Practice does NOT make perfect

[Zhin]

I am Back!

I've seen a few people post the well known quote from Sun Lu Tang, that "practice is the only secret".

To me, this is a justification for sucking.

"Practice makes perfect" is a common expression in America, and it is misleading.

Simple repetition of patterns and forms don't make you great. I know a guy who practices bagua four hours a day. But he sucks. Why? He studies with someone miles away, and sees the guy every 4 months. The result is he spends 480 hours making the same mistakes over and over again, and spends 8 hours trying to unlearn all the crap he's ground into his brain.

It's not going to work.

A slightly less known expression is "Perfect Practice makes Perfect."

This quote is much better. But again, I'm not a fan. Perfect practice does indeed make perfect. It does not make you great though. What seperates an average martial artist from a great martial artists is a deeper understanding of the art. Many people practice by rote, and when they have a new experience, never think to explore the new pathways that it has opened up.

I've known a number of reputable teachers, and they all say good students do what they tell them too. Great students move beyond what they tell them to on their own. Go from 1 to 2 to 3 on their own.

People who use the Perfect Practice makes Perfect line can fall into a debilitating crutch. It helps them walk, but it keeps them from running.

Practice does not make Perfect.

[Water Dragon]

It's called giving up the near for the far. Practice does make perfect. After the body is completely exhausted, it has a funny way of doing things the right way. Sounds like you have a little too much mental masturbation going on there. I'll give you a secret in two words: Work Harder

Although there are many styles, they all depend on the strong beating the weak and the slow falling to the quick. These are not related to the power that must be learned -- Taiji Classics

[wujidude]

I think I'm with shin on this one . . . practicing a mistake repetitively makes one very skilled . . . at that mistake. Diligent practice with opportunity for regular and frequent correction takes one the ****hest.

[Water Dragon]

Most exercises I have been given, and the majority are for developing power, have had the following corrections attached.

1. Go deeper
2. Go faster
3. Stretch out more

Usually by the time I'm about to pass out from exhaustion, I hear the "Now you're doing it correctly" I love so much. Too many place a high emphasis on "Technique" and proper placement when CMA is so much more concerned with power. And power needs to be Developed before it can be refined

I'd venture to say that the reason the Bagua guy sucks is two-fold:
1. He is practicing things that he is not ready for
2. The reason for number 1 is that he is not practicing with the proper intensity.

Here is my training philosophy. When you do an exercise, do it until you are exhausted. It is at that point you begin to do it right. The reason is that the body is simply too tired to do it in any way other than the most efficient. This in not however, a plug for learning from a book. A teacher is still the only way. I'm just against a lot of the theory time spent in classes. I come to class to train, give me the goods and bust my ass. I don't even really like seminars anymore because you always get the people with 50 questions to "make sure they understand" Practice the fukking drill!!!! If you're doing it wrong the instructor will let you know. This is Gong Fu, not philosophy.

Although there are many styles, they all depend on the strong beating the weak and the slow falling to the quick. These are not related to the power that must be learned -- Taiji Classics

[wujidude]

WD:
>Practice the fukking drill!!!! If you're doing it wrong the instructor will let you know. This is Gong Fu, not philosophy.<

My point exactly. But your earlier statement
>Most exercises I have been given, and the majority are for developing power, have had the following corrections attached.
1. Go deeper
2. Go faster
3. Stretch out more<

doesn't indicate very profound or even appropriate correction. it sounds more like cheerleading of the "no pain no gain" variety. That's a problem with a lot of teachers in any form or style of martial arts: they don't have any real training in biomechanics and approach training with the attitude of my old football coach--just keep slamming. If it hurts, that's good. Well if it hurts, there's a good chance it's wrong alignment--that's not only bad news for your joints or overstretched muscles, it's poor martial technique. It won't transfer your power efficiently to the target. And if the teacher's own form is wrong, mimicking the teacher's form with even more effort is just guaranteed employment for the physical therapist.

I know what you mean by too much class time devoted to discussions of theory. But class time spent getting proper correction--which for my teacher is always hands-on, with a little verbal coaching--is well-spent.

[The Willow Sword]

:rolleyes:

Whatever you think i am or want me to be,,, i am.
oh and,,,Jesus loves you, everyone else thinks you are an a$.

[Braden]

In my experience, the internal arts are about self-exploration. I don't think it's a matter of being given "the secrets" and then practicing them until they become natural. Rather, you are given training methods. If you practice them regularly, with an open mind, and while trying hard to do them properly, you will uncover "the secrets" - and that is the only way. The purpose of an instructor is to teach you the training methods, give you tips on how to accomplish good self-exploration when you need it, sprinkle the teaching with gems from his or her martial experience, and regularly check up on what you're doing in order to make sure your self-exploration progresses along the correct path.

In this regard, practice is indeed essential. But practice is not dull repetition. You must play with what you're given. But at the same time, you cannot play too foolishly. Like all things, especially in the internal arts, you must find the point of balance between the two extremes.

[TheBigToad]

My first Shifu turned me on the idea of training all the 5 fists of Xingyi the same way, a practice which I still do. Find a football field at any highschool/college and do say PiQuan (Splitting) for a 1000 yards everyday for a year.

This practice alone will make you very strong and internally sound and you will come to understand the mechanics of the form. Now there will be mistakes and mistake can be easily corrected after much work on what is wrong is done, the body will easily adjust to what is right.

Its really easy to tell who does what or doesn't do anything, the internal arts aren't overly complicated. They have rules and guidelines but nothing thats beyond comprehension. Mainly relaxation, learning to move in a natural way and producing intent are the heart of what will make you powerful. Anybody who makes it more complex then that is an misguided idiot and probably spends a lot of time thinking and theorizing then practicing and doing, which is the majot fault of there own.

As for this man that does Bagua 2-3 hours a day and he sucks? BS! Even if doesn't exactly do Bagua as he is meant to do he is learning and conditioning his body and will one day do it very well. I have no doubt he can wipe the floor with you, if not now, then very soon.

The circle will always be, but you alone decides when it starts and where it ends.

[MonkeySlap Too]

It could HOW the BaGua guy is training. Training wrong is one thing, training without thought is another. A great CMA teacher once told me "If you have skill, but no knowledge you are useless, if you have knowledge and no skill you are helpless."

Train hard, but train smart.

As for Wujidudes statement,I agree with you, but your statement does not apply to this case. That's my student teaching that class. It is NOT a high school football class. It is however, highly demanding. Most modern students just don't want to train that hard, or get that good, so they sit back with thier theories and wonder why they get beat up by people with no training.

After all, the harder you train in practice, the less you bleed in the street. Just make sure you are training your body, mind and will.

I am a big beleiver in luck. The more I work, the more luck I have.