Have you ever defended a good wrestling double leg takedown in your training?

[Dragon Warrior]

Do you think you can? How would you do it? If the knee misses and he starts to have you off balance what do you do next?

[MasterKiller]

Sprawl, cross-face or grab his back ankle, try to move to side control...

[Mas Judt]

And if that doesn't work, fake him out by pretending to hit the ground and pass out from the impact. Did I say pretend?

[lkfmdc]

I use my tiger claw and crane beak combination. If that doesn't work, I resort to dim mak :rolleyes:

[Lama Pai Sifu]

"What the hell's a Dim Mak?"

[lkfmdc]

there are intelligent mak's and then there are slow ones, we usually call them "dim" :cool:

[SifuAbel]

The opposite of a bright mak.


doh! WAVELENGTH!!

[lkfmdc]

hah hah, beat you to it

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Are you guys for real? Uh..Blood Sport...hello????

[lkfmdc]

Are you guys for real?

No, I'm not real, I'm just a manifestation of brain damage suffered when somone tried to catch a suitcase that fell out a 3rd story window :D

[Asia]

Do you think you can? How would you do it? If the knee misses and he starts to have you off balance what do you do next?

If you tried a knee and missed then you fall down. There is next to nothing that you can do in that situation because you are not stable from the attempted knee.

[lkfmdc]

*cough* underhooks *cough* .... sorry, this **** cold

[Asia]

*cough* underhooks *cough* .... sorry, this **** cold
How is he going to get underhooks if he is using a knee to stop a DL shot?

[unkokusai]

This is one poll I can definately answer in the affirmative!:cool:

[unkokusai]

How is he going to get underhooks if he is using a knee to stop a DL shot?


By which you mean to say that trying to throw a knee may not be the best choice of defense to begin with. Good point.

[Asia]

By which you mean to say that trying to throw a knee may not be the best choice of defense to begin with. Good point.

Definitely not the best choice unless you are spot on with it. If you miss you are actually making it EASIER to take you down.

[lkfmdc]

if you throw a knee with no structure as a "defense" against a shoot, you're an idiot. Within structure, a failed knee can still be saved with underhooks....

[unkokusai]

if you throw a knee with no structure as a "defense" against a shoot, you're an idiot. Within structure, a failed knee can still be saved with underhooks....


Ah........................NO.

[Asia]

if you throw a knee with no structure as a "defense" against a shoot, you're an idiot. Within structure, a failed knee can still be saved with underhooks....

If you have underhooks there is no need for a knee to defend the takedown. Thats not what the poster asked he wanted to know what you do if the knee fail. Which would mean he wouldn't have underhooks because if he did the opponent wouldn't be able to DL.

[lkfmdc]

Ah........................NO.

Why don't you expain why the answer is "no" for us "champ"? Or should we take your word for it? :rolleyes:

[unkokusai]

Why don't you expain why the answer is "no" for us "champ"? Or should we take your word for it? :rolleyes:


Yes you should take my word for it, because the assumption that you will get underhooks off a leg shot is unrealistic and throwing a knee will put you off balance regardless of anything else, so you are still at a disadvantage in the very likely event that it doesn't land.

[lkfmdc]

Yes you should take my word for it, because the assumption that you will get underhooks off a leg shot is unrealistic and throwing a knee will put you off balance regardless of anything else, so you are still at a disadvantage in the very likely event that it doesn't land.

I see you still aren't seeing the forest for the trees :rolleyes:

Like I said, the initial premise is absurd. I'm not going to throw a knee from no where vs a shoot. A knee as an "anti grappling" tactic requires a structure. A double neck tie, forearm shield, arm and collar, etc etc etc... from there you can TRY a knee... but you can also find out pretty quickly they may still come in and get ahold of that leg. Depending upon HOW they get ahold of that leg, your options might include trying to secure an underhook. Other migh include pushing the head down.... but these are practical suggestions, not the deep wisdom from the mount of your "no" :rolleyes:

[lkfmdc]

or perhaps you thought my tiger claw and crane beak comment was serious :cool:

[unkokusai]

or perhaps you thought my tiger claw and crane beak comment was serious :cool:


I'm not taking anything you say seriously, you may rest assured.

[lkfmdc]

Please let us know when you decide to share your fighting and coaching secrets with the rest of us poor ignorant folk... I'm sure I can spare a dime for a short pamphlet :rolleyes:

[Dragon Warrior]

:

Like I said, the initial premise is absurd. I'm not going to throw a knee from no where vs a shoot. A knee as an "anti grappling" tactic requires a structure.

i've seen fighters throw knees when somoone is shooting! Cro-cop vs. Fugita is one example, look it up on youtube. Also, Pele vs. Matsui.

But these fighters also practice take-down defense.

[unkokusai]

Please let us know when you decide to share your fighting and coaching secrets with the rest of us poor ignorant folk... I'm sure I can spare a dime for a short pamphlet :(


Oh, I have no doubt that my fighting and coaching experience will be spun however you need it to be to try and save your sorry face in this conversation. :rolleyes:

[lkfmdc]

Save my face? Dude, you're the one looking silly. Can't admit that wrestling is different than fighting with strikes?

Dan Henderson is a heck of a better "wrestler" than Carolos Newton. The examples are long of werstlers who in pure wrestling are great going up against someon that on an NCAA mat couldn't hold their jock. But MMA is a different story

You must have studied some boxing, you're trying to slip all the direct questions :rolleyes:

I've trained a lot of fighters who have used knees WITH structure very successfully in both San Da and MMA against very competant wrestlers. I know my techniques work. If you want to live in LA LA land and ingore that fact, that's on you

[Fu-Pow]

Dude, why can't you push the head down and bring the knee up. It makes sense to me. :confused:

Maybe it depends on the range that the shooter is shooting from. If he's close in when he shoots your not going to be able to knee.

P.S.

I just noticed how many websites you have Ross.

[unkokusai]

Save my face? Dude, you're the one looking silly.


You just keep telling yourself that. :rolleyes:

[Ben Gash]

I love that Cro-cop Vs Fugita fight, he does everything Ross says "don't do this or you'll get kneed in the face" about and gets kneed in the face :D

[Ben Gash]

That knee is on this montage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuzrm1KMPJQ
I love Filipovic, his ground game isn't really that great, but he's SUCH a good striker that it doesn't seem to matter. He does the stuff that strikers say "well I'd just do that" and it actualy works for him (which supports the training time and attitude argument quite strongly).

[BruceSteveRoy]

so far i think the most realistic answer is the first reply. i remember the first fight i evr got in was at wrestling practice. the guy kept shooting his hand up towards my face trying to make me flinch so he could shoot in. problem was he poked me in the face twice and i told him to stop. on the third time he poked me in the eye and shot in for a double leg. i sprawled then started punching the guy in the back of the neck. its pretty effective but not very nice. so yeah i would say on gut reaction the best way to not have some one take your legs if to keep them out of reach by sprawling.

[Knifefighter]

i've seen fighters throw knees when somoone is shooting! Cro-cop vs. Fugita is one example, look it up on youtube. Also, Pele vs. Matsui.

But these fighters also practice take-down defense.
Knees can be a very potent "anti-grappling" defense.

Also, check out the UFC match between John Lewis and Lowell Anderson- a classic example of how to use knees to stuff takedown attempts.

[David Jamieson]

I use a sprawl when someone tries a shoot either single or double and I will either push the head down or go for a guillotine.

I find that when I try to get a knee in, the forward motion of the shooter will push me back and render the knee not very effective, unless i can stop his forward motion, remain in a good position to launch the knee. Or my timing is just right

prefer to push him down though, it has a higher percentage of effectiveness on the shoot for me anyways.

[lkfmdc]

I love that Cro-cop Vs Fugita fight, he does everything Ross says "don't do this or you'll get kneed in the face" about and gets kneed in the face :D

I tried telling him, but I think there was a language issue :p

[lkfmdc]

You just keep telling yourself that. :rolleyes:

said by the man who embarassed himself and back peddled in the other thread :rolleyes:

[unkokusai]

said by the man who embarassed himself and back peddled in the other thread :rolleyes:


Cook up any fantasy you want, the fact remains that you don't know your ass from your elbow.

[lkfmdc]

Cook up any fantasy you want, the fact remains that you don't know your ass from your elbow.

bwahhhaahhhaaaaahhhaaaaaa

you sound like Ken Shamrock at the last UFC weigh ins :rolleyes:

[Golden Arms]

Why the focus on the knee anyways? Why not use structure to take the bite out of the takedown (underhooks for example, sprawl or rotating/sidestepping), then strike, instead of betting everything on the strike itself and risking your structure? Doesnt sound like smart stand up fighting to me.

[unkokusai]

Why the focus on the knee anyways? Why not use structure to take the bite out of the takedown (underhooks for example, sprawl or rotating/sidestepping), then strike, instead of betting everything on the strike itself and risking your structure? Doesnt sound like smart stand up fighting to me.


Very good point.

[Ben Gash]

Why the focus on the knee anyways? Why not use structure to take the bite out of the takedown (underhooks for example, sprawl or rotating/sidestepping), then strike, instead of betting everything on the strike itself and risking your structure? Doesnt sound like smart stand up fighting to me.
Because of the tragic decline in the teaching of effective bridging skills in traditional CMA schools :(

[Golden Arms]

Go back to you basics then and work them with a partner, increasing resistance as you go. The bridging material is alive and healthy in my martial arts, I wonder how so many seem to be getting so little in CMA...scary.