CKF Application Clips.

[Eric Ling]

Hi folks,

Just like Robert (mantis108) said in “What’s your poison” thread, I am actually more into applications and fighting side of CFK.

I love forms but they’re means to an end; learning to fight.

So I am starting this thread to share some applications of CKF.

This first clip is very badly done; took it after class under poor lighting with a simple digicam.

Still, I hope to get the ball rolling here.

You see me do a basic Ancestral Crane technique here.

My student throws a right which I deflect with my right palm. My left hand slices his throat and ending with a 2 hand butterfly push. Something like Wing Chun’s “Bo Pai Shou” maybe.

Regards.

http://media.putfile.com/Ancestral-Crane-technique

[mantis108]

Hi Eric,

Thanks for the clip. Yeah, it's a bit short (too short really because you are countering quick there) and too dark. I can barely make out the images. But it seems to be a pretty interesting move. I have always wonder how different styles use "Bo Pai Shou"

Please keep 'em coming and I hope others with follow the lead in sharing as well. :)

Warm regards

Robert

[Eric Ling]

Hi Robert,

My apology for the bad quality of that clip.

Will redo, I promise.

Well, it was late, after my class (11 pm) and also the first time working with a digicam.

Hahaha, we were fumbling with the camera before shooting. Actually shot a few sequences but the rest came out as silhouettes hahaha but hey I am only a landscaper... :p :p :p

Yes, hoping that more would share their versions of “Bo Pa Shou”.

This is a recurring technique in all the Cranes I’ve encountered. Also a very important technique in Tai Zhu, Wuzhu, Wing Chun and many Karates.

So the concept that Karate borrowed from Southern Fukien Boxing is not that unbelievable.

You know what I would love to see us sharing? Chin-Na techniques embedded in the various CKF systems. I know Mantis has got very intricate Chin-Na and in some Wing Chun that I see, every sequence ends with a Chin-Na locking.

I will be posting a couple of White Crane Chin-Na next…. Better quality I promise.

In the meantime, back to my frangipanis, calatheas, musacae………

Regards.:)

[Eric Ling]

Nope, not posting new clips but a couple of pics.

Pic 1 – This is taken during filming of a CKF documentary last year. The film crew is from New York.

Pic 2 – Me taking one of my students through “Flying Crane” before actual shoot.

Reason for posting these pics; man, I wish I got that kind of filming gears at my disposal.

Pic3 – This pic has got nothing at all to do with fighting. My wife (her royal highness) insisted that I show something other than Kung Fu.
So, there you go; a recent pond garden that we built here in Kuching.

So folks, if any of you is planning to move to Sarawak and need a garden done, call me or else…….

Regards.

[Eric Ling]

Okay, clearer clips.

#1 – The same Ancestral Crane “Butterfly Palm” clip posted earlier. Personally, I think the key difference between how I do this and say, Wing Chun, is that I "whip" more. Especially the slicing to the throat action....

#2 – This is a Chin-Na technique taken from the 2nd Ancestral Crane. The technique is called “Fisherman Seizes Crane”.

#3 – This is a elbow-break technique taken out of Whooping Crane entry “SanJin” form.

Regards.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBiaWfUGKys

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPGe8ZXa0hg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSxDxNPaTgM

[mantis108]

Okay, clearer clips.

#1 – The same Ancestral Crane “Butterfly Palm” clip posted earlier. Personally, I think the key difference between how I do this and say, Wing Chun, is that I "whip" more. Especially the slicing to the throat action....

First and foremost, thank you for sharing these wonderful clips. I have say your crane hands are very fluid and crisp. I am just wondering the follow up of the Butterfly Palm in this case would be? That is if he counters...


#2 – This is a Chin-Na technique taken from the 2nd Ancestral Crane. The technique is called “Fisherman Seizes Crane”.

I definitely like this one. Personally, I would follow through with a takedown into crucifix hold.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBiaWfUGKys[/url]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPGe8ZXa0hg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSxDxNPaTgM


Warm regrads

Robert

[Eric Ling]

Hi Robert and all,

“I am just wondering the follow up of the Butterfly Palm in this case would be? That is if he counters...”

In the 2 men drill for the form where this technique is extracted, the “Butterfly Palm” flow into a “shoulder butt” sort of like Tai Chi’s “Kao”

The clip doesn’t show this clearly but this technique is about “4th door” fighting. Avoiding straight line collision and moving off angle but hitting on the way out; in this case the knife-hand to the throat. If I move to the opposite side of the opponent, I will do a hammer fist to the kidney region before the palms or the shoulder butting.


What’s a “Crucifix” hold? Hope it’s not something that Madonna is doing in her live performances hahaha…
Actually the “coup de grace” here is a downward elbow to the face.

The last technique is not so much a “drag” and break. It’s more 2 opposing forces acting on the other guys elbow.

If you bring your speaker volume up a little, you actually hear the little “swooshing” sound when my right hand goes backward.

And when we do the solo form, every time we come to this technique, my late Sifu would turn the other way and insist on hearing this swooshing.

You don’t proceed until you get this sound.

So maybe “Whooping Crane” is not just “Calling Crane” but noises generated when you flutter your “Wing Hands”.

Or maybe it just the Carlsberg…hahahaha

But seriously, I am getting some of my students to do a couple of forms for you this weekend.

- the Weito form - I only teach one short Weito form. Typical Northern form with "iron broom sweeping" to "Tornado kick"....

- I will mail you a couple of versions of Babulien for your study. You really want to see historical connection, you got to see the old stuffs. The newer versions has deviated too much from the original core of Whooping Crane principles making it murky for studies.

Back to the Carlsberg.

Regards.

[mantis108]

Hi Robert and all,

“I am just wondering the follow up of the Butterfly Palm in this case would be? That is if he counters...”

In the 2 men drill for the form where this technique is extracted, the “Butterfly Palm” flow into a “shoulder butt” sort of like Tai Chi’s “Kao”[quote]

Right, great move. :)

[quote]The clip doesn’t show this clearly but this technique is about “4th door” fighting. Avoiding straight line collision and moving off angle but hitting on the way out; in this case the knife-hand to the throat. If I move to the opposite side of the opponent, I will do a hammer fist to the kidney region before the palms or the shoulder butting.

I see and I understand where you are coming from with this move. BTW, the opposite side move that you mention is similar to the Lung Ying's Lam Da or Bak Mei's Bui Tsui. But the follow up of that usually would be Chung Tsui (kind of an upper cut).


What’s a “Crucifix” hold? Hope it’s not something that Madonna is doing in her live performances hahaha…

Well, she got the holy Vatican ticking with the "Crucifix". :D But then I guess I would get the "religious" Kung Fu Men all ticking with the grappling esque takedown and submission Crucifix hold. lol... Seriously, from the position that you are in you simply lock up his upper arms (from the biceps' side) with your upper arms. His head would be under your right armpit in this case. It is then a matter of pulling him forwards towards the ground and rotate him enroute to the ground. He would be landing face up and upon landing you would do a hip switch so that your right hip is close to the ground thus allow your full body weight aganist his neck joint. This way you are almost back to back with him. This is quite dangerous as a neck crank (tremendous pressure on his neck) so it is important to practice carefully and slowly at first.


Actually the “coup de grace” here is a downward elbow to the face.

Right elbow to the head? Good one for sure. Thanks


The last technique is not so much a “drag” and break. It’s more 2 opposing forces acting on the other guys elbow.

I hear you. Arm drag is kind of a MMA/BJJ lingo just to keep the interest of those who thinks that TCMA didn't have all those "modern day" techniques. It is the same reason why I mentioned the crucifix hold.


If you bring your speaker volume up a little, you actually hear the little “swooshing” sound when my right hand goes backward.

And when we do the solo form, every time we come to this technique, my late Sifu would turn the other way and insist on hearing this swooshing.

You don’t proceed until you get this sound.

Nice and thanks for sharing the tip. :)


So maybe “Whooping Crane” is not just “Calling Crane” but noises generated when you flutter your “Wing Hands”.

Awesome.


Or maybe it just the Carlsberg…hahahaha

here, here. :D


But seriously, I am getting some of my students to do a couple of forms for you this weekend.

- the Weito form - I only teach one short Weito form. Typical Northern form with "iron broom sweeping" to "Tornado kick"....

- I will mail you a couple of versions of Babulien for your study. You really want to see historical connection, you got to see the old stuffs. The newer versions has deviated too much from the original core of Whooping Crane principles making it murky for studies.

Back to the Carlsberg.

Wow, thank you, my friend. I am looking forward to these stuff for sure! Now, I am all excited. Thanks. :D

Warm regards

Robert

[Eric Ling]

Robert,

Check your email; the Crane has landed.

Regards.

[Eric Ling]

Hi Robert and all,

Got some of my students to do some forms today for you; lousy day for shooting though.

Indoor lighting is too dim and it’s hazy out today because of the fires in Kalimantan (Indonesia) next door. They are clearing jungles by burning for agriculture and the air condition is considered “hazardous”

Still, the kung fu goes on…..

Clip #1 – This is LuiHe Weito 1st Road form. Learned this many years ago and these days I teach this Northern form to give my students a more rounded training program.

Clip #2 – WuZhu “Character 10 Sanchiem”. I do many Sanchiems and this is one of them.

Aaaarrrhhhhh, it’s HAZY…..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXTNQ__0rZA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzs4C6ZWJcg

[taaigihk]

Clip #1 – This is LuiHe Weito 1st Road form. Learned this many years ago and these days I teach this Northern form to give my students a more rounded training program.

Clip #2 – WuZhu “Character 10 Sanchiem”. I do many Sanchiems and this is one of them.

Aaaarrrhhhhh, it’s HAZY…..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXTNQ__0rZA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzs4C6ZWJcg

Cool clips. Thanks!

BTW what are chinese characters for "weito"?

[mantis108]

Cool clips. Thanks!

BTW what are chinese characters for "weito"?

The Chinese characters for "Weito" or the proper spelling in Mandarin Pingyin is "Weituo" are:

六合韋陀門 - Liu He Wei Tuo Men (6 Harmonie Guardian Warrior Wei Tuo Gate)

Here are some info regarding 韋陀 that I wrote awhile ago:


Found some background info on Weito, who is one of the Guardian Warriors of the Buddhist faith. It would seem that he is among one of the most important one too.

first a link for the image of him:

http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/history/wei_to.htm

The description of him:

http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/history/weito-txt.htm

The most interesting thing about this handsome looking General is that he might be the Chinese adaptation of Skanda, one of the sons of Siva whom might have been the romantic version of

Drum rolls.....

ALEXANDER THE GREAT!

BTW, father and son in Hinduism quite often are regarded as one entity. So Siva and Skanda share some similar characteristics.

Here's an article about it

http://murugan.org/research/gopalapillai.htm

Now with all these info. it is not far fatch, when we look at the 7th Road of 18 Lohan, to see the deliberate spiritual design of the form IMHO.

Robert

Mantis108

[mantis108]

Hi Robert and all,

Got some of my students to do some forms today for you; lousy day for shooting though.

Indoor lighting is too dim and it’s hazy out today because of the fires in Kalimantan (Indonesia) next door. They are clearing jungles by burning for agriculture and the air condition is considered “hazardous”

Still, the kung fu goes on…..

Clip #1 – This is LuiHe Weito 1st Road form. Learned this many years ago and these days I teach this Northern form to give my students a more rounded training program.

Clip #2 – WuZhu “Character 10 Sanchiem”. I do many Sanchiems and this is one of them.

Aaaarrrhhhhh, it’s HAZY…..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXTNQ__0rZA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzs4C6ZWJcg

Thanks for the clips. The Luihe Weituo is very interesting. Definitely a lot of familiar "Northern component." I can see why this is taught as the basic form. There are indeed a lot of moves that are put to use the basics of northern styles. Good form. Do you teach more of these?

The Wuzhu (Five Ancestors) Character 10 Sanchiem is also very interesting. The double punch down in the opening is reminiscent of Lung Ying's opennng move.

Warm regards

Robert

[Eric Ling]

Hi Robert and all,

No, I don’t teach other Weito form; I can’t remember hahaha…..must be getting old. Nope not 64 but 47 going 48.

I learned a grand total of 4 forms from Lien Siok and like I said; not the nicest Sifu I know. Training with him was really quite stressful and when you are 19 going 20, that’s not the stress you need.

The other 3 forms are really very complicated in the Northern sense. A familiar concept like “3 techniques and not touching ground” becomes very evident. In Hakka you say “hands out stay out”. In Northern styles, the legs are expected to do 3 kicks in various combos. That’s the 3 and not touching ground idea.

Wuzhu, like TaiZhu, sees much of the “father goes son follows” 2 handed techniques.
2 straight punches is really the most basic manifestation of this principle.

Wuzhu has quite a repertoire of these 2 handed techniques.

Hendrix, if you are reading this, please comment; I was having a very “intense” discussion with Sifu Ku (Chu Gar Wing Chun) in Singapore a while back.

He said that one of the definitive Chu Gar attributes is this 2 handed execution either both attacks or block/attack done in one space. Operative word is “one space”.

He went to emphasize this by rolling off, in his style of, Cantonese which I find difficult to understand (or again, blame it on the Carlsberg)….

I should be posting a couple more of Wuzhu forms in the next few days. Just like in White Crane, after you’re done with the Sanchins, you go to your “Si Men” or “4 doors”.

Please note that this is GM Kan Teck Guan’s lineage paradigm and forms.

GM Kan is renowned as a Wuzhu GM but very interestingly, he is also fondly remembered as a Master of “Fukien Eng Choon White Crane”.

Most of the written works he left behind revolves around Eng Choon White Crane.

And in my old Fuzhou White Crane school’s “wall of fame”, GM Kan’s photo portrait is hung very prominently.

And knowing my Fuzhou elders and their attitudes and to see a “Fukien” Master’s picture on that wall must mean something significant.

Personally, I have read many of GM Kan’s work and I have nothing but the highest of respect for him.

For those of you not familiar with the Late GM Kan, a pic…….

Regards.

[Hendrik]

Hi Eric,

No, I don’t teach other Weito form; I can’t remember hahaha…..must be getting old. Nope not 64 but 47 going 48. ---------E


Hahaha, same here -1.



.

Hendrix, if you are reading this, please comment; I was having a very “intense” discussion with Sifu Ku (Chu Gar Wing Chun) in Singapore a while back.

He said that one of the definitive Chu Gar attributes is this 2 handed execution either both attacks or block/attack done in one space. Operative word is “one space”.

He went to emphasize this by rolling off, in his style of, Cantonese which I find difficult to understand (or again, blame it on the Carlsberg)…. ---E



Hahaha, must be intense. :D

could you please elaborate what is the "rolling off " he showed ? so that I can comment more precisely? Thanks.



peace





I

[taaigihk]

The Chinese characters for "Weito" or the proper spelling in Mandarin Pingyin is "Weituo" are:

六合韋陀門 - Liu He Wei Tuo Men (6 Harmonie Guardian Warrior Wei Tuo Gate)

Here are some info regarding 韋陀 that I wrote awhile ago:



Mantis108

Thanks for the info. :)
I searched for it in "Zhonghua wushu shiyong baike" and found an entry for 韋陀六合拳. Probably the same thing. You may take a look at the attached photos (don't have a scanner). Maybe you'll find something interesting for you.

[Hendrik]

Thanks for the info. :)
I searched for it in "Zhonghua wushu shiyong baike" and found an entry for 韋陀六合拳. Probably the same thing. You may take a look at the attached photos (don't have a scanner). Maybe you'll find something interesting for you.


Thanks for the weito scan photo.

Reading the weito1 scanning photo raise a question in my mind --- Does anyone has trained with the type of description on breathing and ....

IMHHO, this stuffs is not that nature at all. It seems forcefull breathing from inhale and exhale description. Thus, I wonder how is it going to generate Zhen Qi. It seems it is a hard bow art that using compressing, or even stop breathing at some points ...etc instead of the Dao mimic Nature principle.

But those are just my view. I can be wrong. Care to discuss?

[mantis108]

Hi Taaigihk, Hendrik and All,

Thank you for the scan. I would think it's the same style we are talking about here. Personally, I wouldn't take this type of book's info seriously. It's far too brief and generic to form an opinion on any style.

Having said that there's some honesty about what is disclosed in the description.

What it basically wanted to convey IMHO is the importance of the faculty of eyes (Yan Fa), which is something very important to the traditional styles. It conveys the idea of Wu Gan (martial feeling) as well as focus of movements. Here it used the analogy of battle field commands where the eyes are compared to the colors which signal the troops to perform designated tasks. The troops go where the colors go. But this analogy is kind of a clinche.

As for the six harmony concept. It's even more generic. But then it does differs from the so-called internal style's six harmony. The Gong training exercises named are also quite common in most other styles of Kung Fu. So it is not surprising to find that the breathing is rather forceful in nature. But this doesn't necessarily say that it is an "external" style.

Personally, all styles of Kung Fu as long as it has solid traditional background, they will be both internal and external (yin and yang as one) at the same time. The arguement about which is internal and which is not is divisive and counter productive. It is a marketing plot that get out of control. We should not perpetuate that as serious martial artists.

Just a thought.

Regards

Mantis108

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Sunday evening – should be sleeping but hey just got back from teaching and the body/mind is still going…..

Hendrik, you misunderstood me. I meant he was talking in his Cantonese that I am not used to.

Anyway, you know Master Ku; his hands will do most, if not all, the talking. His 2 handed techniques are really something. Ignorantly, I don’t normally associate this form with Wing Chun; high-low straight punch, po pai shou, double shearing hands maybe…..

Robert, it’s interesting that you wrote Weito inspired 7th road Lohan.and taaigihk, thanks for those photos. I got the same book but I never bothered to go deep.

Weito, the little that I know, is supposedly a very old Northern style; quite apparently so. Typical Northern gestures and flavors and applications.

The “old” part is not a hunch.

Some postures could be forerunners of some later day’s arts.

Take the opening sequence for instance, after the forward palm strike, the right hand is pulled back and the body goes into a “twist” stance and the left hand does a punch.

This, I believe, is the “classical” form of “fist under elbow” in Tai Chi.

From this posture, the leap and 2 downward punches with fists resting the thighs.

In Weito, this is “Wushong Beating Tiger”. I think 7 Stars do a technique almost akin to this except that in 7 Star, the protruding leg is a floor slide kick.

Well anyhow, if only I had been closer to my Weito teacher, I might have got a lot more out of him; history, principles blah blah blah….

Well, certain things are not meant to be.

Got 2 more clips here to share.

Both from Wuzhu and they’re “intermediate” level forms.

Clip 1: “Da Mei Hwa” or “Big Plum Blossom”. There is also a “small” version in the syllabus.

Clip 2: “Poisonous Snake Obstructing Path”. SPM players should find the continuous hand sequences interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yE1SEgpcRSs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnA32dap4Lw

Regards.

[Hendrik]

Hi everybody,



Hendrik, you misunderstood me. I meant he was talking in his Cantonese that I am not used to.

Anyway, you know Master Ku; his hands will do most, if not all, the talking. His 2 handed techniques are really something. Ignorantly, I don’t normally associate this form with Wing Chun; high-low straight punch, po pai shou, double shearing hands maybe…..



Regards.


Eric,

Thanks for the details. hahaha.

You guys must be having a great time.

Yup, the kuen kuit said " Kang Sau up and down differentiate Yin and Yang"

"double push hand deflect force in balance manner "..... all the two arms stuffs...

there are two arms against one arm, one arm against two arms......




Peace
Hendrik

[Eric Ling]

Hi Hendrik,

Got Master Ku on tape.

Will convert this to digital format and post some clips of him in action.

Peace brother.

[taaigihk]

I would think it's the same style we are talking about here. Personally, I wouldn't take this type of book's info seriously. It's far too brief and generic to form an opinion on any style.

Having said that there's some honesty about what is disclosed in the description.

What it basically wanted to convey IMHO is the importance of the faculty of eyes (Yan Fa), which is something very important to the traditional styles. It conveys the idea of Wu Gan (martial feeling) as well as focus of movements. Here it used the analogy of battle field commands where the eyes are compared to the colors which signal the troops to perform designated tasks. The troops go where the colors go. But this analogy is kind of a clinche.

As for the six harmony concept. It's even more generic. But then it does differs from the so-called internal style's six harmony. The Gong training exercises named are also quite common in most other styles of Kung Fu. So it is not surprising to find that the breathing is rather forceful in nature. But this doesn't necessarily say that it is an "external" style.


Mantis108

You're right. On many occasions those descriptions fit to many styles. Even if the styles actually look different. Nevertheless sometimes you may spot something interesting in them. :)

As for Weituoliuhe, I also looked at Wan Laisheng's "Wushu huizong" and it says that his Liuhe is of Weituo men. There's a whole chapter on it, as you probably know.

These are clips of two Liuhe forms from Lai Wansheng's Fujian successors line:

http://www.hc360.com/webad/1.mov

http://www.hc360.com/webad/2.mov

I think they even call it Liuheziranmen. Looks quite similar to what Eric Ling posted. Perhaps it's something closely related.

[Eric Ling]

Hi,

Thanks for the links – have not seen “Natural Boxing” for a while now.

Honestly, I think LiuHe Weito is as “Chang Quan” as they come. Typical Northern features, like I said earlier, postures, rhythm, intent blah blah blah….

The LiuHe is really very generic, as pointed out by Robert. Numerous styles, across the spectrum, use this for their philosophies.

Like Bau Gua for instance, I cannot recall the number of Bau Gau empty-hands, stick, spear, knife forms I’ve encountered.

I think “Weito Men” has its place for historians because the origin is so obscure maybe?

I know I am crazy about a Northern form called “Mei Hua Jie Quan” or “Plum Blossom Fast Fists” for the same reason. Who invented this form? What styles practice this?

As a kid, I was given a book on this form. Never really paid close attention because the entire book is written in “archaic” Mandarin which is not my thing.

Now this form is really captivating because interspersed in this seemingly “Northern” form, I find many Southern Fukien White Crane techniques; the single knuckle punch, the spreading wing hands and even a “beak hand” posture that is almost certainly White Crane.

Which White Crane boxer designed this Northern form or which Northern Master did this White Crane form???

Maybe I should think about taking up “Mad Monk” boxing hahaha…..

Regards.

[Eric Ling]

“Personally, all styles of Kung Fu as long as it has solid traditional background, they will be both internal and external (yin and yang as one) at the same time. The arguement about which is internal and which is not is divisive and counter productive. It is a marketing plot that get out of control. We should not perpetuate that as serious martial artists.”

Hi Robert,

Ditto.

And there I was wondering why all my teachers taught me the “wrong” thing; that kung fu is both external and internal and to have one you must have the other. Errrrh, if I am not wrong, even the Japanese are saying the same thing.

So it’s a marketing spin…hmmmm……

In the words of Kismet; you da man.

Regards.

[mantis108]

“Personally, all styles of Kung Fu as long as it has solid traditional background, they will be both internal and external (yin and yang as one) at the same time. The arguement about which is internal and which is not is divisive and counter productive. It is a marketing plot that get out of control. We should not perpetuate that as serious martial artists.”

Hi Robert,

Ditto.

And there I was wondering why all my teachers taught me the “wrong” thing; that kung fu is both external and internal and to have one you must have the other. Errrrh, if I am not wrong, even the Japanese are saying the same thing.

So it’s a marketing spin…hmmmm……

In the words of Kismet; you da man.

Regards.


Thank you, my friend for the kind words. I would like to further address this before my thoughts got lost on me again [I am quite short term memory challenged these days. ;) ]. Hope you don't mind.

I don't think the teachers meant to "taught wrong". As human we have limitations when it comes to the reality of space-time, we can only do or learn so much at a time. So prioritizing is inevitable. It's a matter of perspective; hence, the famous line "We can only take you to the doorway and you have to make the decision to enter or not." The best any teacher can do is to present to us the entry way to the secret garden that he once took and also those he found on the way to get to the various "sections" of the garden. There are times we would be able to see the water feature, the rest stops or whatever. Hopefull someday, we can behold and enjoy the full view of the garden at once. Chinese culture dictates that we as youngsters don't question until we are of age. So we would think that everything we were told are truth and facts. Until one day we as the pupil are ready and the true master came in whatever form that may be and we get IT.

For years, I have been taught or conditioned to do Qigong meditations (an integral component of Kung Fu) with Dan Tian being the most important. I met a mentor recently who does Islamic meditation as well as a number of counter parts. He explained why he felt the Dan Tian is not where we should focus and it makes sense (with his demonstration of his meditation "skill") Now this contradicts greatly will all the disciplines that I know. So what am I to do? Should I just leave whatever that I was doing and follow, this path that's presented to me or should I just keep doing what I was doing and disregard the "new" info? Well, I found the third option, which includes looking deeper into what I was taught from the beginning. I search deeper in knowledge and wisdom; and found the path that I feel most comfortable with based on the old and have the new as the new found strength that allows me to forge further ahead (in actuality going backward).

The thing is both of them are valid and both of them are heading towards the same destination. But the path that I took out of the two would be very different. The old path (the kung fu path) would lead me to Wisdom that would seem rigid and cold. The new path would lead me to Compassion that would seem filled with humanity perhaps involved healing. So my heart said Wisdom it is. It doesn't mean that my mentor's path is wrong. It is just that my inclining and the environment is not the same as his. But I intented to trim my path so that one day Compassion will be just as integral component as Wisdom is in my path.

All in all on meeting my mentor, I learn that I should not be afraid of nor forget to change and constantly challenge my previous understanding and perspective. The source of that strength is in the meditation techniques which he showed me.

Warm regards

Robert

PS It would seem though, Eric, you are on the same path as mine. :)

[Hendrik]

Hi Hendrik,

Got Master Ku on tape.

Will convert this to digital format and post some clips of him in action.

Peace brother.


HI Eric,

Excellent!

I will wait for you posting his clip.

Peace

[Eric Ling]

Hi Robert and all,

Thanks for the last message; soul-searching in many ways.

Right, the teacher (knowledge) would appear when the student is ready. Express differently by different folks but the idea is identical.

IMHO, a lot of discrepancies witnessed today are not the result of “interpretation” but more of “ignorance”.

Our paths will converge at some point I am sure. At this time, I am still very bogged down with understanding and presenting what I have learned and it’s no walk in the park.

Okay a pic here from the “Plum Blossom Fast Fist” mentioned in my earlier message.

I tell you this form is one of my ghosts…..

Regards.

Oh yes, Hendrik, now that we are family I want to know this; how many styles of Kung Fu do you do really?:)

The truth now....hahaha and I don't want rocket science type answer from you okay:p :p :p

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Posting a basic stick form.

Thanks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhieDS-778E

[TenTigers]

Eric,
which is the oldest version of sam jien kuen you are aware of? is there any fiitage that can be seen on youtube? I have seen five ancestors version, several white crane versions, of course the okinawan versions. I believe you had mentioned taizhu?
It's funny, I look at the Uechi and Goju versions and I don't see any one being closest to Jook Lum, but parts of each appear in the forms. Of course, trying to find the oldest, and thinking it will closest resemble Jook Lum is ridiculous, as Jook Lum has changed from Sifu to Sifu-("Gwok Si, Gwok Faht") and linking each to the short bridges in my Hung Kuen is not going to be direct but a linking, and connecting of the dots, and an unravelling of a chinese knot, but such is my journey.
(I always liked puzzles as a kid);)

[Hendrik]

For years, I have been taught or conditioned to do Qigong meditations (an integral component of Kung Fu) with Dan Tian being the most important.

I met a mentor recently who does Islamic meditation as well as a number of counter parts.

He explained why he felt the Dan Tian is not where we should focus and it makes sense (with his demonstration of his meditation "skill") Now this contradicts greatly will all the disciplines that I know.

So what am I to do?

Should I just leave whatever that I was doing and follow, this path that's presented to me or should I just keep doing what I was doing and disregard the "new" info?

Well, I found the third option, which includes looking deeper into what I was taught from the beginning. I search deeper in knowledge and wisdom; and found the path that I feel most comfortable with based on the old and have the new as the new found strength that allows me to forge further ahead (in actuality going backward).

:)

Robert,

could you please share more on the dan tien issues? what is the perspective of the Islamic meditation and counter parts. what does you mentor attain in his meditation?

Insteresting stuffs.

TIA

[Eric Ling]

“which is the oldest version of sam jien kuen you are aware of? is there any fiitage that can be seen on youtube? I have seen five ancestors version, several white crane versions, of course the okinawan versions. I believe you had mentioned taizhu?”

Hi Ten,

Which is the oldest? Like I said before, if I consider historical chronology, I would say Taizhu.

Is this a Taizhu invention; no I think the root stretches all the way back into Shaolin Lohan boxing philosophy. I know I am not alone in this opinion. I interact with many CMA scholars and this view is actually shared.

Variety of Sanchins that are commonly talked about:-

1. Yong Chun White Crane – You can find this in Martin Watts’ site.
2. Shaking Crane – Their site carries pictures of this version.
3. Feeding Crane – Sifu Liu Chang I’s tape features 2 forms and one of them is Sanchin.

Wuzhu (GM Kan Teck Guan’s line) does 3 separate Sanchin forms:-

1. 7 Steps Sanchin
2. Heaven, Earth and Man Sanchin – I will be posting a short excerpt.
3. Character 10 Sanchin – This form was posted by me earlier.

Wuzhu from other lines like GM Chua Geok Beng and GM Chee Kim Tong also do their own versions of Sanchins.

There is one version that I saw in West Malaysia many years ago that is really fascinating. This is from, yet, another Wuzhu line and this version is called “White Crane Sanchin”.

Exciting for me because it bears very strong resemblance to one version that I do in Fuzhou Crane.

TaiZhu does 3 sets of Sanchins also known respectively as Heaven, Earth and Man. I will post a short clip of the beginning movements of these.

Now if you look at Fuzhou Cranes; Ancestral and Whooping Crane, you will again find assorted versions.

One in particular should be the focus of karate researchers; the “Tiger Crane Sanchin” done in old Whooping Crane.

Almost mirror image.

Like I mentioned earlier, I am in the midst of organizing all my materials, prints and videos to go on-line. This should be ready in the next couple of weeks I hope and there I will present as much info as possible regarding this subject matter.

Okay 1 short clip and the mock-up of the on-line library site that I am presently working on.


Clip : Me teaching the beginning sequences of TaiZhu Sanchin.

Pic : My soon-to-be launched online MA library. This is a mock-up skin of the entry page.

Regards.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kg9hiiyI4Xk

[TenTigers]

Facinating-yours looks extremely similar to the opening of sam bo gin-but with closed hands, the sup ji saam jien looks like lung ying/bak mei.
the deeper you get, the more exciting it becomes.
I can't express how grateful I am that you are putting this info out there. I know I am not alone in this respect.

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Got 2 short excerpts here:-

1. Wuzhu “Tien Ti Ren Zhan” or “Heaven Earth Man Sanchiem”. Like this because it sort of reminds me of my MingHe Sanjin. Here you see “3 Angles” or “triangular” stance as opposed to the “hourglass” stance normally seen in other Sanchiems. The hand sequences also bring my “5 elements” concept to mind.

2. Hakka Tiger Sam Bo Jin. This is really an intriguing form as far as I am concerned. Got it from GM Liu Kao Chye here in Sarawak Typical Hakka expressions in delivery but strangely the form also evokes impressions of another Southern Fukien/Fuzhou style; Lion Boxing.

Ten, the Sanchiem trail is, in reality, a very long and meandering one.

Besides those that we spoke about so far, records exist to suggest that many other Fukien/Fuzhou styles also integrate Sanchiems in their training.

There is one style that you normally don’t hear much about and that’s “Fong Yang” or “Phoenix Sun”. This was taught in Singapore and Malaysia and I think it was also exported to the UK some years back.

Fong Yang, according to its Late GM Tan Siew Cheng, is also known as “Beggar’s Art”. Itinerant folks (not Hakka) who gathered skills every place they visited.

Fong Yang is another Sanchiem-centered style.

Then we also got “Ngo Mei Pai”. Ngo Mei is the nun who escaped the burning in Southern Fukien that you generally read about.

This style is really into “iron shirt” Sanchiem.

Both these 2 styles had very strong following in Singapore when I was growing up there.

One of the things I hope to attain in my website is to feature them by visiting and interviewing descendents before they disappear into further oblivion.

With any luck (and a lot of diplomacy I suppose) I’ll get them to do some of their forms and techniques.

Regards.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xp9Yk89m7ns

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbcFu0qn8qY

ps. if the good weather holds (this place is smothered by haze these last few days), I will shoot my Ancestral Crane's SanZhan for you.....

[mantis108]

First and foremost, I would like to thank you for sharing these treasures with us all. The amount of material you have is beyond impressive. :)

I have to say that your Taizu San Zhan is most remarkable. You know sometimes you'd have a "click" the light bulb is on movement. This is one of those when viewing your Taizu San Zhan. I often wonder about the logic of Wing Chun's Sui lim Tou. Why of all things, it is the most fundamental building blocks to the system in particular the Yee Gee Kum Yeung Ma. BTW, does this San Zhan has 7 steps - 3 forward, 3 backward and one forward once more?

As for the Hakka Tiger, I have mentioned my thoughts to you in previous emails. I can see it's relation to my particular version of Jik Bo.

BTW, I don't want to be bother but then I really couldn't open those files except for the Hakka Tiger that you sent as an attachment. So I can't comment on them. I am so looking forward for them.

Anyways, I really really appreciate the generous sharing. I wish we could meet in person since so much information can be share much rapidly that way. That are so much for me to learn. :)

Warm regards

Robert

[Eric Ling]

Hi Robert and all,

Thank you for your kind words.

Wish I had more time to include more but……..

Guess my concentration in on the website that I am working on.

Anyhow, just want to say that “interpretation” is totally fine in my book.

“Interpretation” based on “ignorance” creates a lot of “accidence” – to quote one of my mentors.

You are really sharp with your observations.

Have you heard of a Wing Chun teacher called Randy Williams? Heard someplace that he was one time, the personal bodyguard of Steven Seagal.

Randy wrote a series of books on Wing Chun (very well done) and he was in Singapore about ten years back; started a Wing Chun class there.

This was in a facility known as “Singapore Martial Arts Instructors Association” where my Tai Chor Sifu Teo Choon Teck also had a regular class.

Know for a fact that Randy and Sifu Teo had many exchanges; you know comparing Wing Chun and Tai Chor. And to answer your question; yes, 7 steps in all the Tai Zhu San Chiems.....

I will resend those “Babulien” files to you.

Want you to see the original version before mainland mutated them into a dance.

Take care my friend.

Regards.

Lalalala….. got a appointment to meet a Hakka Praying Mantis Boxer today. Getting my handy little digicam ready……lalalala

[Eric Ling]

Hi everyone,

Continuing the saga of Sanchiems…..

Got my student to do the first portion of my Ancestral Crane’s Sanzhan. The introductory form in Fuzhou Zhong He Quan.

Comparatively “harder” than my Whooping Crane’s Sanjin, this Sanzhan, like I mentioned earlier, looks awfully close to the Wuzhu “White Crane Sanchin” I saw all those years ago in W. Malaysia,

All my students do this form first before proceeding further into the arts.

Some Taiwanese friends also commented that this version is comparable to many Sanzhans they do in Taiwan…hmmmmm….

I am excited about the second clip.

The gentleman in the clip is Edmund Wong from Sibu, a town to the north of Kuching where I am at.

His style is “Southern Shaolin Hakka Praying Mantis”. According to Edmund, this was taught to him by his dad.

Wong senior learned this style from a monk who left China and resettled in Sarawak.

I spent a bit of time “touching hand” with Edmund after the shoot. True enough, this young practitioner is very good with his “Mo Kiu” hands.

Well you know what they say; “You could tell by just one look (touch hand)”…….

Regards.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmz3bwTiAxw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DYUiP1tGU4

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Lazy Sunday afternoon, thought I post one more short excerpt.:D :D :D

“Babulien” or “8 Linked Steps” done by Whooping Crane.

What you see is probably the “oldest” version of this form which is still practiced by the Singapore MingHe group.

This form is also known as the “2nd Sanzhan” by senior Whooping Crane folks and if you look at the form closely, it does follow similar attributes.

“Babulien” is not unique to Whooping Crane. I know for a fact that “Resting Crane”, a certain line of “Flying Crane”, Fuzhou Ancestral Crane and some other Fukien styles also do forms with the same name.

So Robert, if I view White Crane through numerical lenses, I would have a model that looks like this:-

• 3 Zhans (battles) or in some styles 3 Xin or 3 Stars referring to stepping pattern.
• 4 Men or 4 gates which is how most White Crane break down fighting domains.
• 5 Hsing or elements.
• 6 He or 6 combinations . The 3 internal and 3 external elements.
• 7 Xin or 7 stars. The 7 body weapons.
• 8 bu or 8 steps. The 8 ways to link all the above.

Well, like I said, it’s Sunday….time to lay back and break a Carlsberg…..

Regards.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cf6WZBKD2w

[Eric Ling]

Good evening folks,

Another White Crane clip…

Just in case you guys don’t visit websites in Chinese, here’s a clip taken off Taiwan Feeding Crane Sifu Liu Chang I's website.

Enjoy.

Regards.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIwtjkz2ldw

[mantis108]

Hi everybody,

Lazy Sunday afternoon, thought I post one more short excerpt.:D :D :D

“Babulien” or “8 Linked Steps” done by Whooping Crane.

Does the Babulien meant to teach Cun Jing Jie Li (inch power section strength)? I am wondering what's the relation of it, if any, to BaFen in some crane line?


What you see is probably the “oldest” version of this form which is still practiced by the Singapore MingHe group.

This form is also known as the “2nd Sanzhan” by senior Whooping Crane folks and if you look at the form closely, it does follow similar attributes.

“Babulien” is not unique to Whooping Crane. I know for a fact that “Resting Crane”, a certain line of “Flying Crane”, Fuzhou Ancestral Crane and some other Fukien styles also do forms with the same name.

Thanks for the info. It's getting more and more interesting. :)


So Robert, if I view White Crane through numerical lenses, I would have a model that looks like this:-

• 3 Zhans (battles) or in some styles 3 Xin or 3 Stars referring to stepping pattern.
• 4 Men or 4 gates which is how most White Crane break down fighting domains.
• 5 Hsing or elements.
• 6 He or 6 combinations . The 3 internal and 3 external elements.
• 7 Xin or 7 stars. The 7 body weapons.
• 8 bu or 8 steps. The 8 ways to link all the above.

Very nicely stated. It gives a clear progression of the system IMHO too. Interesting enough, in the northern Eagle, there is a form called Babu Lianhuan. It's also about using 8 steps/ways to learn/drill fighting with the form's techniques.

Warm regards

Robert

[Firehawk4]

Can you tell me more about Ngo Mei Pai and its Sam Chien form ? I wonder if Ngo Mei Pai is the same art that is in Vietnam called Nga Mei Phai or Wu Mei Pai that comes from the Nun Ng Mui . Robert

[Eric Ling]

Hi Robert and Firehawk4,

Robert, Ba Fen is done in Yong Chun White Crane. The “chun jin”, to me at least, appears to be close to some Hakka styles PM execution. Besides Martin Watts’ materials, I got some other info on this to send to you.

Babulien, on the other hand, doesn’t include this. And you are right; many systems talk about “8” methods including the Eagle Claws you mentioned.

Heard of another Shaolin set called “5 Animals 8 Methods”? Refreshing because this is supposedly a “Northern” product; long range stretched out postures/execution and yet using the 5 animals as feature.

Firehawk4, I think it’s the same Ngo Mui Pai.

I got some articles on this but they are in Singapore at the moment, sorry.

This is what I remember;

• This style was brought to Singapore by the Late GM Tan Siow Koon, a Fukienese.
• Taught under the banner of “Leng Sai Pugilistic Association”. Leng Sai means Dragon Lion.
• One of NMP students was Anthony Wee, the gentleman behind the “Bushido” magazine published in Singapore. Anthony had his own spin off school known as “Shun Lin”.
• When Mohammed Ali visited Singapore in the 70s, a NMP Sifu was “chopped” at the throat by Ali in a promo event.
• A very “hard” style. Seen some of their stuff and they are all into “throat tightening” every time they execute a technique. Personally they look a little White Crane, a harder version maybe.

I will post more when I lay hand on those magazines and I think I still have some video footage of their performances somewhere…..

Got one more excerpt for you guys; a Hakka style Kung Fu from Hong Kong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVRxjeyg8e4

Regards.

[Eric Ling]

"Ba Fen Chun Jin" taken (stolen) from Martin (mad Englishman) Watts' website.:D :D :D

Seriously, I think Martin is doing a super job in promoting his style of White Crane.

Regards.

ps. Martin, if you're reading this, Skype me and tell me how pi$$ed your are...:D :D :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4clsIv4sD0k

[Shaolin Master]

The HK hakka style is Baimei (or ykm) dishaquan (白眉地煞拳).

[Lau]

Ls, I think the practitioner is from Yau Kung Moon
Best Regards Lau

[Eric Ling]

Hi Shaolin Master, Lau and everybody,

Not certain whether it’s ditsa or not – quite a common name for forms.

Got the syllabus of GM Kan’s Wuzhu Quan linked and #19 is their “ditsa”.

Read in the other thread that there’s Jow Ga or Chou Jia practitioner on board.

Well my wife did a few years of Jow Jia in Singapore and her Sifu, Fong Fook Wah, is a good personal friend of mine.

Did visit her school and watch their training and got to tell you I really like what I saw.

Love the way they blend Hungga, Choyga and Bak Siu Lam…

Got a clip here extracted from their promo trailer used during the “1st International Jow Jia Wushu Conference” held in 1999 in Singapore.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XafrOJGwlo

Regards.

[Shaolin Master]

In GM Kan's syllabus did you also have:

罗汉五形拳
永春侯拳
达尊刚柔拳
白鹤八分拳.

Also Is 连花拳 also known as 连花回门拳
and is 大每花 the same set as 梅花百步拳.

[Eric Ling]

Hi Shaolin Master and everybody,

Can’t really give you more info on GM Kan’s Wuzhu outside the syllabus I posted.

What I do know is that they do “Wu Xing” for all their component system.

So you’ve Lohan Wu Xing, TaiZhu Wu Xing, BaiHe Wu Xing etc…

Now whether these are drills or actual forms is something I need to confirm.

I only know 4 empty hand, 2 sticks and 1 broadsword form from GM Kan’s Wuzhu; a small drop in their syllabus.

Got another clip here;

This is taken off a mainland DVD entitled “Babu” or 8 steps.

During the intro, the Sifu explained that this is the 2nd form in the Southern Luohan that he teaches.

This form is also known as “Babulien” according to him.

Regards.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kN6gU68W-W0

[Eric Ling]

Hmmmm…youtube is down today.

So got to upload to putfile.

Got another short clip here to share; this is extracted from “San Feng Quick Fist” which is really “Ershibabu” or “28 steps” from MingHe.

This form is changed to SFQC by the late GM. Huang Xin Xian and included in his training curriculum for Tai Chi students in Sarawak.

The performer is her deceased daughter. She passed a couple of years back here in Sarawak.

My White Crane school is connected with the late Huang when he was in Singapore and took a stint as the “Chief Instructor”. He is still highly regarded as a teacher within the Singapore Fuzhou community.

I do the same form but we call it Ershibabu or Nay Saik Paik in Fuzhou.

Regards.


http://media.putfile.com/San-Feng-Qucik-Fist

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Just in case anyone is wondering what Hendrik meant by Emei or Omei Kung Fu, I got a clip here of a basic Emei technique taken off a mainland production.

Ordinarily, mainland “traditional” arts materials don’t do a lot for me and there must be hundreds of these titles available.

Once in a while, I picked up something or relatives in Fuzhou sent them and I get thrilled.

The Emei collection is one such finds, the other is Yi Quan.

The things I find intriguing about Emei is:-

• The pronounced “whipping” deliveries in most of their techniques.
• Punching without the regular side-of-body chambering.
• The almost constant use of “phoenix eyes” fist formation.
• Some of their Chin-Na methodologies that center around pushing and pulling as opposed to the regular pressing, tearing etc…Ingredients from classical 72 methods of Chin-Na which is what most Chin-Na systems are based upon.

I think I read someplace in this forum whereby someone asked about which Kung Fu Mas Oyama studied and added into the formation of his Karate.

That style is Yi Quan and in Japan, it’s taught as “Tai Ken” which could also be based on the later day’s expression - “Dai Chen Quan”.

Hendrik, I was going to say Emei reminds me of Whooping Crane and you guys think it has something to do with the formulation of Wing Chun.

Could we be barking up the same tree and gotten away with the same fruits and not know it?

Hmmm..with all that barking, maybe it’s the “dog” or “ground dragon” fists instead….

Regards.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xqfZXDyukk

Just in case you are wondering why I am posting snippets and not intelligent cuts, the answer is that I am using a shareware editing tool with very limited functions.

I am only able to convert max 5 mins of any DVD I've got and that's the first 5; usually the intro credits...

Then I got to encode it to youtube acceptable format and again I am using shareware...

And most importantly, I am a landscaper; more comfortable with plants, shrubs and trees and not softwares.

There, I am a real DUMMY.:p :p :p

[Hendrik]

Brother Eric,


The Siu lien tao of WCK transmitted down from Yik Kam of Red boat via Cho family has been confirm to have Emei 12 zhuang platform.

We found out this connection some 30 years ago via comparing our Kuen Kuit and the Emei Kuen Kuit, and lately, Jim Roselando who I share with him the core of the SLT teaching met with the Gate Holder of Emei 12 Zhuang, Jim show him the move which I share with him, and confirm that it is a fact. So, the research of SLT since my sifu's era has concluded with an answer -- we know the parents of our art.

I share a little about the emei connection to Ku when I was in singapore 2000. Cho family WCK has been diversify and mix with the "harder" CLF at one point. Thus, my line is different from Ku's training. my line goes with internal and soft....and those Hua Jing stuffs..... in stead of CLF prone.



IMHO, I think there might be a big Crane and Emei connection happening around 1700's to early 1800's.



a different subject,
Since I also train in Kyokushin some 30 some years ago, IMHO, Kyokushin adapted the Yee Quan's post for the fighting stance. Kyokushin's facing stance in not pure San Chin stance but a fusion of San Chin and Yee Quan post, imho.


peace

[Eric Ling]

Hi Brother Hendrik,

To be honest I never really home in on Emei in spite of the materials in collection.

The only time that I really looked was when I was looking for roots for the monkey and tiger style boxing and not Wing Chun or White Crane.

There are others, in the little research group I belong to, who were studying the dragon fist from Emei. I read some of their findings and realized then what I’ve been missing for just skimming Emei.

Maybe “Shaolin Master” got something to add since he is so well-traveled on the mainland?

Besides the 12 zhuangs, I think the 36 hands is something I will start looking at.

Hendrik, what about “Guok Gar” ? You see anything there to do with Wing Chun?

Master Ku brought this up a couple of times.

Got another clip here to share:-

Taiwan’s Grand Master Dong Mu Yau, a highly respected teacher, doing his “Fuzhou He”. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtxjzphR8ao

I will try and post some Yi Quan clips later.

Peace my brother…..

ps..for those who don't see it, GM Dong form is almost the same as old MingHe Babulien...

[Eric Ling]

Here's Ruan Dong's version of "Babulien". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=he-gI6BimSY

Regards.

[Eric Ling]

Brother Hendrik, something from Wing Chun.

Master Lu, the current Wing Chun instructor in Fatshan Jin Mo.

Got his Wing Chun from 3 different teachers and one of them is GM Yuen Kay San.

A friend of mine met him on the mainland and told me that Master Lu is a brilliant Wing Chun player.

I got most of Master Lu’s work on DVD and I really like his stuff…

Peace my brother.

Sunday…wife got sausages on the grill….I got Carlsberg in the chiller….starting to feel like a German…lalalala

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cw3IhBXLAk0

[Eric Ling]

Hmmmm, Robert, our Praying Mantis friend, has been quiet lately…

Maybe a little Praying Mantis action would stir him up a little….:p :p :p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eg8XztDnfF4

As mentioned in an earlier message, a “Yi Quan” clip.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34TCAXfUrEE

Personally, anyone interested in the subject of “fa-jin” should really give this style a closer look.

They got many very good drills for explosive jin cultivation.

Regards.

[Eric Ling]

Scene from Shaw Brothers' "Challenge of the Masters".http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9UHmnO1MNM

Love this and other CKF movies from that era.

Regards.

[Firehawk4]

What does Guok Gar mean in English ?

[mantis108]

Thanks for thinking of me and the clip. I really appreciate it. I believe it's Zhang Bingdao, a famous master of Taiji Meihwa Tanglang in the video. :)

Sorry about the silence. I have been busy with a few things trying to help out my mentor in some of his business affairs. I will be helping him to sell some weapons that he purchase from the mainland. I bought some from him already but there will be more to hopefully found owners that will appreciate quality swords, sabers, etc.

Also, I just got another active RCMP member (federal police force in Canada) that sign up for class. I will have to work on a curriculum for her specific needs. So this year is busier than I thought even without any advertising other than word of mouth.:)

I am following closely to this thread for sure. So please keep the good stuff coming. :D

Warm regards

Robert

[Eric Ling]

Hi Robert, firehawk4 and everybody,

Robert, good to hear that you’re busy.

We say around here that it’s always better to be busy than idle.

Me? I say it’s good to hear the cash register ringing all the times..hahaha

Firehawk4, “Guok” is a family name just like in “Guok Fey”.

This is one style that is only coming out of the woodworks quite recently.

Got a clip here featuring “LiuHe” from Guok Gar.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnjHyDYfESw

Notice the vertical punch….

Regards.

[Eric Ling]

Robert my Praying Mantis friend,

There is this rumor going round that you’re also a Lung Ying high hand….:p

Got a Lung Ying clip here for you.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQ5pfm5yEmw

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

This is one style of Kung Fu that is really intriguing in my book.

“Shen Fu Shu” or “Spiritual Tiger Boxing”.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPP9_TNBhF4

A cut different from the rest of CKF, I find this style reminding me of the many Silats I see in my part of the world.

Some maneuvers and techniques also look like “Monkey Boxing”.

Regards.

[Eric Ling]

I mentioned "Bak Siu Lam" or Northern Shaolin in Derek's thread.

Well this is one of their forms; Cross Battle Fist.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_ILMRctJQA

An old form that also became part of Jin Woo's training.

Regards.

[Hendrik]

Eric,

My late sifu Cho Hong-Choy has Guok Gar friend, My instructor of Kyokushin in Penang is from Guok Gar family.....etc

IMHO, Guok Gar's art is different from WCK. the Power Generation DNA is different thus the applications technics also differents...


peace

[Tai-Lik]

I mentioned "Bak Siu Lam" or Northern Shaolin in Derek's thread.

Well this is one of their forms; Cross Battle Fist.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_ILMRctJQA

An old form that also became part of Jin Woo's training.

Regards.


Eric Ling thanks for posting this Bak Siu Lam & Singapore jow ga/Zhou jia videos on youtube.

regards
Derek (Tai lik)

[Eric Ling]

Hi Derek,

Again, you’re most welcome.

I actually got some more Zhou Jia footages taken during a Singapore competition held about 6 years ago. Those days I was shooting onto mini-tapes. Got to figure out how to digitalize them here in Sarawak.

Just acquired a full set of video editing software today and my first output is this slice of CLF clip. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KL108-I-vlA

Enjoy.

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Eric Ling]

And now, the often discussed but seldom seen Northern Tai Zhu.

This form is called "Tai Zhu Zhang Quan" or "Tai Zhu Long Fist" performed by a Shaolin Monk.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZkQ5qp5nHw

Regards.

ps. I see many similar techniques in my Southern Tai Zhu....

[Eric Ling]

Oookay back to my thing; White Crane.

Talked about this before; old Whooping Crane’s “Babulien” or “8 Linked Steps”.

Commonly known as the 2nd Sanchin or “SanZhan Er Lu” within the Minghe community.

I shot one of my White Crane teachers doing this some years back. Sifu Li Wen Shi is very old now and I try to visit him in Singapore every now and then.

He and my other teacher, the late Xia Mu Tai, are the 2 key teachers in my White Crane kung fu journey.

From Sifu Xia, I got all the forms and drills. Sifu Li, on the hand, brought my understanding of Whooping Crane to the next level.

Much of my Whooping Crane’s old history manuscripts and manuals are handed down to me via Sifu Li.

Regards…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8tIV-Bqnzg

[Eric Ling]

Well continuing with my “thang” ; this time, Lohan Boxing.

I was taught at the very outset of my White Crane training that “Lohan” boxing played a significant role in the evolution of Whooping Crane.

But with a background in Shaolin Lohan, this concept was to me, at that point in time, a little hard to recognize.

Shaolin Lohan and Whooping Crane are as different as night and day as far as I was concerned.

Over the years, I’ve discovered that “Lohan” boxing took many diverse routes after leaving Shaolin walls assuming different shapes and forms.

In recent years, I found one line of Lohan that is particularly fascinating to me.

A mixture of Lohan principles and I-Ching and spawning a hard/soft adaptation.

The clip I got here is one of their Lohan forms; Da Louhon or Big Lohan.

This form is portraying one of the 18 Luohans; big and fat and supposedly clumsy in movements.

Just like in “druken” boxing; you appear drunk but not, here the idea is to appear inept but actually staying in full control.

Another obvious characteristic is their fa-jin; almost Tai Chi like in many ways.

Regards.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRjvN5U8tRc

[mantis108]

Oookay back to my thing; White Crane.

Talked about this before; old Whooping Crane’s “Babulien” or “8 Linked Steps”.

Commonly known as the 2nd Sanchin or “SanZhan Er Lu” within the Minghe community.

I shot one of my White Crane teachers doing this some years back. Sifu Li Wen Shi is very old now and I try to visit him in Singapore every now and then.

He and my other teacher, the late Xia Mu Tai, are the 2 key teachers in my White Crane kung fu journey.

From Sifu Xia, I got all the forms and drills. Sifu Li, on the hand, brought my understanding of Whooping Crane to the next level.

Much of my Whooping Crane’s old history manuscripts and manuals are handed down to me via Sifu Li.

Regards…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8tIV-Bqnzg

Old Ginger is Definitely more spicy! :D

Great clip. Thanks for sharing.

Warm regards

Robert

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Got another CLF clip here.

Dragon form ....nice.....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ty48iE7GLY8

Regards.

[CLFNole]

I am not sure if that is the dragon form. I remember seeing this before and I thought this form had a different name.

[Eric Ling]

I am not sure if that is the dragon form. I remember seeing this before and I thought this form had a different name.

Won't know exactly; I don't do CLF.

It did say "Dragon" on the disc sleeve.

Got another clip here; 2 Guok Gar application techniques.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uHtV-l7hLU

Regards.

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Read someplace in this forum “old Nan Quan” is more martial than the newer stuff.

Got a clip here that might just back that up ….http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvKoonyyrOs

Now, crossing over to the internal styles; Chen Taiji.

Love the collection by this Sifu, very well-explained and he even includes the 7 characters fist poem that most folks don’t study these days.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZldU9ETBcw

Regards.

[pakhok]

Hi Mr. Ling, hi everybody :)
I contributed one for my opionion very nice form of Chen Taiji called Thunder form

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4y1Z3Ggm1t0

Regards

[Eric Ling]

Hi pakhok,

I think you should include all your other youtube links; the various Cranes from mainland.

In fact, the "Long-limbed Crane" clip contain 2 forms.

The first, done by a monk, is a Wuzhu form. This monk should be from Quan Chou and I saw a couple of them here in Sarawak recently.

These guys are very powerful....

Also if you visit www.wulinijia.com, you'll find a very rare "Choy Mok" clip in the "free tour" section.

Regards.:)

[htowndragon]

do you have any tibetan white crane or hop ga clips?

[Eric Ling]

Hi Jason,

Yes, I got clips of assorted styles waiting to be uploaded.

Got a clip here posted by pakhok. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a86DiXgIyBw

This is “Flying Crane” from mainland; love the “whipping” shown in the clip.

Regards.

[pakhok]

Hi Eric,

Nice to see you here :) I suggest this clip about Tibetan Pak Hok Pai , this is traditional form. And of course there are some nice clips on Internet about Lama Pai and I will try to upload soon that material. That is recomended for anybody who is interested to Tibetan kung fu like : Lion's Roar - Lama Pai - Pak Hok Pai.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEnr7o_JRcM

Regards,

Mr. Eric this is great clip Choy Mok thanks .

[Eric Ling]

Hi Milan and everybody,

You got some pretty good stuffs yourself - thanks for the sharing.

I won't be posting anything for the next few days; busy uploading materials to the new site that some friends and I are working on currently.

This is going to be a very content intensive site....

Regards.

[pakhok]

Hi Eric, hi all,

You are welcome, Like I told you on your email @yahoo. I have lot of this material and full versions of some rare footage. I will try to upload more vids to share in next few days.


Regards to all ,
Milan

[Yum Cha]

Hi Eric,
I don't have much to add, but it is interesting and informative to look at the clips you post.

Thank you very much.

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Yum Cha, you are most welcomed.

I have accumulated a tremendous amount of materials over the last 30 plus years and I really don’t want to see them “buried”.

Problem is transferring them on-line is a very protracted process and that’s why I am working with some friends to pool our resources to expedite. I am a complete dumbo when it comes to building website with necessary engines.

I will announce when this resource site is fully operational.

Got a clip here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHIRCh_p_5s

This is “Weito Stick” from Canton. Over the years, I’ve heard this form mentioned in many places however I’m not certain whether this is the form.

Anyone?,,,,,,

Regards.

[Buby]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lji8_uf1ljE - Gou Bu Tui -Nine Step Push

Enjoy!

Buby

[pakhok]

Hi ppl,

Does anyone know is it possible to download clips from youtube?

Thanks,

[Yum Cha]

Hi Eric,
Nice staff form. I like to see the longer staff forms, it is much more in keeping with the kind of staff forms we train. "Fishing Pole"

cheers

[Eddie]

Hi ppl,

Does anyone know is it possible to download clips from youtube?

Thanks,


I've posted this twice before.
You can download both google and youtube videos.
go to http://www.videodl.org/

follow the instructions. Get a video convertor file. Convert the files to avi or mpweg or whatever, and there you go :)

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Yum Cha, I will post a short clip of the ‘fishing” or “rat tail” pole later.

For now, I got a small portion of “Tam Tui”. This version is really quite unlike Jin Woo’s “12 Roads” or the Cha Quan “10 Roads” normally associated with Moslems in China.

I would be posting more clips in the next few days; extracts from materials that I am presently uploading to www.wulinijia.com

Regards.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKIbsCPFFaM

[pakhok]

Hi,

Thanks Eddie.
Eric I hope you got my email.


Regards,
Milan

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Milan, got your mail. Thanks.

Talking to my other partners and putting together a response to your mail.

Derek, got a clip here taken during a tourney some 5 years back in Singapore.

You see "Jia Yi" here doing a Zhou Jia form - don't know the name of the form.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PknpR1xpojg

My wfe would know but she out of town for a while.

Now the mice get down hehehe....

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Not clips but pictures..

Besides uploading video clips, I am also scanning books, magazines and pictures from various clubs’ commemorative/anniversary magazines to be uploaded to my new site.

Got 2 pictures here:-

1. This is a page taken out of Singapore Hung Seng Koon anniversary magazine published in 1972 – basic Choy Lay Fut hand techniques.

2. An old picture of my Tai Zhu Sifu Teo Choon Teck. This picture says it very clearly; one of the reasons we do SanChin in Tai Zhu – iron shirt Yin Gung.

Regards.

[Eric Ling]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lji8_uf1ljE - Gou Bu Tui -Nine Step Push

Enjoy!

Buby

Nice...

Thank you for the clip.

Watching all the Bak Mei clips remind me of something that a friend said; like watching White Crane on speed.....

Regards.

[fiercest tiger]

Hi Eric,

Thanks for sharing you stack of knowledge and collection of chinese arts, i look forward to seeing more. You currently train in Fukien white crane or many styles?

regards
Garry

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Garry, no sweat, you’re welcomed.

I do mainly Fukien/Fuzhou Crane and crane related arts.

These days, besides teaching, I am picking up additional skills from the many Hakka masters here in Sarawak.

Yum Cha, got a clip of Zhou Jia pole form here for you; more the “fisherman” pole you spoke of. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZncuJLmrzkk

Folks nowadays use the “Bai Lar” or “White Wax” pole more than the solid tapered pole in the days gone by….

Regards.

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Another pic here of my Tai Zhu Sifu Teo Choon Teck.

Sifu Teo or Ah Teck, as he is popularly addressed, taught “Tai Zhu” under the banner of “San Cheen Do” or “The Way of San Cheen” in Singapore.

Besides Tai Zhu, San Cheen Do also comprises essence of Wu Zhu, Muay Thai and Karate (Kei Shin Kan).

Ah Teck is a very hard Sifu and over the years, produced many “Lei Tai” champions in Singapore.

Ah Teck is a direct disciple of the late GM Quek Yong Hor, recognized by many elders in Asia Chinese Kung Fu, as one of the most significant Masters of traditional Chinese Kung Fu.

Pic shows Ah Teck splitting a unsupported red brick during a performance in 1972.

Regards.

[Yum Cha]

Hi Eric,
Thanks, keep them coming.

White Wax, as in Wax Wood?

We've tried everything but keep from breaking the poles. We have these new ones that are a around 60mm diameter that seem to be holding up. They're made of a hardwood that we call wax wood. Heavy suckers... :-)

[Eric Ling]

Now....

Some Northern Kicks....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGhLDEDpGas

Regards.

[taaigihk]

Have you seen this one?

http://www.zippyvideos.com/6083963774233096/dit/

Shandong ditang.

[fiercest tiger]

Thanks Eric,

Watching some of those Jow gar forms on youtube they do really have a wide range of techniques, weapons in there system same for the CLF lots of weapons as well hand forms.

Thanks again
Garry

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Yum Cha, not sure if we are talking about the same wood. “White Wax” is mainly imported from mainland China and for the longest time, used as handle of “red tassel spear” – a little springy when swing hard.

Hahaha, I have destroyed enough poles during my training too especially 2 men stick forms. To a point that we were driven to using hollow lead pipes, the type that were used to pipe water before they were banned for contaminating drinking water.

Pretty cool with all that clanging noise ……

Garry, you’re right. Most multi-styles system have relatively more forms; CLF, Zhou Jia, Wu Zhu etc etc.

I will post a couple of Zhou Jia weapon forms later; the trident and halberd.

Got a clip here that should be interesting to Robert; a Shaolin Praying Mantis form.

Named “Plum Blossom Praying Mantis”, this form, according to the DVD I got, is independent of Wang Lang. Supposed to be created by Shaolin monks after observing mantises in action in the woods behind Honan Shaolin. I really got to pay more attention to animals and insects around me…..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zX7xIyrONMs

This DVD is part of a very comprehensive collection covering almost all traditional Shaolin forms.

Robert, what's your take?

Regards.

[mantis108]

Thanks for the clips of supposed "plum flower mantis". I know your intention is good but ...

This is in my most honorest and frank opinion the worst possible insult to thousands of people, who actually practice praying mantis kung fu in the Greater Plum Flower Line, which has a common progenitor, Liang Xuexiang (1810-?)

Mainland commercial martial arts scene is in my mind shameless. But this is beyond shameless. You know that Chinese can use at least 21 swear words in one phrase. My sentence goes triple that when I saw the first movement. I just "endure" the whole so called form. No wonder people question if traditional Tanglangquan actually work. :rolleyes: I say we can't blame them wondering because of this below crap horse dunk floating around. There's no footwork, no hands (applicable combination), no body method, and worst of all there is no Quanli (pugilistic reasoning/philosophy).

Totally waste of band width, wast of time and a total waste of human intellect. Well, sorry that you asked, my friend. ;)

Warm regards

Robert

[fiercest tiger]

Hey Robert,

Tell us how your REALLY feel!!! hehehhe:)


Eric,

How many forms in fukien white crane that you practise?

regards
Garry

[Eric Ling]

Hahahaha Robert, any other response from you would have been a let down hahahaha.

I gave my feelings away, about this form, when I said “I should pay more attention to animals and insects around me”.

And Robert, my apologies if I did offend you or your Tai Ji Mei Hua Tang Lang family in any way; I have nothing but the highest of respect for your style. But you know that already….

Yes, you are totally right; there’s a lot of flotsam floating around.

You mentioned a very valid point; quan li. To me “authentic” is when you do what you do according to the “quan li” invented and passed down. That’s why I admire folks like you; working hard to safeguard the original spirit and flavor of the arts.

Trust me when I say this DVD is not the only to “borrow” a traditional name and tagging it to some movements to try and achieve historical credentials. I’ve seen much more of this happening throughout the entire spectrum of traditional Chinese Kung Fu.

You are well-schooled in your styles to spot the discrepancies.

But think about this; a novice encountering a mainlander speaking in native dialect, dressed like a traditional kung fu master and moving like, in this case a Praying Mantis, what would be his reaction?

But does it really matter, some might ask.

Imho I think the answer is “yes”; after all if you pay for a Rolex, you would want the real thing and not a copy, regardless of how good the copy might be.

Garry, pardon me if I don’t want to talk too much about White Crane that I do here. I have personal reasons for this behavior. I would probably share more in my website when it’s ready.

But to answer your question, since you asked;

I do 12 forms in Fuzhou Ancestral Crane and 10 forms in Whooping Crane.

Regards.

Ps. I don’t wear a Rolex. Most days I have a Casio “G Shock” on my wrist……cheap and really good.

And Robert, you can swear to my face when we meet next year..hahaha:p :p :p

[fiercest tiger]

No Worries Eric, didnt mean to intrude just there is so much new clips of your crane system was trying to figure what you guys have in the system and how its set up. No biggy mate!! :)

be easy
Garry

[pakhok]

Hi everybody,

Anyone can tell me about 'White Ape exits cave' form?

I will pay with few new lessons :D :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkvxxuqoenI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuAxihp7q0s

I have White Ape sword form and it will be soon in my YouTube collection :)

regards

[pakhok]

Hi,

Promise done :) White Ape sword form

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaEs76QethE

regards,

[pakhok]

Hi,

My contribution to the people

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSxp-xQwu3Y

regards,


p.s. I have only 1.000 vids vid forms and techniques to post in next few months, deppends of my free time


regards,

[mantis108]

My friend, you didn't offend me. :) But this clip or rather this video that is available on the market does. Personally, whoever involve in the production of this kind of crap deserves capital punishment if you ask me. ;) The total disregard of authentic Kung Fu is nothing new in the Mainland but this is the worst kind.

Honestly, maniland China has totally fail in proper Chinese education. That's why we have such a problem these days with all kind of copy right crimes. They have totally forgotten about the meaning of 仁﹐義﹐忠﹐孝. I have nothing against honest commercial products of any kind even art. But to soil the good name of a Kung Fu style for making a fast buck is just heinous. Without the understanding of the meaning of 仁﹐義﹐忠﹐孝, we are but another animal spieces.

Quanli or Quanfa is the highest expression of 仁﹐義﹐禮﹐ 智. It is above and beyond form and shape (形而上學). It is 心性之學﹐內聖外王之術. 不明夫此, 則談不上天人合一﹐心拳合一. Without the understanding of this, all attempt is but worthless. There can not be discussion of 體﹐用﹐功夫﹐境界.

The horrid display of ridiculous movement in the clip can be of use to some circuit clowns. No serious martial artist who has a good once of training would think that this is Kung Fu. But then you and I know that tons of people fantasize Kung Fu. Shiat like this actually sells! Most people have no idea that real kung fu takes on the spirits of the animals not the forms or shapes of the animals. All real Kung Fu is about 陰陽﹐剛柔﹐虛實 not imitating some silly movements that looks liks a dog p e e ing or a bug taking a dung. Cheap imitation of animal behaviour, that's just being fu(king stupid. People who promote that should be lock up in an asylum and throw the key away.

當年禮義之邦﹐天朝大國﹔今日小人當道, 風光不在. :(

Warm regards

Robert

[fiercest tiger]

Is the white ape a system or form from another system such as tong long?

Garry

[mantis108]

Bai Yuan Tongbei (white ape through the back) is an independent system akin to Tongbi (through the arms) and Pigua (split and smash) systems.

Nowadays in Beijing, a lot of the BYTB people cross-trained in Shuai Jiao; thus, created the impression that the the 2 styles were together.

Tongbi is also sometimes known as long fist; while, Fanziquan and Chuo Jiao are of the short strike variety.

Some of the elements of these style can be found in Tanglang of the north.

Hope this helps.

Warm regards

Mantis108

[Eric Ling]

Hi Robert,

Totally appreciate your sentiments. In fact, there is a big group here with exact similar views.

Mainland is spinning new stuffs without second thoughts about historical integrity; really nothing is sacred anymore in the land of “anything goes”.

Fortunately there are some there who still cares and these are the folks that we should be supporting.

I got a video of “Mad Evil Pole” form and the producer is frank enough to disclose that it’s not a historical form. Rather a recently pieced together work culling techniques from Northern Shaolin and TongBi.

He did not try to pass it off as some 300 years old form with ambiguous origin and that I really respect.

Even in the Crane arts that I do, I recently received some footages from Fuzhou that are really painful to watch.

Whatever that is on those videos, all the shaking and jumping, it has absolutely nothing to do with fighting.

And we wonder why Chinese Kung Fu was mocked as “all postures and no fights”.

Got a clip here featuring the trident and halberd from Zhou Jia.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1HX6alonNE

Regards.

[pakhok]

Real Wushu

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi ,

I agree and support all ideas and works for real gong fu not fantasy with maximum 10 % usefull techniques in all exibition or demonstration.

I will try to contribute with real staffs to share with you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mi-ClR3EArc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoKYgD5DQTw

and Choy Lay Fut http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTfFVwyG530

and Shaolin 18Arhats form http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdijrNuqCWQ

regards to all,
Milan

[taaigihk]

Found a documentary about Zhang Rongshi - maser of Shaobei quan or Northern Shaolin. This documentary comprises fragments of an earlier documentary about this man, that I've seen in the '80. Some of the scenes that were shot earlier were accelerated but still it's a good thing to watch. Listen to what he says about importance of maintaining fighting aspect of wushu and not leting it become peformance-only wushu. :-)

Zhang Rongshi and Shaobeiquan:

Part 1:

http://www.6rooms.com/watch/41477.html

Part 2:

http://www.6rooms.com/watch/53412.html

[FunkySage]

Thanks to Mr Ling for starting this thread and to everbody for sharing their videos. Unfortunately I don't have much to offer with regards to videos, so I hope I can just contribute to the discussion.

A lot of clips have been shown with a lot of "yuk sau, yuk keok" move arms and move legs to use a phrase my Sigung uses. This is really following on from the comments made by mantis 108 on wushu-type developments on the mainland. I'll mischeviously muddy the water further and make the statement "Just because its traditional doesn't mean its good kung fu either"

Now before anyone jumps in and screams MMA troll, I will say that I am only talking about traditional kung fu.

Another question then linked to the first "What is it that you look at in all these video clips to make you think, now that guy (or girl) has good kung fu?" and I'll go to say lets only include the traditional clips to get rid of the modern wushu argument. Is it the techniques?, how fast they do it? or is it something more that you need to recognise that isn't obvious to the untrained eye? or maybe its the lineage, if he has a famous sifu he must be good, or is it just all "yuk sau, yuk keok"?

[Hendrik]

My friend, you didn't offend me. :) But this clip or rather this video that is available on the market does. Personally, whoever involve in the production of this kind of crap deserves capital punishment if you ask me. ;) The total disregard of authentic Kung Fu is nothing new in the Mainland but this is the worst kind.

Honestly, maniland China has totally fail in proper Chinese education. That's why we have such a problem these days with all kind of copy right crimes. They have totally forgotten about the meaning of 仁﹐義﹐忠﹐孝. I have nothing against honest commercial products of any kind even art. But to soil the good name of a Kung Fu style for making a fast buck is just heinous. Without the understanding of the meaning of 仁﹐義﹐忠﹐孝, we are but another animal spieces.

Quanli or Quanfa is the highest expression of 仁﹐義﹐禮﹐ 智. It is above and beyond form and shape (形而上學). It is 心性之學﹐內聖外王之術. 不明夫此, 則談不上天人合一﹐心拳合一. Without the understanding of this, all attempt is but worthless. There can not be discussion of 體﹐用﹐功夫﹐境界.

The horrid display of ridiculous movement in the clip can be of use to some circuit clowns. No serious martial artist who has a good once of training would think that this is Kung Fu. But then you and I know that tons of people fantasize Kung Fu. Shiat like this actually sells! Most people have no idea that real kung fu takes on the spirits of the animals not the forms or shapes of the animals. All real Kung Fu is about 陰陽﹐剛柔﹐虛實 not imitating some silly movements that looks liks a dog p e e ing or a bug taking a dung. Cheap imitation of animal behaviour, that's just being fu(king stupid. People who promote that should be lock up in an asylum and throw the key away.

當年禮義之邦﹐天朝大國﹔今日小人當道, 風光不在. :(

Warm regards

Robert


Robert,

IMHO, even with the 心性之學﹐內聖外王之術. since it is a 術. There is no way to get to 天人合一﹐心拳合一.

Why?

As Dao De Ching chapter 19 said:


絕聖棄智，民利百倍﹔絕仁棄義，民復孝慈﹔絕巧棄利，盜賊無有。此三者以為文，不足。故令有所屬：見素抱朴 ，少思寡欲，絕學無憂。

19
Throw away holiness and wisdom,
and people will be a hundred times happier.
Throw away morality and justice,
and people will do the right thing.
Throw away industry and profit,
and there won't be any thieves.

If these three aren't enough,
just stay at the center of the circle
and let all things take their course.

二十九章（７３）

　　將欲取天下而為之，吾見其不得已。天下神器，不可為也。為者敗之，執者失之。物，或行或隨，或噓或吹， 或強或羸，或挫或隳。是以聖人去甚，去奢，去泰。


29
Do you want to improve the world?
I don't think it can be done.

The world is sacred.
It can't be improved.
If you tamper with it, you'll ruin it.
If you treat it like an object, you'll lose it.

There is a time for being ahead,
a time for being behind;
a time for being in motion,
a time for being at rest;
a time for being vigorous,
a time for being exhausted;
a time for being safe,
a time for being in danger.

The Master sees things as they are,
without trying to control them.
She lets them go their own way,
and resides at the center of the circle.


　　　　　　　　　　　　　



See, it is about Dao not 術.

And Let it be Let Go Let God, why make trouble for yourself?


When I find myself in times of trouble
Mother Mary comes to me
Speaking words of wisdom, let it be.
And in my hour of darkness
She is standing right in front of me
Speaking words of wisdom, let it be.
Let it be, let it be.
Let it be, let it be.
Whisper words of wisdom, let it be.

And when all the broken hearted people
Living in the world agree,
There will be an answer, let it be.
For though they may be parted there is
Still a chance that they will see
There will be an answer, let it be.

Let it be, let it be.
Let it be, let it be.
There will be an answer, let it be.


Peace

[Eric Ling]

Hi gentlemen,

Hope I am not opening that can of worms again.

Before I start, let me say that it could be my inadequate English, because every time I get embroiled in “Wushu Vs Traditional CKF” exchange, I end up being misconstrued.

Let me state a few points here:-

1. I am NOT against Wushu or anyone who chooses this path. As a matter of fact, many of my students here in Sarawak are Wushu athletics. Some are national and regional champions in their selected sport. I am the “traditional” CKF consultant in a predominantly Wushu institution. There is a full-time Wushu coach working with the same group of athletics. So why am I involved? The Chairman of the club believes that providing both traditional and modern training methodologies produces a “more-rounded” athletic. I am not arguing with that.

2. Traditional CKF is NOT about executing movements/techniques or forms in a certain manner. It about the WHOLE TRAINING PACKAGE, if I may. The end is about FIGHTING. We are talking about skill sets that teach you to survive potential life or limb threatening situations. Being pretty is the LAST thing on your mind here. Unless you’re looking to dying pretty, to quote one of my teachers.

3. Each traditional style is based on a certain set of principles or methods or laws, depending on the terminologies you are comfortable with. This dictates and shapes the entire training program. From how to stand to how to inflict the decisive blow, nothing is left to chance; you train and you train hard to become effective and proficient. In other words, you endeavor to be a lean mean killing machine and using the ways set down by the founders and others along the path of transmission. This is what Robert referred to as QuanLi.

IMHO, the problem sets in when folks “hang sheep head to sell dog meat”.

I WILL have problem when someone plagiarizes a name to peddle his own medicine. This, to me, is misleading and teeters close to defrauding.

Describing something as something it’s not is WRONG; plain and simple.

This is not about what is more practical; Wushu or traditional CKF.

When I fight someone, the last thing to bother me is his style.

I am really more worried about his strength, speed, accuracy and stamina.

And most importantly, his ACTUAL fight experiences and not how many forms he does, Wushu, traditional or otherwise.

On that note, I want to add that some of my toughest fights are against Muay Thai boxers.

And funkysage, no disrespect to your or your Sigung, all of us are in some ways “yuk sau yuk keok”….

Regards.

aaarrrrgggghhhhh, Hendrik brother you are back with your "deep" stuff again..aaaarrrggghh :D :D :D

[custom156]

Eric and Robert, this has been the best thread I have ever had the pleasure to read on this forum. Informative, entertaining, emotional and best of all real.
I applaud you both, and your last post Eric, I echo heartily. Don't apologise for your English either!

Be well.

[pakhok]

Hi everyone,

Eric is autority in MA for me in last year when I saw his activity and tons of knowledge and materials he have about MA. Like now he is of course :).
mantis108 is now one more with strong philosophy and I am glad that I meet them here.

This small intro is to show my resepect to them and their opinion bc I have question.

Is it moral to use some big MA database if they left it opened and nonprotected?

For example last half year I slept in wushu schoolar data base and I saw all material they have since they opened I think 2001. They have free vids in bronze collection and I put few intro clips from their bronz material on YouTube. Reaction was strange from their side even I offered to do immediately what thay ask or want. I just toght it is ok to share their FREE material and at the same time it was good marketing for their web adress and school. But they report me et etc never mind. Point is is it moral or not to use somebodys database or not.

thanks to all and regards,

ps. Eric never mind if your partners not agreed :) you still are and will be best authority in MA world over Internet for me :)

[pakhok]

custom156 where are ours shoes??? :D :D :D

[Eric Ling]

Custom156,

Thank you for your most kind words.

Honestly, I think Robert should be the one complimented; it’s not everyday that you find someone with all that profound knowledge and a passion to match. Most importantly, someone who is so honest and not afraid to speak his mind.

Tai Ji Mei Hua Tang Lang is in good hands with the likes of Robert Hui.

Robert, I salute you and your teachers.

To me, you are the perfect testimony of the outcome of having good reputable teachers.

Again, I extend my apologies if I, in any manner, upset you or your style. That was never my intent.

I was actually going to remove that clip but then decided against it; I think it’s important that folks see it and understand what’s going on.

Milan, please, I am no authority, just an older guy who started training earlier and collected a bunch of materials along the way. I’ve the good fortune of meeting many Masters and peers who are so gracious in sharing that all.

Regarding the other items, I will email you soon.

Moving along….I mentioned a “Mad Evil Pole” form in my earlier message.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9fmRln4RME

According to the Master here, this form was created by his father some 20 years ago combining movements/concepts from various styles including “5 Tigers Gathering Sheeps Pole”, “Miao Dao” and TongBi.

Now if only we have more Masters like him….

I think this generation got to work harder together to preserve and substain the arts that we all love.

And in the words of that hot sexy mama, Shakira, “No fighting, no fighting”.

She is so right; hips don’t lie, doesn’t matter whether you’re dancing or doing Kung Fu.

Regards.

Eric

[Yao Sing]

Hi,

My contribution to the people

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSxp-xQwu3Y

regards,


p.s. I have only 1.000 vids vid forms and techniques to post in next few months, deppends of my free time


regards,

Just a clarification:

The title says 7 Star Mantis but the video is Wah Lum 2nd Form. This performance is interesting to watch and the player shows good balance and flexibility but it's devoid of any martial intent. Most of the moves, in my personal opinion, are executed incorrectly.

This is the second time I've seen Wah Lum Kung Fu passed off as 7 Star Mantis. The first was the 12 minute Mantis documentary. Good stuff but not 7 Star Mantis.

I don't think it's fair to the public, or to either style, to misrepresent the arts like this.

[Yao Sing]

Oh, and about that Shaolin Mantis clip, I see a trend towards animal mimicking for show rather than fighting.

The opening show at the 2001 competition in Zhengzhou was spectacular to watch but there was no martial arts in any of it. What I saw were guys hopping around like frogs, scooting across the floor like scorpions, etc.

A bunch of crap that's just going to make CMA tougher to market in the future. Apparently that's what Beijing is selling these days.

[pakhok]

Yao Sing, I must tell that I am completely blind begginer when is Mantis style,like many other styles, are subject and my intention wasn't nothing bad just my wish to share some materials I collected arround the world. So consider this msg like my apologize and clip is removed right now. That is material I got from some educational institut in USA and I am not somebody who can even comment it not to represent.

Eric, thanks for explanation but for me the thruth is that I followed your activityes on Internet collected and learned much much more than I knewed before, reading your posts or comments I found many answeres and explanation with new details I need, and of course many materials collected followed your way like somebody who follows his lucky star :).
So you helped me a lot directly or indirectly, in both cases thank you.

Yao Sing, thanks for your comment i appreciate it, bcause it helps me to clear my wievs.


regards to all,
Milan

[Yao Sing]

No problem pakhok, my comment wasn't directed at you. The clip itself claims to be 7 Star Mantis when it's in fact Wah Lum Kung Fu.

Keep posting what you find and others will clarify if needed.

[pakhok]

Right, thanks for understanding,

I hoppe that this is not wrong example :) slowed down in teaching speed,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EKCvWaUmIA

and here is of 6 elbow pole routine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ8_XQvx_ho

regards,

[pakhok]

Hi,

Here is one more from Mantis 7Star . Please for your comment Yao Sing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7-504LADiI


regards,

[mantis108]

Thank you for bringing up a good point of contention on whether or not Pugilism is compatible with "Dao". Since your point is quite broad and far reaching, I will need to frame my answer with a story that would somewhat echo this line: 故令有所屬：見素抱朴，少思寡欲，絕學無憂。Subsequently this story hopefully will help me to address your views and of your using Lao Zi's quotes.

Once upon a time, there is this youth. All the sages and fortune tellers had predicted since his birth that he will be the richest person ever lived. His wealth would be many times surpass the all the kingdoms combined. He would be exceedingly successful in any venture that he attends. Upon hearing on these predictions, this youth waited and he waited. He waited for the fortune that was predicited to happen; however, many years past and he died as an broke old man.

When his spirit arrived at the great hall of netherland, he complained to the Emperor of the underworld that he should not died as an poor old man! So the Emperor quickly summoned his beaureaucrats and ask them what the hack had happen? They checked and say there seemed to be a descrapency. The man shouldn't died as poor. So they summon the God of fortune and told him that he might have been negligent. The God of fortune quickly studied his manual and said, "Ah, my lords, There is no mistake."

"This man really should have all the fortune that is destined to him,"
"However, I am ordered to give him all the fortune should he worked."
"I checked all 360 trades and enterprises and I couldn't find him."
"My Lords, I simply can not find him working; therefore, I can not delivery his great fortune to him!"

This is a classic tale of Chinese work ethics. The moral really is that you've got to work at something however minute or insubstantial it is in order to gain the reward. You must first give something (in this case effort) to get something.

For a long time, people see Lao Zi's works through a Buddhist len especially equating Wu Wei with Kong (emptiness); thus, all kinds of interpretations of non action, following the "Dao", etc... came about. Personally, there is nothing wrong trying to view Daoism as a universal philosophical school of thoughts but over analyzation and mixing of concepts and disciplines in modern day is a tat to "liberal" for my taste. Liberation of mind does not equal to liberal applicaton of convenient expedients (ie identifying, labelling, analyzing etc.) In fact the process is much more deliberate and intense than most would think IMHO.

Lao Zi was well schooled in ancient knowledge albiet it is Chinese point of view. He didn't talk of things, concepts and ideology out of his imagination or supposition. People often skip this fact when they quote his work. The result is "Heavenly Horse Walks the Sky" to the point that anything or any interpretation goes as long as it suits their needs and purposes (I am not saying this is the case here). This is not the best way to approach Daoism, which is the core of pugilism that I posit (note that I am talking Daoism not Dao here). Using pugilism that is akin to Daoism to gain insights of Dao is comparable to the understanding of the philosophical underpinnings of using intelligent design to grasp the idea of the Divine which might lead to the ultimate acceptance of absolute existence. Do not confuse the act of passing through the gate way as well situated in the interior of the room. ;)

We are at risk of misinterpreting Lao Zi's words if we don't put the effect to understand the context of his lectures. To gain something, we must give something which in this case is the effort of our study of Chinese ancient civilization, knowledge and culture. BTW, Daoism isn't about just Lao Zi's thoughts although he's considered the most authoritive on the subject due to the supposed meeting between him and Confucius, who might even have studied with him for a time. Lao Zi's teachings has its philosophical footing in traditional Chinese education system that is based on the study of the 6 Classics including the Yijing (Classic of Change). In fact, there's a lot of commonalities in thoughts and concepts found in the classics espcially in the Yijing and Lao Zi's blend of Daoism. All of these classics are about Tian(Heaven), Di (Earth), and Ren (Human) - San Cai. More importantly they are about the "way" of 天人合一 (Tian Ren He Yi). It is for this reason that I postulated that Yijing and Lao Zi's blend of Daoism forms the fundation of philosophical and theoretical core of pugilism known as Kung Fu or Wuxue not Wushu (modern, traditional, or western) a mere skillset.

There is an old adage that Xiang (shape, form) came from Xin (heart, mind). This is very true if we observe the facial features, expressions, and physique. I just saw a picture of a gunman that shot many in Montreal couple days ago. He definitely had the classic vicious features described in many Chinese books. Now this is now about profiling some unfortunate soul. The point is Xiang does form from the Xin. Back to our topic, I don't think I need to tell most of you that the countenance of master is often highly remarkable and unique. The same with a statesman or a good athlet who has great sportsmanship. A boxer's build is distinct just as a Ju Jitsuka, Judoka, Karateka are all unique and distinguished. This is a sign of Xin Quan He Yi (mind and fist are one). In layman's term - the way you are will show in your Kung Fu and the Kung Fu that you learn will in turn build you both phyiscally, mentally, emotionally as a person. That, my friend, is 心拳合一.

The truth of the matter is that it isn't Lao Zi didn't talk or taught Ren Yi and other concepts that can be found in Confucian school. Otherwise, Confucius wouldn't have interviewed (possibly learned) and commended him as profound as the "Dragon". It is just that he saw these "values" as Confucian preached are superficial and hypocritical in nature. Those "values" were frequently used as excuses to gain political advantages for countries and statesmen alike during his time and the effects are possibly irreversible in his view. New ritual rites, laws, etc were invented arbiturarily unlike the ancient practice of observation of nature. In his eyes, the federal state had become blind and lawless by false values. We are not deviated from or commited blasphemy to Lao Zi's Daoism by talking Ren (compassion) and Yi (righteousness) if we understood what he really meant within the context of his time. But if we don't remain vigilant about proper attitude towards studying in general, we might became one of those foolish people in Lao Zi's eyes. :)

Just like the young man in my story, we are at risk of not doing anything about gaining the fortune. If we don't study pugilism that I posited (one enterpise out of the 360 so to speak), we are of course not going to get our fortune (Tian Ren He Yi, Xin Quan He Yi) let alone gaining insight of Dao. So you see we can not sit there and listen to the sages and fortune tellers in this case Lao Zi's lectures. We have to be our own light and take matters into our own hands (within good reason). Of course, we could also choose to deny our destiny of gaining the fortune by sitting, waiting, wondering or just listen to others including Lao Zi's opinions about it. ;)

Warm regards

Mantis108

PS I would like to quickly thank all of you for the kind words, support and encouragement. I appreciated them very much. I really don't deserve those compliments and praises. I will respond to your posts later when I have more time.

[Shaolin Master]

Hi All,

Not to be over-simplistic, but is all the emotion and philosophising required (even though I love the 心拳合一). To keep it simple judge, comment appreciate ignore. Modern media allows the ability to communicate like never before and with that comes good and bad. Therefore any materials from China or USA or France or anywhere basically is prone to the same. Just as you cannot control or judge programs on tv or in movies, which are built for a variety of audiences not just oneself, nor should anything else be subject to the same. If you don't like it ignore and go on.

Anyways, Threadwise:
Your Mad Evil Pole is 'Fengmo Gun' which is a defintive part of current Pigua practice and developed by the well known master Guo Changsheng (with Ma Yingtu's assistance) and further improved by his son Guo Ruixiang (who is in white in the clip posted).

Eric, maybe you should post more Nanyang things as opposed to your newly resourced mainland clips as probably that contains a little more flavor for the audiences here.

The seven star meihuaquan, seems in line with the HK approach, given the speed it is difficult to assess the flavor but at least the order is close. Thanks for your postings Pak Hok.

Regards
Wu Chanlong

PS: This thread commenced as and is titled as 'CKF Applications' but ended being a forms gallery....where did the applications go :-)

[pakhok]

Hi everyone,

I am glad if you liked uploaded vids :)

here is one collection 6 spears and pole routines.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJzF7lj7Loc

regards to all,
Milan

[Shaolin Master]

That was a good clip, the Yinbaqiang, Huaqiang, Tiaozigun and Simenqiang were all quite nice.

Thanks
Wu Chanlong

Unlike the crazy baton stuff below: hehe crazy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqgWxnGyW3w

[mantis108]

Hi gentlemen,

Hope I am not opening that can of worms again.

Before I start, let me say that it could be my inadequate English, because every time I get embroiled in “Wushu Vs Traditional CKF” exchange, I end up being misconstrued.

Let me state a few points here:-

1. I am NOT against Wushu or anyone who chooses this path. As a matter of fact, many of my students here in Sarawak are Wushu athletics. Some are national and regional champions in their selected sport. I am the “traditional” CKF consultant in a predominantly Wushu institution. There is a full-time Wushu coach working with the same group of athletics. So why am I involved? The Chairman of the club believes that providing both traditional and modern training methodologies produces a “more-rounded” athletic. I am not arguing with that.

2. Traditional CKF is NOT about executing movements/techniques or forms in a certain manner. It about the WHOLE TRAINING PACKAGE, if I may. The end is about FIGHTING. We are talking about skill sets that teach you to survive potential life or limb threatening situations. Being pretty is the LAST thing on your mind here. Unless you’re looking to dying pretty, to quote one of my teachers.

3. Each traditional style is based on a certain set of principles or methods or laws, depending on the terminologies you are comfortable with. This dictates and shapes the entire training program. From how to stand to how to inflict the decisive blow, nothing is left to chance; you train and you train hard to become effective and proficient. In other words, you endeavor to be a lean mean killing machine and using the ways set down by the founders and others along the path of transmission. This is what Robert referred to as QuanLi.

IMHO, the problem sets in when folks “hang sheep head to sell dog meat”.

I WILL have problem when someone plagiarizes a name to peddle his own medicine. This, to me, is misleading and teeters close to defrauding.

Describing something as something it’s not is WRONG; plain and simple.

This is not about what is more practical; Wushu or traditional CKF.

When I fight someone, the last thing to bother me is his style.

I am really more worried about his strength, speed, accuracy and stamina.

And most importantly, his ACTUAL fight experiences and not how many forms he does, Wushu, traditional or otherwise.

On that note, I want to add that some of my toughest fights are against Muay Thai boxers.

And funkysage, no disrespect to your or your Sigung, all of us are in some ways “yuk sau yuk keok”….

Regards.

aaarrrrgggghhhhh, Hendrik brother you are back with your "deep" stuff again..aaaarrrggghh :D :D :D

Excellently put, my friend. :)

Warm regards

Robert

[mantis108]

Custom156,

Thank you for your most kind words.

I would like to than Custom156 for his kind words and support as well. :)


Honestly, I think Robert should be the one complimented; it’s not everyday that you find someone with all that profound knowledge and a passion to match. Most importantly, someone who is so honest and not afraid to speak his mind.

My friend, I really appreciate the compliments. Your praise is way too much. I am just a guy who happens to love Kung Fu. I am sure the feeling is mutual.


Tai Ji Mei Hua Tang Lang is in good hands with the likes of Robert Hui.

Robert, I salute you and your teachers.

Thank you and I am sure they will appreciate the recognition and the commendation. :) Indeed, I own everything to my teachers whom I have the great fortune to learn and train from.


To me, you are the perfect testimony of the outcome of having good reputable teachers.

Personally, like you, I do value highly the invaluable experience, knowledge and wisdom of my teachers. I would encourage anyone who is serious about martial arts to seek out the good teachers reputable or not. There's really nothing like having the guardiance that they can give you.


Again, I extend my apologies if I, in any manner, upset you or your style. That was never my intent.

Please no need to apologies, you didn't offend me by bring my attention to the clip. You didn't make that video in the first place. ;) In fact, I should thank you for that because it give us all the more reason to work harder to promote authentic TCMA.


I was actually going to remove that clip but then decided against it; I think it’s important that folks see it and understand what’s going on.

Yes, good call. :)

Warm regards

Robert

[Hendrik]

Thank you for bringing up a good point of contention on whether or not Pugilism is compatible with "Dao". Since your point is quite broad and far reaching, I will need to frame my answer with a story that would somewhat echo this line: 故令有所屬：見素抱朴，少思寡欲，絕學無憂。Subsequently this story hopefully will help me to address your views and of your using Lao Zi's quotes. ..............



IMHO,

It is not about philosophical, it is not about cultural, it doesnt even have to follow the ancient Chinese value system where one value of 仁﹐義﹐忠﹐孝.



天人合一, 心拳合一, can be done.
As soon as one knows how to drop one's thought and not hold on to thoughts.
See, Thought is a limiting process. Mind is just a collection of thoughts.

and if one is identify with a style, a race, a religion, a method to do thing, that has fallen into Limitation. Thus, there is no way one attain 天人合一, 心拳合一.

with this type of depression thoughts--> 當年禮義之邦﹐天朝大國﹔今日小人當道, 風光不在. ONe forsure cannot enter into 天人合一.




心性之學﹐is not about 內聖外王之"術". but about 絕學無憂. No thoughts.

then,
陰陽﹐剛柔﹐虛實 is not about thoughts but once one return to no thought state, The Nature will reveal itself.
Thus, it said, 天下神器，不可為也。為者敗之，執者失之.



The path to 天人合一, 心拳合一. is
為無為，事無事，味無味。大小多少，報怨以德。圖難于其易﹔為大于其細。天下難事，必作于易﹔天下大事，必 作于細。是以聖人終不為大，故能成其大。夫輕諾必寡信，多易必多難。是以聖人猶難之，故終無難 矣。



otherwise, one couldnt even attain the first milestone of Qigong training ---> silence or quieting the mind and using the Yee.

HOw then one can attain collecting the Yee to union with the Shen?

not to mention how can one attain union the Shen and Zhen Qi in Dan Tien to cultivate the goldern pill and using Yee to lead Qi.

Without a proper direction with clear processs and steps instead of thinking. One has no chance at all.



it is beyond religion or race, from east or west..... all sages from east and west knows.

The prayer, The Let Go Let God, the Listern to silence, the .... all are pointing to the same direction ---->為無為，事無事，味無味。there one enter into 天人合一, 心拳合一

[Eric Ling]

Hi all,

Shaolin Master, a question for you:-

“Nanyang flavor” – more suitable for the audience here. Why is this so? Are you implying that the arts took a different course after leaving mainland and thus assuming a distinct separable flavor? Or mainland tweaked whatever that was left and now do it another way from Nanyang?

Again I want to highlight that this topic is confined to traditional CKF, so please people, don’t muddle it by adding any Wushu comparison.

Why should a same style, with the same founder and training curriculum emerge so different when performed by a mainlander and someone from Nanyang?

Who changed what?

And why is there this tendency for mainland’s deliveries to display excessive mimicry and dance-like entertaining rhythm?

What am I missing here?

Regards.

[FunkySage]

There has been no mention of yu-ma from anyone. As far as I'm concerned yu-ma is central to CMA. No yu-ma and you just yuk-sau yuk keok. Doesn't matter whether you are from a traditional school or not. If you don't have it, doesn't matter how much martial intent you put in, its still poor kung fu. I personally think to have yu-ma while doing wushu is better than to have no yu-ma and doing traditional CMA. Yu-ma is the core from which you develop from and that has to be understood first and foremost IMO. More important than techniques.

I disagree that the end product of kung fu is just about fighting. I see kung fu as a way of personal development physically, mentally and spiritually which also includes the health aspects. To think that the end point is the fighting is in my opinion short sighted. Why bother introducing all the chi-gung and health aspects to styles if its just about fighting. Just go learn techniques then, there is no need for these other things.

[Eric Ling]

Errrrrh don’t know which style of kung fu you do but almost all styles has “LiuHe” as basic platform.

“LiuHe” or “6 combinations” refers to:-

internal : heart (xin) and intent (yi)
intent and chi
chi and strength (li)

external : hands and legs
elbows and knees
shoulders and hips

By “yu ma” I take it that we are looking at “waist and horse”.

This is covered in the basics in all styles.

Yes we do “chi gung” and “health aspect” in Kung fu to make us a better fighter. You need to be healthy if you want to be any good in fighting.

Whether we fight or not is then largely determined by our values/sense of what’s right or wrong.

In kung fu, this is where “philosophy” serves as a guide.

Ultimately, you are right; it is about spiritual development.

To be “ren shan ren”.

Regards.

[Eric Ling]

Shaolin Master,

Thank you very much for that message.

You’re right on the mark in that:-

• Many mainland “traditional” kung fu folks stem from modern Wushu background. How do I know? I did not read this someplace. My colleague in the Kung Fu school where I consult with is from mainland. Originally a “village” Hsing Yi player form Honan, he enrolled in a Wushu institute to carve out a career in Wushu. He is now a qualified Wushu coach deployed to Sarawak. I spent much time exchanging on the very same topic with him and guess what? You are spot on; folks with Wushu training there tend to carry that with them even if they switch to traditional Kung Fu.

Most commercial videos are spiced up for marketability; this is to be expected. But if overdone, don’t you think you are doing a big disservice to the arts with long traditions. All for a few more bucks?

My perception of mainland is, largely, formed by interactions with relatives and friends from mainland. I am not going to generalize by saying that there are no authentic traditional arts surviving there but neither am I going to agree that China is where you should seek all traditional arts. The Cultural Revolution did a splendid job in cutting many art forms there to a mere shadow of what they were before. There was a period, post Mao, that many Nanyang Chinese were called to return to replant and restart the arts not just Kung Fu but other art forms too.

And no I am not alluding to Ruan Dong, who is more or less related to my late teacher Xia Mu Tai. In fact I am putting together an event next year that might just include Ruan. Would be fun for me to touch and feel his MingHe seeing that we are both supposed to be from the same style.

All the redundant “shaking and jumping” I spoke of could be seen in many Crane arts that are now dished out by mainland. And these are not commercial projects but private footages shot by relatives and friends there for me.

Shaolin Master, it is not as simple as ignoring and moving on.

What if I turn the table around and show you someone doing a fanciful “Yi Zhi Mei” dance with unnecessary spins and turns?

Are you honestly going to tell me you would turn the other way and not comment at the very least?

I guess it’s only fair to say that you will only really understand when you or your style is victimized.

And no I am not being “deep”……. drunk maybe hahaha…

Regards.

[Shaolin Master]

Eric,

I have seen many peculiar Yizhimei...and we comment but then turn the other way. As long as you practice what you hold to be true then it would not make much difference, just let people know accordingly but do not take a nation down in the process.

Having emptied the cup so many times....maybe I have only emptiness remaining and have therefore lost the motivation to become overly critical or emotional (too much Luohan) :)

Regards
Wu Chanlong
PS: Oh as you were the target audience the other post was removed.

[Eric Ling]

Hahaha, brother..

Now you are beginning to sound like Hendrik…emptiness, detachment and next you are going to tell me you see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Me, take a nation down? No No No, I consider myself a descendent of the Dragon too...

I am glad you brought up Ah Joo’s name; yes he was all about PRACTICAL.

Can’t say the same for much of the mush I see happening these days.

I don’t know, maybe I am just getting old and want to see that some “old” stuff get passed on intact and folks can learn and do whatever they see fit afterwards. We lost too much as it is already…

Or maybe I am just trying to fulfill what my teachers ordered.

Whatever, don’t lose motivation please. You are someone with apparent enormous knowledge and giving up is going to be a big lost to traditional CKF.

Someone told me you are not Chinese but hey, you could have fooled me easy.

Kan Bei brother…..:) :) :)

Regards.

Eric

[Hendrik]

Hahaha, brother..

Now you are beginning to sound like Hendrik…emptiness, detachment ...........)

Regards.

Eric



Hahaha,

Brothers, Dont forget that Sigung Sek Koh Sam is a Zen monk 48 generation before his is a martial monk. and Emtiness is the mind seal "xing Yin" of Zen.


http://www.kungfu-supply.nl/sekkohsam/china.htm


Zen is what my sifu Fa Chan taugh me beside the martial art stuffs.

http://www.kungfu-supply.nl/sekkohsam/indonesia.htm


IMHO, this Zen part of Sigung's kung fu also need to be preserved.


peace
Hendrik

[Eric Ling]

Hahaha,

Brothers, Dont forget that Sigung Sek Koh Sam is a Zen monk 48 generation before his is a martial monk. and Emtiness is the mind seal "xing Yin" of Zen.


http://www.kungfu-supply.nl/sekkohsam/china.htm


Zen is what my sifu Fa Chan taugh me beside the martial art stuffs.

http://www.kungfu-supply.nl/sekkohsam/indonesia.htm


IMHO, this Zen part of Sigung's kung fu also need to be preserved.


peace
Hendrik

The Zen part, the “deep” tough part – your job brother.

Me, I am born empty – a regular dumbo…

You want me to cultivate “emptiness”; no can do.

I would probably be too “empty” to know if I reach “emptiness” or not…wait a minute… now I am beginning to sound like you…

Aaaarrrrggghhhh where’s my Carlsberg ??? Need to empty a few….

Peace my brothers.

Ps… methinks Shaolin is in good hands too….

[mantis108]

IMHO,

It is not about philosophical, it is not about cultural, it doesnt even have to follow the ancient Chinese value system where one value of 仁﹐義﹐忠﹐孝.

If we are not talking about Kung Fu, then by all means. BTW the traditional value would be 仁﹐義﹐禮﹐ 智 (there is a good reason for that). 仁 ﹐義﹐忠﹐孝 or rather the lack thereof in the production of the video in question is yet another issue.


天人合一, 心拳合一, can be done.

That's what Kung Fu as a system attempts to do.


As soon as one knows how to drop one's thought and not hold on to thoughts.
See, Thought is a limiting process. Mind is just a collection of thoughts.

My friend, I think you are way too wrapped up in "thoughts", "philosophy" being on thing and then the body or whatever there is "out there" is something else. Frankly, that's dualistic already. You seem to approach the discussion with western philiosophical perspection. I believe that's exactly what you trying to tell me and/or the readers to avoid doing. 天人合一, 心拳合一 begins with mind-body continuum and space-time continuum being one/holistic and organic.

If you are a fan of Ch'an, you would remember the 2 monks carrying a woman across the creek story right? I have left the woman off my back once the we crossed the river. So why are we talking about her?


and if one is identify with a style, a race, a religion, a method to do thing, that has fallen into Limitation. Thus, there is no way one attain 天人合一, 心拳合一.

First we see a mountain as a mountain. We then see the mountain isn't really a moutain. Guess what? Ultimately we can see that a mountain is still a mountain and we call it what it is. Could you imagine that you are devoted to this process as long as you are breathing. Could you hear the joy of devotion from the deepest spot of your heart, my friend? Could you feel that powerful drum beat of creative energy in you hands? The same form or the same drill that I do is never the same although it seem the same to others. Now who is limited? The player, the observer or the commentator?


with this type of depression thoughts--> 當年禮義之邦﹐天朝大國﹔今日小人當道, 風光不在. ONe forsure cannot enter into 天人合一.

It's an honest observation of the current state of a people. It's depressing if we can't do something about it. But I am doing what I can (ie teaching Kung Fu). The rest is not my worries.


心性之學﹐is not about 內聖外王之"術". but about 絕學無憂. No thoughts.

If you understand this 謂金無自性﹐ 隨工巧匠緣﹐遂有獅子相起﹐ 獅子不有﹐ 金體不無 ...

內聖外王之 ("they" are but one) "術" especially "shu" would not have bothered you. BTW, you are seriously hung up on this 心性之學 as Ch'an Buddhism is the only way "out". It is not. Ch'an is but one useful expedient as Scott Brown (a forum member here) would have told you.

真空妙有, 不住空有, only to 借假修真


then,
陰陽﹐剛柔﹐虛實 is not about thoughts but once one return to no thought state, The Nature will reveal itself.
Thus, it said 天下神器，不可為也。為者敗之，執者失之, .

Now this is an interesting "thought".

You know the irony of this quote 天下神器，不可為也。為者敗之，執者失之 is that 天下神器 is directly related to 陰陽﹐剛柔﹐虛實; but frankly I believe you missed that connection or reasoning again because of your hangups on "thoughts" and "no thoughts". You do realize that we are still taking holistic and organic nature of things right? Some really Kung Fu can be learn if this hangup is sorted out IMHO.

BTW, thoughts don't have to be coherent but reasoning must have coherent thoughts IMHO. So .... if you through away, reason then what? If time unravels, would the laws of physics apply. If that's chaos, where's the primodial soup? Is it possible that chaos really isn't chaos but a fragment of our imagination?


The path to 天人合一, 心拳合一. is
為無為，事無事，味無味。大小多少，報怨以德。圖難于其易﹔為大于其細。天下難事，必作于易﹔天下大事，必 作于細。是以聖人終不為大，故能成其大。夫輕諾必寡信，多易必多難。是以聖人猶難之，故終無難 矣。

You know once upon a time I thought it's that simple. I believe you might want to contemplate on this 是以聖人猶難之，故終無難矣。


otherwise, one couldnt even attain the first milestone of Qigong training ---> silence or quieting the mind and using the Yee.

HOw then one can attain collecting the Yee to union with the Shen?

not to mention how can one attain union the Shen and Zhen Qi in Dan Tien to cultivate the goldern pill and using Yee to lead Qi.

Have you notice some thing is "missing" when I put this 仁﹐義﹐禮﹐ 智. Do you understand what this 分土王四季 means?


Without a proper direction with clear processs and steps instead of thinking. One has no chance at all.

Well, that has been my position all along. So I don't know if your "no thoughts" statement agrees with my position or otherwise with this. If you are of "no thoughts" then why create "clear process and steps" for guidence? Why not just sit down and not thinking about it? It seems that you are contradicting yourself here.


it is beyond religion or race, from east or west..... all sages from east and west knows.

Different routes same destination.


The prayer, The Let Go Let God, the Listern to silence, the .... all are pointing to the same direction ---->為無為，事無事，味無味。there one enter into 天人合一, 心拳合一

Well, you are entitled to go your own way. If that floats your boat why not? So...

Okay lunch next .... :)

Warm regards

Mantis108

[fiercest tiger]

Hi Mantis 108

I hope im not leading the thread off track but just something concerning the white ape system or ape type system.

Does apes have any sigificance in chineses mythology or in general like dragons, cranes does in chinese astrology etc?

regards

Garry

[Hendrik]

Mantis,

Thank you and appreciate for your critics.


I am seriously love to know about the 天人合一, 心拳合一 of Chinese Martial art.

Could you please share your view on the process on how to attain 天人合一, 心拳合一. and how does the attitude of 仁﹐義﹐忠﹐孝 relate to 天人合一, 心拳合一?


Thanks in advance.

peace
Hendrik

[Hendrik]

The Zen part, the “deep” tough part – your job brother.

Me, I am born empty – a regular dumbo…

You want me to cultivate “emptiness”; no can do.

I would probably be too “empty” to know if I reach “emptiness” or not…wait a minute… now I am beginning to sound like you…

Aaaarrrrggghhhh where’s my Carlsberg ??? Need to empty a few….

Peace my brothers.

Ps… methinks Shaolin is in good hands too….


Hahaha Brother,

Thank you.

The following is a good Zen song to celebrate our Shao Lin art.



WHO IS WITHOUT THOUGHT? WHO IS WITHOUT BIRTH?

IF THERE IS REALLY NO PRODUCTION, THERE IS NOTHING

NOT PRODUCED. SUMMON A WODDEN STATUE AND INQUIRE

OF IT. APPLY YOURSELF TO SEEKING BUDDHAHOOD; SOONER

OR LATER YOU WILL ACCOMPLISH IT.



LET THE FOUR ELEMENTS GO, DO NOT GRASP AT THEM.

THE NATURE OF STILL QUIESCENCE ACCORDS WITH DRINKING AND

EATING.

ALL ACTIVITIES ARE IMPERMANENT; EVERYTHING IS EMPTY.

THAT IS THE GREAT AND PERFECT ENLIGHTENMENT OF THE THUS

COME ONE.


http://online.sfsu.edu/~rone/Buddhism/VenHua/Song%20of%20Enlightenment.htm




peace

[Eric Ling]

Aha ! I knew it brother Hendrik, matter of time you turn this thread into da-da land….

Can I very humbly suggest that you folks seeking “detachment” to detach yourself here and attach yourselves to a new thread.

You see, as much as I want to reach “detachment”, I’ve grown attached to this thread knowing that it’s impermanent and all.

Brother Hendrik, do as I (very humbly) recommend or I will attach my kick to your behind.

Maybe then you will attain “Satori” , “opening of the 3rd eye” , “unite with the heavens” , “fuse kung fu and Xin” da da da…..

Seriously my friends, your topic warrants a dedicated thread. Here we talk about FIGHTING. And if I feel bad after fighting someone, maybe I’ll hop over to your thread and seek some solace or visit my therapist.

Got a TongBi clip here.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vY1Hiuz8gDU

This system is only about 150 years old according to this DVD. But somehow, I was under the impression that it’s much older. Anyone?

Like the 2-handed technique shown. We see this same technique in Baji, Luohan, Hungga, Lama, Pak Hok and even Karate’s kata like Seipai, Bassai etc…

Regards.

[fiercest tiger]

Thanks Eric,

I wasnt expecting to see that 2 handed strike used like that, when i saw the movement performed i thought it was a set up to step behind and grab the leg and throw over the body after smashing the bridge if you can understand what i wrote? lol

Thanks ive never seen tong bei before! :)

Garry

[Hendrik]

Hahahah Brothers,

We all look at things differently. I will conclude my post here with what I have in mind.


The following describe what I have in mind.


少林武术因禅武合一而博大精深，以禅入武，习武修禅，绝非自卫强身小技；退则参禅养性修道行，进则护寺报国 救众生，故少林武术又称为“武术禅”。

永信法师论武术禅　　

　　武术禅是提供一个人人可以亲自去做，最终"见性成佛"的参禅路径。什么是武术禅，无法直接用语言文字来表达，但是只要你一步一步练下去，就知道什么是武术禅了。 少林武术不仅仅是一系列的动作、套路。动作、套路，只是少林武术的外表。少林武术的核心是功夫。动作、套路 ，只是获得功夫的阶梯；如果没有动作、套路，功夫又无从学起，无从表现。少林功夫的极致是练就不动心。练就 不动心，就不再贪生怕死。不贪生怕死，并不是不热爱生命，相反更热爱生命。学会热爱生命，才是学禅的真正目 的啊!什么样的生命才值得热爱?只有没有烦恼没有痛苦的生命才值得热爱。要想达到没有烦恼没有痛苦，只有练 就不动心。武术禅就是通向不动心的一条大道。



http://www.shaolin.org.cn/html/html/wu/menu1.htm


As it was said,
The most advance Shao Lin kung fu is said to be Zen and Matial art is one or Chan Chuan Yee Ru. That is 天人合一, 心拳合一 .


少林武术不仅仅是一系列的动作、套路。动作、套路，只是少林武术的外表。少林武术的核心是功夫。动作、套路 ，只是获得功夫的阶梯；如果没有动作、套路，功夫又无从学起，无从表现。少林功夫的极致是练就 不动心。


IMHO,
we can have all the chinese martial art Clips of applications and DVD from all the styles ;however if we cant get the 不动心. Then there is no Chan Chuan Yee Ru or 天人合一, 心拳合一. Then, everything is just empty talk or mimic-ing moves which cannot be realized or activate its ultimate power. what different is that with a parrot speaking human's language?


I ask myself for decade. So what is the process to Chan Chuan Yee Ru? otherwise all the form's or sets or applications are only as good as for demonstration. I might be wrong, just my opinion.

Peace

[Shaolin Master]

As FT used to state...I am a northern practitioner (now I am practioner of emptiness :) ...) ...and to that effect mainly of Hebei arts so......

The clip shown given the use of ying shou or liemen techniques is likely of Qi jia Tongbeiquan. (Please note Tongbi, Baiyuan Tongbei are different to those of the family).

As my teacher told us Tongbeiquan in legend is old but Qi jia Tongbei is actually from Qi Xin and his son Qi Taichang which was not too long ago. It originated from Liuhequan (Hebei one not Wan Laisheng's) and combined with what we now just know as a form called Mingtangquan (practised comparatively slowly), thereafter Qi Taichang structured and formulated the system using 108 keys which is the essence of the current Qi family style.

Regards
Wu Chanlong

[fiercest tiger]

No Shaolin Master, i called you the master of all arts, as you knew alot of history and skills! :P

How long was you in china, are you going back anytime soon?

Garry

[Eric Ling]

Hi all,

Garry, know exactly what you’re describing.

Smashing incoming bridge, going into a half-kneeling or Dragon-riding stance and then rushing forward to launch the 2 handed strike (as in video clip) is a Lohan technique.

This sequence could also end in a throw by:-

• Launching the 2 handed strike at very close quarter – sort of like “parting horse’s mane” in Tai Chi.
• Or picking up opponent’s leg after smashing and then throwing him back – I think this is what you’re talking about.

If I step away from an incoming low kick and smashing that leg, spin around to do the same 2 handed strike, I now got “Dragon Waggling Tail” and “Lohan Drying Corpse” from Hungga.

Baji folks do it almost like TongBi.

Hendrik brother, please don’t “conclude”. I only meant for you to start a new thread to continue your thing. I think it’s too vital to be mixed up here that’s all.

I take it back; I won’t kick your behind.

To me, techniques are the external forms, chi/li manipulation is the engine and “fists/Zen as one” is the Soul of Shaolin.

You are doing good with your messages…really.

Shaolin Master, thanks for that explanation. Materials on TongBi are only beginning to appear in the market. I got a very old book, published in Taiwan, but I find following it difficult – written in old-style Mandarin.

I always thought Wan is ZiRanMen. I’ve seen some of his works labeled as LiuHe but I thought this is a subset of his ZiRanMen…..

Thanks for your sharing.

Regards.

[Eric Ling]

Talking about Tongbi….

How many of you caught that movie starring Donnie Yen as a cop and Samo Hung as a mob leader released a while back?

There is this baddie in the movie fighting Donnie Yen with daggers and he was swinging his arms like they do in TongBi.

Is that TongBi?

Pretty sleek moves in that movie and after “Fearless” and “Dragon Tiger Gate”, this must be my favorite…

Talking about movies, I’ll be catching “The Devil Wears Prada” later with wife..lalalala

[Shaolin Master]

Actually, Tongbi was practiced and propagated by Lu Erye (must have been son of some rich guy :) ) from Qinghai county, Hebei. It used to be called Taizuquan (However, it bears no resemblance or relationship to the more common Taizumen (i.e. Taizu Changquan...of Hebei).

Nowadays, it is more commonly referred to as 'Cangzhou Tongbiquan' and it was practiced by the famous Ma Family (Ma Yingtu/Ma fengtu) (马氏通备) and of course the Pigua master Guo Changsheng (通臂). During the Zhongyang Guoshu Guan the style was propagated. Guo's descendants refer to the style as '24 Postures of Tongbiquan'.

From the outside to the common observer Tongbei, Tongbi, and Pigua seem similar but the mechanics and approach do have differences from within.

Although in recent times a lot of mixing and the like have caused some intemingling so the styles may have been interchanged. Many intermixed methods have also arisen.

Wan Laisheng is both Liuhequan (from Liu dekuan lineage) and Ziranmen.

FT,
Just a couple of years, I go back every 6 months or so. Mainly to visit family.


Regards
Wu Chanlong

[Eric Ling]

Thanks Shaolin Master.

Now from "long hands" to "short hands" - Wing Chun.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCA0zbH2IMw

Remember posting some video grabs from this VCD and namng the teacher as "Micky Wong" in another forum. Someone responded and said I was wrong. Not "Micky Wong".

Anyone?

Regards.

[mantis108]

Aha ! I knew it brother Hendrik, matter of time you turn this thread into da-da land….

Can I very humbly suggest that you folks seeking “detachment” to detach yourself here and attach yourselves to a new thread.

You see, as much as I want to reach “detachment”, I’ve grown attached to this thread knowing that it’s impermanent and all.

Brother Hendrik, do as I (very humbly) recommend or I will attach my kick to your behind.

Maybe then you will attain “Satori” , “opening of the 3rd eye” , “unite with the heavens” , “fuse kung fu and Xin” da da da…..

Seriously my friends, your topic warrants a dedicated thread. Here we talk about FIGHTING. And if I feel bad after fighting someone, maybe I’ll hop over to your thread and seek some solace or visit my therapist.

Thank you for the reminder about the direction of the thread. I am sorry that it might have gone off topic with Hendrik's input. Like him, I will sum up my views by the following:

人法地﹐地法天﹐ 天法道﹐道法自然。

易曰-立天之道曰陰陽﹐立地之道曰剛柔﹐立人之道曰仁義

仁義法剛柔﹐剛柔者﹐水火操作之道也 (Eric, this is within White Crane's theory I believe.)

So you see essentially Kung Fu is highly progressive in nature. It's mystical in nature but nothing mysterious about it or there's a need to detach from reality. There is no blank out in between the starting point to the destination. Internal and external (if there is such a distinction) are but one. Application or fighting for that matter without undering of this is just "moving the hands and moving the legs". There's naturally brawling and there is brawling according to nature (fighting). ;)

BTW, Hendrik, 不動心不如平常心. More practice, more experience, more relax and more fluid (be like water, my friend.)

With that I should give that a rest and return to our normal programing. :D


Got a TongBi clip here.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vY1Hiuz8gDU

This system is only about 150 years old according to this DVD. But somehow, I was under the impression that it’s much older. Anyone?

Like the 2-handed technique shown. We see this same technique in Baji, Luohan, Hungga, Lama, Pak Hok and even Karate’s kata like Seipai, Bassai etc…

Regards.

Thanks for the clip, the apps would have been a head grab and/or throw IMHO. But to each his own. :)

I shall reply to Fiercest Tiger's post later. :)

Warm regards

Robert

[pakhok]

Hi everyone,

Today my friend married his doghter and one good suggestion was given to her when ppl speaks on microfon etc etc. Advise was: "From today you threat your husband like a dog, give him to eat, give him to drink and let him out to finish his other needs and you will have happy life :D ".

But I must continue with serial :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NG-ud69h6lI

I am not competent but as much I know White Ape is included in Pak Hok, I suppose Lama Pai too, with leg strenghtening and exercising, point is: Ape and Crane are integrated in Pak Hok Pai.

This is my opinion - about horse stance is not comming from riding horse I think it is comming from ape positioning of legs, always in half "stance" position and thats why they have so strong legs :) Apes are all life in horse stance position :D
If I ride a horse and step down to earth for me is enough pain in legs not to stay further in that position, better to sit or lay down or strait up legs.

Like many other insipirations for different styles from animals I think that horse stance is inspired from Ape's continuos legs position.
Just my thinking nothing important :confused:

Better for me to sleep until this chivas leave my blood lol

regards

[pakhok]

me again,

Nice clip with pole form
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk3CrenwS74

and Jow Ga - Tit Jin form http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhLDCXUtDhs


regards

[Eric Ling]

Hi Milan,


What ??? Tons of Chivas in Potula Tibet ???:eek: :eek: :eek:

The Dalai Lama knows about this ???…hahahaha…:D :D :D

But seriously and if it’s not too rude to ask, you listed “pak hok” as your style.
Is this “Lama Pak Hok”, the style with “Luk Lek”, “Kam Kong”, LorHon” and “Needles hidden in Cotton” etc... Which line are you from?

If I got the right “Pak Hok”, did you learn the “Sil Ng Yeng” and “Dai Ng Yeng” forms – got any clips of these?

Actually some folks might not know this; it is totally customary to ask, during initial meetings, style, teacher and family.

When I first arrived in Kuching Sarawak and went around visiting Kung Fu Masters and schools here, I was asked these exact same questions everywhere….

So Milan, if you are not too drunk....I like to know you better now that I know you got tons of Chivas...hahaha :cool: :cool: :cool:

Regards.

[Eric Ling]

Hi all,

This is another style that I love – Baji Quan.

Got a clip here showing some applications from their “Small Frame First Road” form.

Beautiful form and some nice suggested applications.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OdUOWSkZmk

I’ve been following the works of this featured Moslem Sifu for a while now. Even picked up some books he published in Japan; he taught there some years ago.

So you see, Shaolin Master, I never assert there are no good quality traditional Masters on mainland. This is one fine example.

Would love to meet and learn from him really.

Question; how do you understand all that heavily accented Northern mandarin?

[fiercest tiger]

Eric,

I definetly see those moves you discribed as well! :)

Mantis 108

Thanks mate, ill wait till you are ready....

great thread guys, appreciate your sharing....would love to see the Pak Hok forms that resembles lama arts.


Garry

[Shaolin Master]

Eric,

That clip was of Wu Lianzhi, well known master of Bajiquan in Mengcun (south of Cangzhou, Hebei).

There is a nice interview from tv below:
http://www.wsbjq.com/ShowArticle.asp?ArticleID=56

Additionally many clips on his website in the section below:
http://www.wsbjq.com/ShowClass.asp?ClassID=16&SpecialID=0&page=1

Enjoy.

Regards
Wu Chanlong

[Eric Ling]

Hi all,

Got the full “Small Frame 1st Road” form here.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zlkarv7sQy8

Also a close-up of the first section and a sampling of the Mandarin spoken by Sifu Wu…

Shaolin Master, Singaporeans basically speak either Hockien English or Hockien Mandarin – already mutated, doesn’t count hahaha..

Regards.

ps.. I read your message before you "sanitized" it.. yes, I might be in Canton and Fuzhou first quarter of 2007.

Are you going to be there still ?

[Eric Ling]

Hi Milan,

No you did not disappoint me – every sincere seeker is important in my book.

I apologize if I appeared impolite.

I see it this way; if I want to keep our interactions casual, I would not have asked. We say “meeting in normal waters” in Chinese.

But because we are thinking of working with you, I need to be a bit more inquisitive.

I really must apologize for not reading your mails thoroughly – sorry my friend.

I’ll buy the Carlsbergs if we ever meet……:D :D :D

Regards.

Eric

[TenTigers]

Eric, Bak Hok, when you go to that link, check out the two of Lo Wai Keung, Lama Pai Sifu. The guy can move, and he's gotta be in his sixties or older in these clips.

[pakhok]

Hi Eric,

No need for apologize and of course that you can ask me any question you think it can be interesting for you, I will be glad to answere you.

About mails you answered me and that's answere how I come here in this forums, following you and your mails :D .
I repeat it will be honour to me if you count me to include in your further work by any part of it. My domestic language is so far from English maybe like Chinese too :D

I told you that you are like my lucky star and this is prof what I find today here on youtube and followed very nice website in Australia about Lama Pai

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlbkL488TPc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raewRUJUMAU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGozOVw08og
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KV4AoU914Ck
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKiK3ZAcA00

and there is described what is what in every clip and this is their site
http://www.lama-martialart.com/en/main/index.htm

I will be extra happy if I got opportunity to kill few box of Carlsberg with you :)

with best regards,
Milan

[Yum Cha]

Hello Gentlemen,
If I could get you to help me to better understand some of the issues relating to the genesis of these arts I would be very thankful.

You spoke earlier, and Eric posted some interesting clips, of "southern white crane" including all the examples of San Chen.

Now we are looking at Lama Style, with its relationship to Lions Roar, Pak Hok, etc.

In Sydney, in the 80's, I came to know a Pak Hok Master Chan Hak Fu and more so, his estranged son, whom I doubt I will ever meet the likes of which again. He was a student of many arts, but favoured Baqua.

How do the Lama style, Pak Hok and similar branches of white crane (which seem to me to be "long arm") relate to the earlier discussed "southern white crane" which shared so much with the Pak Mei, Southern Preying Mantis and that "short arm" style of Kung Fu?

Is the relationship in name only, or is there more?

Cheers

[Eric Ling]

Hi all,

Ten, you’re right, Master Lo can really move and that age, makes the adage “older gingers are hotter” comes true. Thanks for pointing out the clips.

I’ve got many of Master Lo published works and magazines interviews in my collection. This will be uploaded to my new site soon.

This reminds me, the reason it’s taking longer than expected is because we are redesigning layout and features etc.

I am attaching pic of the new entrance page…

Yum Cha, at first glance of histories, principles, forms and techniques, I would say little or no connection between Lama Pak Hok and Fukien White Crane.

I think to fully examine, we got to spread out both systems and examines the criterions mentioned.

No easy task my friend…maybe you should initiate a new thread to do this.

I will chip in whatever I know regarding Fukien White Crane.

Regards.

[Yum Cha]

Eric,
Thanks for your prompt reply, and your answer was sufficient for me to put my question to rest.

Cheers

[Eric Ling]

Hi Robert,

More in your neighborhood type Praying Mantis? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YevHxhpBVIA

You do the same featured version of “Ben Bu” in the clip?

This Sifu also mentioned “Yue Hai” as a TJMHTL practitioner; I didn’t know that….

Regards.

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Something different here, a relatively new, modernized hybrid from mainland named “Jing Quan Dao”.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7tBsi5vSTU

Mainland’s presentation of a MMA maybe?

Regards.

[Eric Ling]

Hi all,

Another Northern style CKF that making it’s presence felt these days.

“Chuo Jia Fanzi” with the signature back-lifting and “poking” kicks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5n63TtUt-gY

Regards.

[Shaolin Master]

Having practised Hebei Gaoyang Chuojiao for quite some time.(main style...)... I have never really taken to the Beijing Chuojiaofanzi approach. In Gaoyang and Raoyang the methods are a little more practical.

Please note the below some refer to Gu Zhizi but actually they are equivocal to any of the Baoding district (Gaoyang, Lixian and Raoyang)... enjoy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMxTKAnMZ4A

Kind Regards
Wu Chanlong

[mantis108]

Hi Robert,

More in your neighborhood type Praying Mantis? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YevHxhpBVIA

You do the same featured version of “Ben Bu” in the clip?

This Sifu also mentioned “Yue Hai” as a TJMHTL practitioner; I didn’t know that….

Regards.

I have seen this VCD before. The older gentelman's form and interpretation is more along the line of traditional mantis. The other 2 men ... well. :(

My version of Bengbu is similar. This version that they do is more along the line with 7 Star. BTW, they also got the name of the for Meihwalu (Plum Flower Road) wrong. It's not a deer.

There are some applicaitons in the VCD (I think) but they are really (pardon the language) CRAPOLA.

Yue Hai supposedly had some traditional Tanglang training from Qingdao area. But from what I have seen of him, there's really not much of that left unless he's been hiding them.

Anyhoo, thanks for posting the clip. :)

Warm regards

Robert

[Eric Ling]

Hi all,

Shaolin Master, I actually did like the “applications” portion of my “Chuo Jiao” VCD. The Sifu, imo, did a pretty decent job in explaining concepts and principles.

Sorry I spelled the name wrongly, should be “Jiao” (legs/kicks) and not “Jia” (family).

Robert, this PM DVD is all “applications” after that short forms intro.

All quite “textbook” presentations really. But in the forms, I kinda like that leaping knee technique – reminds me of “monkey climbing tree (branch)” in Hsing Yi.

And talking about “Crapola” wait until you see my next clip – “Crapola” at its most, I tell you….

Regards,

[taaigihk]

Hi,

thanks for posting chuojiaofanzi clip. I practice the Beijing variation :)
It may seem a bit more complex than Guzhizi, or Lixian variation, but it is not less practical.
In fact, the chuojiao portion of Beijing chuojiaofanzi (Wu Binlou - Hong Zhitian line) looks much more simple than those of Suning or Lixian. Anyways I like all of them. Ge you ge lianfa ;)

Here's a shuangshoudai clip:

http://www.shaobei.cn/video/download.asp?id=125&url=http://hld8818.vicp.net/video/download/shuang.rmvb

[Shaolin Master]

Taaigihk, nice to meet a fellow practitioner.

To commence with, Chuojiao being my most favored maritial art (or at least very high on the list), I also love all the variations. Hong Zhitian without doubt is very good and practical. Having not seen the remainder of that vcd (only the clip posted) it would be difficult to judge the quality of applications presented.

I studied with Sun Changli (a disciple of Wu Binlou) for a while also (mainly the Yanqing Fan and some weapons) as I did not have them previously.

The Chuojiao portion of Chuojiaofanzi when compared to Wu Tangzi, is simpler in terms of diversity of movements not necessarily in execution of action.

Also agree that everyone has their own practise methods. As commonly said in this thread Wulin One Family.

Regards
Wu Chanlong

[taaigihk]

Hi Shaolin Master,


nice to meet you too. :)



I studied with Sun Changwen (a disciple of Wu Binlou) for a while also (mainly the Yanqing Fan and some weapons) as I did not have them previously.

Thanks for the information. I'm a student of Marek Klajda, Hong Zhitian's disciple.
Also had the chance to meet Hong Zhitian personally and learn from him a bit.



The Chuojiao portion of Chuojiaofanzi when compared to Wu Tangzi, is simpler in terms of diversity of movements not necessarily in execution of action.

Fully agree. There's a lot of other things in there, not only the exterior.

Again, glad that could talk to someone that also trains chuojiao. :)

[Eric Ling]

Wow,

“Chuo Jiao” in Poland, must be going places..

You’re so right; ge jia ge fa.

And every temple got its own Buddha.

Now from the Republic Of Crapola, presenting;-

“Toad” Kung Fu. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkf04dnaLvE

A friend brought this & thought I would get a good laugh out of watching it and he’s right.

Regards.

Ps Shaolin Master, I will post a couple of Chuo Jiao applications from the DVD later...

[taaigihk]

Here's a clip of Dongbei chuojiao. Wentangzi 32 shi form:

http://gaoji.neostrada.pl/chuo-jiao-32.mpeg

..and spear:

http://gaoji.neostrada.pl/qiang.mpeg

[Shaolin Master]

Taaigihk,

Do you read the Polish 'Budojo' magazine? One of my Polish students had an article featured earlier this year about 'Dishuquan'. The article was <<Styl "Psa" z prowincji Fujian>>. The Polish Martial Arts community is very dedicated .... from Capoeira to Cai Li Fo and mantis....they are all well represented :)

Thanks for the clips....

Here is the Dongbei Chuojiao Wentangzi - 24 as well (to accompany your 32 and spear):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-V68OEzIW28

My students are working on developing a website including discussion forum with a dedicated Chuojiao section, hopefully we will discuss some of the finer points of Chuojiao, hope to have your participation.

Eric,

The Toad, funny it is .... reminds of that old Li Lianjie Shaolin Temple film in the early 80's......

Kind Regards
Wu Chanlong

[taaigihk]

Taaigihk,

Do you read the Polish 'Budojo' magazine?

Very rarely. It's quite expensive :)



One of my Polish students had an article featured earlier this year about 'Dishuquan'. The article was <<Styl "Psa" z prowincji Fujian>>.

Really? I didn't read the budojo article, but remember Slawomir Pawlowski writing something about Fujian Dog style in other magzines. Could he be your student?



The Polish Martial Arts community is very dedicated .... from Capoeira to Cai Li Fo and mantis....they are all well represented :)

Thanks. Among them some good tcma schools. ;)




Here is the Dongbei Chuojiao Wentangzi - 24 as well (to accompany your 32 and spear):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-V68OEzIW28

Thanks for posting that. I've lost it some time ago.


My students are working on developing a website including discussion forum with a dedicated Chuojiao section, hopefully we will discuss some of the finer points of Chuojiao, hope to have your participation.

Sure, I'd be glad to participate :) How many people study chuojiao from you?

[mantis108]

Wow,

“Chuo Jiao” in Poland, must be going places..

You’re so right; ge jia ge fa.

And every temple got its own Buddha.

Now from the Republic Of Crapola, presenting;-

“Toad” Kung Fu. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkf04dnaLvE

A friend brought this & thought I would get a good laugh out of watching it and he’s right.

Regards.

Ps Shaolin Master, I will post a couple of Chuo Jiao applications from the DVD later...


Well... there's nothing inheritly wrong with the form per se. Most of the moves in the form are ligitimate "basic" ground movements (can have actual ground fighting applications) and should be trained as part of the Kung Fu basic training for agility and flexibility IMHO. The only thing that is really laughable is they tried to pass the form off as something that's serious. BTW, most of the moves in the form we train as well since the rolling and break falling skills are quintessential for takedowns and throws.

I also look forward to the Chuo jiao applications. Thanks

Warm regards

Robert

[pakhok]

Hi all,

I am back if you accept me :) with few applications clips from different styles :D

Hung Gar - Lau Gar apps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvI_l4mVSvw

Black Tiger
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cbbTVQ6ZDE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJJ2f6fgKak
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhm13Ce-jkk


Gun Shu - Pole set
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUC9LUT4vvQ

I Lu applications
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jb604QfLbeY

and of course with Pak Hok apps used on tournament by 17 yrs old Mario on his first tournament and his beggining at Pak Hok learning and training
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGGkFqg_cpc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twTlTc5OHuo

and Mantis applications
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUJT20j_Q_U


with regards to all,
Milan

[Eric Ling]

Hi everyone,

I was trying to cut the “kick applications” portion of the VCD and discovered, to my horrors, that the disc is scratched – aaaaarrrrrrgggggghhhhhhh.

So I am posting a “throw” technique first. I will be in Singapore this weekend and I’ll pick up another copy of this same VCD. I got a bunch of other titles in my apartment there; MiZhong, 3 Royal Cannon Fists, Piqua, LiuHe TangLang and more Chuo Jiao weapons/forms etc etc.. Will be posting from these when I get back middle of next week.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaBPj5ADaNg

Shaolin Master, this particular throw technique should be recognizable; after “Yi Ki Muay” and “Har San Hor”, we did a 2 men routine in Nanyang Shiao Lim that include this throw a few times. Cannot remember this form properly though; it’s been so long and I have never taught it to any of my students here or in the US.

Robert, I still think we are in crapland with the “toad”.

Besides the overall no “quantao” , the only redeeming portion, is maybe some of the “changquan” movements you see interspersed in the form.

Even then, these are poorly executed.

I understand where you’re coming from with the “breakfall” aspects of the form. You are right, basic calisthenics for most CKF folks; you see much of these in Jin Wu for instance. When they do the “Big Flag” routine.

As a “fighting” form, I think it is missing the mark.

As entertainment, I think it is passing with flying, or should I say leaping, colors.

Milan, can you quit with the “not wanted” attitude before I throw some empty Carlsberg cans at you…..:D :D :D

Regards.

[Gru Bianca]

Hi Eric,

please check your PM.

Regards

[taaigihk]

So I am posting a “throw” technique first.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaBPj5ADaNg



Thanks.
Meanwhile I thought it'd be good to post something of our own for a change. Not applications, but you might find it interesting. You can take a look at few aspects of chuojiaofanzi kicking, as explained by Marek (our teacher). :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QEossUHpwc

[Eric Ling]

Hi all,

taaigihk, you're welcomed.

Got a Fanzi clip here from "This is Kung Fu" VCD. I thinked this is posted elsewhere but since we mentioned Fanzi a couple of times...

Should have more Fanzi after my Singapore trip.

Gru, see you.

Regards.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xRPAYKaF84

[pakhok]

Hi there,

Eric, ok I accept your advice but pls accept mine, don't throw empty cans Carlsberg , pls let it be full its better for conditioning and hardening body :D

Gru regards, we have little bit communication about Italian Pak Hok sifu few years ago :)


regards to all,
Milan

[mantis108]

I hear you on the "Toad" style. :)

Anyway, here's a clip of a Mainland Meihua Tanglang that's close to our line. Their GM Wang Guo Dian, of this line is the Kung Fu brother of our GM Chiu Chuk Kai. So this is like our direct cousin style.

Mainland Meihua Tanglang (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtwHgUzke-w&mode=related&search=)

Also here's a clip of me and my student practicing a 2 men drill called Pai An (slap press)

Pai An (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGom3Z7dPdY)

Just to give you an idea on what we work with. ;)

Hope you enjoy. :)

Warm regards

Robert

[pakhok]

Hi all,

Pls can anyone tell me what is this form?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ryqe4L-TiFo

Thanks
Milan

[mantis108]

Hi all,

Pls can anyone tell me what is this form?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ryqe4L-TiFo

Thanks
Milan

This is a version of Shi Ba Luohan Gong (18 Arhat). This version is quick close to the Northern Praying Mantis' form by the same name. It is recorded in a manuscript called Luohan Xing Gong Duan Da (also know as Shaolin Zhen Chuan - Shaolin Authentic). The gentelman's name is Wu Mu Chuan from Taiwan I think. I believe his style is called Ziren Men and has no connection with NPM.

Mantis108

[pakhok]

Thanks Mantis108 , that's what I call answere :)


regards

[Flying-Monkey]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KL108-I-vlA&mode=related&search=

I don't know if anyone post this video before, but it is pretty tight. It makes me proud of kung fu.

[pakhok]

Hi ,


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWbGd_LXUfQ

and good bye :)

[pakhok]

Hi all,

Here is one new app directly from tournament with traditional Pak Hok technique
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lOguT2wVIE

:D

regards,
Milan

[jik po]

Hi Eric:

Very good information.

Please, I am a Pak Mei pratitioner and I would like to see Pak Mei video or any information to relate to Pak Mei if it is possible.

Thank you very much in advance.:)

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Back from Singapore – a short business trip really.

Still, managed to meet up with “Gru Bianca” or Luca at a McDonald joint in the western part of Singapore.

An hour of kung fu talk with someone I am meeting for the first time – well there’s life outside the internet after all….

Robert, watched the 2 clips you posted – really nice. Thanks for sharing them.

As mentioned before I left for Singapore, I came back with more books/magazines and videos.

Posting a Chuo Jiao clip for a start…will be posting more in the days to come.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ze4W9SpPj-M

Now if only I understand how to incorporate background music, I could have “Led Zeppelin” blasting in the back like the one you got in your clip Robert.

Milan, thanks for the clips you sent.

And oh yes, jik po, I got a bunch of old articles and a couple of old Pak Mei clips some place - will post when I find them.


Regards.

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Another Chuo Jiao clip here..


I tell you, this Sifu is so fast during some portion of the form that I think we should have Deep Purple’s “Storm bringer” playing in the background.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAlqRE-sXRA

I am sure his hands are moving just as fast, if not faster, than Ritchie Blackmore’s fingers on the fret board….

Ah hah, all this is reminding me that Eric Clapton is headed down Singapore’s way soon. Got to find out exact dates – not going to miss “slow hands” live……

Luca, are you reading this ???:cool: :cool: :cool:

Regards.

[taaigihk]

Hi everybody,

Another Chuo Jiao clip here..


I tell you, this Sifu is so fast during some portion of the form that I think we should have Deep Purple’s “Storm bringer” playing in the background.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAlqRE-sXRA



Cool clips! Thanks.
Especially the second one. Fast hands, but nice shenfa too. :)

[Gru Bianca]

Hi Eric,

...yes I'm reading it :) , was very nice to have that chat, time went by too fast.

You know how to find me,... let me know when you'll be back. :)

Regards,

Luca

[pakhok]

Hi all,

Hi Eric welcome back, must tell you that the thread slept without you last week :)

Now we can go further with videos bombing arround :D


regards
Milan

[Shaolin Master]

Hi Eric,

Thanks for the additional chuojiao clips, always nice to see. What event were they from?

Cheers,
Wu Chanlong

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Luca, I am planning on another trip to Singapore to catch Clapton’s concert and shoot some Masters I spoke to during this recent trip. Bought a JVC 30 GB hard-drive digital camera that shoots up to 7 hours DVD standard format; so guess what I will be busy doing the next few days lalalala….

And I might just be able to make the Philippine trip after all – can you PM your email address to me.

Milan, Milan, first I hear Chivas and now I hear bombs… this is a very dangerous combo; a drunk throwing bombs – tsk tsk tsk…:p :p :p

Shaolin Master, those clips came from a compilation that a friend sent from Fuzhou. Good stuff; lots of old Masters doing styles that I only read about like 5 Tigers, Flower fists, Black Tiger, Mei Hua Chuan etc etc..

The Chuo Jiao bit is taken off some kind of gathering that features also Fanzi, Hsing I, Baji etc etc…

And talking about Baji, got another clip here showing a relatively young practitioner doing a Baji form.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GsjeystO5c

Simply love the way they exert energy into their techniques – the little stomping action that precedes their fajin.

Reminds me of my ZhongHe.

Regards.

[pakhok]

Hi all,

I see we are all present :)

Eric, does it mean we are Founders of new style? "Drunk bomber" style :p :D :p


regards
Bomber Founder :)

[Eric Ling]

Hi Shaolin Master,

Can you confirm this clip for me; is it Fanzi or TongBi (TongBei) ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGxSLmTu6rA

What is her phone numbers hehehe…..:p :p :p ? Strictly for CKF exchanges only you understand.:cool: :cool: :cool:

Somewhere in the middle of the form, she runs jumps, turns in mid air and throws 2 punches.

Have you seen ShiaoLim’s Monkey? There is an almost exact technique in one of the monkey forms...

Ooohready, Milan you are now the "Grand Master" of "Drunk Bomber" Kung Fu. Make sure you do up a website quickly and start writing your story. If you need Chinese characters, I'll be happy to assist, for a few cartons of Chivas of course hahaha.:D :D :D

Regards.

[Shaolin Master]

That was modern wushu - Tongbeiquan, her number is 86 13689844647 although she may have changed it since then ;)

Although I do not practise Saolim monkey nowadays ...I do recall my teacher practising it and there is some similar turning leap strike movements, but to me they were fairly different.....then again it has been a while since ....

Cheers,
Wu Chanlong

[Eric Ling]

Aaaaaarrrrrgggggggghhhhhhh…..modern Wushu ???:eek:

But looking at the way she moves, I forgive her.:D

After all, someone got to show her the good old-fashioned ways; dialing her numbers now hehehe….:p

Regards.

[Eric Ling]

Ahem, back to serious Kung Fu discussion…

A style that I’ve been involved for many years now – Southern TaiZhu or Tai Chor as spoken in Fukienese.

I know this topic has been discussed to death; at least in the other forums that I dabble in.

Is Northern TaiZhu Chang Quan related to Southern TaiZhu Quan at all ?

The history given by my TaiZhu Sifu, points to Song TaiZhu Chao Kuang Yin as the originator. In fact, a portrait of Song Tai Zhu sits on our altar table.

Then of course, you would hear arguments like why are the 2 systems so unlike in appearance etc etc..

Got a clip here of Northern Tai Zhu and without going any deeper, I would say I am looking at the Tai Zhu Lohan form that we do in our system.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plFn3-EFGJI

Same postures, techniques and executions albeit done with a different “flavor”. We do forms in a more “rooted” Southern manner.

Regards.

[Gru Bianca]

Hey Eric,

Just sent you a PM.

Regards

[pakhok]

Hi there,

Eric I am not sure for Grand Master, but Experienced student for sure :P
If you think I have problem with Chinese language, simplified or traditional, you can post here one sentence and I will give you up to 15 different languages translate right now lol :D but not about Chivas please LOL I will make mistake for sure in that case :) . I like good vines and good wifes not whiskey LOL

Now I have serious question - any comment about book 'Five Secret Tibetan Rejuvenation Rites' or ' 五个秘密西藏回复礼拜式' ?

with regards,

炸弹人
轟炸機人 :D

[mantis108]

Glad to hear that you have a fruitful trip. :) Also, I am glad that you enjoy the clips the I posted. I agreed that a good music background makes a different in a video clip.


Ahem, back to serious Kung Fu discussion…

A style that I’ve been involved for many years now – Southern TaiZhu or Tai Chor as spoken in Fukienese.

I know this topic has been discussed to death; at least in the other forums that I dabble in.

Is Northern TaiZhu Chang Quan related to Southern TaiZhu Quan at all ?

1) First and foremost, I am of the opinion that Chinese martial arts as an entity changes its name through out the ages. Tongbi, Changquan, Duanda, Fanzi, etc used to be designation for hand to hand combat skill in different regions before Ming and Qing dynasty IMHO. It's like the northern would call stances as Zhan Zhuang and in the southern we call it Jaag Ma. Now, traditionalist outside of China would call CMA Guo Shu (national arts) and the modern day mainland folks would call it Wushu (martial arts). Ming dynasty is a very important era to Kung Fu IMHO. Much of the customs and traditions are formed because of the policy back then. All the division of systems and styles began then mostly.

2) The northern Taizu Changquan is more than likely related and could even be derived directly from Tongbi (as a synonym of H2H combat). There is a theory that Song Taizu hand picked his personal guards from the Szechuan contingent which made up of troops apted at Tongbi/H2H combat skill. This is quite logical given the policy and the political climate surrounding his reign. Tongbi and Changquan were interchangeable terms. Taizu is a posthumous title. So to comemorate a skill that was bestowed the honor by Taizu thus calling it Taizu Changquan is reasonable.


The history given by my TaiZhu Sifu, points to Song TaiZhu Chao Kuang Yin as the originator. In fact, a portrait of Song Tai Zhu sits on our altar table.

Descendants of Song and even Ming dynasty imperial courts could have hidden in the South. Loyalists to these courts are still in existen. BTW, my sister told me that she recently met a cousin of the last Qing Emperor, Puyi, in Vancouver, BC of all places, so...


Then of course, you would hear arguments like why are the 2 systems so unlike in appearance etc etc..

Well, if you can have a fake Meihwa Tanglang in Henan Shaolin temple and a real Meihwa Tanglang in Shandong today. How is it not possible that 2 systems (not saying that either of them is fake) of the same name got developed over time? Remember, we Chinese are amongst the most "adaptable" and "resourceful" creature ever exists on this planet. :D

Doors and Gates are just politics. They meant little in the pursuit of the truth in pugilism IMHO. In fact, they kept a lot of talented people away. This is why we see more and more TCMA "styles" vanishing. TCMA in general hasn't grown due to the "inbreeding" if you ask me. If only we can open up and met the challenges (MMA, NHB, BJJ, Judo, wrestling, Muay Thai, etc..) head on, we don't have to resort to San Shou (the sport) to represent CMA in general.


Got a clip here of Northern Tai Zhu and without going any deeper, I would say I am looking at the Tai Zhu Lohan form that we do in our system.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plFn3-EFGJI

Same postures, techniques and executions albeit done with a different “flavor”. We do forms in a more “rooted” Southern manner.

Regards.

But then it bags the question are the sequences the same?

On a different note, I like the Chuojiao and the Chuojiao Fanzi clips that you posted. They are no doubt traditional. :)

Chuojiao and Fanzi are often considered sister styles. Chuojiao is sometimes known as Wu Tang Fanzi. The movements are more expansive. The rising back kick is pretty much signature kick of Chuojiao in their forms.

Warm regards

Robert

[pakhok]

Hi all,


Videos must go on :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bt5nN5i2xMc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2NOvblX2Ds

regards,
Milan

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Robert, as always, your message never fails to provoke and inspire. It’s my honor to be acquainted with you.

I agree, in most parts, the spirit of your opinions.

Mine are somewhat simpler and to some, hardened.

Talk to the “crazy Dutchman” and he’ll tell you that, in all the 2 plus years that we’ve been interacting, I have never shifted my stance.

I am sure my Southern “rootedness” training has got something to do with this.

Traditional CKF has a very special place with me. And yes I got to accede that it’s not just the fighting elements but also the histories, traditions, philosophies, peoples and even the politics that sometimes add to the colorful fabric.

My upbringing is “strange” in certain ways. My dad’s generation was caught up in the transitional period of cultures, so to speak. Uprooted from the motherland, they found themselves in a new place where intermingling and adaptations was the key to survival. To survive and thrive in such environment calls for much efforts.

You are a displaced Chinese and I don’t have to describe any of this to you.

Still, a big part of him struggles to keep the “Chinese ness” alive. So to be conversant in both academic and martial skills is still very much the aspiration. To embrace the new and not forget the old became the mantra.

I did not take up the various arts at random. It was, more or less, part of a plan. I must have disappointed him tremendously with my failure in the Northern styles.

I love traditional arts – pure and simple.

Every now and then, I might peek into modern Wushu, MMAs and non-Chinese arts but my heart still stays with old CKF.

Nothing gives me more joy than to watch an old Master do his routine wearing an all-knowing smile on his face.

Sometimes I wonder; did the old Masters taught in riddles just so to compel us to discover for ourselves, the brilliance behind the methods.

They like to use words like polishing to associate with training.

Now if I remember correctly, you need to polish quite a bit to see the diamond in the stone…..

Warmest regards my good friend.

Eric

ps Milan, you're right; videos must go on. I will post some 2 men drills later....

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

A 2 men drill form from FuoHanQuan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3dNcxiX7Gc

I remember reading an article in a magazine about this style many years ago.

With the passing years and hundreds of magazines in my dump, I really don’t know where to start looking for this article.

So if any of you fine people know more about FuoHan, please fill in.:)

Regards.

[Eric Ling]

Good Sunday Morning folks,

Posting a clip of yet another rarely mentioned or seen Northern style – 3 Royal Cannon Fists.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m76nzGzaFqc

Interestingly this style is also known as “Taizu” or “Grand Ancestor”.

This particular form, to me, smells a little Hsing Yi….

Anyone on board a practitioner?

Would not be posting the next couple of days – traveling to a place called Sibu here in Sarawak; about 1 ½ hours away by air from Kuching.

Going there to visit and video:-

• Hakka Praying Mantis Sifu Wong. His son is the one in the Hakka PM clip I posted earlier on.
• Flying Crane Sifu Lee
• Wuzhu 5 Ancestors Sifu Xiong De Lu
• Some of late GM Huang Xin Xien’s descendant; his Tai Chi and Whooping Crane disciples.

And to eat Fuzhou food hahaha… Sibu has probably the largest Fuzhou community outside mainland – also known as “Xin FuZhou” or “New Fuzhou”.

Food, food, glorious food lalalala :D :D :D

Regards.

[fiercest tiger]

Hi Eric,

Those Chou Jiao clips, are great that 4 of 4 is very kool! What are they putting there feet into the square holes in the ground i couldnt see it as well the hands>?

Thanks very much for sharing your info mate much respect!! :)

kind regards
Garry

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody.

Milan, this is a formal warning to you; do not give away the secret of “Shaking Crane” so freely in open internet discussions. Much blood had been spilled in protecting this ancient “secret”.

No offence to the genuine Shaking Crane folks; I think they have a terrific system. In fact, the one style Crane that I would love to study, if given the opportunity…. I am too old and clumsy to make a good student though.

FT, you are too kind. Like I said before, no biggie. I got materials that I think should be opened to all.

My position is simple; holding back would just allow for too much speculations. This is going to be detrimental to the prolongation and propagation of traditional CKF.

I like to think that we are all gathered here because we love and care for the arts and especially where they are headed.

This generation, imho, can do so much with real-time communications and visuals made possible by the internet.

So it is really up to each one of us; doesn’t matter what styles, colors or creeds.

Passion is passion is passion.

And Carlsberg is probably the best beer in the world…….and don’t anybody argue with me here!

[Shaolin Master]

FT,

That is Yao Gong in Chuojiao. It is the application of medicine for the development of Chuojiao iron leg type training.... The medicine is simmering underneath and then feet hands etc are placed over, the distance and time are all critical to ensure efficacy.

There are many special gong or skills in chuojiao, that is one of them only.

Eric,

Fohanquan is from Hebei and is derived from the teachings of Monk Guangming over three years to Master Jia Yunlu the founder. It is complete based around a two man set which is the complete style, long and consisting of 24 sections.

Sanhuang Paochui is also from Hebei, it is popular in Yi county, the skills were first taught and expounded by Qiao Sanxiu. The style was expanded and became furtherly popular as it was practised by the members of the Jingdu Huiyou Biaoju (Capital Huiyou Security Escort Logistics Bureau), thereafter it became commonly associated with Beijing, where currently there is quite a following. The movements are one move one release one breath in one out in general. Fairly straightforward. There are two main branches of the style: Song Style (Song Mailun) and Yu Style (Yu Liandeng)

Regards
Wu Chanlong

[pakhok]

Hi to all,

Eric worning accepted , I didn't meaned nothing bad exept for video camera will shake if Carlsberg is included :) Anyway thanks for worning.
My love and respect about White Crane is out of question , but I think I must be more serious in the future otherwise people will think that I am much younger than you :D .

And of course, ewerybody knows that Carlsberg is the best bear on the world :) does exist any different kind of bear? :D isn't it people?

Eric here is Fujian Shaking Crane form in my private videos but I am not sure did you accept my invitation to private vids access. Please check your YouTube inbox, thanks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsGdd1xO5o0

with regards and respect to all,
Milan

[mantis108]

Hi everybody,

Robert, as always, your message never fails to provoke and inspire. It’s my honor to be acquainted with you.

My friend, I am sure the feeling is mutual. It's quite an honor to be acquainte with you too.


I agree, in most parts, the spirit of your opinions.

Mine are somewhat simpler and to some, hardened.

Talk to the “crazy Dutchman” and he’ll tell you that, in all the 2 plus years that we’ve been interacting, I have never shifted my stance.

I am sure my Southern “rootedness” training has got something to do with this.

I hear you and I understand your position as well. :)


Traditional CKF has a very special place with me. And yes I got to accede that it’s not just the fighting elements but also the histories, traditions, philosophies, peoples and even the politics that sometimes add to the colorful fabric.

My upbringing is “strange” in certain ways. My dad’s generation was caught up in the transitional period of cultures, so to speak. Uprooted from the motherland, they found themselves in a new place where intermingling and adaptations was the key to survival. To survive and thrive in such environment calls for much efforts.

You are a displaced Chinese and I don’t have to describe any of this to you.

Absolutely.

[/quote]Still, a big part of him struggles to keep the “Chinese ness” alive. So to be conversant in both academic and martial skills is still very much the aspiration. To embrace the new and not forget the old became the mantra.[/quote]

I see. Chinese is an identity that we can be proud of for sure.


I did not take up the various arts at random. It was, more or less, part of a plan. I must have disappointed him tremendously with my failure in the Northern styles.

You know very few people have that kind of vision. My hats off to your father. :)

Honestly, as far as failure goes I would think I fail in Southern styles too. But I supposed there are times that certain things speak to us clearer then other things.

習武貴強身﹐豈分南北
修行尚明理﹐不論古今

Northern or Southern is just 2 side of the same coin right?


I love traditional arts – pure and simple.

Same here. :)


Every now and then, I might peek into modern Wushu, MMAs and non-Chinese arts but my heart still stays with old CKF.

Nothing gives me more joy than to watch an old Master do his routine wearing an all-knowing smile on his face.

I hear you.

[quote]Sometimes I wonder; did the old Masters taught in riddles just so to compel us to discover for ourselves, the brilliance behind the methods.

They like to use words like polishing to associate with training.

Now if I remember correctly, you need to polish quite a bit to see the diamond in the stone…..[quote]

Point well taken, my good friend. :D

Warmest regards

Robert

[fiercest tiger]

Shaolin Master,

I had a feeling it was something on those lines when he had his hands over the hole.

What is the english name for that system and is there a complete history, those guys look like they train very hard and condition very well.

Thanks

Erik,

Totally agree, there are no secrets just hard work and understanding of your chosen system.

have a good one guys! :)
FT

[pakhok]

Hi all,

Small improvisation four punches and four blocks by me and Danilo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDAQ68GzuO8

regards

PS. from now I am totally serious with apologize if I made any mistake in communication until now

[Yen-Wang-Yeh]

Someone actually fighting using what they have learned! I am stunned and amazed. It some what lacks in initial application, but goes to prove traditional gung fu movements remain valid if one simply practises and trains how to apply them in Today's martial world.

Bravo! I chuckled gleefully at the following clip. Now this is a student of a true gung fu teacher!

White Crane Pak Hok Pai kick ass
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGGkFqg_cpc&mode=related&search=

[pakhok]

Yen Wang Yeh,

Did you check this link?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lOguT2wVIE

regards

[pakhok]

Hi everyone,

Somebody must works until Sifu Eric back with new materials :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRd8xnYVoS8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNjYAboN9kE

Some Krav Maga apps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENvWl5hc25M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_3qael6VDY

Xing Yi - Eight Fists form
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__wGJewQ-kc

regards,
Milan

[pakhok]

Hi,

Nice form

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E2PFUTRI0w

regards,

[Yen-Wang-Yeh]

Yes Pak Hok, I did check out all of the Pak Hok Pai fighting clips. Whomever the practitioner is, it does my gung fu heart well to see a practitioner use basic technique in an open tournament setting. Of course when one places video footage for the general public to view there is going to be criticism: mine being I'd like to see a more solid fighting stance out of this practitioner. It is quite loose.

I will say this is a fine example of using one's style though and successfully. It doesn't matter much about winning a point system or not; you can tell who is in control of all of the matches I viewed. Again..well done and my compliments to this gung fu fighter!

[pakhok]

Hi,

I am impressed when I saw traditional basic skills in action.
Fighter is young man Mario from Arkansas USA, the longest video is his first tournament with 17 yrs old, the next two videos are in the meantime.
He is 20 yrs old now and he have my best wishes and suport for further training and developing traditional way :).
I share interest and love for traditional way in MA whatewer style is about.

with regards,

[Eric Ling]

Hi folks,

Back from my Sibu trip – what a trip! Too short for my liking so I am planning to go back again in the next couple of months to get more Kung Fu.

Managed to make some preliminary contacts with Sifus from “Fong Yang Pai”, “Butterfly Palms” and “Southern Shaolin Hungga” but due to time constrains, I got to schedule shooting session some other time.

Naively thought I could simply zip through the whole process and just get the Kung Fu I set out to obtain.

Didn’t count on the dinners, tea sessions and my own demos to “warm” everybody up hahaha… with all that Carlsberg inside, Milan you’re right, I might have been giving out “Shaking” Crane without even knowing it.

At least I managed to video Hakka Praying Mantis’ Sifu Wong and Wuzhu’s Sifu Xiong De Lu.

Both these fine gentlemen are exactly the reason I love traditional CKF so much. Committed to their art forms all their lives, they couldn’t be more unlike in their everyday lifestyles.

Sifu Wong is a very successful businessman (with the pouch to show) and Sifu Xiong is still working 9 to 5. After work, Kung Fu is the equalizer I guess.

Sifu Wong concentrates on passing his skills to his son, Edmund who is expected to carry on the torch for his unique style PM.

Sifu Xiong, on the hand, is still determinedly training beginners, including many kids and even including “fun” kung fu to retain them. This, to me, is very admirable. Imagine doing a “fan” form to the music of Jay Chou. The Sifu Xiong that I know is as solid as they come and yet watching him supervise a class is revealing another side that is new to me. He’s like a father in front of the little ones…..

I really take my hat off to these 2 Sifus – makes me feel little in their company.

I should have some clips ready tomorrow; they are still in the camera and I am just too puffed to work on them now.

For tonight, I got to continue on polishing my “shaking” crane hahahaha and maybe dream about phoenixes, butterflies and the days when Kung Fu Masters were revered as heroes and kingmakers……

Regards.

ps. Milan, thanks for your contributions. Beginning to look like I got to send you some Chivas or Maw Tais maybe......:) :) :)

[pakhok]

Hi,

Eric welcome back. You are lucky man :)

Contributions will continue soon and I am glad if you gave comment that you like something I posted.


My occupation is bussines time and everyday problems, not lucky and usefull trip like you had this days, but I will be back soon to receive that Chivas present :)


regards
Milan

ps. what Maw Tais is? it sounds good :D

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Posting the first short clip cut taken during my Sibu trip.

You see Sifu Xiong De Lu doing a Wuzhu (5 Ancestors) form named “Eight Immortals Lohan”.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96qqZ91L4gE

The “Eight Immortals” portion is reflected in the “drunken” stepping pattern throughout the form in which “Lohan” hands is very clearly represented.

I am so glad that Sifu Xiong, a highly regarded Wuzhu Master, has agreed to have me video his forms and drills.

I am working with him, presently, to archive all his forms/applications and drills into video format.

I love doing this; helping to preserve old arts for future references.

Want to take this opportunity here to thank Sifu Xiong again for the shooting session even after leading class for couple of hours before.

Regards.

[Eric Ling]

Hello everyone,

Milan, I don’t really like to comment on styles that I don’t do personally – my views, in this case, don’t really mean anything.

I’ll watch and keep opinions to myself; most of which would be shaped by the lenses I see through with…

Got another 2 short clip here from my trip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TB69CMvgzw0
Sifu Wong Sie Lee and his son, Edmund, illustrating a technique from one of their forms.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6leb1GB6Z74
Edmund doing the same form I posted earlier on. This time, with a better camera, I hope you see this form better. Edmund was a bit nervous this time round .....

Like I mentioned earlier, Sifu Wong does Southern Shaolin Hakka Praying Mantis; a predominantly short range fast techniques system using explosive “jin”.

Sifu Wong was kind enough to take time off his busy schedule to do forms and explain the major features of his system.

Personally this system is a good example of “when my hands touch your hands, you’re mine”….. to quote a crazy friend.

Regards.

[TenTigers]

nixe ckios on the SPM, ERic. What line is he from?

[custom156]

Hey Ten Tigers, its just occured to me that you might be Rik (?), many moons ago used to be on the AOL martial arts message boards?
Used to chat about Pak Mei and (amongst other things) chops to you, I was the only English guy on the boards all those years back.
Ring any bells?

[pakhok]

Hi everybody,

Here is Five Elements by Xing Yi form

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxWBKxCGCbc

Eric, I didn't understand you everything , maybe due to my not perfect English, but I hope there is positive energy around us, like I believed from first contact with you.
Of course for me is relevant every one comment by you or any opinion you can give. From my point of view you are somebody very experienced with lot of knowledge about MA and I am lucky man when I can see and learn anything new from you.
You, and my respect to you are only reasons why I am active here on this thread, with my respect to others, I will be present here but passive watcher who read and learn and of course share with people what I think is good to be shared.
I am small and low beginner level in MA and I hope i didn't say or do anything wrong.

With best regards and best wishes to all,
Milan

[Eric Ling]

Hi Milan,

I respect folks like you more than you know. If you have been to old WuLin, you must know where I stand concerning non-Chinese walking the Chinese path.

I sometimes think we, the Chinese, got it relatively easier. With little or no language/culture high walls, Kung Fu should be a breeze.

But in reality that’s not true. The Kung Fu path is, in my experience, a very demanding one in so many ways.

Discipline and sacrifice are a pre-requisite – no 2 ways about this.

My English is weak too; often I am being misunderstood also because of my weak command of English.

To communicate and convey Kung Fu concepts in English is something I do cautiously. For me to comment about others, especially styles that I don’t do first-hand, is something that I want to handle very delicately. My late Sifu like to say this; “Kung Fu peoples have tough bones and muscles but very soft skins” so if you got nothing nice to say, don’t say anything!”

A case of “silence speaks volumes” perhaps…..

So my friend, I got many ghosts of my own too and I like to express my admiration/respect to all you non-Chinese walking the Chinese path.

You are putting in a lot more than me to get where you are and that I do know is definitely no walk in the park.

Got a clip here from the trip showing Sifu Wong & Edmund teaching me a thing or 2 about Hakka Praying Mantis. Notice all the “Muay Thai” scars on my legs….my wife is threatening to ignore me if I don’t stop beating up my own legs hahaha..

We are speaking in mainly Fuzhou (just in case anyone is wondering) with a bit of Mandarin added.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxAaETLxIW4

Ten, got the history/lineage from Sifu Wong verbally. Need to check with him about accuracy before I present it in written form publicly.

Regards.

[TenTigers]

Hey Custom, yaeh that's me. That goes a long, way back. I don't even remember that forum. I think I used to go online when I visted my parents in Fla,

[Eric Ling]

Hi everyone,


I know Sifu Xiong for a while now; in fact traveled with him twice to a town called “Singkawang” in Kalimantan Indonesia.

This town has a big Chinese Hakka population and with the relaxing of cultural restrictions, the Chinese there are planning to re-introduce CKF training into schools etc..

I was invited to join the delegation from Sarawak for a series of performances there; one actually took place in the middle of the town. Folks there just barricaded the streets and erected an impromptu stage for us.

There must be hundreds of spectators crowded all over to watch the performance. I was told by some locals during my 2nd visit that someone actually videoed that performance and was selling them in VCDs….this is so funny…

Sifu Xiong is a CKF veteran with an encyclopedic knowledge of various styles and traditions. His first love, however, is still the Wuzhu that he teaches. His enthusiasm for Wuzhu is obvious & unmistakable when he delves into the history, concepts and techniques.

I cannot begin to tell you how much I’ve learned from this reticent and humble gentleman.

Got him here doing “Poisonous Snake Obstructing Path”; the same form that I posted with one of my students performing a while back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iec7i3Ll5Dk

One form, two different transmission lines and almost one whole night of sharing/exchanges and people wonder why I am so nuts about traditional Kung Fu…

Medicine just cannot cure some…hahahaha….

Or in the words of Hendrik (probably); if you know, you know or you will never know even if you know……huh ???

Regards.

[pakhok]

Hi all,

Eric thanks for this great words.
It seems we will destroy one day few Carlsbergs and Chivas, few.... but boxes :D

This is one of links helping me to learn and understand even from Chines language.
This help me to translate from Chines to English and than I translate to my language

http://www.worldlingo.com/en/products_services/worldlingo_translator.html

For me very usefull toy .

And of course Javimoja site, the best downloader online for all kinds of video extensions from different addresses. much much better than VideoDL

http://javimoya.com/blog/youtube_en.php


This are present links for today :)

with best regards,
Milan

[Eric Ling]

Hi all,

Sorry for the silence the last 2 days – busy with some business stuffs and meeting and shooting another Hakka Sifu here in Kuching.

Some time back, I was told by a friend that there is this Hakka Sifu who was teaching a system of traditional Hakka boxing. I was given very brief info regarding this. This Sifu and his Kung Fu got me piqued since then.

2 days ago, I happened to bump into this same friend and got him to find out the address of this retired Sifu.

I got that and decided to drive out to this small village just on the outskirt of Kuching. There, in a very idyllic setting, I finally found Sifu Kong.

At 65 and nursing a wound on his leg, Sifu Kong was all gusto when I told him about my CKF preservation work.

A Hakka Chu Gar Suppressing Tiger Master, Sifu Kong Shu Ming was very gracious enough to, not only, do a basic form for the camera, and he even gave me a handwritten manual from his style. This manual was written by his late teacher, Grand Master Chu Ching Hwa. This system teaches five forms and their fighting principles revolve around “shocking, deceiving and tricking” the opponent. Looking at Sifu Kong’s delivery, I see much of the “whipping” that I am familiar with. He agreed for me to return to shoot all the 5 forms in their entirety when he is more up to it.

Afterwards, we spent about an hour just talking about CKF in Sarawak and much to my excitement; I was told that there is a Fuzhou Tiger Master who is still teaching in another small town.

Now this I got to really check out. I remember hearing about this Tiger style from Fuzhou which looks nothing like what mainland Fuzhou is doing.

My White Crane Sifu told me that there was a Tiger Master who taught in the very same club where I got my White Crane. But that Sifu did not teach much and so what I got later in my training syllabus is just inkling of the system.

I will post a clip of Sifu Kong when I am done with the converting and editing.

Regards.

[Eric Ling]

Hi everyone,

Sorry, still don’t have the clip ready.

Completely tied up with giving www.wulinijia.com the final touches before we roll out.

So much printed and video materials to be prepared for injecting into the site….

On top of that, I’ve got appointments lined up to shoot some White Crane folks the next couple of days here.

Anyway, scanned the cover and couple of pages of the manual given by Sifu Kong.

For those of you who read Mandarin, this should give you glimpses into the basics of this unique system.

Regards.

Ps. Milan, I can’t open the file you sent. Can you resend in jpeg format – something that I could open with Adobe Photoshop would be good.

Sorry, I didn’t answer your “Maw Tai” question; Chinese poison my friend.

[pakhok]

Hi ppls,

Ou Eric thanks, but Chivas will be enough, I am satisfied with small things :D

Eric its just Adobe Acrobat needed to access that kind of files, like for e-books mostly. I will resend today :)



with regards,
Milan

[pakhok]

Hi,

Is this thread finished? :D


regards,

[Eric Ling]

Hi Milan,

Anything but …..

I am just very caught up in my website at the moment.

Originally meant to be simply a MA resource site, now the site is going to include other functions.

This is something that requires much working and testing.

I will start posting clips again.

Regards.

And thanks for the manual you sent ……

[pakhok]

Hi everyone,

Eric I am glad if you like it, I beleive you know that.

In the meantime untill you back I will keep tradition :) with video clips of course :D

Wing Chun Siu Lim form
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdAypE17L-8

Four gates form
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0n_g0ucLfGs

regards,

[Shadow_warrior8]

Hello Eric,
I would be keen to see what clips you have of my sifu on Cho Ga Wingchun.
I have a video of him doing the original SLT, and my sihing doing 2 other forms, 13 hands, dummy form, Chi Ba Dim.
Can you post them here?
Hendrik Sisok, its Bertrand, nice to see you here

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Sorry for the absence; up to the neck with business and other activities.

Okay, Master Ku, I got him doing the whole Chu Gar form plus a little of his WC fighting principles. And I thought this sect only do one long form instead of the usual SLT, CK and Bil Jee?

Anyway this tape, together with a bunch of others is now with a friend in Singapore. My friend is digitalizing them for me at the moment.

Got here a clip talking about the central principle of Wing Chun fighting. Taken off a mainland VCD.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UP_o6bPxrIY

Enjoy.

Regards.

[Shadow_warrior8]

Hi Eric,
You are right to say Ku Sifu or rather Ban Chung WC SLT is one form, it only depends on which version. He taught the original form to 14 people and then the New SLT form(as instructed by Liu Sigung) then on. Not sure which one you have, but if it takes 10 mins to just do the form, then that's the one.
Sifu also taught Siu Miu Fa(Plum Blossom) and also Sui Da form. Those were the other 2 forms I mentioned.
Did you manage to film the 13 hands? I understand Yuen Kay San Wingchun have a similar set of 12 hands.
Look forward to see the videos. Regards,



Hi everybody,

Sorry for the absence; up to the neck with business and other activities.

Okay, Master Ku, I got him doing the whole Chu Gar form plus a little of his WC fighting principles. And I thought this sect only do one long form instead of the usual SLT, CK and Bil Jee?

Anyway this tape, together with a bunch of others is now with a friend in Singapore. My friend is digitalizing them for me at the moment.

Got here a clip talking about the central principle of Wing Chun fighting. Taken off a mainland VCD.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UP_o6bPxrIY

Enjoy.

Regards.

[fiercest tiger]

Hi Guys,

I finally got a clip of my YKM form sup bat mor kuil from 3 years ago!

enjoy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7aO8WGF8kY

[Eric Ling]

Garry,

Nice....really nice....:)

Regards.

[pakhok]

Hi everyone,

Hi Eric welcome back.
I posted few new videos from materials I have and send you email. Have you any suggestion further for me?


regards
Milan

[Eric Ling]

Hi Milan,

Thanks for the materials you sent – really appreciate it.

We are now adding another function in the website to allow for members (like you) to upload their materials for sharing.

In the meantime, just hang on a little bit more.

Again, thanks so much for your patience. I will make it worth your wait, I promise.

Regards.

Eric :)