biochemically and your sweat changes and you smell different.

on top of that, your sense of smell becomes more sensative to other qi gong smells and can't stand it to the point of being an ass about it.

It's simple: no body wants to admit that they stink.

[SPJ]

It's simple: no body wants to admit that they stink.

agreed. we used to say that I think you stink. and then my bro would say you stink--ER.

now we would say that you suck. and then my bro would say you suck--ER.

alright then.

we both stink and suck at what we do.

:D

[Oso]

agreed. we used to say that I think you stink. and then my bro would say you stink--ER.

now we would say that you suck. and then my bro would say you suck--ER.

alright then.

we both stink and suck at what we do.

:D

I and I, my friend.

If we all agreed we stinked and sucked at what we did...we'd all be happy and training and drinking good beer together at the end of the day.

:)

peace ya'll

g'night

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Scott: By your analogy: I am standing in waist deep water.. a wave approaches.. i manuever a position of least resistance (i.e.: duck under water), cooperate with the impending force.. the wave is just being a wave, no conflicting intention.. i am responding to a natural occurance, no conflicting intentiion.. Your analogy implies that all change is related to conflict, which is itself a personal value system.. it is clear that we differ in our concept of conflict, i require an intention.. Webster indicates "hostile, opposing, antagonistic", none of which are present in the wave analogy..

Crap!! now i forgot how we got into this dialogue...

We must not confuse conflict with battle/war. Battle/War is a subset of conflict, but conflict is not necessarily battle/war. Conflict is any form of disequilibrium, which is dissatisfaction with the status quo. Desire for something we don’t have creates disequilibrium it is this desire that creates conflict. If we are in harmony/equilibrium we feel no need for change. Change is the process of returning to equilibrium from disequilibrium. Oh yeah, this was it.. where you advocate conflict as inherent to imbalance (disequilibrium) through the desire to return to balance.. i advocate opportunity until i intend to "oppose" or become "hostile or antagonistic".. if the stimulus is embraced and change is effected without opposition, i sense no conflict.. in an effort to arrive at a consistency of concepts based on linguistic interpretations, i find it useful to make clear distinctions.. by isolating "conflict" to a condition of intention it simplifies communication, more closely conforms to a standard (Webster), and reduces ambiguities of nuance.. or, everything would be conflict.. not unlike the Buddhist idea the life is "suffering"..:D

Be well....

[David Jamieson]

Relative to many others, I do not stink or suck in the least.
Relative to Many others, I clearly need work and stink and suck a little.
Relative to a few I stink and suck.

That's generally how it plays out in anything.

But otherwise, It's mostly because "they" stink and suck, and that's why all the trash talk. :D

[hungganyc]

There are still sifus who speak out against other sifus because of a moral, ethical, & traditional obligation. this doesn't apply only to kung fu. it's not always politics.
Unfortunately there are always three sides to every story.

[lkfmdc]

Without hate, there can be no love. Without darkness there can be no light. Without sadness, there can be no joy. Without Ying, there can be no Yang.

Our world requires hatred in order for love to exist.

So like i said ealier, without hate, the world would be a very boring place.

without cheese, there would be no macaroni

without the meat ball, the spaghetti would be plain

without the pole, the dancer would just be naked

what was this thread about anyway? :confused:

[hskwarrior]

without hair bigfoot would just be a normal naked man.

without alligators (? spelling) boots would just be boots.

without money, we'd all be broke.........


but i don't know what's happening anymore:(

[David Jamieson]

If there were no men in the world, what remains would be a lot of fat happy lesbians and a zero crime rate.

If there were no women in the world, nothing would have ever been invented and there would be bands of roving predators seeking out other camps to destroy and steal their food. The h0mo stuff goes without question.

In a primal sense, men are bad and women are good. Go figure why many religions and philosophies got that ass backwards.

and what it all really boils down to is this:

my dog eats meat.

[hskwarrior]

WTF?:confused:

i JUST DON'T GET IT:(

[SPJ]

men will always be men.

women will always be women.

dogs will always like to eat meat.

things being things are.

the question is about how to get along with things and move forward as a whole.

stressing everything in its purest/extreme way?

or life is just about mixing things up or balancing all values!

:confused:

[lkfmdc]

men will always be men.

women will always be women.



Haven't been in the Chelsea area of NYC have you? :eek:

[David Jamieson]

Haven't been in the Chelsea area of NYC have you? :eek:
..or a good chunk of san fran apparently. :D

[Eddie]

definatly san francisco :cool:

[lkfmdc]

I met her in a club down in old soho
Where you drink champagne and it tastes just like cherry-cola
C-o-l-a cola
She walked up to me and she asked me to dance
I asked her her name and in a dark brown voice she said lola
L-o-l-a lola lo-lo-lo-lo lola

Well I’m not the world’s most physical guy
But when she squeezed me tight she nearly broke my spine
Oh my lola lo-lo-lo-lo lola
Well I’m not dumb but I can’t understand
Why she walked like a woman and talked like a man
Oh my lola lo-lo-lo-lo lola lo-lo-lo-lo lola

Well we drank champagne and danced all night
Under electric candlelight
She picked me up and sat me on her knee
And said dear boy won’t you come home with me
Well I’m not the world’s most passionate guy
But when I looked in her eyes well I almost fell for my lola
Lo-lo-lo-lo lola lo-lo-lo-lo lola
Lola lo-lo-lo-lo lola lo-lo-lo-lo lola

I pushed her away
I walked to the door
I fell to the floor
I got down on my knees
Then I looked at her and she at me

Well that’s the way that I want it to stay
And I always want it to be that way for my lola
Lo-lo-lo-lo lola
Girls will be boys and boys will be girls
It’s a mixed up muddled up shook up world except for lola
Lo-lo-lo-lo lola

Well I left home just a week before
And I’d never ever kissed a woman before
But lola smiled and took me by the hand
And said dear boy I’m gonna make you a man

Well I’m not the world’s most masculine man
But I know what I am and I’m glad I’m a man
And so is lola
Lo-lo-lo-lo lola lo-lo-lo-lo lola
Lola lo-lo-lo-lo lola lo-lo-lo-lo lola

[Chief Fox]

without cheese, there would be no macaroni

without the meat ball, the spaghetti would be plain

without the pole, the dancer would just be naked

what was this thread about anyway? :confused:
Without beer there can be no hang over.

Without hang overs there can be no tylenol.

Without tylenol there can be no headaches.

without headaches there can be no stress.

without stress there can be no beer.

So you see, it all makes complete sense.

[Pork Chop]

yay for the Kinks :)

[Scott R. Brown]

Without beer there can be no hang over.

Without hang overs there can be no tylenol.

Without tylenol there can be no headaches.

without headaches there can be no stress.

without stress there can be no beer.

So you see, it all makes complete sense.

Thus the Chinese concept of "mutally arising"!

[Scott R. Brown]

Greetings..

Scott: By your analogy: I am standing in waist deep water.. a wave approaches.. i manuever a position of least resistance (i.e.: duck under water), cooperate with the impending force.. the wave is just being a wave, no conflicting intention.. i am responding to a natural occurance, no conflicting intentiion.. Your analogy implies that all change is related to conflict, which is itself a personal value system.. it is clear that we differ in our concept of conflict, i require an intention.. Webster indicates "hostile, opposing, antagonistic", none of which are present in the wave analogy..

Oh yeah, this was it.. where you advocate conflict as inherent to imbalance (disequilibrium) through the desire to return to balance.. i advocate opportunity until i intend to "oppose" or become "hostile or antagonistic".. if the stimulus is embraced and change is effected without opposition, i sense no conflict.. in an effort to arrive at a consistency of concepts based on linguistic interpretations, i find it useful to make clear distinctions.. by isolating "conflict" to a condition of intention it simplifies communication, more closely conforms to a standard (Webster), and reduces ambiguities of nuance.. or, everything would be conflict.. not unlike the Buddhist idea the life is "suffering"..:D

Be well....

Hi TaiChiBob,

Yes, I understand your perspective, but everything IS in conflict. This is not a personal value judgment; it is an objective fact of the dualistic system in which we live. I place no emotional value upon this description. I merely observe the facts and report them. Perhaps it is how I choose to explain the principle that seems to cause you to consider it a personal value. Perhaps it is what the meaning of conflict implies to you that causes you to project your personal values onto the term. It appears to me that, to you, conflict has a negative connotation; to me it is merely an operative principle of Tao!

The dictionary definition you provide is incomplete. Remember that it isn’t the dictionary that determines definitions of terms; people do! Terms are defined by the people using them. The authors of dictionaries merely record the definitions of the terms used by other people for the benefit of the general populace. It is not the dictionary then that is the final arbiter of a term’s definition, but how the term is used by the populace. Having said that, one of the definitions you have provided is “opposing” and this is exactly what occurs with all conflict. One condition or state of being “opposes” another! Yin opposes Yang. Yang opposes Yin. (I would agree that they are also mutually cooperative.) It is this opposition (conflict) that creates change. When a stabilized condition is “opposed” by a force or stimulus the stabilized condition becomes destabilized. It is the return to stability that IS the change that occurs to that which was destabilized.

Conflict occurs when a stable/balanced condition is “opposed” by a disruptive or unbalancing stimulus or force. We may also so say that “a present condition is changed when it is met with an ‘opposing’ condition”. This “opposing condition” is what causes change in the stable condition. Without some form of “opposing condition” there would be no change. Since growth IS a change in condition, growth occurs as a result of conflict, a destabilizing/unbalancing stimulus, an “opposing condition”.

It is irrelevant if the destabilizing stimulus has the intent to unbalance; it creates the imbalance non-the-less! It is because “intent to destabilize” is NOT necessary that conflict is merely an “active principle of Tao” with no inherent emotional value attached and not a personal value judgment! The intent to create conflict is not necessarily found within the stimulus, but it is perceived and reacted to by the person destabilized and “to them” it represents conflict because it has caused an imbalance in an otherwise stable condition. It causes an undesired condition to occur and this undesired condition (what we presently have) is at variance with what we want. When this occurs there is conflict and we change in order to get what we want (a return to balance).

It is in the nature of man to pursue stability/balance. Once we are in a balanced condition we tend to prefer to remain there. There is a sense of security (balance) that occurs that impedes continued growth. For further growth/change to occur there must be a reason for it to occur. The reason for change manifests itself when what I have is different from what I want that is, when what I have is in “opposition” to what I want. When what I have is in “opposition” to what I want I experience a condition of disequilibrium which is an internal conflict within myself. When I feel this conflict I am motivated to move towards what I want. This movement towards what I want is the change that occurs in order for me to restore my equilibrium. When the change that occurs is for my general benefit, then this change may be referred to as growth. Therefore, conflict is the source or stimulus of growth!

When you are standing in the water you may be considered to be in a stable or balanced condition. The wave coming towards you causes you to change your condition. The wave is an external force or stimulus that is “opposing” your stability. In order to maintain your stability you must change. That is, you must strengthen your stance (meet the force with greater force), change your stance (duck under the water) or accommodate the force (flow with the wave) all three represent change and none would be necessary had the “opposing” force of the wave not impacted on your stability. If there was no wave there would be no reason to change.

In your example, you chose to “cooperate with the impending force” of the wave because it was “opposing” your position of stability whether that stability was emotional or physical does not matter. The wave represents a force or stimulus that caused you to change! That “opposing” force was the conflict that you reacted too and caused your change in condition of being! The fact you chose to move (change) in some manner means that you were reacting to an impending conflict an "opposing" force!

;)

[David Jamieson]

omg!!! Ray Davies did a tranny!!!??

I'm shattered!

[SPJ]

Haven't been in the Chelsea area of NYC have you? :eek:

yes. My college mate was from Bangkok, Thailand. He warned me about the pretty girls you see on the street may not be all that.

they have a street that is full of xxy, xyy and what not.

:eek:

:D

[SPJ]

Without beer there can be no hang over.

Without hang overs there can be no tylenol.

Without tylenol there can be no headaches.

without headaches there can be no stress.

without stress there can be no beer.

So you see, it all makes complete sense.

it is A circle.

:)

[BlueTravesty]

yes. My college mate was from Bangkok, Thailand. He warned me about the pretty girls you see on the street may not be all that.

they have a street that is full of xxy, xyy and what not.

:eek:

:D

Wait... I thought xxy or xyy was... whatsit called "gigantism?" Like Andre the Giant?

I knew I shoulda paid more attention in Biology :confused:

[neilhytholt]

The question isn't, do sifus hate on other sifus.

The question is, how good are they hating? Do they just hate the sifus in a petty way, like jealousy, or angry hating?

Or do they plot and scheme to steal away the other sifus students?

How good is your sifu really at hating on other sifus? Is your sifu a worthy hater that you can learn from? Or is just a mediocre hater?

???

[im_dabich]

The question isn't, do sifus hate on other sifus.

The question is, how good are they hating? Do they just hate the sifus in a petty way, like jealousy, or angry hating?

Or do they plot and scheme to steal away the other sifus students?

How good is your sifu really at hating on other sifus? Is your sifu a worthy hater that you can learn from? Or is just a mediocre hater?

???

Ya I should have put that insted.. In that case answer the questions that Neil asked.. Those questions sound better.

My sifu hates on other sifus really good, I cant stand it, He is very worthy of it well he actually only hates on one certin sifu who is a member on here so i cant say his name.. But he is from Alton Illinois........ shhhhhhhh... Well I love reading everything all thease ppl say on here it give me something to laugh about in the mornin.. Have a nice day yall ttyl bi bi :p

[SPJ]

Then it is boiled down to being self confident and competitive in a friendly way.

If somebody is better than you in a said style/school, then emulate, match up and go beyond.

If somebody emulates or copies or steals your stuff, be proud and move on.

--

This reminded me of the movie "fearless/Huo Yuan Jia/Spirit".

The beggar watched Jet Li on Lei Tai so many times and always said "Jing Cheng Di Yi" or number one in the city.

The question is when. the beggar said "Juo Zhai Jing Tian" or it is today.

A practitioner always "better"s himself with or without opponents to match up.

You would know how "well" you are today and then tommorrow.

Do you have to prove it by "defeating" everyone under the sun?

:rolleyes:

[TenTigers]

it kinda worries me that lkfmdc knows all the lyrics to Lola. (I;m hoping he doesn't know all the lyrics to Sweet Transvestite):eek:
of course, that being said, I must admit one of my favorite places in NYC is Lucky Cheng's.!:D

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

LOL, Neil.. i guess i asked for that one......

Be well...

[Pork Chop]

Used to listen to the Kinks greatest hits almost daily one summer when I was a lifeguard at a beach. Love all those songs.

Gf's going out of town this evening so I figured this would be fitting:

Spent last winter playing in the sand
With the prisoners of the motherland
**** hotel is feeling like a cell
And even paradise can be so cruel
Sitting by the swimming pool
Trying to keep my head together
In that hot Australia weather
Three days to kill and my per diem's getting low
'Cause I spent all my money calling long distance
Calling longdistance, such a long way from home
Am I talking to long distance, can you put me through?
Twelve thousand miles but I've got not resistance,
long distance
long distance
long distance
long distance
Now the Road Hog's face is turning red >
Larry's still asleep in bed
Romeo he can't get no head at all
And the Doctor looks on so annoyed
You disappoint me, Mr. Boyd
And the Electric Dwarf wishes he was six foot tall
Now Romeo's patience is wearing thin
C'mon baby, let me in
It's five a.m. and I've been creeping 'round the hall
Got no resistance calling long distance
You sound so close but your such a long way from home
Am I talking to long distance, can you put me through?
Twelve thousand miles but I've got not resistance,
long distance
long distance
long distance
long distance
Still no points for my merrymen,
Except Ricard, he just scored ten
Now Road Hog's getting drunk again
And I only get to hold my pen
Instead of what I love to hold the most.
I feel so lonesome I could cry
Count the hours as they roll by
It's day time now
I think I'll make a call
Hello long stiance long distance
You sound so close but you're such a long way from home
You're such a long way from home
Have to admit I got no resistance to the red light on the wall
The message said I got a call,
long distance
long distance
long distance
long distance

[lkfmdc]

it kinda worries me that lkfmdc knows all the lyrics to Lola. (I;m hoping he doesn't know all the lyrics to Sweet Transvestite):eek:
of course, that being said, I must admit one of my favorite places in NYC is Lucky Cheng's.!:D

have no fear, I just googled it and cut and pasted ;)

but your favorite place is Lucky Cheng's :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

(I was there ONCE, and the TV's weren't even passable! If you are gonna hang out with TV's, they ought to be Thailand quality hot!) :p

[Citong Shifu]

LOL, guess who????? :eek: . Ya, I'm the sifu from Alton :D !!!!! Why cant we use names here ????? My name is Ron, what is yours, who is your teacher???, lol. I think your sifu's hate or hates on others is due to his lack of self-respect and training..... Oh, by the way, He's not a real sifu, self - proclaimed. I'm not going to sit here and throw shots at your backyard wannbe and I'm not hating on him, but in the future, please try to speak fact and not beat around the bush.

Sifu's hate on others primarily because of jealousy or envy. As in you sifu's case hating on me, as you pointed out, is not only due to the above statement but in fact his inability to perform to my skill level!!!!!!!! He has caused many problems for himself ,as well as, anyone who claims to have trained with him. All of the Instructors here in Alton / So. IL have lost all respect for him as a person and martial artist due to his hating on everyone. I dont think you really want to discuss this any further, unlike your sifu, I can show or bring fact to the boards :D .
Also, when we have something to say about one another or a sifu, we use our names and our affiliation/s. Unless of course we're HIDING from something or someone ;) . Anywho feel free to mention my name anytime, I am confident in my skill and my reputation is of the highest here in So. Illinois and St. Louis.

Oh ya, maybe you can let us all know what your "wu xiang guan northern 12 animal style" is about and its origins. Your teacher refuses to provide information and origins for some reason, hmmmmm.... Really, if there's ever a time you need to mention the sifu in Alton, please use my name. There's no need to hide behind the group here. As far as sifu's hating on one another, particularly your teachers behavior towards me, then let it be fact, not just because or he said / she said...... I find it quite amusing you brought me up in the first place. It's not like I wouldn't know who the sifu in Alton is when I have the only commercial Chinese martial arts school in So. Illinois. We all know I'm a member of the group, hmmmm, go figure. We call this behavior trolling. I wonder why there's so much hating these days.........
Sifu:Ron Davenport

[SPJ]

If somebody emulates or copies or steals your stuff, be proud and move on.

:rolleyes:

weird to quote own previous post, but as a continuation of the previous point.

Here is the thing. Technically, you are the teacher of whoever that copied or stole your stuff as a unwelcomed or unexpected student.

There are many stories of stealing by looking thru the roof or holes on the wall to learn the teacher's stuff without permission in the old time.

Yang Lu Chan, an outsider of Chen Chang Xin family Tai Chi--

---

etc etc.

:D

[neilhytholt]

It's always ironic when wushu people have high opinions of themselves.

Well, hey, if everybody thinks well of somebody then they must be good, right?

Anyways, that's your battle ... convince everybody you're great so you can continue having students, and convince everybody that the other guy's crap ...

[SPJ]

The thing is that everyone has his or her own goal to reach or what perfection is about.

Other people are just "reference" or comparison points.

In the end, it is still about oneself.

What do we think about ourself?

Focus on oneself and not others.

let others worry about themself for themself.

or sweep only the snow or leaves in front of one's own yard.

:D

[neilhytholt]

For a wushu teacher, it's all about being famous and making money. So the ego is a money and survival thing.

They have to keep up appearances, and constantly convince other people they're the ****znit so they can continue to have students and make the $$$.

If they're not so famous, then it's an even bitter battle to convince students not to go to the other teacher.

It's pretty sickening, really. But it's survival for them, which is why the battle is so bitter.

[B-Rad]

You are so completely full of $hit, lol.

[SPJ]

"dun hate me because I am beautiful".

a quote from a Shampoo commercial.

can't resist to quote it.

:D

[SPJ]

For a wushu teacher, it's all about being famous and making money. So the ego is a money and survival thing.

They have to keep up appearances, and constantly convince other people they're the ****znit so they can continue to have students and make the $$$.

If they're not so famous, then it's an even bitter battle to convince students not to go to the other teacher.

It's pretty sickening, really. But it's survival for them, which is why the battle is so bitter.

There are plenty of grasses on the pasture.

"no need to overgraze".

There are plenty of fishes in the sea.

and yet how much a fisherman/fishing boat may haul.

--

etc etc.

:D

[Citong Shifu]

For a wushu teacher, it's all about being famous and making money. So the ego is a money and survival thing.

They have to keep up appearances, and constantly convince other people they're the ****znit so they can continue to have students and make the $$$.

If they're not so famous, then it's an even bitter battle to convince students not to go to the other teacher.

It's pretty sickening, really. But it's survival for them, which is why the battle is so bitter.


As far as being famous and making lots of money, I think thats only a small part of this discussion. But, those who constantly, day in and day out try to keep the appearance of a teacher/sifu and constantly trying to convince others that their style/system is what they really say it is, is the real issue of hate and low self-respect. See, these people want or demand respect and recognition of their title (master or teacher) from others. When these teachers rather legit or self-proclaimed fail to be accepted by others often become very spiteful and eventually consumed with anger and low self-esteem. As a result, these teachers lash out at those who are accepted for their title and respected for their skills!!!!!

There's nothing worse than walking in the shadows of a more qualified and respected teacher. The point that follows has been stated many times before. Train, train, train, and train. If a teacher wants the fame and respect, "EARN IT". People need to stop crying about what they cant get from others and learn to accept reality. If one hates on others or is always slandering without just cause then most likely your community will hate back, facts of life..... Anywho, those who are looking for the fame or acceptance are'nt really Chinese martial artist anyway, this goes against our training. If one is worthy of such recognition, these things will come on there own, rather we want them too or not........ Well, there's not much more to say on this, it is what it is....

Sifu Ron Davenport
(The real Iron Louhan) ;)

[Ronin22]

have no fear, I just googled it and cut and pasted ;)

but your favorite place is Lucky Cheng's :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

(I was there ONCE, and the TV's weren't even passable! If you are gonna hang out with TV's, they ought to be Thailand quality hot!) :p



And this is because Asians tend to be less hairy??

Lord help you if it's full of Italian TV's

[SPJ]

competition in a friendly way.

So the teachers and students of Tai Chi, Ba gua and xing yi decided to learn from one another.

the styles are merged and mixed and tossed around in a salad bar.

Xing Yi Ba Gua.

Ba Gua Tai Chi.

etc etc.

together they called themself Nei Jia.

---

:)

[Citong Shifu]

It seems as though I've lost my East Alton fan club!!!!!!!! LOL :D .

[jmd161]

Hmmmm, i can truly say i've never heard my sifu bad mouth any other sifu ever! I mean it's obvious he's less empressed with some over others, but he's never said anything bad about another sifu, even those he knows are frauds.


I've seen sifu belittle others just to hype themselves up to someone, to the point of claiming the other sifu's style does not exsist, even when there's documentation saying otherwise.


jeff:)

[Citong Shifu]

Hmmmm, i can truly say i've never heard my sifu bad mouth any other sifu ever! I mean it's obvious he's less empressed with some over others, but he's never said anything bad about another sifu, even those he knows are frauds.


I've seen sifu belittle others just to hype themselves up to someone, to the point of claiming the other sifu's style does not exsist, even when there's documentation saying otherwise.


jeff:)


I agree, to each their own, but when one teacher starts to discredit another in a way that is possible harmful to his/her repuation then one must stand up for themselves. Of cours, one should be tactful when dealing with such idiots, but nonetheless, people should be held accountable for their actions. Facts are facts, if they have nothing to hide then no harm no foul, if its a case of chop suey, well I guess they should have been a little more respectful. Sorry for venting, but sometimes enough is enough! I beleive all MA has its purpose regardless of background. People should just enjoy their art while moving onto bigger and better things, whatever it might be. Anywho, wishful thinking, I guess.

Take care.

[neilhytholt]

Sifus are always dissing other sifus, claiming they're the best and others suck. This is just the nature of sifus.

Schools suck. Sifus suck. Just stay away from them.

[jmd161]

Sifus are always dissing other sifus, claiming they're the best and others suck. This is just the nature of sifus.

Schools suck. Sifus suck. Just stay away from them.


I disagree, i've had two sifu that i've never heard speak badly of anyother sifu, even when they were put down by others themselves. When i first came to this forum my sifu was dissed by all the Fu Jow Pai wannabe's that were here, until they found out through Wai Hong that my sifu is the real deal and not FJP.

My sifu just laughed through the whole thing, and said "tell them to ask their master who I am":D


jeff:)

[neilhytholt]

I disagree, i've had two sifu that i've never heard speak badly of anyother sifu, even when they were put down by others themselves. When i first came to this forum my sifu was dissed by all the Fu Jow Pai wannabe's that were here, until they found out through Wai Hong that my sifu is the real deal and not FJP.

My sifu just laughed through the whole thing, and said "tell them to ask their master who I am":D


jeff:)

No, they're not all like that. But I've run into so many who are, it's more like the exception than the rule.

I mean, if they weren't better, then why would you study with them? So immediately there's this superiority thing going on.

Pretty much every school I go to now, if it's JKD, or Wing Chun, or karate, or whoever, they're always trying to prove why they're better than the other guys.

JKD is either from the real Bruce Lee lineage, or JKD puts down Wing Chun because Wing Chun's too classical. Wing Chun puts down JKD because 'Bruce Lee didn't study enough'. Karate guys put down kung fu because 'they're too flashy'. 'They don't spar enough'. Kung fu puts down karate because 'they're too hard'.

Silat puts down everything because 'they weren't born on the streets'. 'They don't do knife fighting'. etc. etc.

You go in from some other style and they're always trying to prove their style is the best.

It's like some sort of disease.

[Citong Shifu]

Sifus are always dissing other sifus, claiming they're the best and others suck. This is just the nature of sifus.

Schools suck. Sifus suck. Just stay away from them.


Lol, to each their own. How do EVER plan on reaching the higher MA skill levels without a teacher that has spent his/her time aquiring the mastery skills of any given art. Maybe we should all quit our teachers and become masters too, lol.You cant label every school, teacher, sifu, etc just because of your own differences or experiences. I predict that sooner than later you'll find the answers you seek, may not be the answer your looking or want, but time has a way of proving itself. Oh well, cant please everyone.....

[neilhytholt]

I mean, you even have sifus putting down other sifus for putting down other sifus.

'That guy sucks and is inferior because he says I'm inferior'. LOL

[neilhytholt]

Lol, to each their own. How do EVER plan on reaching the higher MA skill levels without a teacher that has spent his/her time aquiring the mastery skills of any given art. Maybe we should all quit our teachers and become masters too, lol.You cant label every school, teacher, sifu, etc just because of your own differences or experiences. I predict that sooner than later you'll find the answers you seek, may not be the answer your looking or want, but time has a way of proving itself. Oh well, cant please everyone.....

I'm just tired of teachers these days because they only stick to their curriculum and won't let people do what they want to do.

My first and second sifus both let people from outside styles come in and study and spar on sparring night, and never enforced any style or made anybody do certain techniques.

So I'm a bit tired of martial arts schools because these days they all seem to enforce their style and their techniques.

I'm not looking for another style. I mean, consider the first system I studied, the first form, has over 100 techniques. The second form has over 50 techniques.

Why the hell would I want to learn yet another style? I don't even have time to practice everything my first sifu taught me.

[Citong Shifu]

I mean, you even have sifus putting down other sifus for putting down other sifus.

'That guy sucks and is inferior because he says I'm inferior'. LOL


LOL, I think evryone in the martial arts plays with the impulse to automatically build themself or school up. Just sometimes its taken too far.

[Citong Shifu]

I'm just tired of teachers these days because they only stick to their curriculum and won't let people do what they want to do.

My first and second sifus both let people from outside styles come in and study and spar on sparring night, and never enforced any style or made anybody do certain techniques.

So I'm a bit tired of martial arts schools because these days they all seem to enforce their style and their techniques.

I'm not looking for another style. I mean, consider the first system I studied, the first form, has over 100 techniques. The second form has over 50 techniques.

Why the hell would I want to learn yet another style? I don't even have time to practice everything my first sifu taught me.


Thats understandable!!!! Sometimes schools/teachers dont really let an individual come in and use arts that they have previously learned. I dont mind. I first see what they have then I show the student how we would apply it in our style. There's nothing wrong with a variation or two, three, etc. Now I run a TMA school, we dont practice karate, etc so we work on kungfu, but application is application, no matter the style. I have people who have taken judo, bjj, tkd, etc. They come to kungfu class to learn kungfu. When we spar they work their kungfu stuff. every now again they break out their old stuff and apply the techniques but as a variation. TCMA has locks, throw, stricking etc so there's not much of a difference accept name; judo/bjj=shuai jiao and aikido/hopkido=qin na, etc. However, we adhere to our CMA training. Its hard to tell someone not to do something they already know and are confortable with when sparring. I guess it all depends on the teachers skills. We work with alot of people from various arts and have great success when variations outside of CMA are applied. I'm not saying our way is the only way. but applications are applications, they all have counters and reversals.....Good luck with your training.

[neilhytholt]

Thats understandable!!!! Sometimes schools/teachers dont really let an individual come in and use arts that they have previously learned. I dont mind. I first see what they have then I show the student how we would apply it in our style. There's nothing wrong with a variation or two, three, etc. Now I run a TMA school, we dont practice karate, etc so we work on kungfu, but application is application, no matter the style. I have people who have taken judo, bjj, tkd, etc. They come to kungfu class to learn kungfu. When we spar they work their kungfu stuff. every now again they break out their old stuff and apply the techniques but as a variation. TCMA has locks, throw, stricking etc so there's not much of a difference accept name; judo/bjj=shuai jiao and aikido/hopkido=qin na, etc. However, we adhere to our CMA training. Its hard to tell someone not to do something they already know and are confortable with when sparring. I guess it all depends on the teachers skills. We work with alot of people from various arts and have great success when variations outside of CMA are applied. I'm not saying our way is the only way. but applications are applications, they all have counters and reversals.....Good luck with your training.

Yeah, I guess I'm stuck training my kids because honestly I don't think I can learn another system ... learn a ton of new forms ... eckkk ...

That's why it's so ironic when Fu Pow suggests learning CLF because CLF is huge ... and I just don't like their shen fa (body method) where everything is so stretched out and all that.

Either that or open a school ... Don't really have time for that.

I thought I'd hire sifus to be my attack slaves for drills, but even if you're paying somebody $50-$100 per hour they just can't get it through their thick skulls that you don't want to learn their style. I even told them ahead of time but they just can't understand it.

So sorry for hating on sifus, but I'm just sick of them. LOL

[neilhytholt]

Anyways, I think sifus are really sheefus ... lol lol lol

No, seriously, why are you calling them sifus? Sifu means wife. Laoshr is teacher.

[Citong Shifu]

Anyways, I think sifus are really sheefus ... lol lol lol

No, seriously, why are you calling them sifus? Sifu means wife. Laoshr is teacher.


LOL, Sifu, Shifu, Shirfu translates to teacher, father, master, depending on how its being used. Loashi or laoshr are terms used for teacher, more for someone who teaches like school (education), etc, not so much used in the CMA. Although, I do know of some school that have adopted the term instead of sifu. Simoo is Sifu's wife, lol. Anyway, sounds like you've never had a real kungfu sifu. Basic titles are usually covered as you enroll in a program, basic to all kungfu programs. Nonetheless, I doubt you'll have any luck with getting sifu attack slaves, lol. Dont know, I dont think there's right, wrong, or compromise with you...... Disturbing. Are you really a MA with any significant rank????? Doesn't matter. I now know all I need to know....

Good Luck.

[neilhytholt]

LOL, Sifu, Shifu, Shirfu translates to teacher, father, master, depending on how its being used. Loashi or laoshr are terms used for teacher, more for someone who teaches like school (education), etc, not so much used in the CMA. Although, I do know of some school that have adopted the term instead of sifu. Simoo is Sifu's wife, lol. Anyway, sounds like you've never had a real kungfu sifu. Basic titles are usually covered as you enroll in a program, basic to all kungfu programs. Nonetheless, I doubt you'll have any luck with getting sifu attack slaves, lol. Dont know, I dont think there's right, wrong, or compromise with you...... Disturbing. Are you really a MA with any significant rank????? Doesn't matter. I now know all I need to know....

Good Luck.

No, you ass-w*pe, I'm making a JOKE. Shr-fu is teacher. Lao-Shr is teacher.

Sheefu means WIFE in mandarin.

Before you start casting aspersions you might want to learn Mandarin.

Basically most of my early teachers were Cantonese, and we called them sifu.

But when I got a Mandarin teacher he said call him Lao-Shr. I was like, "Okay ..."

So one day I was at work and I said, my sifu, and the Chinese girl was like, "What?" Your wife? I said, ????? She said Lao-shr and shr-fu are teacher. Sheefu is like a colloquial term for wife. Sifu is Cantonese, not Mandarin.

[neilhytholt]

You know, I kindof hate you people, Citong wife and Fu Pow ... every chance you get, you are trying to break me down.

Have I said you are bad at what you do? Have I ever said you have no experience? No.

Yet you insist to try to use any piece of evidence to discredit me. Like I care, since you have nothing I want anyway.

You are bad people.

Anyways, you know, just because of you folks, I've decided that I fold my hands in the United States. I will never teach martial arts in the U.S.

[Citong Shifu]

You know, I kindof hate you people, Citong wife and Fu Pow ... every chance you get, you are trying to break me down.

Have I said you are bad at what you do? Have I ever said you have no experience? No.

Yet you insist to try to use any piece of evidence to discredit me. Like I care, since you have nothing I want anyway.

You are bad people.

Anyways, you know, just because of you folks, I've decided that I fold my hands in the United States. I will never teach martial arts in the U.S.


Say what you will.... How do I know if your joking or not????? Your post are always somewhat the same. I dont know you or your mannerism.... All I see and read is someone putting down KF schools and sifus. Joking or not, your posts doesnt come across as jokes, 90% of the time. Passing judgement, Have you even read your posts / replies on this thread/s????? I guess you didnt read my reply. I asked a question, are you really a MA with significant rank? and my statement on if have had a real sifu or not. I dont see where I was calling you bad at what you do, etc. Just comenting on your use of terms..... A simple answer like, I was joking or whatever without the name calling would have worked, but it seems that you have to always take things to the next level... Misunderstanding or not, you bring these things on yourself, you should be conducting yourself somewhat professionally while having a good time bantering... Let people know your joking, somehow. Anywho, I'm sure there's others out there who would rather waste their time arguing back and forht with you or who share your same thoughts on such matters. I wish you luck with your playfulness and future replies....

[Citong Shifu]

You know, I kindof hate you people, Citong wife and Fu Pow ... every chance you get, you are trying to break me down.

Have I said you are bad at what you do? Have I ever said you have no experience? No.

Yet you insist to try to use any piece of evidence to discredit me. Like I care, since you have nothing I want anyway.

You are bad people.

Anyways, you know, just because of you folks, I've decided that I fold my hands in the United States. I will never teach martial arts in the U.S.


LOL. hate away. Who really cares? I'm quite happy with my training, sifu, style, LIFE, lol. I haven't tried to break anyone down or use any piece of evidence to discredit anyone, well there was one person, but thats a different story... What the hell you even talking about anyway???? Dont blame us for not having a teacher or learning the art your interested in, thats on you! All of us are doing the art/s we're interested in or enjoy... I dont know your experience, what is it? Does it matter? What matters is the image you've created. Readers base their posts/replies on your negativity or bantering, as you put it. Who knows. I guess you'll enlighten us all....

[neilhytholt]

Dang, I still haven't made Fu-Pow's ignore list.

What do you have to do to get on there?

[neilhytholt]

Say what you will.... How do I know if your joking or not????? Your post are always somewhat the same. I dont know you or your mannerism.... All I see and read is someone putting down KF schools and sifus. Joking or not, your posts doesnt come across as jokes, 90% of the time. Passing judgement, Have you even read your posts / replies on this thread/s????? I guess you didnt read my reply. I asked a question, are you really a MA with significant rank? and my statement on if have had a real sifu or not. I dont see where I was calling you bad at what you do, etc. Just comenting on your use of terms..... A simple answer like, I was joking or whatever without the name calling would have worked, but it seems that you have to always take things to the next level... Misunderstanding or not, you bring these things on yourself, you should be conducting yourself somewhat professionally while having a good time bantering... Let people know your joking, somehow. Anywho, I'm sure there's others out there who would rather waste their time arguing back and forht with you or who share your same thoughts on such matters. I wish you luck with your playfulness and future replies....

lol lol lol means LAUGHING OUT LOUD ... sheesh

Anyways whatever. I'm not a professional teacher so I don't have to conduct myself professionally. My kids don't mind my jokes.

But I'm really disappointed I didn't make Fu-Pow's ignore list.

[Citong Shifu]

lol lol lol means LAUGHING OUT LOUD ... sheesh

Anyways whatever. I'm not a professional teacher so I don't have to conduct myself professionally. My kids don't mind my jokes.

But I'm really disappointed I didn't make Fu-Pow's ignore list.


Thats exactly what I was doing, laughing out loud, lol again :D . I actually find this amusing! Ignore lists, who needs them. People have the right to their opinions... Even if others dont agree... Extremely rude, crude or otherwise, well thats not to be tolerated, an ignore lists may be necessary then. Anywho, conitune on and I'll conitue to lol :D .

[neilhytholt]

Thats exactly what I was doing, laughing out loud, lol again :D . I actually find this amusing! Ignore lists, who needs them. People have the right to their opinions... Even if others dont agree... Extremely rude, crude or otherwise, well thats not to be tolerated, an ignore lists may be necessary then. Anywho, conitune on and I'll conitue to lol :D .

I'm kindof bored of talking on the internet anyway.

But I found a new game today which is instead of calling teachers and begging them to let you practice applications with their students ...

Calling teachers and then saying you won't study with them because they don't have open mat. LOL

There's some real desperation out there these days. Must be a tough time for martial arts teachers.

[Citong Shifu]

I'm kindof bored of talking on the internet anyway.

But I found a new game today which is instead of calling teachers and begging them to let you practice applications with their students ...

Calling teachers and then saying you won't study with them because they don't have open mat. LOL

There's some real desperation out there these days. Must be a tough time for martial arts teachers.


I'm sure that you will eventually find the school/teacher your looking for. These things take time. Good luck....

[neilhytholt]

I'm sure that you will eventually find the school/teacher your looking for. These things take time. Good luck....

No, I'm starting to think the schools out there are just ... ??? I can't describe it.

Today I went to a karate school to check out their classes. Wore a white belt.

They actually let me spar, evidently they really wanted students and I said I wanted to do sparring. LOL

So I wore my semi-open fingered gloves. The guy punched, I did an outward karate block to his arm then stepped forward grabbed his throat, swept him and took him down to the mat ...

The sensei freaked out!!! Made sure the other guy was okay (of course I didn't hurt him), then gave me this big lecture about excessive force. Said I shouldn't come back unless I wanted to spar 'nice'. LOL

I think I'm just going to train my kids and forget about schools.

[Scott R. Brown]

No, I'm starting to think the schools out there are just ... ??? I can't describe it.

Today I went to a karate school to check out their classes. Wore a white belt.

They actually let me spar, evidently they really wanted students and I said I wanted to do sparring. LOL

So I wore my semi-open fingered gloves. The guy punched, I did an outward karate block to his arm then stepped forward grabbed his throat, swept him and took him down to the mat ...

The sensei freaked out!!! Made sure the other guy was okay (of course I didn't hurt him), then gave me this big lecture about excessive force. Said I shouldn't come back unless I wanted to spar 'nice'. LOL

I think I'm just going to train my kids and forget about schools.

Neil, this is nothing more than another glowing example of your lack of maturity!

There is nothing in this story that demonstrates any superiority on your part. You rudely over did it in a class with people you don’t know. You forced YOUR view of what YOU think sparring should be in a school in which you were a guest. This is childish and immature behavior!

When you are new to a school or a guest you should accommodate yourself to THEIR way of doing things. You spar according to THEIR rules NOT your own. There is a reason for this. Each student has a different goal and purpose for training. The instructor presumably knows each student’s personal ability and goals, YOU DO NOT! They are there to learn and presumably you are too. If you are not there to learn, but to act like a jerk then you don’t belong there. Even a MMA school would not tolerate someone behaving outside their established guidelines of conduct.

Not everyone has something to prove like you apparently do! Not everyone wants to train for combat like you apparently do! Some who choose to train for combat need to be brought along according to their unique temperaments and abilities. You clearly have a disregard for these concerns.

The owner wants to teach without getting sued because some nutcase came in with a chip on his shoulder and trashed his students. You say of course you didn’t hurt him, but that doesn’t matter! The instructor is responsible for the safety of his students. If they get hurt because you are acting like a jerk, he is responsible.

If your intent was to dojo storm then you should have made that clear from the beginning. If your intent was to spar in a manner that was more aggressive then you should have made that clear as well.

You are the one who looks like a jerk in this circumstance not the instructor who you seem to think "freaked out!"

You keep saying you will just stay home and teach your kids, but then you go out with a bad attitude and something to prove. It demonstrates your insecurities even more when you act this way. Your time would be better spent working on your own character instead of spending so much time criticizing people for not behaving according to your childish expectations!

[neilhytholt]

You don't understand, Scott ... I blocked the punch, stepped in, grabbed his arm, grabbed his throat (lightly), and swept his leg (lightly) and took him down...

He didn't even hit the mat with an impact. I more glided him down by holding onto his other arm.

That was what was funny. This school I guess didn't know takedowns in sparring. In karate sparring you actually get more points from a takedown followed by a pulled punch to the face.

Anyways ... regards... and OSU

[Scott R. Brown]

Hi Neil,

Thank you for the greater detail. So it seems to me that you are saying that you had no intention of making a scene and that you just assumed that the technique you used would be acceptable. Would that be a correct conclusion?

If this is the case your actions may have been a bit more tenable. However, considering the instructors reaction, from your report, it would appear he did not expect such aggressiveness from the sparring contest. The instructor’s response was understandable as well and need not be ridiculed. Before you begin sparring with someone you don’t know the rules of engagement need to be well established. Since you have some apparent experience it seems to me that you should have made an attempt to be clear on what you expected.

Having said that, the instructor also made an error in not having established some ground rules from the start as well!

[neilhytholt]

Evidently I did do one wrong thing which was the throat grab.

I guess I got too carried away after studying traditional bunkai with my last karate instructor, and forgot that they don't usually allow that.

Anyways, no harm was done and it is okay. I had a phone chat and talked it over today with the instructor and he says I can come back as long as I don't pull that crap. He even said I could do a seminar in traditional waza and bunkai, so I'm considering that.

So this might work after all ... more bodies to play with at the karate school. More $$$ for him. His students get to study some more traditional techniques.

Win-win-win situation.

[Scott R. Brown]

Hi Neil,

Thank you for the greater detail. So it seems to me that you are saying that you had no intention of making a scene and that you just assumed that the technique you used would be acceptable. Would that be a correct conclusion?

If this is the case your actions may have been a bit more tenable. However, considering the instructors reaction, from your report, it would appear he did not expect such aggressiveness from the sparring contest. The instructor’s response was understandable as well and need not be ridiculed. Before you begin sparring with someone you don’t know the rules of engagement need to be well established. Since you have some apparent experience it seems to me that you should have made an attempt to be clear on what you expected.

Having said that, the instructor also made an error in not having established some ground rules from the start as well!

[Scott R. Brown]

Cool! I'm glad it all worked out!

You shared the instructor's reaction, but not the student's. How did he react?

I see I presumed too much from your first post, so thank you for being more clear.

[neilhytholt]

Cool! I'm glad it all worked out!

You shared the instructor's reaction, but not the student's. How did he react?

I see I presumed too much from your first post, so thank you for being more clear.

The student didn't seem to mind. He was just like, "What the heck happened?" He was expecting to show some things to the white belt, I guess.

Anyways, this instructor kindof impresses me now with his open-ness. We're actually going go-kart racing with him and his kids today as soon as I can get my kids off the Playstation.

Maybe I'll finally get my black-belt. I'm brown belt at 2 schools but never made it to black. LOL

[Scott R. Brown]

Well good luck to you then. I hope you find what you are looking for!:)

[Mark71565]

Hey Sifu Ron, you're still #1 in my book brother! Maybe your east alton fan club is dead... but so what. We both know why the haters hate. I've been away from East Alton for over 17 years and it was no different back then (when we used to perform the Lion Dance together); I am sorry to hear that the hating continues. I used to think we were just young and stupid. Time should have cultivated wisdom in certain individuals. I guess not. That's too bad. But you're right about one thing: the haters hate because of jealousy. 'nuff said. Sorry it's taken me so long to re-connect with you. Life has a way of getting in the way, don't ya know.
Mark

[SteveLau]

It is the nature of the art - violence. We might been told to have good MA ethics in our early days of training, but it did not burn into our mind. That explains what happens later in our life. That also explains why other sifus hate other sifus. They might have some degree of MA ethics. But one can that their MA ethics fall behind their skills. Perhaps we eventually will agree that having good ethics is most important in MA training. I do.



Regards,

KC
Hong Kong

[David Jamieson]

Seriously? You guys resurrect this 8 year old chestnut for that?? lol
Martial arts are gonna hate on other martial artists for whatever reasons.
I think there's plenty of jerk offs that call themselves a sifu. So what?
Other people think I'm a jerk off.

Such is life. Deal with it.
:rolleyes::cool:

[GeneChing]

Seriously? You guys resurrect this 8 year old chestnut for that?? lol
Better ttt an old thread than make a new redundant one. Keeps the dust in a neat pile in the corner. ;)

[SPJ]

It is all about mass marketing.

1. iPhone fanboys contest with Android phone fans.

Even thou, both would do the same things.

2. HTC one is the best android phone.

However, Samsung Galaxy s4 and s3 have more sales.

Why ?

Samsung has a bigger budget on marketing.

3. My point is that

The successful school may be with a better marketing.

The best MA school may not be number one in sale or student number.

:(

[David Jamieson]

Better ttt an old thread than make a new redundant one. Keeps the dust in a neat pile in the corner. ;)

IS THAT A CHALLENGE!?

ARE YOU CHALLENGING ME!?

Oh, wait, never mind.
It's all cool.

:p

[Dale Dugas]

8064

and to thread necroing I give you this....

may your eyes weep nacho cheese...................................

[GeneChing]

Thread necromancy is just like in Alien. Sticky gooey eggs lying dormant in some godforsaken desolate ruins, just waiting to pop out, burn through your protective mask, latch on to your face and shove its nasties down your throat so your chest explodes the next time you grab a bite to eat.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/filepicker/VEep4oyLRfuIxONqZ96Q_alien_vs_predator.jpg

[Dale Dugas]

touche oh capitan!

[Dragonzbane76]

since we are bringing things back from the dead....I give you necro pants....I'll post the link after.

8065

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2476512/Are-terrifying-trousers-The-17th-century-NECROPANTS-corpse-legs--supposed-lucky.html

[Dale Dugas]

nasty mcnastyness that was.

[SteveLau]

I addressed the ethics of martial training in another post, entitled "open territory", and paste the url here in case you want to read it. All the best in training and in life.




SKM,

It is a super post that you referred me to read. My way of fight engagement has now been further cleared. I think it all has ethics consideration involved.


Regards,

KC
Hong Kong

[Mark71565]

Seriously? You guys resurrect this 8 year old chestnut for that?


...I was just trying to touch base with Ron, but I can see he don't monitor this site anymore. None of his contact information is correct either, or he's just not maintaining a web presence. Who knows, maybe he's dead. No need to reply to this; I won't be coming back here either.

[Rover]

This not about kind of tai chi class that 60+ years old people and women and practicing in,this is about MEN and men dont go well in peace and love other men.Plus,sifus must fight more than any avarage man and they do well these days.
:D:D:D post is done,now i can equip my brain :D

[David Jamieson]

This not about kind of tai chi class that 60+ years old people and women and practicing in,this is about MEN and men dont go well in peace and love other men.Plus,sifus must fight more than any avarage man and they do well these days.
:D:D:D post is done,now i can equip my brain :D

I don't think there are a lot of sifu putting themselves out there and fighting. Especially in schools where there are liabilities, legal considerations and such. the avenues that are open to fighting in a legal sense are not exactly filled with kung fu teachers. Sportive combative champs and such aren't often calling themselves sifu.

Just saying. I'm sure there are some that fight, but there are plenty of people who are called sifu that don't actually fight at all.
Generally because they are training people and the trueness of the revolving door enthusiast in esoteric martial arts such as kung fu has them spending a lot of their time getting their senior students trained and trained to train the influx of neophytes.

[bawang]

there are two reasons

1 college dropouts who want to make easy bucks, cokroaches who want to feel like big man

2 most important thing to fighters is who is number one, not number two.

in kung fu mostly reason number 1

[David Jamieson]

there are two reasons

1 college dropouts who want to make easy bucks, cokroaches who want to feel like big man

2 most important thing to fighters is who is number one, not number two.

in kung fu mostly reason number 1

Well, I wouldn't say running a school is easy bucks. It's not. As for fighters, I would think the strive to BE number 1 is way more important than who is number 1.

Just saying... :p

[bawang]

Well, I wouldn't say running a school is easy bucks. It's not. As for fighters, I would think the strive to BE number 1 is way more important than who is number 1.

Just saying... :p

running a kung fu school is a sh1t job, but an easy job.
when your student does something 100% correct, tell him he is still wrong. adjust his wrist. when demonstrating technique, tell him to relax, then use all the muscles in your body. keep a calm face and explain you were not using muscle at all. this is the secret of kung fu instruction.

the only hard part is watching out for random wing chun guys coming in and trying to sucker punch you.

[David Jamieson]

running a kung fu school is a sh1t job, but an easy job.
when your student does something 100% correct, tell him he is still wrong. adjust his wrist. when demonstrating technique, tell him to relax, then use all the muscles in your body. keep a calm face and explain you were not using muscle at all. this is the secret of kung fu instruction.

the only hard part is watching out for random wing chun guys coming in and trying to sucker punch you.

lol. the method above is the "poser d-bag school of kung fu"

besides, every martial artists who ever asks a question or gives an answer is told they are wrong by some nutter out there in the world.
there are requisite skills of course. they aren't hard to learn. I think that Kung Fu gets stuck with a lot of wu xia fantasy BS and it taints it as a whole.
Good structure, strength, stamina and the will to fight makes a good martial artist. Teach towards that and all is well. ;)

[bawang]

structure

son, I am disappoint.

[David Jamieson]

son, I am disappoint.

Keep your elbows out, waaaay out, ok now stick your ass out and your neck, turn your feet in more to face the toes to each other, now lift with your back!!!

Yes , structure son. It is where power is truly derived from.

Of course, you can't leave out everything else. but three points is way more solid than two. Structure always for conservation of breath and blood and services calmness of mind.
Pillars are less stable standing alone than they are when conjoined. It is a physical truth.

I thought you said you knew kung fu? :p