I Got Thrown!

[RUFNTUFGIRL]

:eek: I heard about some guy trying to start up some martial arts lessons in his home studio. So I went to try it and he threw me! Not really what I was looking forward to. Is that normal to do that to someone trying out your class... that you don't know?

[HearWa]

Uhh... we really need some more information. Did he take one look at you and throw you by surprise or did he say, "ok, here's what a throws like, are you ready?"

[RUFNTUFGIRL]

He had the class split by two's showing and practicing some blocking and elbow strikes. I don't know him, yet he decided to use me as his example, I guess. I didn't get a warning or know what he was going to show everyone. I am just wondering is it normal practice to use a newcomer as an example or is this person showing that he is inexperienced?

[MasterKiller]

:eek: I heard about some guy trying to start up some martial arts lessons in his home studio. So I went to try it and he threw me! Not really what I was looking forward to. Is that normal to do that to someone trying out your class... that you don't know?

The first thing I show people is how to fall properly, so that entails me throwing them around a little while they practice.

[HearWa]

It's perfectly natural for the instructor to be throwing the new students. How else would you learn?

[neilhytholt]

The instructor should give you some warning of what to expect. There was no indication you were going to be thrown -- you didn't practice any breakfalls first or anything?

What type of throw was it? Over the leg? Over their shoulder/back?

Be very careful of new instructors because a lot of the time they're dangerous because they're inexperienced teachers.

I would never throw a new student because there's just too much chance of injury. Even in Judo they always made sure people knew how to fall first before throwing them.

[Chief Fox]

My instructor throws me all the time. No warning, he demonstrates a technique and BAM! I'm on the floor. I don't mind at all. I actually appreciate it. He says the reason he does this is so we will know what a technique feels like. Keep in mind, it is a very controlled throw. He's not atempting to hurt me, he just wants to demonstrate proper technique. It helps.

[neilhytholt]

My instructor throws me all the time. No warning, he demonstrates a technique and BAM! I'm on the floor. I don't mind at all. I actually appreciate it. He says the reason he does this is so we will know what a technique feels like. Keep in mind, it is a very controlled throw. He's not atempting to hurt me, he just wants to demonstrate proper technique. It helps.

Yeah, but you have to keep in mind the audience and the comfort level of the participants.

For example, I mentioned on here before, I went to a bagua class that was like a 3 month class, and the 1st day the instructor was gone, so his student took over.

There were these older women and men there, and this instructor had us doing lower basin and turned all the way inside. It was tough for me, and these older women were having a very hard time.

So at the end of the class, these women were actually hurt. One of these women pulled something, and they shut down the entire class because under the contract of the school they weren't covered for a student teaching, only the instructor teaching.

Be very careful in martial arts classes, because it's your health and your body and if it gets messed up, you can be scarred for life.

[mantis108]

How did you land? What kind of floor or mats he has? Did he throw you or did he take you down? Did he escort you all the way or did he just snaps you off your root (balance)? You obviously are okay so either he's good at what he's doing or you are good at landing safely.

It does sounds like he's Kamikaze Gungho greenhorn teacher with a point to prove program (if at all exists) though So.... :eek:

Mantis108

[Chief Fox]

Yeah, but you have to keep in mind the audience and the comfort level of the participants.

For example, I mentioned on here before, I went to a bagua class that was like a 3 month class, and the 1st day the instructor was gone, so his student took over.

There were these older women and men there, and this instructor had us doing lower basin and turned all the way inside. It was tough for me, and these older women were having a very hard time.

So at the end of the class, these women were actually hurt. One of these women pulled something, and they shut down the entire class because under the contract of the school they weren't covered for a student teaching, only the instructor teaching.

Be very careful in martial arts classes, because it's your health and your body and if it gets messed up, you can be scarred for life.
I agree, you do have to consider the audience.

An instructor throwing a student can mean a few things.
1. The instructor is confident in your ability to take the fall.
2. The instructor is confident in their own ability to control the fall.
3. Gung Ho Rex Kwon Do Instructor.

[neilhytholt]

3. Gung Ho Rex Kwon Do Instructor.

After that movie I almost wanted to move to some small town for a few months just to open a school and torture the local population ...

[BruceSteveRoy]

He may be an inexperienced teacher. Kind of the way some people lack tact in conversation he lacks the sense to say to himself this is a newbie so she/he deserves fair warning.

As for Rex Kwon Do i received the most rediculous catalog of products you never knew existed and in there was a pair of American flag pants like Rex wore. i am so temped to shell out the 17 dollars for them but i am not sure what i would do with them. I do know for a fact that if i ever post a video on here i will be wearing them (assuming i actually do buy them). ok thats all.

[Citong Shifu]

:eek: I heard about some guy trying to start up some martial arts lessons in his home studio. So I went to try it and he threw me! Not really what I was looking forward to. Is that normal to do that to someone trying out your class... that you don't know?


Sure he wasnt trying to feel you up.....:eek: . No disrespect. Just wondering. I've heard it happening before. Newbe and female. Makes one think, huhhhhh.

Sifu Ron.

[neilhytholt]

Sure he wasnt trying to feel you up.....:eek: . No disrespect. Just wondering. I've heard it happening before. Newbe and female. Makes one think, huhhhhh.

Sifu Ron.

Or maybe she was giving him attitude, so he was a little rough.

I actually did that before with new people in classes. If they were giving me a lot of attitude, sometimes I'd give them a little somethin' to remember.

[HearWa]

I actually did that before with new people in classes. If they were giving me a lot of attitude, sometimes I'd give them a little somethin' to remember.
This IMHO is a very unethical thing to do. If they're giving you attitude ask them to stop it or walk out the door, don't try to injure them.

[neilhytholt]

This IMHO is a very unethical thing to do. If they're giving you attitude ask them to stop it or walk out the door, don't try to injure them.

Hey, I didn't start the tradition. It used to happen to me when I was younger, so I just return the favor. Somebody comes in acts like they're all great and know more than you do ... throwing huge attitude. You have to knock them down a few notches.

Plus, I don't really injure them (beyond some bruises). Just rough them up a bit ...

With karate guys sparring leg checks work really well for that. For throwing classes, high falls are always nice ... of course you land them right so they don't get hurt ... much.

But nice bruises from your hip and bruises on their thighs and calf where they land tend to make them much nicer the next day. If they come back.

[Zhijian Tsui]

Sifu should always show new students how to handle being thrown,and doing it safely.It could have been serious if you had landed badly and got hurt.

[Ray Pina]

He had the class split by two's showing and practicing some blocking and elbow strikes. I don't know him, yet he decided to use me as his example, I guess. I didn't get a warning or know what he was going to show everyone. I am just wondering is it normal practice to use a newcomer as an example or is this person showing that he is inexperienced?

I always play with guests.

Usually its a great way for them to see what you have and for you to show what you have because a relationship hasn't been set up yet.

I've counter punched boxers and have sprawled, gained position and submitted grapplers.... my money is on that this person didn't hurt you, just surprised you with the realism.

If you're not hurt, get over it. He respected you as a martial artists and didn't make a case about your experience or sex.

[TenTigers]

Rufntuf,
how much experience do you have? If you have several years, and told this guy so, then Ray is right. He was respecting your skill and giving what he thought you would benefit from.

...(sigh) ok, that being said, if you have little or no experience, AND if he was not even aware of THAT, then it is inexcusable. He is an idiot who has no business teaching, He should stay in his garage, put the car on and shut the door.
NO INSTRUCTOR throws a beginner. In Judo, Jiu-Jutsu, Hapkido, etc, the students spends the first several weeks or even months learning how to fall safely and properly, BEFORE he is taught throws, or is thrown, and is only thrown with less than full force. There is no excuse for stupidity. I am totally against any type of Gov't. Regulation of Martial Arts, but you can definately see why some people would see a need for it.
(ok, let's not get into the whole regulation, anti-reg trip)

[David Jamieson]

Your first time, your first lesson, the instructor was not executing proper duty of care towards you.

[Chief Fox]

If you're not hurt, get over it. He respected you as a martial artists and didn't make a case about your experience or sex.
This is a great point.

[Mr Punch]

Your first time, your first lesson, the instructor was not executing proper duty of care towards you.Did he have a face like a dropped pie?

[Water Dragon]

Your first time, your first lesson, the instructor was not executing proper duty of care towards you.

Agreed. Wehn I have a neo, I usually so a hip throw on them. But I pick them up and hold them off the ground while I explain why it's not a good thing for their feet to be off the ground in a fight. Then I follow through and 'lay' them on the ground while I explain the idea of 'control' and that if they can throw softly, they can throw hard by default.

That's about when I grab one of my guys and blast him into the ground, lol.

[RUFNTUFGIRL]

Originally Posted by Ray Pina
If you're not hurt, get over it. He respected you as a ma


I am not upset about it and I am physically fine, I can handle it, but I didn't think it was normal for an instructor to do that.

[Ray Pina]

Everything depends on the situation. If you are brand new to MA you don't play with me, you learn from me. You learn pulling and pushing angles, shielding, we co-op.

If you come with a few years of Kung Fu training we chi sau... I'll land open handed shots on your torso that demonstrate the potential to be heavy and I'll gently sweep you off your feet ...... this will show the gaps in your training and that I at least have more proficiency. If I can teach that to you should be obvious within one or two classes.

If you've been boxing for a year or two I'll say grab some headgear and boxing gloves and I'll jam and lightly counter punch. If you say you've been boxing for 5 or more years, no head gear, just gloves, and chances are you'll be firing well and I'll be firing well.

If you wrestle, we wrestle.

Frankly, I'd aopreciate your teacher for being so hands on with you. A lot of teachers sit in the back room and let their seniors teach. No harm, no foul. This is martial arts .... you will fall, you will be punched, you will be kicked, locked, bruised and bloody.

Starting on day one with a fall seems alright. He might have been testing you

[yenhoi]

"NO INSTRUCTOR" throws on the first lesson? Nonsense.

If the guy has any skill I would be overjoyed that he threw me the first day.

Its just plain silly for small groups and individuals to spend days/weeks/months of breakfalling before being thrown. People should be punched, kicked, kneed, thrown, locked up, and choked many times withen the first few lessons. Otherwise your just being sold cirriculum, not learning how to fight.

There are obvious red lines and boundries. Hurting people is no good, even if they have been training for years and years, even in your school or system. Any one of us would know something was wrong and over the line the very second it happened.

There are a couple articles on judoinfo.com about the ridiculous amount of injuries begginners recieve during their first few months of training, almost all related to way too much pre-throwing breakfall training. It is not true that no judo instructor would throw a beginner. Any good instructor worth his salt would get his hands on new people, or make sure that someone expierenced did.

Still, we dont know if he picked her up and slammed her ala matt hughes or just tripped her and walked her into the floor.

:eek: :confused: :eek:

[RUFNTUFGIRL]

I Went To Block Right And Then Strike Left, He Grabbed Me At That Point And Flung Me Over At An Angle And Down. I Was Giving No Attitude Whatsoever. I Went To A Class With My Cousin While I Was Visiting Her Area. He Had No Idea If I Was A Beginner Or Experienced.

[Ray Pina]

I Went To Block Right And Then Strike Left, He Grabbed Me At That Point And Flung Me Over At An Angle And Down. I Was Giving No Attitude Whatsoever. I Went To A Class With My Cousin While I Was Visiting Her Area. He Had No Idea If I Was A Beginner Or Experienced.

Your words say everything regarding your level of martial skill, from the way you describe the encounter, the actions taken and most of all the way you have accepted -- actually haven't accepted -- what has occured.

This is fine. Everyone starts somewhere and you'll either put your ego aside, pick yourself up and keep training, or pout that he had no right to do that to you.

I'm not sure if you were the poster who posted last week about how you kick box in Queens with men or not, but you presented yourself in a manner suggesting you have a certain degree of training. Accept the fact that you will be thrown, and if you're really serious about martial arts and really want to test yourself you will be hurt.

Regardless of all of that, if you've received no training at all, be the rough-n-tough girl that you are advertising. Right now, you are 100% supporting all those biased mens' posts a few weeks ago.

[neilhytholt]

Yeah, you showed experience, so he threw you.

But when you say at an angle and down, okay, that makes sense, but how did you land? Did he just let you fly to the ground, or did he keep hold of you?

[RUFNTUFGIRL]

Your words say everything regarding your level of martial skill, from the way you describe the encounter, the actions taken and most of all the way you have accepted -- actually haven't accepted -- what has occured.

This is fine. Everyone starts somewhere and you'll either put your ego aside, pick yourself up and keep training, or pout that he had no right to do that to you.

I'm not sure if you were the poster who posted last week about how you kick box in Queens with men or not, but you presented yourself in a manner suggesting you have a certain degree of training. Accept the fact that you will be thrown, and if you're really serious about martial arts and really want to test yourself you will be hurt.

Regardless of all of that, if you've received no training at all, be the rough-n-tough girl that you are advertising. Right now, you are 100% supporting all those biased mens' posts a few weeks ago.

No, do not misunderstand my post, I have very little MA experience. I teach kickboxing for different gyms, not in MA studios. The reason I pose the question is that my cousin wants to continue going for lessons at this person's home and she is young. I wanted to ask if this was normal practice. I am in no way biatching about the experience. As far as Ruf n Tuf well that name has nothing to do with MA. But it fits in a hokey kinda way, doesn't it?

[Ray Pina]

Your cousin should expect to be swept, thrown, locked, pushed, pulled, kicked and punched... challenged physically, mentally and emotionally.

If the teacher is good she should also expect not to get hurt often. Maybe one minor injury a year .... jammed finger or tweaked ligament in the wrist from a lapse of focus while striking (it happens), bloody lip or nose from a training partner who lost control for a second, ect., etc.


Sore muscles and bruises will be common.

[hjt]

Originally Posted by Ray Pina
If you're not hurt, get over it. He respected you as a ma


I am not upset about it and I am physically fine, I can handle it, but I didn't think it was normal for an instructor to do that.


the instructor for the lack of a better word was being a pr*ck, sometimes they try to show off to new students, by doing or saying things to impress them.

heres a story, a friend of mine, she went to check out a school a long time ago, dont remember which style, but it was kung fu, anyway, after class the sifu spoke to her and said, i m trained to kill, all my techniques are killing techniques. she told me that she shook his hand and said thank you and left.

i think it was ego on his behalf

[Ray Pina]

That has nothing to do with sweeping someone who could be sweapt.

[SimonM]

My "instructor" tried to throw me yesterday. He was trying to prove that his long-long-(like next postal code away) style of boxing was superior to the tighter, shorter stuff I am used to. So when I closed he tried throwing a sidekick at my face and when I brushed that away he went for a shoot... considering that he speaks no english and I speak crappy Putonghua he didn't warn me. I sprawled and went for a guillotine choke and the other adult student in our class split us up. I'm becoming rapidly dissilussioned by this particular instructor. :s

[Ray Pina]

I never took to the long style of boxing .... even the long-long ... always wondering, what happens when the other guy is long-long-longer:)

[TenTigers]

with all that you're saying, we still don't have alot to go on. On top of this, each poster is trying to push their opinion, and not really listening.
I think the bottom line is you need to trust your instincts. What kind of feel, or vibe did you get from the guy and the class? Is this a place where you feel safe leting your younger cousin train-alone?

[David Jamieson]

My "instructor" tried to throw me yesterday. He was trying to prove that his long-long-(like next postal code away) style of boxing was superior to the tighter, shorter stuff I am used to. So when I closed he tried throwing a sidekick at my face and when I brushed that away he went for a shoot... considering that he speaks no english and I speak crappy Putonghua he didn't warn me. I sprawled and went for a guillotine choke and the other adult student in our class split us up. I'm becoming rapidly dissilussioned by this particular instructor. :s


it is my experience that compact structure and shorter frame tactics will succeed almost 99.999% of the time over larger frame and longer motions where the body is opened up to wide.

I've completely retooled everything into a tighter frame and spnd a lot of my personal one on one practice time working the angles inside from rim shot to clinch range. It's improved my actual ability to apply 10 fold.

Keep working that Simon and you'll be dissapointed in more than one instructor along your path. :p

[SimonM]

Yeah, there's just so **** few of them over here.

[Meat Shake]

The first thing I show people is how to fall properly, so that entails me throwing them around a little while they practice.


Masterkiller is one of the short and "smiley" people, who are often prone to falling involuntarily. He thusly wears a helmet on a regular basis.
I dont know if you should particularly subscribe to his brand of "falling".

[RUFNTUFGIRL]

She has decided to go to his house and practice. There are other people taking the lessons, but she is over a bridge away from me. We shall see? As far as the throw, he did not place me down and I did not come across superior or challenging. I haven't given attitude to a teacher in years. As far as him showing off, that could very well be or he is not experienced and/or insecure. She wouldn't let me ask anything and I didn't see any licenses or photos of him?

Ray, Thanks for that info on your Master!

[TenTigers]

forwarned is forearmed. Too many stories, news articles, etc about sexual misconduct for me, way too many stories of schools run my egomaniacs, or just plain maniacs. As a tMartial Artist with over 30 years experience, instructor for over twenty,, and especially as a father of two teenaged girls to allow my daughter, niece,friend's daughter, son, etc to go there. Of course there are many good quality teachers teaching out of basements, etc, and there will always be predators-even in the well-known established schools.
I am simply looking at the red flags. He sounds young, inexperienced,showing off his "skill" on a nephyte, for what reasons?
1-he is trying to imopress you with his skill, because you are a new student-bad sign
2-he is trying to impress you with his skill because you are a woman-bad sign
3-he is trying to impress you with his skill because he senses you have experience, and he is threatened and needs to show his superiority-bad sign
4-he simply throws a neophyte without knowing the skill level-bad sign
If he is young-then he's too young. If he is older, then he's unstable.
=more bad signs.
Everybody wants to be a Sifu, Sensei, Master, whatever. Too many people teach for ego gratification.
Frankly, I would look for another school.