Name this form

[MARTIALSTUDANT]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sge4hsrVj04&search=martial%20arts

Is it northren or southren?

Any ideals on the correct name for this form?

[taichi4eva]

Contemporary Wushu. Northern. One of the Changquan forms.

[Royal Dragon]

Yup, what he said.

[MARTIALSTUDANT]

Contemporary Wushu. Northern. One of the Changquan forms.

what does this mean?

Is it the same as kung fu?

[The Willow Sword]

Uhh martialstudent maybe you should read the definition of "kung fu" as per stated by the wonderful folks here at KFM;)


That vid was a sad representation of that long fist form. but i guess he was a beginner. Now that wouldnt be YOU now would it?:rolleyes:

Peace,TWS

[MARTIALSTUDANT]

Uhh martialstudent maybe you should read the definition of "kung fu" as per stated by the wonderful folks here at KFM;)


That vid was a sad representation of that long fist form. but i guess he was a beginner. Now that wouldnt be YOU now would it?:rolleyes:

Peace,TWS

was not me

we all start some were or maybe you were just gifted:D

[The Willow Sword]

Gifted? HA, i think not. im a tall lanky gwai lo. took me years to get at even a decent looking level of performance with respect to martial arts.

TWS

[BlueTravesty]

was not me

we all start some were or maybe you were just gifted:D

He was definitely a beginner. And yes, everyone has to start out somewhere. If I need to reaffirm myself that I'm making progress, all I have to do is look at pictures of myself when I started out.

Jiayo! (a Wushu website) used to have that particular form (done by a different person.) She had very strong basics, and good stances. I think it was called "Yi Lu Chanquan" or something like that. Didn't have the jumps and flips that Wushu is known for however, but I think it was Wushu. (Jiayo is currently down for now, except for the forums and photos.)

As for the difference betwen Wushu and Kung Fu... well, it's like this. Kung Fu means "skill acquired over time." it can mean skill in ANYTHING including Martial Arts. "Wushu" means "martial arts."

HOWEVER, when we say Wushu on here, 90% of the time we are reffering to "Modern Wushu." which is a standardized curriculum of Performance Art regulated by Mainland China. It is meant to be a "progressive" form of the ancient Chinese Combat arts, which, with the advent of Firearms are thought to be obsolete. Therefore combat application is not the aim of these forms.

Kung Fu or "Traditional Wushu" is used to describe the various forms of armed and unarmed combat that have their origins in China. This includes diverse forms such as Longfist (traditional, as opposed to the Modern Wushu versions.) Hung Gar (Hung Family Fist) Wing Chun, Praying Mantis, Choy Li Fut, Baji, Taijiquan, etc. It is the intent of these styles to teach a student how to fight (it is hard to find this in Tai Chi these days, but it can be found) as well as the other benefits that can be found in Martial Arts.

If you want to know the technical differences between the two, check out videos on Youtube bearing the names above. Then try searching under "Wushu" or "Chang Chuan." and you will see what we mean. Wushu Chang Chuan (Longfist) is based on the traditional versions, but embellishes heavily on them. Hope that helps.

[Starchaser107]

Its an old traditional form, that was adopted in the early 1900's by the wushu fed people. It's a basic form either way.

What happenned basically was that wushu did not have a curriculum standardized per se, so they got various masters to submit old traditional forms which they modified.

This form was among them.

[GLW]

It is very poorly don 32 posture Changquan.

By age, it is contemporary. Being a NEW form that was created since the 1950's. However, it was created early on before the move to flash over substance.

It was actually all but forgotten until recently. It was then dug up and made a part of the contemporary long fist curriculum in China.

It can be done flashy...or with the traditional flavor of Chaquan - but mostly you see the flashy flavor.

A bit of a misunderstanding : the age of a routine is not as important as the idea, flow, and flavor. 32 can flow quite logically after a person has learned Tan Tui. It CAN be done with focus and power. It IS an intermediate or advance beginner form with the idea to have short connected sections that have a brief pause and then another short section that flows. It was originally designed as a bridge from the simple forms of Tan Tui to more complex ideas (As can be seen by its very linear back and forth structure that is typical of beginner to intermediate northern sets.

[The Willow Sword]

Martialartstudent, do not listen to these morons.

Uhh Maxwang, what about the comments posted are moronic? have we all not established the same fuking thing that YOU have? Who is the moron here? oh yeah you are in the buckeye state.:rolleyes: nuff said:p :D

As Always,TWS

[Shaolinlueb]

after wubu chuan (5 stance form) this is usually the first form taught to kids. there are 4 or 5 other long fist forms that consist of the basics.

this is a very poor performance too

our teacher teaches the first 3 forms normally (been doing so for the past 20 years and even when he was young learned them). they all have good foundation and basic work.

[neilhytholt]

Yep, that is a very boring longfist form.

My daughter is much better than that guy, and she's only 7. Of course, she is doing something a little bit more interesting for her first form with sweeps, kick passes, stomp kicks, mantis fists, etc.

I'm trying to figure out how to break it to her that it's not a competition wushu form. I guess I'll have to enter her into open tournaments or something.

But the best part is she'll be able to scratch all those little wushu brats eyes out. They won't have a clue as to how to apply their stuff.

[Sifu Darkfist]

Consider this position on long fist before being critical

TAKEN FROM www.adamhsu.com for educational purposes only, please excuse the usage.
LONG FIST POWER
Training the Complete Martial Artist & Complete Person
by Adam Hsu
Among a couple hundred Chinese martial art styles, it's a pretty safe bet to say that long fist (chang quan) is the largest style of them all. Now, if you count heads based only on the name "chang quan," you are likely to lose your bet. But as a matter of fact, as a matter of reality, long fist is truly the largest.

Some styles in this family are actually called "chang quan:" tai zhu chang quan (tai zhu long fist), jia men chang quan (Islamic style long fist), mei hua chang quan (mei flower long fist), and so forth. Others have totally different names, but still are long fist: for instance, mizong quan (lost track style) and even taiji quan (grand ultimate style). Yes, taiji quan is chang quan.

FOR THE REST about usage and misconceptions GO TO http://www.adamhsu.com/articles/long_fist_power.html

© Copyright 1999. Adam Chi Hsu. All Rights Reserved.

[neilhytholt]

Consider this position on long fist before being critical

TAKEN FROM www.adamhsu.com for educational purposes only, please excuse the usage.
LONG FIST POWER
Training the Complete Martial Artist & Complete Person
by Adam Hsu
Among a couple hundred Chinese martial art styles, it's a pretty safe bet to say that long fist (chang quan) is the largest style of them all. Now, if you count heads based only on the name "chang quan," you are likely to lose your bet. But as a matter of fact, as a matter of reality, long fist is truly the largest.

Some styles in this family are actually called "chang quan:" tai zhu chang quan (tai zhu long fist), jia men chang quan (Islamic style long fist), mei hua chang quan (mei flower long fist), and so forth. Others have totally different names, but still are long fist: for instance, mizong quan (lost track style) and even taiji quan (grand ultimate style). Yes, taiji quan is chang quan.

© Copyright 1999. Adam Chi Hsu. All Rights Reserved.

Whatever. Like I care what Adam Hsu says.

Yes, longfist may be the old basis of CMA but so fricking what?

That form is boring. I don't really care what Adam Hsu says ... just because something's old doesn't mean it's good.

Anyways, the form I taught my daughter as her first form is a lot similar to long fist. Except that instead of just a sideways punch, it's got a sideways mantis fist. There's sweeps, there's kick passes, there's stomp kicks for the pelvic area / kidneys... but it looks a lot like long fist.

Because long fist is good for kids to build up their flexibility when they're starting. But that's still a boring form.

[Sifu Darkfist]

Most Artisits listen to elders even if they do not agree they take experience as a learning tool.
ie, the entire practice of history,

if one does not understand those that have experienced life then that individual cannot overcome the same old entrapments.
i am sorry you Hate Grand Master Hsu, or just are indifferent, the post was for those that really wish to preserve the Cma AS WELL AS advance it.
Which for many of us is one in the same.

[neilhytholt]

Most Artisits listen to elders even if they do not agree they take experience as a learning tool.
ie, the entire practice of history,

if one does not understand those that have experienced life then that individual cannot overcome the same old entrapments.
i am sorry you Hate Grand Master Hsu, or just are indifferent, the post was for those that really wish to preserve the Cma AS WELL AS advance it.
Which for many of us is one in the same.

Sheep listen to what others think and revere figures of authority because they cannot or are too lazy to think for themselves.

You think I don't have manuals of old longfist?

My daughter's form is a cross form. I'm already teaching her to attack from angles, not just straight on. I'd pick apart that form, but I'm guessing that a lot of that form is supposed to be done a lot lower to the ground.

Her form has her doing sweeps and kick passes, with her butt down by her heel, with her heel flat. She's extremely flexible, which is more than I can say for a lot of martial artists.

I don't give 2 cents what Adam Hsu says. I bought his book Sword Polisher's Record, and it was boring. A complete waste of money. He may be a great martial artist -- I have no idea. But his book was a waste of time.

[Sifu Darkfist]

Trust me when i say that the Matial arts taught by GM Hsu far deeper than a long fist form. I have 2 daughters training as well, but it is in my form and usage that lies my ability. My daughters "full contact fighters as well as form competitiors have a long way to learn from OLD men such as myself. As well as history lessons to prevent repeats of stupidity disguised as genius. However i am sure that you Mention of GM Hsu's book will not hurt his sales. just the mention of a Sword Polishers Record sparks new interest

[neilhytholt]

Trust me when i say that the Matial arts taught by GM Hsu far deeper than a long fist form. I have 2 daughters training as well, but it is in my form and usage that lies my ability. My daughters "full contact fighters as well as form competitiors have a long way to learn from OLD men such as myself. As well as history lessons to prevent repeats of stupidity disguised as genius. However i am sure that you Mention of GM Hsu's book will not hurt his sales. just the mention of a Sword Polishers Record sparks new interest

I'm sure nobody's going to trust me over Adam Hsu. LOL

I'm not interested in old 'Grandmasters'. My first sifu was raised on the streets of San Francisco as an adopted Chinese kid with American parents. He saw more than his fair share of real street fighting, and fighting multiples because he had few friends Chinese or American. Something that I cannot say for many so-called Grandmasters today.

(Oh, as well as fighting in Korea and as a spy).

[Sifu Darkfist]

I am not attacking you or your teacher because that is a tactic for those that have no ability or self confidence.
GM Hsu was first hand to Liu as a Disciple. Even if Hsu never killed Liu was his teacher as Li Shu Wen was his. The body counts from these two are a matter of chinese history. Therefore to ignore the "old Grandmasters delivers a definite hole in your all encompassing art.

ie the art of divisional warfare, or the way to kill with one punch Liu style, or something the streets do not teach (as i have spent my time as well) co ordinated efforts of skilled removal (and gangs of thugs do not count)

last but not least Urban Warfare taught by my trainers in the Army that simply has no equal in the back alley training world.
So maybe you have a method, and i respect that, but many of us are looking to scare up all info and i will present GM Hsu and your master both as wealths of information to others depending on their taste in the arts.

also to clear the story this is all my opinion and not that of any other artist or master period.

[BlueTravesty]

:confused:

Well, one person's trash is another's treasure I guess...

To me that's one of the Modern Wushu forms that I'm impressed by. I mean sure, jumping 720 degree spinning kicks are impressive in a certain way, but watching more than one or two gets pretty boring for me. I like seeing strong stances, decent power, etc.

Now, that kid in the video doesn't have any of that, though I trust he's working on it. However, that form, when done right, is something I actually find visually pleasing. Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks, I suppose.

[Ben Gash]

I learned this form when I did longfist, and it's also done by the "Wushu Kwan Chinese Boxing" group in this country, who've been doing it since the seventies, so it's not contemporary Wushu in the way we typically think of it. It's a good training set with good longfist and Shuai Jiao applications.

[Royal Dragon]

Personally, I don't care for that set either. I like Wu Bu Chuan (the set taught just prior), but Wu Bu Chuan is also a boring set. I actually like the Chun I Chuan set better. Again, it is also boring, but I like the apps from it. I think it would make a better early level form than the one in the clip

[GLW]

First :

Wu Bu Quan - YES it IS boring. But after learning music (guitar, Frnech Horn), martial arts, and even ballroom dancing with my wife, I can say that virtually ALL foundation level basic building things ARE boring - like playing scales. And like scales, they are 100% necessary and how far you go later is built on what you did on things like Wu Bu Quan.

As for Changquan 1 - or 32 posture long fist - try taking it back to the source - as in KNOWING and talking to someone who was involved in its creation and knowing their history. It was created as a basic training set to build on things like Tan Tui and Wu Bu Quan. It was based heavily on other older routines. There are somplete sections that come straight out of other TRADITIONAL sets i either know or have seen.

The venom here on something as simple as a ROUTINE...get real. There is nothing non-northern or non-traditional in that set except the age. There are even some moves that have the flavor of Da Hong Quan...

[MasterKiller]

im a tall lanky gwai lo. You are a foreign devil? I thought you were from Texas? :p

[David Jamieson]

is it called "awkward n00b teen seeks intention in motion"? :p

anyway, the kids performance of it is no measure of the form itself.

[The Willow Sword]

Oh its MUCH worse than that Master K. I am from KENTUCKY:eek:


:p TWS

[PangQuan]

haha, i know that form.

its the first form you learn at our school.

16 movement northern longfist.

i rip that form a new assh0le when i perform it.

he is missing his kicks :cool:

[Starchaser107]

He's missing alot more than his kicks. But somehow I doubt he thinks he's an expert, maybe he made the vid just to see how he looks maybe some reference for himself or something. Anonymous dude is under some major fire here considering he's prolly a beginner. O well, thats the net for u.

[tjmitch]

So a beginner doing a beginner form looks like..... a beginner?