Is Holy Trinity also in chinese chi kung?

[fiercest tiger]

Hi Yall,

I dont know if anyone has any information or where i can buy a book or read up on this information, if anyone has done a in depth study into the Father , Son , Holy spirit if it connects to the chinese Jing , Sun, Hei of internal work?

Thankyou
Garry

[matt]

lets not confuse apples with oranges here

[TonyM.]

Exactly. Different animals altogether.

[fiercest tiger]

animals??? WTF:D

[mantis108]

It could be considered an act of blasphemy by the fundamentalist just by pondering such a connection. ;)

Qigong in modern times doesn't really have to have any spiritual connection whatsoever. This is why you have all those new age bio feedback stuff. Let's face it, Qigong isn't exactly meditation. You don't need a spiritual perspective to work on energy. Only if you are interested in where the energy come from or trying to find the source, then you come into the realm of ontology. By then you have entered a different level of practice way beyond what Qigong has to offer. So the question is what does the Holy Trinity, an aspect of Christian theology, has to do with Qigong?

Mantis108

[fiercest tiger]

Hi Mantis:)

I dont see chi kung as a simple breathing exercise its about connecting to the source for me anyway thats what i think!

Oh im not christian im daoist but was looking at some intresting info i came across and thought might have some connection in ways when the christian pray etc?!

comments?

:)

[Christopher M]

Had the Chinese Rites controversy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Rites_controversy) been resolved in favor of the Jesuits rather than the Dominicans, there would probably be some authentic relations to discuss here. But since it wasn't, any such connections are almost certainly ad hoc.

[mantiskilla]

FT
Are you talking about connections to chakras possibly? I have read about the connection from Kabbalah to Chakras and energy work, so considering the earliest Church was founded by Jewish disciples of Jesus, it is not inconceivable that there could be a connection to Christianity considering Cabalism pre-dates Jesus. However, the 'Bible' as we know it is a collection of only a few of several hundred scriptures thrown together under Constantine. So who knows what is missing and how that could link together the 'Trinity' with chi gung. Ancient religions (pre-Chrisitianity) were so incestuous that it is very possible something like that could have 'leaked' into Christianity.
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[Jim Roselando]

Chinese:

Heaven
Earth
Man


Christian:

Father
Holy Spirit
Son

When you translate Holy Spirit into English you lose the masculine or femanine tones. Holy Spirit is a female theme.

So, you have the union of Father (god), Holy Spirit (goddess/mother nature) and Son or Children of God/Nature/Tao/Divine whatever you want to call it.

The Chinese is not so different:

A union of Heaven (God), Earth (Mother Nature/Goddess) and Man or son of the above.

Yes! I am aware that there is more to the concept but the above is just some ideas. :)

Holy Spirit is often symbolized as the Water of Life. In India they call this water of life Kundalini. In China its Qi.

This is a HUGE subject. Not one that can be answered by anyone but the person who experiences the Phenom/Transformation themselves. Certainly Qi Gong has a spiritual connection or connections. It is the study of Yin/Yang and Alchemy. Zheng Qi cannot be activated unless one has collected his thougths and this does relate to a meditative practice IMO.

Comparing Meditation and Prayer of religion one needs to figure out what do they both strive to achieve? Whats the different between a mantra in Buddhism and a prayer in religion? Both strive for Peace of Mind or the Quiet State or Stillness etc..

Also! If you check out the symbology each of these use for the process you will see the Serpent. In Christianity its the Serpent on the Tree of Life inthe Garden of Eden. In Kundalini its the Serpent. Etc.. Same synbol for the same concept just from a different POV. Some focus just on the spiritual and some are physical and spiritual.

Just some thoughts!

Peace,

[mantiskilla]

Jim
Have you read anything regarding connections?:

Holy Spirit ------- Upper Dan Tien

Father-------Middle Dan Tien

Son---------Lower Dan Tien
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[Christopher M]

I have read about the connection from Kabbalah to Chakras and energy work, so considering the earliest Church was founded by Jewish disciples of Jesus, it is not inconceivable that there could be a connection to Christianity considering Cabalism pre-dates Jesus.

Kabbalah begins in the 13th century and it had little to say about energy work. The association of Kabbalah and energy work is a result of the former's fusion with Yogic methods by 19th century European occultists, and the product is often called Qabalah to distinguish it from the original Jewish tradition. However, there was certainly Jewish mysticism in general which predates Christianity, and there were certainly Christian contemplative trends which included, like the contemplative trends elsewhere in the world, some remarks on what we would call energy work.


However, the 'Bible' as we know it is a collection of only a few of several hundred scriptures thrown together under Constantine.

Close. The New Testament is a collection of twenty-seven scriptures assembled at the Council of Carthage.


So who knows what is missing and how that could link together the 'Trinity' with chi gung.

Someone who reads books from that period other than those found in the Bible?

[TenTigers]

I'm not going to add to the discussion as far as the holy trinity is concerned, but I will mention that there are spiritual forms of noi-gung/san-gung, and it is not simply energy work. There are methods of attaining enlightenment, opening up psychic centers,uniting heaven,earth, and man, etc.
So, is it ontology, or theology?

[Jim Roselando]

Hello,

Yes, I have heard about the 3 dan tien relating to H/E/M.

It is also interesting to note that Yeshua was reported to cast out the 7 demons or sometimes called; 7 lights from Mary Magdelene. Some spiritual teachers regard this as the complete un-locking of the 7 Charkra's.

Yeshua also mentions:

When the male and the female become one, then you will enter the Kingdom.

Is this the the same idea as what we are talking about?

Some cultures call Stillness the Kindgom. As Kung Fu/Qi Gong practitioners we may be able to relate the Wuji State to religious concepts.

More possiblities!


:)


Peace,

[fiercest tiger]

The sun god was also part of worship from many different religions even christianity. I have heard that the Gods Son/sun IS the Sun that brought light from darkness and reicarnation etc.

Maybe there is no real religion just energy that we must get in tune with and be TRUTHFUL?

Garry

[Jim Roselando]

Hello,


Today we celebrate Christs birthday as Xmas but the date of celebration is not is birthday. Its the Pagan "Sun" God day and not the "Son" of God birthday. Our Christian "Easter" is more related to "Ishtar"! If you look at old Christian foto's with the Halo above their head this is also the Pagan Sun Disc. Its worth looking into Pagan and Mithras traditions to see what the Roman's installed as our "Christian" holidays.

I think Religions are or were all the same same concept until the heads and followers start telling everyone who the right way or only way! This goes against all the conecpts we are supposed to learn. Christians, Muslems and Jewish tradition all come from the same line but all fight over who's right. Tisk Tisk.

Maybe there is no real religion just energy that we must get in tune with and be TRUTHFUL?

Shoot for the Wuji State/Stillnes/Great Void/Kingdom etc. and maybe we can understand what great teachers like Christ called; The No Name Realm. These old guys had great love for Genesis. What you mention is similar to that idea!


Just some thoughts.


Peace,

[Jim Roselando]

Here is a link with regards to this topic:

http://www.sol.com.au/kor/14_02.htm

[TonyM.]

I'd be very surprised if the jesuits didn't use the chinese rites on thier own. As for using anything correctly the odds for that are slim and none.

[Christopher M]

I'd be very surprised if the jesuits didn't use the chinese rites on thier own. As for using anything correctly the odds for that are slim and none.

In this context, 'rite' is a cultural tradition of expressing Christian belief. In non-Protestant sects of Christianity, there is an explicit distinction between sacramental theology and a rite. Sacramental theology is the meaning or supposed "truth" that is being expressed in religious practice. The rite is the cultural expression of that meaning or truth. Hence there is the Latin rite, the Greek rite, etc., where the Latin rite includes elements of Latin culture generally (that is, elements beyond those proposed by Christianity proper), the Greek ones use elements of Greek culture, and so on.

Appropriately, the questions debated by the Jesuits and Dominicans was whether they could speak similarly of a Chinese rite (that is, an expression of Christian belief through Chinese cultural symbols), and whether the particular rites which had developed in China at that time constituted as much.

With this in mind, it's unquestionable that the Jesuits practiced Chinese rites, alongside all the other Chinese Christians. It's nonsensical to wonder whether they practiced them "correctly," since the rites originated in that very practice. It's unlikely that the Jesuits would have brought back the Chinese rite and practiced it in Europe, since the entire sense of the rite was to express a culturally Chinese Christianity, and the Jesuits were culturally Latin. All available evidence certainly suggests that Jesuits practice the Latin and not the Chinese rite.

[dragonman]

I was "born" into being a cathlic. I went to school at our local church after I was done "regular" school every wed not to mention on sun every week from as long ago as I can rember. I became numb to the whole idea, all ideas that "they" had on the topic. I slowly perswayed my mother to get me "homeschooled" for religon class. My sisters helped here because they liked it just as much as I. Soon after I had too much homework from my real class' and so forth.

Skip ahead to not so long ago I have been introduced to first shaolin kung fu and then chi gung and finaly bagua. I found taoism through chigung origins, then yoga through the origins of bagua and along the way I read a few books on the subjects. I first want to point out the halo. Jeasus has one, all saints also have one. The budda has one in some pic's I've seen there is at least one diety in the indian religon(s) that has a halo as well. In Dr. Jang Juing Mings (spelling) book on "the route of chinese chi-gung" he mentions that when you preform the "religious" chigung you can lead enough chi to your upper dan tian that it ionises the particles in the air around your head making them "glow" faintly. Now I'm not saying that Jeasus was a chigung master, but I'm not saying he wasn't eather. Maybe I'm saying he might have just (and I don't use the term lightly) been a saint. I always felt a connection between all religions. The way I feel about it has been put quite nicely by Aesop Rock "Watching a thousand flavers of the same god fued, I figure altimate pieces is the common theam so its a no brainer piece when the blood hit the screen." he's talking about how there is similaritys between all religions but they all fight over the little unimportant details, thuse not even following the rules set forth by their own version of "religion".
seccondly I'd like to point out that praying and medatation are the same exact thing as far as I'm concerned, I sit in almost the same position and in one version (the Taoist) I try to let my thoughts float by as they come, and think of nothing. The other I repeat over and over (in my head) the same virces I've memorized sence I was 3 years old. Is it not common knolage that repeating or having certian words repeated over and over again and again can cause a hypnosis like state? when I am trying to let my thoughts go in the taoist medatation I am literly saying to my self "dont think! dont think! dont think!" Maybe it's because I don't meditate too much, but I never did pray too much eather. Well compaired to the bagua I do, 1-2 hr per day, 10 or so min twice a week praying doesn't seam like much to me anyway. After all this I think I'll start meditating more often, after all I think of my self as a taoist if I have to choose a religion. Though I could save myself time by just thinking/saying I'm religious.

[tattooedmonk]

Jim
Have you read anything regarding connections?:

Holy Spirit ------- Upper Dan Tien

Father-------Middle Dan Tien

Son---------Lower Dan Tien holy spirit/ earth/ mother nature should be the middle dan tien ..... the father / heaven should be upper dan tien

[tattooedmonk]

It could be considered an act of blasphemy by the fundamentalist just by pondering such a connection. ;)

Qigong in modern times doesn't really have to have any spiritual connection whatsoever. This is why you have all those new age bio feedback stuff. Let's face it, Qigong isn't exactly meditation. You don't need a spiritual perspective to work on energy. Only if you are interested in where the energy come from or trying to find the source, then you come into the realm of ontology. By then you have entered a different level of practice way beyond what Qigong has to offer. So the question is what does the Holy Trinity, an aspect of Christian theology, has to do with Qigong?

Mantis108you realize that this is most of the problem??

[tattooedmonk]

Chinese:

Heaven
Earth
Man


Christian:

Father
Holy Spirit
Son

When you translate Holy Spirit into English you lose the masculine or femanine tones. Holy Spirit is a female theme.

So, you have the union of Father (god), Holy Spirit (goddess/mother nature) and Son or Children of God/Nature/Tao/Divine whatever you want to call it.

The Chinese is not so different:

A union of Heaven (God), Earth (Mother Nature/Goddess) and Man or son of the above.

Yes! I am aware that there is more to the concept but the above is just some ideas. :)

Holy Spirit is often symbolized as the Water of Life. In India they call this water of life Kundalini. In China its Qi.

This is a HUGE subject. Not one that can be answered by anyone but the person who experiences the Phenom/Transformation themselves. Certainly Qi Gong has a spiritual connection or connections. It is the study of Yin/Yang and Alchemy. Zheng Qi cannot be activated unless one has collected his thougths and this does relate to a meditative practice IMO.

Comparing Meditation and Prayer of religion one needs to figure out what do they both strive to achieve? Whats the different between a mantra in Buddhism and a prayer in religion? Both strive for Peace of Mind or the Quiet State or Stillness etc..

Also! If you check out the symbology each of these use for the process you will see the Serpent. In Christianity its the Serpent on the Tree of Life inthe Garden of Eden. In Kundalini its the Serpent. Etc.. Same synbol for the same concept just from a different POV. Some focus just on the spiritual and some are physical and spiritual.

Just some thoughts!

Peace,this shows if you look at the similarities and not the differences then there are more connections than most people want to admit

[Jim Roselando]

As you can tell,

I agree with you!

:)

hehe

[fiercest tiger]

Has anyone read the book the "Jesus Sutras"?

:)