Liu Ho Pa Fa at Shaolin Do?

[MonkeySlap Too]

http://www.ohioshaolin-do.com/internal.html

See for yourself. Drake, anybody else from Choi's have a comment on this?

It is not enough that Shaolin Do has appropriated Yang and Chen family arts, now they have Liu Ho Pa Fa as well.

See my post under Shaolin forum.

Thoughts anyone?

See: http://mullins-shaolin.com/videos/bhudda-fist.mpg for an example of Shaolin Do 'internal arts.'

I was annoyed before, but I know Choi, this really honks me off. How dare they!

I am a big beleiver in luck. The more I work, the more luck I have.

[Kumkuat]

Shaolin Do is never internal. Neither is their "master" gary grooms. I saw him to some snake bagua (which probably doesn't exsist outside Shoulin do) and he wasn't internal.

[wisdom mind]

i cannot comment on quality of shaolin-do though, there is mucho drama round dem for sure.

i certainly would like to see what the result of this invitation will be, please keep us updated or email me privately

from my research the water boxing clan is very tight knit and every practitioner is KNOWN as their lineage is traced and documented more than your average kwoon, for the specific purpose of keeping the integrity of the LHPF style pure to tradition...

i respect that so much about the true LHPF style, i wish one day to learn this style .... are there and NYC legit sources of this water boxing style?

burn one every time.

[wisdom mind]

The flow to me looks not-so-internal...or in other words his flow looks like commercial grade tai chi (no disrespect to him intended)he needs to be unblocked inside...
...powerful internal to me looks like liquid and less like muscle memorization/mimicking. Smooth and not shakey. Maybe hes hiding his real flow from the clip though.

Obviously this man knows the moves in sequence and benefits from his practice...kudos for exercising!

Id advise him to do alot of standing post to gain stronger connection to the earth and to work on the exact placement of each technique and to relax more to gain "moe flow."

we must give him props for doing his thang regardless of the authenticity of his style(s) as too many americans sit on their bums eating mikky deez! Many people cannot balance on one leg so I tip my hat to that!

The form on the clip looks like a compendium of styles namley: swimming style from ba gua, snake, wusu, TKD, and tai chi blended up... if he practices more he can make the performance stronger.

[Josh _f]

Normally, I avoid commenting on arts outside my realm of knowledge. However, I write the following in hopes that it will keep the Shaolin-do threads from over running this forum as it has some others. A good friend of mine and sometime's pactice part, whose skills in Chen taiji are pretty good (much better than mine), at one time was an instructor in Shaolin-do with his own school and everything. As one would expect in a system with over a thousand forms people tend to specialize, my fiend's specialties were the internal arts especially tai chi. As it happens my friend got in an arguement over the net (this is pre www) with someone who insisted that what he was learning wasn't real taiji. After a bit of back and forth they decided to meet and settle the question. When they met my friend was exposed to some of the basic jings, and he realized immediately that everything he had learned was wrong. When he went back and confronted his teachers, whom he had trained with for over 10 years, their response was "whose to say what's real". My friend closed his school, quit shaolin-do and went on to study taiji with recognzed masters like Chen Xiao Wang and Zhang Xue Xin develop. Eventually he developed some real internal skills.

Those interested in more info on this topic go to deja-news search page (http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search?hl=en&lr=&group=rec.martial-arts&safe=off)
enter "rec.martial-arts" under news group.

enter "shaolin do" in the Find messages with allwords field

enter "taiji internal" in the Find messages with anywords field

Do not attempt to share your interest in martial arts with pedantic, narrow-minded scholars. As soon as they find out, they will quote from the classics and regale you with all kinds of irrelevant non-sense. This is infuriating. You can deal with this by either avoiding them or keeping your art secret.
--Ch'ang Nai-chou

[This message was edited by Josh _f on 06-15-01 at 04:22 PM.]

[devere]

I'd recommend learning from a teacher that specializes in one art, or in the case of the internals, many teach all three. The internals are not arts that you can learn when you reach a certain sash level at schools that teach arts like xingyi at "higher levels" of their cirriculm.

[swmngdragn]

It's not that they *have* LHPF, it's the point of commercialism/commercialization in the arts. *No one* outside the direct lineage of Choi sifu *has* any LHPF. What they have is a partial training, or the PRC version(dance). People look for what's popular, and begin to train in it before realizing that it's *not* what it's billed to be. With the "LHPF/Water Boxing/Liu He Ba Fa", in particular, what you're seeing is a "form" that has many gaps, and those are filled in with whatever is handy, or familiar, at the time. There are those that attempt to "fill in the gaps" with TCC, or Hsing-I, or Pa Qua, or tong bei, etc, ad infinitum. It gets to be a pain just to discern the junk from what was the intended art. Look at the state of any of the internal arts, and I don't include aikido, or hopkido in the equation. Them's a horse of another colour, altogether. What you're seeing, in general, is an attempt to emulate what people may *think* they see in regard to an art. Overall, you gotta be on the look out for the cr*p, and don't step in it.
Just think, Joe. The Green Dragon Society, here, has been teaching "LHPF" for several years. They even have a gentleman named Dr. Wu teaching it, along with TCC. What do *you* think of *that*. <<G>>
By the way, I had a chance to observe Dr. Wu, and his "LHPF". It was the wushu/dance/PRC variety. <<shrug>> I just laughed. What're ya gonna do? *Everyone* needs to make a buck. How *wisely* we spend ours is up to us.

Best regards,
R. Drake Sansone
(swmngdragn@home.com)
http://www.liuhopafa.com/
"Train, or go to hell." Terry W.

[MonkeySlap Too]

Who is the guy with the GDT group? I know there is a Dr.Wu in Chicago who teaches Taiji - but I do not know him, and I know its not 'my' Dr. wu.

What is the scoop?

I am a big beleiver in luck. The more I work, the more luck I have.

[swmngdragn]

Joe,

This was several years ago, so I'm hoping my recollection is correct : At the time I was a member of AOL, and was involved in their m.a. chatroom scene. I ended up yakking with some kid from the GDS located here, in Chicago. We got on the topic of Choi sifu, and lineage, and so forth. Than he let slip that his gwoon was teaching LHPF, so I pressed it until he just "hung up". I told what I knew to Choi sifu, and Michael, and Barry, in class one evening. Needless to say, Master Choi was *not* happy with the news.
As we were planning a *visit* to the GDS, one of the other students, who had been a part of the GDS, let us know that a Dr. Wu was the instructor, and that he also taught in a park by the lake shore. I found out where the park was, and made a visit on my own, I was expecting *your* Dr. Wu, and as it turned out, it wasn't.
*This* Dr. Wu was a youngish guy. *Much* younger than Dr. B. Wu, and what he was performing with a group of students was *not* even close to tai chi, *or* LHPF. I continued to watch until I realized that these forms were competition wushu/dance forms. I laughed my rear end off, and left.
When I went to Choi sifu's gwoon the next Monday evening, Master Choi informed me that it wasn't *our* style of LHPF, or Tai Chi, and that it *wasn't* his friend Dr. Brian Wu, but someone else entirely. A gent who had trained in Beijing for a number of years, and had emmigrated to the U.S. to finish up his studies in Wester medicine.
That's the scoop, poop, as I recall it. ;)

Best regards,
R. Drake Sansone
(swmngdragn@home.com)
http://www.liuhopafa.com/
"Train, or go to hell."Terry W.