Origin of the Sam Chien (three wars) form?

[yat_chum]

Does anyone know the history of the Sam Chien (three wars also called San Chin) form? It is foundation of the version of White Crane that I practice (and is found in many Styles). But I know it isn’t in the syllabus of Ancestral Crane, so I am wondering where it comes from?

[David Jamieson]

Three battles has come out of Zen.
This set is more related these days with Goju Karate.
The actual creation of this set in it's primal origin is likely from a zen source if not shaolin itself.

There are different versions of it that have come about over time, but the concept of the practice and the principles behind it are same same. IE: sustained dynamic tension while being in motion.

I learned a version of this set while learning Ishhinryu...almost 30 years ago:eek:
Recently sometime in the past few years, through practice with my training partner I've learned that this set is also in the curriculum of Wong Cheungs Sil Lum Black Tiger system.


there are variations.

[Ben Gash]

The origin of the form is supposed to be Taizhuquan, but these days it's pretty much the universal foundation set for Fujian Shaolin styles.

[mok]

Three battles has come out of Zen.
This set is more related these days with Goju Karate.
The actual creation of this set in it's primal origin is likely from a zen source if not shaolin itself.

David, not to be pedantic or anything but that's backwards; Shaolin IS zen. It is one of the principal schools of chanh (zen) buddhism in china, and the only one with a martial component. I really don't see what other zen (chanh) source it could have had outside the temple's influence, unless you are saying it was developped by fighting monks in japan?

[David Jamieson]

David, not to be pedantic or anything but that's backwards; Shaolin IS zen. It is one of the principal schools of chanh (zen) buddhism in china, and the only one with a martial component. I really don't see what other zen (chanh) source it could have had outside the temple's influence, unless you are saying it was developped by fighting monks in japan?

zen began at shaolin, hence the props.
I'm saying, it is very difficult if at all possible to define the origin of the set. It is not predominant in cma styles as it is in Okinawan Karate Do, particularly Goju ryu and Isshin Ryu, with the later being a composite of shorin ryu and goju ryu + it's own material. Not 100%, but I think that other okinawan styles have it, or a version of it as well.

I have found that it is in shaolin kungfu too, but not contemporary shaolin.
And it is in other okinawan styles as well and apparently can be a stand alone piece on it's own. So, I don't think it is Japanese in origin.

It's an interesting form, fairly simple looking, but actually, to sustain dynamic tension while in motion is not easy at all.

as an aside, I have other dynamic tension sets that I personally use. I haven't practice 3 battles in a very long time.

[Steeeve]

Uechi Ryu have the Sam chien really near of the southern mantis style(sam bo gin)

Goju ryu do more the Southern white crane version....or the Ng go Cho version

[David Jamieson]

yeah, come to think of it, I have seen a film of a Uechi Master doing this form.
Another Okinawan style! :p

[jmd161]

Recently sometime in the past few years, through practice with my training partner I've learned that this set is also in the curriculum of Wong Cheungs Sil Lum Black Tiger system.



David, can you and stan maybe video this form for me?


I'd like to see it and show it to sifu...I know of our Iron Wire set,but not of a Sam Chin set. I know i've heard that mentioned buy someone else, but i only know of iron Wire.


jeff:)

[joedoe]

I have been taught two meanings of the three battles.

1 - the battle to understand the aspects of heaven, earth, and man

2 - the inner battle to overcome the anger, greed, and hatred.

I am sure there are plenty of other explanations that can be thought up :)

[Steeeve]

:)

interesting to saw all this version of the sam chien or som bo gin or whaterver the name ...

some style of white crane (southern) have this form some not ....like the ancestral (yang jwing ming style) the Flying crane(fei he) dont have it also
mostly the southern mantis have his kind of form...chow ga ,jook lum and so on...
and the ng ga cho ...the pangai poon (uechi ryu ) is the japenese sountern mantis style like goju ryu is a white crane style.....ishiin ryu is a modern style of karate like shotokan he just add this form to follow the tradition
since a lot of the okinawa karate have it also...propably the old timer karate learned it from this chinese style like aikido came from pakua:p

All this expression of a form is a treasure even wing chun have is sam chien (siu lim tao) like the dragon style and the modern pak mei....different but its sam chien
expression

sorry for my english I try hard:)

But for the origin of this forms ....thats came from the hakka
and mostly the southern mantis kung fu

Northern style have Gong lik kuen .........for sam chien....not the same but like basics forms in a lot of northern style.....

Steeve