Bagua, for beginners?

[unclaimed effort]

I have a friend who is newly interested in the martial arts. He asked me which one is best? I, of course, told him it depends on which martial arts fits him. Since we've been friends for a while I know a lot of things about him, he has a lot of patience, and cares about health and longevity so i'm sure he fits the internal arts. Out of the main 3, he first eliminated Tai Chi because he does not feel comfortable having to do things in slow motion. Now up to Hsing-I and Bagua, he asked me something about Bagua I cannot really answer. So it's up to you guys. My friend wants to know whether or not the moves are going to be easy to perform or learn as someone who hasn't any experience in external arts? (More so the flexibility and balance factor)

I can be like one of those philosophers who hide everything in poems, but instead I can tell you the true secret of martial arts in one word:

PRACTICE!

[blur]

While I am no expert in any way, I would suggest Hsing I. The reason being that it is linear based. The dynamic movement of bagua may be confusing to a complete beginner. Once he is confortable with martial technique, movement, theory, etc. etc. he could benefit more from systems such as bagua and tai chi.

[Mr. Nemo]

I'm a beginner, and bagua's worked out great for me. I've never taken hsing-i, though.

[unclaimed effort]

Thanks

I can be like one of those philosophers who hide everything in poems, but instead I can tell you the true secret of martial arts in one word:

PRACTICE!

[Waidan]

Don't some bagua systems (Gao comes to mind, but I'm certain there are others) start out learning forms/movements in a liniar fasion and later transition to a circle?

I've never learned xingyi, but it does seem like it'd be a bit easier to catch-on to at first. The internal mechanics are just as advanced (and subsequently difficult) as the sister styles, however (from my understanding).

Any xingyi guys want to chime in on this?

[TheBigToad]

At least for me Xingyiquan involved a very different idea to what fighting was and was kept completely separate from my Bagua, I'm thinking this was so I learned them in very pure forms and neither was tainted by the other.

There is no need for someone to have had prior martial experience to learn Bagua, the circle walking can be complicated at first but once understood to some degree everything else falls into place. I'm not a big fan of showing Bagua in the sense of forms right away.

I think posture holding and learning to focus your intention through a single posture and working on the circle walking yields better results for a beginner, prior martial experience to me means nothing, Bagua is a system all by its self and out classes a lot of what out there so every body new to Bagua is a beginner with no experience in my book.

Also single posture holding strengthen the body more and forces the person to relax and get comfortable to hold this posture and circle walk for 30-60 min at a time.
Xingyi is different (to me) altogether, its much more simplistic in approach more reptilian brain and that has its benefits.

Xingyi develops more an animal instinct of survival in a natural and brutal manner, Bagua is more the higher system in which things come from a void or intuitive level of understanding rather then a fight or flight response never mind how cold and or calm that resins might be.

The two systems in my mind never really should be mixed together because they throw each other off. Not until good fundamentals of Bagua sets in should Xingyi be introduced, so it too can be learned with a more Bagua mind set.

The circle will always be, but you alone decides when it starts and where it ends.

[TheBigToad]

>>Out of the main 3, he first eliminated Tai Chi because he does not feel comfortable having to do things in slow motion. <<

Well then your friend is going to be at a rude awakening because doing things in slow motion in the beginning and even when you have a good set of bascis done is what internal arts do.

Moving slow lets you feel the posture, learn to relax, stretch and open joints and building up red twitch muscle fibbers which is what create speed.

Something tht is said which is very true "If you want to move fast, move slow, want to move faster, move slower, want to move like lighting, don't move at all... "

You "friend" will need to come to grips with that or he is going to get nowhere and nothing realy quick.

The circle will always be, but you alone decides when it starts and where it ends.

[wujidude]

Nice to see you back on the forums. Are you still working with Dr. Painter's baguazhang system?

[TheBigToad]

Hey Wujidude, I'm been busy to say the least... but I have bit of time now to contribute.

Yep still with Shifu Painter, I like his style and the way he teaches it and how well what I learned before works right in.

How have you been?
-Kevin

The circle will always be, but you alone decides when it starts and where it ends.

[The Willow Sword]

i would start the beginner walking the circle first, a wide circle, and i would then as time goes by bring them closer in. after they got the basics of the stance posture and the flavour then i would start teaching them the sections and the changes. from my experience i would like to have the students have a basic knowlege of tai-chi before going on. but i realize that the young will not want to be going so slow.
many respects willow sword

Whatever you think i am or want me to be,,, i am.
oh and,,,Jesus loves you, everyone else thinks you are an a$.

[wujidude]

Doing all right, Kevin . . . like you, I've been pretty busy. Actually going to be on the road quite a bit this summer, and unfortunately will be on the opposite coast when Dr. Painter comes to LA. One of these days I'll make it to a seminar of his, though . . . Nice layout of why you study with Painter over on the thread about his LA seminar, by the way. I don't know why, I just smile when I see that picture of Dr. Painter in camouflage army dress and beret in a bagua stance . . . I imagine a bunch of leatherneck US Marines walking the circle during basic training, sounding off with each palm change ;- ). Actually I did find out from friends that Painter's stuff is used informally by more than one Israeli soldier.

Anyways, glad to hear you're keeping up with your training. Sounds like it's paying off for you.

[TheBigToad]

>>I just smile when I see that picture of Dr. Painter in camouflage army dress and beret in a bagua stance . . . I imagine a bunch of leatherneck US Marines walking the circle during basic training, sounding off with each palm change ;- ). <<<

:) No comment :) lol

-Kevin

The circle will always be, but you alone decides when it starts and where it ends.

[blur]

After reading some of the other responses I would suggest taking your friend to schools you trust and have him see hsing i and pa kua in action and let them decide which they may like to do.