IS Aikido "purely" defensive?

[GreyMystik]

something i read on an earlier post struck me as odd... someone said "Aikido is purely defensive and will never initiate attack". now I know what we've all heard about Aikido being lovey-dovey and non-violent and not harming the opponent and all this, but I want to know what some of you people think about it. I read a 7th degree Shihan Aikidoist's thoughts about it and he stated (this is not an EXACT quote but my paraphrase)"in the beginning this is true, you wait for the attack... but at the advanced levels it doesn't matter. You can just move in and go with it". what do you guys think?

[[Censored]]

In actual application a good Aikidoka may choose to break your arm and smash your head, or choose not to. The fact that they *have* a choice makes it a martial art.

If your opponent has a gun but does not pull the trigger, does that mean he is carrying a "defensive weapon"? I think not.

[Tsongkhapa]

Hi Greymystic

I have practiced Aikido for about 18 mths & by no means an expert on Aikido. Some people say that Aikido is a purley defensive style, this is not completly true.We use various types of attacks to get a required response. This enables the Aikidoka to bring his opponent into his circle & let him take control of the Situation with minimal damage to himself & his opponent. But sometimes it is better to stand back & wait for your opponent to strike. It is all about appropriate responses to the situation at hand.
Hope this helps to answer your question.

[The Willow Sword]

UKEMIWAZA is the art of attacking in aikido.
The aatcks range from grabbing to punching and even some kicking as well,,but then we get into aiki-juitsu. aikido was the first martial art i ever took and i learned (kotogiash) which are the wrist grabs and locks. and i also learned the recieveing techniques used to deal with a punch,,and also fallins as well.
GO TO YOUR LOCAL ALTERNATIVE GROCERY STORE OR BOOK STORE AND PICK UP A COPY OF "JOURNAL OF ASIAN MARTIAL ARTS" THERE IS AN ARTICLE IN THERE ABOUT UKEMIWAZA. IT IS THIS MONTHS ISSUE.
many respects ,,,,willow sword

Whatever you think i am or want me to be,,, i am.

[TaoBoxer]

Don't you mean Atemi-Waza?-

[wujidude]

Right on Bill . . . ukemiwaza are the techniques of being the fall guy . . . initiating the practice atemi/attack so nage can practice the aikido response, then taking the fall. Atemi ("strike") waza are the techniques of attacking.

[shaolinboxer]

As uke you do present yourself as an "attacker". So Ukemi-waza could be interpreted not only falling techniques, but of learning to give sincere attacks.

[TaoBoxer]

You're making implications about the act and ignoring the word. Uke means "to recieve." Ukemi is falling, rolling, breakfalling, techniques of "recieving" the throw, the mat, the strike...... Kake Uke is a hook block in karate. You aren't BLOCKING energy...you are RECIEVING it.

Ate means "to strike" but not as in a punch..... It is any colliding of 2 objects. Saya-ate was the banging of 2 saya (laquered sheath on a samurai sword) together. It was considered a high offense and was grounds for a duel.

Sorry if I am rambling but before I walked the circle I wore a big poofy skirt and yelled things like "arigato gozaima****a, sensei" atthe top of my lungs after every correction I recieved, so I am kinda picky abt this stuff........

[JerryLove]

Considering the principle of Akido that technique should flow from an off-balance opponent, and that attacking is an off-balancing act, I would have to conclude that, tactically (though not neccessiarily strategically) Akido is purely defensive.

What is Akido's solution to a non-commital attacker? Draw an attack using techniques such as ataemi. Then defend the attack.

[TaoBoxer]

So what you're saying Jerry, is that except for the times when Aikido is Attaching with atemi-waza, it is PURELY defensive in nature?

Aikido deals with yin and yang much the same as taiji does so I think it signifigant to take the Si Xiang (greater and lesser yang, greater and lesser yin) into accouant. Even that is a mistake however because your mixing paradigms.

Wanna just say Aikido foucs's on being Counter-Attacking art?

[TaoBoxer]

So what you're saying Jerry, is that except for the times when Aikido is Attacking with atemi-waza, it is PURELY defensive in nature?

Aikido deals with yin and yang much the same as taiji does so I think it signifigant to take the Si Xiang (greater and lesser yang, greater and lesser yin) into accouant. Even that is a mistake however because your mixing paradigms.

Wanna just say Aikido foucs's on being Counter-Attacking art?

[GreyMystik]

this is the quote that the 7th Dan Shihan said while being questioned by some students:

"Q: Is a technique based upon someone fully advancing and fully committing their body weight to you?

Sensei:Yes. In basic, beginning Aikido. But in advanced Aikido it doesn't matter.

Q: Not even with a punch like a boxer would punch?

Sensei: Not at all. It doesn't matter if they stay, if they run from me, if they stand there and do jumping jacks If I think I have to terminate a situation or neutralize a situation, I'm going to go after you. That is advanced Aikido. I don't need you to move. You can punch at me, you can do whatever you want.

Q: Then Aikido can be aggressive?

Sensei: Let me tell you a secret, those who practiced with 0-Sensei, whenever they attacked him, they were afraid the'y were going to die. Ask my advanced black belts if they find it a piece of cake when they attack me. It is not a cake walk. For example, I'm in a restaurant and somebody pulls a gun and holds a bunch of people hostage. If I don't have a gun, I'm not going to wait for him to try and pistol whip me. I have to do something then, I have to know techniques where I can go to him, and that is what "irimi" is all about. "

comments, anyone?

[JerryLove]

"Sensei: Let me tell you a secret, those who practiced with 0-Sensei, whenever they attacked him, they were afraid the'y were going to die. Ask my advanced black belts if they find it a piece of cake when they attack me. It is not a cake walk. For example, I'm in a restaurant and somebody pulls a gun and holds a bunch of people hostage. If I don't have a gun, I'm not going to wait for him to try and pistol whip me."

See, that's a mixed answer. Fist he tells you about how Akido can be dangerous then attempts to support that with an example of Akido taking initative.

I'm not picking on Akido, just regurgitating my understanding of reactive defense.

[les paul]

For the most part I think Akido is defensive. However there are times when someone has to attack for defensive reasons hence atemi waza.

I'm convinced of this because of Akido's theory on distance (Ma-ai) and how it's used as a tool for defense.

[The Willow Sword]

"No one can take away my strength since i do not use it." "The best technique is to Avoid Combat."

O'Sensei was assaulted by a man once with a pistol. the man was 14 ft away and O'Sensei quickly disarmed the man with out getting shot or even having a shot fired at him. when asked how he was able to survive this attack and disarm his opponent so quickly he replied," there is a time frame that takes place when a man holds a gun at you and when he pulls the trigger." "you must be able to take advantage of that time."
what many fail to realize ,in my opinion ,is that O'Sensie was a soldier and killed people. he was aggressive an initiaited the attack. when he repented and spent his time in the mountains he tells of being enlightened by seeing the golden aura of a tree. he was then able to see the aatck before it happened. that is why he was so in human in the way he thwarted his opponents with a slight movement. but he did come from a back ground of aggressive fighting.
when i think of students in aikido today i feel like most of them are coming from this background as well(previous fighting) what they and all of you need to REALIZE is that what aikido does is help you to shed that agressive nature so that in effect you harmonize with your opponent(brother). that does not mean that it wont hurt,,yes it will i know. but remember how
O'sensie became what he became. HE SHED THAT AGRESSIVE NATURE, even when he rushed the man who was trying to shoot him he was confronting him with compassion and love. its hard to comprehend for some of you and even myself at times when faced with a hostile situation,,we hate the other person,and then we get wrapped up in his hate and there is no harmony now,,just violence and chaos.
where both get hurt.
my advice is try as hard as you can to RESPECT the opponent(NOT becuase he might be able to kick your ass) but respect the fact that your opponent is a living breathing entity who has lost his way and whose life is precious. JUstice deals with those who arent deserving of the life we all lead,,,for all the others comapssion is the way.
Many respects, willow sword

Whatever you think i am or want me to be,,, i am.