List Specific Benefits of Internal Arts

[David82]

Internal Arts profess to give their practitioners mental and physical benefits. I'm greatly interested in what benefits do regular practitioners (not mythical masters from China) see within themselves.

Has Tai Chi (Ba Gua, Xingyi, etc.) made you be able to handle stress better? Be less anxious? Be more patient? Be able to concentrate for a longer period of time? Improved your mood?

Has it made a chronic illness go away? Helped recuperate from an injury? Allowed you to move better in general? Made you feel more confident in defending yourself?

If you can, please list any mental and physical benefits that you have received, how long you have been practicing, and what specific style you do.

[JohnnyMnemonic]

Internal Arts profess to give their practitioners mental and physical benefits. I'm greatly interested in what benefits do regular practitioners (not mythical masters from China) see within themselves.

Has Tai Chi (Ba Gua, Xingyi, etc.) made you be able to handle stress better?

Yes. Tai Chi does change you so that you are less stressed. Tai Chi builds up the "yin" part of your body so you can absorb more stress before you blow up. I put the yin in quotes because people define it in so many different ways. Tai Chi makes something inside of your body grow. This something has the property that it allows you to resist stress better. It is like a big pillow.




Be less anxious?

Yes. For the same reason listed above. Anxiety is usually due to a person being tight. Because Tai Chi relaxes you and makes that soft stuff grow, the body is not so tight so it does not produce the anxiety reaction so much.


Be more patient?

Yes. For the same reasons listed above. That soft stuff absorbs anxiety, tension and anything else that tests your patience.


Be able to concentrate for a longer period of time?

I will say yes. I have always had the ability to concentrate for long periods of time. I cannot tell you if it got better or not after Tai Chi.


Improved your mood?

Yes. You will become more calm and thoughtful. Your emotions will become more stable so that you do not bounce from one to the other.


Has it made a chronic illness go away? Helped recuperate from an injury? Allowed you to move better in general?

Absolutely without a doubt yes. It has not made a chronic illness go away. It has helped alleviate the condition. I know without a doubt that I move completely different from before I started Tai Chi. I know that I move differently from most regular people on the street.


Made you feel more confident in defending yourself?

Sort of. Not in the way you mean. You mean can I fight with someone better. Maybe, maybe not. I am more confident in defending myself because I would probably never get in a fight. The Tai Chi has helped me to read people. I can talk them out of fighting.

Or, because Tai Chi gave me confidence in my body and myself, I don't mind letting a person think what they want. If they want to fight me, I am willing to act like a weakling and let the fight go away. If the other guy brags about how he made me back down, I don't mind now the way it bothered me before I took Tai Chi.



If you can, please list any mental and physical benefits that you have received, how long you have been practicing, and what specific style you do.

Yang Style. Off and on for 10 or 15 years.

Ability to see "energy" in people. Energy as in the person's intention, not pretty colors. I can see what the person wants to do. If they want to move an arm or a leg, if they want to talk, if they are hiding something, etc. etc. etc.

Ability to sense energy defined as "electromagnetic energy that can cross distances invisibly". I can tell when people are focusing on me. I can tell if a person a block away is focusing on me if it is quiet.

Increased my own energy, defined as the electromagnetic kind of energy described above. More commonly I have increased my good energy. One of the problems with being a kung fu or Tai Chi person is that you will increase your energy tremoundously. All human beings want and need energy. Do you see the problem?

You have energy. People want energy. Whether a person believes in energy or not, their body will do what it needs to do. Their body wants energy and will do what it can to get that energy. If that means taking it from someone else, that is what the body will do. What choice does it have? The person's brain has decided there is no energy so it stops the body from doing what it needs to in order to obtain energy. The body is forced to act on i's own.

What that translates to is what I call "Zombies". People who unknowingly want or need energy. Zombies will follow you everywhere in order to try and take your energy. They don't know what they are doing intellectually. Their brain is unaware. But their body keeps following and following and following.

Some people may have a hard time believing that. This is where your kung fu scholar training starts. Do you know of anything in the world that might corroborate what I just said? Sure you do.

Don't priests stay by themselves all the time? Aren't monks secluded all the time? Aren't mystics and magicians supposed to be solitary people? All of those people are associated with high energy. The priest with high holy energy, the monk with high energy, and the mystics and magicians with high magical energy.

All of those people are solitary hermits because if they go out in public, people will steal their energy. It is such hard work to build it up that after awhile, you become very protective of it. A Zombie can suck all the energy out of you in 5 minutes.

I hope I am not saying too much. On top of the Zombies who unknowingly suck your energy, you have evil people who knowingly suck the energy out of others. This is the origin of Vampire legends. Vampires do not suck blood. They suck the energy out of people. These evil people purposely seek out others in order to drain them dry of energy. I really do not like them at all. A Zombie is to be pitied because they do not know any better. The evil people are maliciously and knowingly hurting others.

I learned some of how the human body works on a very deep level. The discoveries to me are beyond my wildest imagination. It is nothing like how you read the human body works in an anatomy or medical book.

I have developed the ability to see how people move if that makes sense. I can tell if a person is a kung fu person by the way their body moves. I can diagnose problems in a person's body by watching them walk or move about.

[David82]

Thanks for the excellent response JohnnyMnemonic! You didn’t say too much, you gave me a great deal of interesting info. I previously haven’t though of a connection between energy vampires and internal artists. While we are on the topic of energy, how would you associate energy (more precisely the possession of high energy) and luck? Would you say that someone with high energy could attract more things that they want (i.e. have better luck)?

P.S. For everyone else, I’m still very curious as to what other regular practitioners have gained from internal practice.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Johnny: Interesting post! Is it your experience that you can equally defend yourself, energetically, from the intended or unintended assaults by those seeking your energy? Although i perceive the same concepts you describe, i rely on different terminology..

Have you ever met a "natural ground", someone that, through no specific intent or training, acts like a lightning rod, grounding/draining your energies very quickly? I have little understanding of "natural grounds", but i am fascinated (and a little spooked) by their effect.. I have only met 2 and one of the 2 was confirmed by my mentor, he said, just avoid, they generally mean no harm.. from my experience, they have few friends or relationships.. people just tire quickly in their presence, which is unfortunate because it can set-up conditions for emotional issues for the oblivious afflicted..

Be well..

[David82]

Hey TaiChiBob, I have met one or two people in my life around whom I felt tired. However, I believe they were more along the lines of an emotional vampire than a natural ground. When I was getting along with the above person, nothing was wrong. However, when the relationship went downhill, I constantly felt drained while in the presence of the person and for some time afterwards, even though on the surface we supposedly patched things up.

Places can have this affect as well. For example, hospitals (not all but most) tend to leave me drained and with a headache after I’m done visiting. I don’t know how much of it is psychological and how much is “energetic”.

Also, if anyone has anyone else has any benefits they gained from internal arts, let me know.

[YiLiQuan1]

Internal Arts profess to give their practitioners mental and physical benefits. I'm greatly interested in what benefits do regular practitioners (not mythical masters from China) see within themselves.

Internal arts profess a lot of things, most of which are little more than fantasy...


Has Tai Chi (Ba Gua, Xingyi, etc.) made you be able to handle stress better? Be less anxious? Be more patient? Be able to concentrate for a longer period of time? Improved your mood?

No art can do this any better than any other art can... Further, minus some serious hormone level testing before, during, and after training, it'd be pretty hard to document these abstract benefits.

A person gets off their butt, goes out, does some type of exercise through movement, they will certainly be able to handle stress and anxiety better (already plenty of scientific evidence to support this), which will increase their ability to be patient and concentrate for longer periods of time. Through the release of simple endorphins, mood will be elevated... All of this can be obtained through any form of exercise, not just the mystical magical Internal Arts. Frankly, it's these kinds of claims that cause internal training to be laughed at so frequently these days... Well, that and the goofy people that support these claims...


Has it made a chronic illness go away? Helped recuperate from an injury? Allowed you to move better in general?

Again, just like normal ol' exercise, chronic problems can be recovered from through the invigoration of the entire body through regular work out sessions. Nothing special there... I lift weights, and that's done wonders for my herniated discs and arthritic knees...


Made you feel more confident in defending yourself?

If it's a martial art I'd certainly hope that at least the illusion of being able to defend one's self is present, if not the actual ability. All the folks doing new age Tie Chee in parks while wearing silky garments, all so they can reach a higher plane of consciousness, are wasting their time... Taijiquan was, is, and with a little luck will remain, a fighting art.


You mean can I fight with someone better. Maybe, maybe not. I am more confident in defending myself because I would probably never get in a fight. The Tai Chi has helped me to read people. I can talk them out of fighting.

If, after 10 - 15 years of training, you still don't know whether you could win a simple fight, you think you'll be able to talk your opponent down, and you see "zombies," you should seriously reconsider a) what alleged martial art you've been studying, and b) your world view.

There are no "energy vampires," and there are no "zombies." :rolleyes: Monks and priests stay away from others because often their vows require celibacy (and being around women makes that tough), poverty (easier to rely only on yourself when you don't have material things thrust in your face constantly), etc. "Magicians" and the like stay away from others because a) they don't really exist, b) most people realize this, and c) it's easier to be a make-believe "magician" when there aren't evil townsfolk trying to light you on fire. ;)

Enjoy.


what specific style you do.

Yiliquan - a combination of Baixingquan (a Northern Shaolin derivative), Shanxi Xinqyiquan, Yang Taijiquan, and Cheng Baguazhang. Been doing it since 1986. No magic powers, no "energy vampires," and best of all no "zombies." Just people with their brains engaged, and others not so much... ;)

[David82]

Hey YiLiQuan1, thanks for the reply. I also lift and do (did) a variety of different MAs. I suppose when I asked my question I thought of something such as Yoga.

Many people claim to have gotten benefits from Yoga that things like lifting and cardio will not do. As for me, whenever I have a nagging injury, yoga seems to take it away better than anything else.

Since many similar claims have been made about the internal arts, I wanted to ask people who have been doing the stuff on a regular basis about their experience.

As for energy vampires, I don’t know, I feel something around different people. It may be explained from a psychological viewpoint or an “energetic” one. I don’t know but am open to both explanations.

What do you mean there are no Zombies??? Now how will I explain the mental state of half of my friends…

[brianK]

In my experience, psychic vampirism, whether intentional or not, seems to be a genuine phenomenon. A wiccan girl I used to go to acupuncture school with once told me a defense: while meditating, visualize a sphere of golden light eminating from qi hai dan tian while a tube of purple light rises up your central core and out of your bai hui point. A little new agey for my taste, and more related to kundalini than qigong, but the girl did seem pretty tapped in to... something. Also in one of Shouyu Liang's qigong books he had a golden light mudra involving touching the index and pinky fingers together while a sphere of golden light is visualized eminating from the dan tian.
On the topic of the thread, I've been in ma's a little over 10 years, ima's a little over 5 (Chen Taiji about 5, bagua about 3, xingyi for a little over a year). I almost never get sick these days, despite having been a pretty sickly kid. Also, my joints feel a lot better than in my Choy lay fut or karate/jujutsu days. Martially I feel I've gotten a lot more efficient, my projection has increased, and obviously my yielding skills have gotten better. All of this I think is a direct result of ima practice.

Regards,
Brian

[David82]

Hey briakK, thanks for the reply. Pretty cool info on the meditation/ visualization against psychic vampirism. So she was into Yoga kundalini stuff? Interesting. Good to hear that internal arts boosted your immune system and your joints.

[JohnnyMnemonic]

Thanks for the excellent response JohnnyMnemonic! You didn’t say too much, you gave me a great deal of interesting info. I previously haven’t though of a connection between energy vampires and internal artists. While we are on the topic of energy, how would you associate energy (more precisely the possession of high energy) and luck? Would you say that someone with high energy could attract more things that they want (i.e. have better luck)?


What do you mean by things? Luck as in finding a penny? I think that happens.

If you mean luck as in meeting good people, getting a good job, anything to do with people, the answer is yes. It is not luck. If you have good energy, people want to be your slaves. I find this ugly but that is what happens. People will do anything for you. Give you money, sex, lick your toes, anything.

You want to hear something embarrassing? I was at the grocery store one day. I live in a city that is almost taken over by asians. I was in the parking lot and an asian man was was being followed by a white woman. The asian man appeared to be supervisor or something for the store. The woman was a regular employee at the store. I watched them because something odd was going on.

The man is walking away as if trying to leave. The woman is following as if trying to prevent him to leave. Finally the man stops. Then the woman, in the middle of the parking lot, gets down on her knees right in front of the man. It looked like she was preparing to perform oral sex on him. It was not exactly the sex posture. She was pretending she was picking up something or some other reason to get down on the ground. Right at eye level with his groin.

The woman was a "Zombie". The Asian man had high energy. The white woman wanted that energy. She followed him for as long as she could, then she literally got down on her knees in front of him in the wide open public parking lot. She didn't care what it looked like. She wanted his energy.

From the perspective of the Asian man, that is luck. Everywhere you go, strange women will get down on their knees in front of him. His friends will call him lucky. But it is not luck. It is the energy that he has.


You can spot high energy people this way. If you see someone getting down on their knees in the vicinity of another person, the one standing has high energy. The one on the ground is trying to steal some of it. They don't have to have a malicious intent. If you asked them, they may not even know what energy is.

[JohnnyMnemonic]

Greetings..

Johnny: Interesting post! Is it your experience that you can equally defend yourself, energetically, from the intended or unintended assaults by those seeking your energy?

No. I don't believe there is a defense energetically. Unless you count making the other person sick as a defense. If you want to put your energy on them, or manipulate their energy, so they become sick and leave of their own accord, I guess that could be defined as an energy defense.

If someone wants to suck your energy, the only way to stop it is to leave the area, do something physical to interfere with them, or verbally distract them or interrupt their concentration. In my opinion.



Have you ever met a "natural ground", someone that, through no specific intent or training, acts like a lightning rod, grounding/draining your energies very quickly? I have little understanding of "natural grounds", but i am fascinated (and a little spooked) by their effect.. I have only met 2 and one of the 2 was confirmed by my mentor, he said, just avoid, they generally mean no harm.. from my experience, they have few friends or relationships.. people just tire quickly in their presence, which is unfortunate because it can set-up conditions for emotional issues for the oblivious afflicted..

Be well..

That is an interesting term. Natural ground. Much more polite and caring than calling someone a Zombie. No blame or judgement to it. I say Zombie because that is how they look and behave. Yes I have met them.

[JohnnyMnemonic]

Internal arts profess a lot of things, most of which are little more than fantasy...
Frankly, it's these kinds of claims that cause internal training to be laughed at so frequently these days... Well, that and the goofy people that support these claims...

Wow! I wondered when a negative person would show up.



Again, just like normal ol' exercise, chronic problems can be recovered from through the invigoration of the entire body through regular work out sessions. Nothing special there... I lift weights, and that's done wonders for my herniated discs and arthritic knees...

You are completely wrong. Tai Chi and weight lifting are so far apart as to not even be in the same room. You will give yourself health problems later in life with weight lifting. Don't beleive me. Look for yourself. Look at old weightlifters. Do they live a long time? Do they look healthy? I thought they usually died young. Their bodies usually sag and become fat in old age.

On the other hand, a Tai Chi guy will look like he is 50 when he is 80. I see old chinese people all the time that look 50 and then they start talking or walking and you can tell they must be at least 80.



If it's a martial art I'd certainly hope that at least the illusion of being able to defend one's self is present, if not the actual ability. All the folks doing new age Tie Chee in parks while wearing silky garments, all so they can reach a higher plane of consciousness, are wasting their time... Taijiquan was, is, and with a little luck will remain, a fighting art.

You are wrong. You are judging these people through your needs. You need to be able to fight and beat up other people. Other people do not have the same need. As long as you think Tai Chi is only for fighting, that is all you will ever find. You are not looking for anything else. If you are looking for a chevy, you don't see the fords, or toyotas or mitsubishis. You have tunnel vision and are blind to anything but what you want to see.




If, after 10 - 15 years of training, you still don't know whether you could win a simple fight,

Have you ever had a teacher who instructed you on how to be humble? I think not. How many kung fu masters in a movie do you see standing on a table braying "I can beat all of you". I never saw that movie. The movies I saw, the master was quiet, shy, and sat in the back.


you think you'll be able to talk your opponent down,

I am not certain what you mean by "talking them down". I do this all the time. I don't know why it is hard to believe.

I was at the park the other day. A large black man and a young white kid were playing around at kung fu. The black guy had a kung fu stance and the white kid was trying to get in. The black guy was playing with the white kid. The white kid did not have a clue. I watched a little and walked away. The black guy knew that he was playing games with the white guy. I didn't really want to see that.

I try to avoid going out in public because I have trouble with people. My energy draws people like a magnet. Zombies follow me everywhere. What is just as much of a problem is tough guys. Which is really funny in a way.

I am an older, overweight white guy. If you saw me you would not even look at me. I present no threat at all. Yet for some reason, if I go out in public, tough guys try to pick fights with me. It is my energy. They can feel it and like a dog they want to challenge me.

I was in the park with my dog. I am listening to some drummers and the black guy walks up to me. He was a big black guy. He starts talking about how someone he knew had a dog like mine. The dog barked at him and he picked it up and threw it.

The black guy was challenging me. He wanted me to say "Let me see you try that with my dog" or something like that. I just looked at him. I knew he wanted a fight. I run into people like him all the time. I just stood there.

He kept on talking about the dog and this and that. I said yes and uh huh and "that is interesting". The black guy really really wanted to fight. After about 5 or 10 minutes, he gave up and walked away. He had no choice. I never gave him anything that he could use to start a fight. He would have used even the smallest resistance or challenge to him as an excuse to fight. I didn't give it to him.

I talked him out of his need to beat up a total stranger. What I say is true and it works.



and you see "zombies," you should seriously reconsider a) what alleged martial art you've been studying, and b) your world view.

Zombie is a word that is familiar to people. Most people have seen a zombie movie. They know what a zombie looks like and how it moves. A person can easily visualize what a Zombie looks like. You can use it as a visualization tool, or you can reject and ridicule it. The choice is yours.

If you wish, I have a whole load of pictures of zombies. I don't know if they will mean anything to you. If you can't see the signs, I can't make you see them. It requires some experience in reading peoples bodies.


There are no "energy vampires," and there are no "zombies."

You are wrong. Roll your eyes all you want. Again I have pictures of both. It is easy. First we agree on a definition of vampire or zombie. Then I show you pictures. In my wide definition, any person sucking the energy out of another person, maliciously or not, is a vampire. I can post example pictures of this for the next year.



Yiliquan - a combination of Baixingquan (a Northern Shaolin derivative), Shanxi Xinqyiquan, Yang Taijiquan, and Cheng Baguazhang. Been doing it since 1986. No magic powers, no "energy vampires," and best of all no "zombies." Just people with their brains engaged, and others not so much... ;)

That is sad. You have never had a real teacher. Or your instructors must wonder where they went wrong with you.

I think I must have been blessed.

Are any of your teachers real chinese? People may get angry with me, but in my experience it is very rare to meet white people who are anywhere near as good at teaching this stuff as real chinese people from china.

[YiLiQuan1]

Wow! I wondered when a negative person would show up.

I'm negative because I don't believe in "energy vampires" or "zombies?" You betcha... :rolleyes:


You are completely wrong. Tai Chi and weight lifting are so far apart as to not even be in the same room.

Of course you're correct... Using the body to move with resistance of some kind absolutely is 100% unlike using the body to move with resistance of some other kind...


You will give yourself health problems later in life with weight lifting. Don't beleive me. Look for yourself. Look at old weightlifters. Do they live a long time? Do they look healthy? I thought they usually died young. Their bodies usually sag and become fat in old age.

Two names - Joe Weider and Jack LaLanne. They sure did go to pot as they aged, didn't they... Oh, wait... That was someone else, since they were both in incredible shape in their later years. :rolleyes:


On the other hand, a Tai Chi guy will look like he is 50 when he is 80. I see old chinese people all the time that look 50 and then they start talking or walking and you can tell they must be at least 80.

You watch too many movies... I've seen plenty of martial artists, internal and external, and age is age. It isn't the years, it's the mileage. I've seen old Asian folks who've lived hard lives looking older than their years, and I've seen pampered Westerners look amazing when they were elderly. Tie Chee doesn't change anything regular ol' exercise wouldn't change.


You are wrong. You are judging these people through your needs. You need to be able to fight and beat up other people. Other people do not have the same need. As long as you think Tai Chi is only for fighting, that is all you will ever find. You are not looking for anything else. If you are looking for a chevy, you don't see the fords, or toyotas or mitsubishis. You have tunnel vision and are blind to anything but what you want to see.

No, I'm judging the needy people by the modality they employ to obtain their desired results. It's much less about mythical benefits ascribed to the partial practice of a martial art, and more about finding an appropriate outlet for their interests. Flaky hippie wannabes want the mystical, semi-spiritual benefits martial practice has been reputed to provide, except the origin of said benefits are avoided entirely (i.e. stress, combat, and physical exertion). I've even heard some of these Tie Chee goons say that sweating was unhealthy... :rolleyes: Only if you're trying to keep the weight on...


Have you ever had a teacher who instructed you on how to be humble? I think not.

There's a difference between being "humble" and failing to speak the truth. HAve you ever had a teacher who taught you how to have the courage to speak up when others were blatantly wrong? Or are you just another politically correct obsequious nutter trying desperately to hang onto an Asian fantasy of magical kung fu masters and metaphysical powers?


How many kung fu masters in a movie do you see standing on a table braying "I can beat all of you". I never saw that movie. The movies I saw, the master was quiet, shy, and sat in the back.

And now we begin to see the problem... You mistake movies for reality. If your version of reality is based on Hong Kong cinema, I suspect you believe only Chinese can truly do martial arts and understand the "spirit" of kung fu, and that those spectacular jumps aren't done with wires... :rolleyes:


I am not certain what you mean by "talking them down". I do this all the time. I don't know why it is hard to believe.

When someone intent on doing you bodily harm is charging down the alley at you, talk him down. Go ahead, chat him up and see if, as he's pile driving you into the pavement, your inability to fight really helps. Remember, the "martial" part of "martial arts" implies conflict and combat. It ain't all incense, meditation and pretty thoughts...


I was at the park the other day. A large black man and a young white kid were playing around at kung fu. The black guy had a kung fu stance and the white kid was trying to get in. The black guy was playing with the white kid. The white kid did not have a clue. I watched a little and walked away. The black guy knew that he was playing games with the white guy. I didn't really want to see that.

What does your story have to do with anything? Further, why did you have to describe them via race? I get a kick out of that subtle implication... Additionally, the story didn't make any sense to begin with...


I try to avoid going out in public because I have trouble with people. My energy draws people like a magnet. Zombies follow me everywhere. What is just as much of a problem is tough guys. Which is really funny in a way.

Uh, yeah... :rolleyes: You avoid going out in public because you have trouble interacting with folks who are firmly grounded in reality. Zombies don't "follow" you, nor do "tough guys."

[YiLiQuan1]

I am an older, overweight white guy.

Which leads me to believe your avoidance of weight lifting has more to do with being out of shape than a genuine, scientifically documented potential for long term disability (which, I might point out, documentation completely debunks). Stay away from the vampires and zombies and lift some weights. You'd be surprised at how good you'll feel...


If you saw me you would not even look at me. I present no threat at all. Yet for some reason, if I go out in public, tough guys try to pick fights with me. It is my energy. They can feel it and like a dog they want to challenge me.

Or maybe it's your personality grating on them as you insist non-real things are real...? Just a thought. ;)


I was in the park with my dog. I am listening to some drummers and the black guy walks up to me. He was a big black guy. He starts talking about how someone he knew had a dog like mine. The dog barked at him and he picked it up and threw it.

Ever think your appearance draws attention to you? Maybe the guy really didn't like your dog. Maybe "anything." I suspect it had more to do with the guy's personal background and baggage than your "energy" drawing him to you.

And why's it got to be a "black" guy? Again with the Freudian slip bit... :rolleyes:


The black guy was challenging me. He wanted me to say "Let me see you try that with my dog" or something like that. I just looked at him. I knew he wanted a fight. I run into people like him all the time. I just stood there.

Sure, sure... You took the moral high ground. The way things have been painted in your post, the big bad black man came up to the poor, helpless, chubby white guy, and tried to intimidate him. But, with your zuper kung fu skillz, you managed to avoid a fight through nonconfrontation... Or maybe you were just to scared to do anything like stick up for yourself?


He kept on talking about the dog and this and that. I said yes and uh huh and "that is interesting". The black guy really really wanted to fight. After about 5 or 10 minutes, he gave up and walked away. He had no choice. I never gave him anything that he could use to start a fight. He would have used even the smallest resistance or challenge to him as an excuse to fight. I didn't give it to him.

Yep, you've got mad kung fu master skillz. You are superior to the angry black man. Chubby white guy 1, angry black man 0. :rolleyes:


I talked him out of his need to beat up a total stranger. What I say is true and it works.

You didn't "talk him out" of anything... You stood there, did your best to be nonconfrontational, probably more out of fear than anything else (since you wouldn't have the confidence to protect yourself due to the lack of fight training you seem to have), and he ultimately got bored and left. Granted, it may have been an ego issue on his part, but it wasn't your kung fu master/jedi knight mind tricks that made him go away... He lost interest, nothing more.


Zombie is a word that is familiar to people. Most people have seen a zombie movie. They know what a zombie looks like and how it moves. A person can easily visualize what a Zombie looks like. You can use it as a visualization tool, or you can reject and ridicule it. The choice is yours.

What I reject is the idea that you are so full of goodness and light, qi and enlightenment, that you see the rest of the world in terms of vampires and zombies. I realize you aren't implying zombies in the sense of Romero zombies, but the implication that you are so much better than everyone else is ridiculous. It sounds much more like an overweight, out of shape, older man hiding in a fantasy where he's more powerful than what reality would have everyone believe.


If you wish, I have a whole load of pictures of zombies. I don't know if they will mean anything to you. If you can't see the signs, I can't make you see them. It requires some experience in reading peoples bodies.

Yeah, whatever... :rolleyes:


You are wrong. Roll your eyes all you want. Again I have pictures of both. It is easy. First we agree on a definition of vampire or zombie. Then I show you pictures. In my wide definition, any person sucking the energy out of another person, maliciously or not, is a vampire. I can post example pictures of this for the next year.

And these pictures you've taken display the energy being sucked out of others? That energy is something we can document, quantify, and measure, right? Or maybe it's just an emotional, psychological reaction to people you don't like? I suspect that's more accurate than the explanation that there are people who "suck" energy from others...


That is sad. You have never had a real teacher. Or your instructors must wonder where they went wrong with you.

Yeah, you're right... I'm the one that's completely off my rocker by calling you out on your Dungeons and Dragons-esque world view. My teacher(s) are therefore also suspect because they didn't teach me to be similarly blinded to reality. Sure, why not? That's way easier than acknowledging that your perceptions are completlely out of line with what the rest of humanity knows of how the world works...


I think I must have been blessed.

If by "blessed" you mean "divested of all common sense, having same replaced with an exaggerated sense of the fantastic," then yes, you've been blessed... ;)


Are any of your teachers real chinese? People may get angry with me, but in my experience it is very rare to meet white people who are anywhere near as good at teaching this stuff as real chinese people from china.

Your on the money with that one... Only the Chinese can truly understand, perform, and teach kung fu. Neat how my prediction earlier in this post is confirmed by your comment here...

You live in a fantasy world, your perceptions are based upon movie storylines, and you are a closet racist with an "asian-ophile" trend. Drop the pretense and get a grip on the throat of reality.

[charyuop]

One of the Yang ancestors (don't remember which one sorry) was said to be very hard and bad tempered (he was said to have killed a student of his). Tai Chi never helped his temper or aggressivity.

If Tai Chi or any other Internal/External arts help your character to be built/modified in my opinion depends on your personality. For some people making puzzles is relaxing just the same and if you ask them I am sure they say it helps them to face new stresses and so on.

As per the "Chi" energy, I don't know what to tell you. I have been practicing Tai Chi for almost 1 year (on and off, depending on how busy I am and weather coz I don't like doing it at home) and never felt anything close to what people define energy. I think I am getting close to believe that it is all a creation of people's mind. I have always been sceptic and that I guess takes me away from the right state of mind of feeling it.

Just my opinion of course...

[yangyang]

As per the "Chi" energy, I don't know what to tell you. I have been practicing Tai Chi for almost 1 year (on and off, depending on how busy I am and weather coz I don't like doing it at home) and never felt anything close to what people define energy. I think I am getting close to believe that it is all a creation of people's mind. I have always been sceptic and that I guess takes me away from the right state of mind of feeling it.

Just my opinion of course...

I believe you are wrong there, you can definitely feel the energy in the body after "correct" TCC practice. No offense, but you just may need some more experience. Also, people in other arts besides TCC also can feel the body energy that is present. Try doing some Zhang Zhuan, you will feel it. I guarantee you. :) :)

[JohnnyMnemonic]

Of course you're correct... Using the body to move with resistance of some kind absolutely is 100% unlike using the body to move with resistance of some other kind...

If you wish to create an exhaustive comparitive list of what Tai Chi and weightlifting do, some of the things on the list will be found in both Tai Chi and weighlifting. More importantly, some of the things on the list will not be found in both Tai Chi and weightlifting.



Two names - Joe Weider and Jack LaLanne. They sure did go to pot as they aged, didn't they... Oh, wait... That was someone else, since they were both in incredible shape in their later years. :rolleyes:

I knew you would say Jack Lalanne. Did I tell you I am somewhat psychic? I write these messages and then I hear you guys replying while I go about my day. I don't hear the message word for word. What I get is something related to what you will say. I knew yesterday or the day before, I forget, you were going to talk about Jack LaLanne.

Think about this. How old is Jack LaLanne? 80 or so right? That means that he grew up in about 1940 or 1950.

Do you think that a man growing up in 1940 is the same as a man growing up in 2000? Do you think American culture has changed from 1940 to 2000? You might want to ask yourself, out of thousands and thousands of weightlifters, why can you only name two that look OK? I can walk up and down the street and get about 20 chinese people who are 80 and look 50. On my block. These chinese people go to the community center every morning at 8 oclock and do Tai Chi.



Flaky hippie wannabes want the mystical, semi-spiritual benefits martial practice has been reputed to provide, except the origin of said benefits are avoided entirely (i.e. stress, combat, and physical exertion).

If you say so.



I've even heard some of these Tie Chee goons say that sweating was unhealthy... :rolleyes: Only if you're trying to keep the weight on...

You really have no clue. I hope you don't have people listening to you. You could cure your ingnorance very easily by spending a few days reading some books. Or you could keep displaying your ignorance to the people you meet.

I will display your ignorance right here for everyone to see. Why does a human being sweat? What does sweating do to the body. If you have a brain in your head, you will wonder why I am asking such an "obvious" question. If you don't have a brain, please go to the dictionary and look up the word "trap". It is spelled "T" "R" "A" "P".



There's a difference between being "humble" and failing to speak the truth. HAve you ever had a teacher who taught you how to have the courage to speak up when others were blatantly wrong? Or are you just another politically correct obsequious nutter trying desperately to hang onto an Asian fantasy of magical kung fu masters and metaphysical powers?

Yes there is. No. No.



And now we begin to see the problem... You mistake movies for reality. If your version of reality is based on Hong Kong cinema, I suspect you believe only Chinese can truly do martial arts and understand the "spirit" of kung fu, and that those spectacular jumps aren't done with wires... :rolleyes:

So arrogant. You don't see yourself do you? You are the bad guy. You are the bad guy that looks at Jet Lee and says "He is a midget". You are the bad guy that looks at Chuck Norris and calls him a weenie. You are the bad guy that looks at Bruce Lee and says "he is just a skinny asian".

Now knowing how people like you think, instead of admitting your behavior resembles the loud mouths in the movies pushing the kung fu master, you will say "Oh look. He thinks he is Bruce Lee, Chuck Norris, or Jet Li".

I really don't understand your motivation. Do you want what I say to be true, but you are afraid to beleive me because I might trick you? Are you jealous that I might really know what I say I know? Are you full of hormones and you want to be challenging and angry?



What does your story have to do with anything? Further, why did you have to describe them via race? I get a kick out of that subtle implication... Additionally, the story didn't make any sense to begin with...

My story is proof that talking stops violent people.

I knew 2 or 3 days ago you would remark that I called him black. I answered you back then so let me go ahead and type it out for you since I guess you didn't hear me.

When describing people, despite all the blather about stereotypes etc, people do get your meaning. If I said a man was bothering me, it could be any man. What if it was a 4 foot 3 inch midget who was bothering me? Then what I did would mean nothing. A midget is not threatening.

When I say a big black guy, I feel that most people will understand what I mean. A big black guy like a football player or basketball player. Tall, 250 lbs, lots of muscle. It is a description that is factual. It is only turned into something dirty by people like you.



Uh, yeah... :rolleyes: You avoid going out in public because you have trouble interacting with folks who are firmly grounded in reality. Zombies don't "follow" you, nor do "tough guys."

OK. Believe what you want.

[JohnnyMnemonic]

Which leads me to believe your avoidance of weight lifting has more to do with being out of shape than a genuine, scientifically documented potential for long term disability (which, I might point out, documentation completely debunks). Stay away from the vampires and zombies and lift some weights. You'd be surprised at how good you'll feel...

Believe what you wish.



Or maybe it's your personality grating on them as you insist non-real things are real...? Just a thought. ;)

Sure it is possible. Except for one thing. I do not talk to these people. How do they know I have a grating personality?



Ever think your appearance draws attention to you? Maybe the guy really didn't like your dog. Maybe "anything." I suspect it had more to do with the guy's personal background and baggage than your "energy" drawing him to you.

I admit that is possible. I don't think that was the reason. But it is possible.



Sure, sure... You took the moral high ground. The way things have been painted in your post, the big bad black man came up to the poor, helpless, chubby white guy, and tried to intimidate him. But, with your zuper kung fu skillz, you managed to avoid a fight through nonconfrontation... Or maybe you were just to scared to do anything like stick up for yourself?

That made me laugh. It is amazing how anything in the world can be made negative. Having a baby is making the world overpopulated. Having sex will give you AIDS. Giving money to poor people is enabling them to not get a job. Negative people can rephrase any act in the world in a negative way.

Sure I was scared. He was a big, 250 lb black guy with lots of muscles. It is called intelligence. You know what you are capable of and you judge the likely outcome of the fight. It was most likely he would have kicked my ass. I have no problem saying that. Maybe I don't like it, but that is how life is.

Do you watch fights? Do you know who Kazushi Sakuraba is? He is one of the best MMA artists on the planet. He is so good there was no one in his weight class left to fight him. So his handlers moved him up a weight class or two. He fought someone 40 pounds heavier than him and got his butt beaten. He was in the hospital for 3 days.

If a professional fighter gets his butt beat and put in the hospital for 3 days by a man who is bigger and heavier than he is, what is the liklihood that I, a person with a life who only trains for an hour or so a day, would end up in the hospital for 3 days if I tried to fight a 250 muscular man? Why would I do something so stupid? Because I am afraid you will make fun of me? I will let you have your fun. I hate to pay hospital bills. I am also not very fond of pain.



You didn't "talk him out" of anything... You stood there, did your best to be nonconfrontational, probably more out of fear than anything else (since you wouldn't have the confidence to protect yourself due to the lack of fight training you seem to have), and he ultimately got bored and left.

Isn't that what I said I did?



What I reject is the idea that you are so full of goodness and light, qi and enlightenment, that you see the rest of the world in terms of vampires and zombies. I realize you aren't implying zombies in the sense of Romero zombies, but the implication that you are so much better than everyone else is ridiculous.

Why? You do not beleive me. No one else here believes me. That means that I AM better than everyone here doesn't it? I know or can do things that no one else here knows or can do. Or maybe they are hiding?



It sounds much more like an overweight, out of shape, older man hiding in a fantasy where he's more powerful than what reality would have everyone believe.

You really shouldn't waste your time. I told you that I have people like you try to provoke me daily. You are trying to provoke me. You are proof of what I say. Wake up and look at what is going on here. Why do you think I called myself overweight? Because I know you. I know that you will take that comment and do exactly what you are doing now.



And these pictures you've taken display the energy being sucked out of others? That energy is something we can document, quantify, and measure, right? Or maybe it's just an emotional, psychological reaction to people you don't like? I suspect that's more accurate than the explanation that there are people who "suck" energy from others...

You have to learn to interpret what you see. If you don't believe in it, then I would have to teach you what you are looking at. The pictures do not have lables saying "Vampire sucking energy out of innocent victim".



You live in a fantasy world, your perceptions are based upon movie storylines, and you are a closet racist with an "asian-ophile" trend. Drop the pretense and get a grip on the throat of reality.

You are a hater that knows commercial kung fu. You have no knowledge of what real chinese old time ancient kung fu is about. You have no knowledge of what real kung fu can do for you. You seem not to have been exposed to the concept of a scholar warrior.

I think you are probably a street fighter or a ring fighter or a policeman or a military man. Maybe a gang member. An angry person who wants to hurt people. You look for an outlet for your physical aggression by hurting whoever your target is. I know you and I know people just like you.

You are like the policeman at my kung fu skill. He was a tall white guy that looked like a hippie. He worked undercover. He came into school one day bragging. He was chasing a suspect and he was getting away. So the undercover kung fu guy kicked the runner in the knee. You can imagine what that did. The runner went to the hospital with a messed up leg.

You should have seen the cop. He was all dancing around and proud of himself. He had broken or messed up the leg of someone who didn't know kung fu at all with his kung fu training. He was the man. He was a star.

What he was was a pathetic individual with a small ego. He was a childish sadist with no thought of the ramifications of his actions. He messed up a person's leg, maybe permanently, just so he could come back to class and brag about what he did.

I got in trouble over that. I said he was a loser and that doing that was wrong. Boy did the instructor get mad! He literally told me I should leave if I thought that what the policeman did was wrong. That was one of the incidents that began to show me my instructor was a sadist that enjoyed hurting people. That was a real bummer.

[JohnnyMnemonic]

One of the Yang ancestors (don't remember which one sorry) was said to be very hard and bad tempered (he was said to have killed a student of his). Tai Chi never helped his temper or aggressivity.

There is always an exception to the rule.



As per the "Chi" energy, I don't know what to tell you. I have been practicing Tai Chi for almost 1 year (on and off, depending on how busy I am and weather coz I don't like doing it at home) and never felt anything close to what people define energy. I think I am getting close to believe that it is all a creation of people's mind. I have always been sceptic and that I guess takes me away from the right state of mind of feeling it.

Just my opinion of course...

You need to grow up. I don't mean that in a harsh way. I mean you need to grow up so that many years have passed you by. Then you will realize that one year of anything means nothing.

Didn't your Tai Chi instructor tell you not to expect any results for 3 years? Almost every book I ever read said not to expect anything until the end of 3 years.

[travelsbyknight]

Xing Yi and Ba Gua movements realign your skeleton and relax the muscles. This is one of the most instrumental ways to rehabilitate sports related injuries. I do Ba Gua and Xing Yi chi gung specifically to treat injuries and to help prevent them through proper body mechanics. But mostly though I study Hung Gar. I have bum elbows which are starting to get better with regular treatment of dit da medicine and chi gung.

Hermits and other "mystics" who seclude themselves in the mountains are actually weaker than people that don't. Hear me out before you jump, Johnny. These individuals are purposely avoiding society and their problems by running away to the mountains. The reason they find enlightenment so easily is because THERE'S NO ONE AROUND TO TAKE THEM OUT OF THEIR GOOD MOOD AND CHALLENGE THEIR BELIEFS. Then one day they come down from the mountain and realise all the women and good food they've been missing and then enlightenment goes out the window. I don't know if the above makes any sense but let me try to sum it up in a couple of sentences. Human beings were meant to interact with each other and can't survive without doing so. To not interact would be inhuman.

TAke it all with a grain of salt.

[charyuop]

Didn't your Tai Chi instructor tell you not to expect any results for 3 years? Almost every book I ever read said not to expect anything until the end of 3 years.

That is good to know. I don't keep a closed mind whatever belief I might grow into. I practice Tai Chi because I like it. The slow movements and the exercise of the joints are very healthy and even without feeling the Chi, Tai Chi Chuan can still be an effective self defence martial art....if one day the awareness of Chi will come into me I will gladly accept it, otherwise I will go on practicing the way I do now. it is not a contest and I am in no hurry ;)

[YiLiQuan1]

More importantly, some of the things on the list will not be found in both Tai Chi and weightlifting.

I never said they were identical. I said that the benefits you've been touting can also be gained through other exercise modalities. Tie Chee isn't as incredibly unique and life changing as you'd have people think.


I knew you would say Jack Lalanne. Did I tell you I am somewhat psychic? I write these messages and then I hear you guys replying while I go about my day. I don't hear the message word for word. What I get is something related to what you will say. I knew yesterday or the day before, I forget, you were going to talk about Jack LaLanne.

So now you're psychic, yet you know absolutely nothing about me... Your comments further down in your post illustrate how very little you know about me, despite your so-called "psychic" abilities. I submit that this shows yet another bit of your personality, further defining the fantasy world you live in.


1) Do you think that a man growing up in 1940 is the same as a man growing up in 2000? 2) Do you think American culture has changed from 1940 to 2000? 3) You might want to ask yourself, out of thousands and thousands of weightlifters, why can you only name two that look OK?

1) What's your point? Yes, they are the same. Humans haven't changed in the last 60 years...

2) Again, what's your point? Has "culture" changed? Certainly. Has physical science, specifically exercise science, changed in that time? Certainly. However, the physiological reaction of the human body to exercise has not.

3) I only name two because I only know those two by name. I don't keep a running tally of all the older men and women who, through regular, rigorous exercise, have bettered their lives. There are plenty. I'm sure doctors will readily support exercise, whatever the form, and I'm positive that, barring specific structural issues, they'll never dissuade someone from lifting weights because it's "bad for them" as you claim...


I can walk up and down the street and get about 20 chinese people who are 80 and look 50. On my block. These chinese people go to the community center every morning at 8 oclock and do Tai Chi.

Good for you. There's also the interesting genetic tendency of Asians, Pacific Islanders, etc., to appear younger than their chronological age well into their later years... I suspect this has absolutely nothing to do with the issue, right? :rolleyes: My wife is 3 months younger than I am, but people regularly claim she is at least 10 years younger than her age. Why would that be, especially when she doesn't practice Tie Chee? ;)


You really have no clue. I hope you don't have people listening to you. You could cure your ingnorance very easily by spending a few days reading some books. Or you could keep displaying your ignorance to the people you meet.

I will display your ignorance right here for everyone to see. Why does a human being sweat? What does sweating do to the body. If you have a brain in your head, you will wonder why I am asking such an "obvious" question. If you don't have a brain, please go to the dictionary and look up the word "trap". It is spelled "T" "R" "A" "P".

Okay, I'll let you spring your psychic trap... Sweating is the simple process by which the body regulates its own temperature. Moisture on the skin aids in the reduction of heat in the body as air passing over the moisture (sweat, in this case) more rapidly cools the body. Now, where's your "trap?" How is sweating "bad" for you, and overheating (heat exhaustion, heat cramps, heat stroke) is not?


Yes there is. No. No.

So you've never had someone instill in you the warrior ethos that is inherent in martial training? Sad, really, that you've been limited to only the "scholar" aspect you cite so often... It seems then that your "martial arts" aren't very martial at all...


So arrogant. You don't see yourself do you? You are the bad guy. You are the bad guy that looks at Jet Lee and says "He is a midget". You are the bad guy that looks at Chuck Norris and calls him a weenie. You are the bad guy that looks at Bruce Lee and says "he is just a skinny asian".

You know this about me how, exactly? Your "psychic" delusions again? I'm only the bad guy to you because I'm challenging your skewed perception of reality... :rolleyes:


Now knowing how people like you think, instead of admitting your behavior resembles the loud mouths in the movies pushing the kung fu master, you will say "Oh look. He thinks he is Bruce Lee, Chuck Norris, or Jet Li".

People like me? You know nothing about me. Your assumptions, "psychic" or not, are wholly incorrect. And you're continuing in your movie references... Have you ever really met one of these kung fu masters in real life? Please, name names...


I really don't understand your motivation. Do you want what I say to be true, but you are afraid to beleive me because I might trick you? Are you jealous that I might really know what I say I know? Are you full of hormones and you want to be challenging and angry?

My motivation is a lack of tolerance for people who make statements publicly, as you do, that fly in the face of common sense and scientific fact. It is a combination of statements like yours, and pathetic, dead training that has eroded the quality of Chinese martial arts specifically, and martial arts in general, and continues to degrade what people far better than either of us have worked entire lifetimes to achieve.

If you could prove any of your claims, I'm sure the scientific community would be astounded. You'd be a historical figure, for sure. But I doubt that you'd "stoop so low" as to have your "psychic" skills tested and evaluated (you're morally above that kind of cheapening of your skills, I'm sure) so that others could know the "truth." And I'm far too old to be motivated by excessive hormonal surges... :rolleyes:


My story is proof that talking stops violent people.

Your story is proof that you stood there and did nothing, hoping your potential assailant left you alone. For "talking" to be effective, you'd have to have taken an active part in the matter, which by your account you didn't. You stood there, giving nods and the occasional "oh really," and finally the man walked away. You did nothing.


I knew 2 or 3 days ago you would remark that I called him black. I answered you back then so let me go ahead and type it out for you since I guess you didn't hear me.

You answered me 2 or 3 days ago? Really? :rolleyes: I better go check my psychic answering machine... I haven't checked it lately... :rolleyes:


When describing people, despite all the blather about stereotypes etc, people do get your meaning. If I said a man was bothering me, it could be any man. What if it was a 4 foot 3 inch midget who was bothering me? Then what I did would mean nothing. A midget is not threatening.

But why does it have to be a "big black man" that is scary and threatening? Why couldn't you have just described him as X feet tall, XXX pounds? You bring race into it because it threatens you...


It is a description that is factual. It is only turned into something dirty by people like you.

Factual is "male, 6 feet tall, approximately 200 pounds." Emotional is "big, black man."

[YiLiQuan1]

Sure it is possible. Except for one thing. I do not talk to these people. How do they know I have a grating personality?

You're the one that lives in a world where people know things without direct experience or evidence. You tell me why they seem to single you out...


Sure I was scared. He was a big, 250 lb black guy with lots of muscles. It is called intelligence. You know what you are capable of and you judge the likely outcome of the fight. It was most likely he would have kicked my ass. I have no problem saying that. Maybe I don't like it, but that is how life is.

Then why do you study martial arts? It seems that your 10 - 15 years of training has been wasted if you can't feel confident in your ability to at least hold your own, if not win outright. One man, based on size and weight alone, most likely untrained, and you can't feel that you would be capable of defending yourself... Speaks volumes of the training you've received from your esteemed Chinese masters, as well as volumes on their ability to fight as well...


If a professional fighter gets his butt beat and put in the hospital for 3 days by a man who is bigger and heavier than he is, what is the liklihood that I, a person with a life who only trains for an hour or so a day, would end up in the hospital for 3 days if I tried to fight a 250 muscular man? Why would I do something so stupid? Because I am afraid you will make fun of me? I will let you have your fun. I hate to pay hospital bills. I am also not very fond of pain.

You train for only an hour or so a day, for 10 - 15 years (off and on). That's not training, that's a hobby. It's no wonder you've never developed any real skill.


Isn't that what I said I did?

No, you said you were able to stop the fight by talking. That implies involved, active participation in the event. You didn't do that. You stood by, observing your own encounter almost as if a removed third party, and you hoped by not speaking up that your assailant wouldn't get angered and do you bodily harm. That's amazing weakness, that you couldn't even take an active role by engaging him in conversation about why he felt the way he felt... Instead, you just rolled up in a figurative ball and hoped the big, bad man would go away. You buried your head in the sand. The reality is that you're desperately lucky. My entire point was that if someone was really intent on doing you harm, your "talking" wouldn't stop that at all... In this case, you didn't even talk. You stood still, nodded occasionally, and prayed for mercy.


Why? You do not beleive me. No one else here believes me. That means that I AM better than everyone here doesn't it? I know or can do things that no one else here knows or can do. Or maybe they are hiding?

Um, no... What it means when everone else doesn't believe you is that there's every possibility you are the one that's wrong. Their not believing you does not, most assuredly, mean you are "better" than everyone.


You are proof of what I say. Wake up and look at what is going on here. Why do you think I called myself overweight? Because I know you. I know that you will take that comment and do exactly what you are doing now.

Okay, then tell me more about myself... Describe me with your psychic skills.


You are a hater that knows commercial kung fu. You have no knowledge of what real chinese old time ancient kung fu is about. You have no knowledge of what real kung fu can do for you. You seem not to have been exposed to the concept of a scholar warrior.

Again, please use your psychic abilities to describe me, my training, my art, my teacher. Go ahead... I'll enjoy this, I'm sure.


I think you are probably a street fighter or a ring fighter or a policeman or a military man. Maybe a gang member. An angry person who wants to hurt people. You look for an outlet for your physical aggression by hurting whoever your target is. I know you and I know people just like you.

You "know" me? I think not. Please, apply your "psychic" abilities and ascertain more about me...


What he was was a pathetic individual with a small ego. He was a childish sadist with no thought of the ramifications of his actions. He messed up a person's leg, maybe permanently, just so he could come back to class and brag about what he did.

Perhaps he was glad that he was able to stop a criminal and help society in a greater context through having done so.


I got in trouble over that. I said he was a loser and that doing that was wrong. Boy did the instructor get mad! He literally told me I should leave if I thought that what the policeman did was wrong. That was one of the incidents that began to show me my instructor was a sadist that enjoyed hurting people. That was a real bummer.

Or perhaps it showed your inability to grasp a larger picture. Who was the "loser?" The cop for doing his duty in the least dangerous way (he tripped him... He could have shot him, tackled him, pushed him into the street, etc., all far more injurious than simply tripping him), or the criminal?

[JohnnyMnemonic]

Hermits and other "mystics" who seclude themselves in the mountains are actually weaker than people that don't. Hear me out before you jump, Johnny. These individuals are purposely avoiding society and their problems by running away to the mountains. The reason they find enlightenment so easily is because THERE'S NO ONE AROUND TO TAKE THEM OUT OF THEIR GOOD MOOD AND CHALLENGE THEIR BELIEFS.

You equate mood, which is a measure of emotion, to spiritual enlightenment or attainment. I did not realize the two were related.

Your statements depend on your viewpoint. Anything in the world can be described from a variety of viewpoints. I claim that a mystic or hermit attains a rarefied and refined sensitivity that is only possible because of their seclusion. If they come into contact with low people, the low people drag them down from their hight point. My way of looking at it says the hermits are high people and the other people are low people.

You say the hermit is hiding. That is a negative statement. Does a person hide from a rabid dog? Or do they intelligently stay away from it because it will bite them and make them sick? The description is subjective. It depends on what type of judgement you wish to put on the person. I am saying that regular people are like a rabid dog to a refined person. The refined person avoids them from common sense and intelligence, not because he is protecting a fantasy world as you claim.

Your way of looking at things says the hermit is a low person while the other people are higher persons. But if you look at the factual situation, your opinion is wrong. The hermit has a concrete higher attainment of spirituality. He is a more sensitive person. He has a talent that the low people do not. Maybe the regular people are more talented in other areas, but in the area of personal refinement, the hermit does have higher attainment.



Then one day they come down from the mountain and realise all the women and good food they've been missing and then enlightenment goes out the window. I don't know if the above makes any sense but let me try to sum it up in a couple of sentences. Human beings were meant to interact with each other and can't survive without doing so. To not interact would be inhuman.

TAke it all with a grain of salt.

You lost me as soon as you said women. You don't understand enlightenment. Or maybe you are being funny and I am taking what you say seriously. On a regular guy level, yes that is funny and we can nudge each other and wink about it. But on a level of serious discussion about enlightenment, there is a reason that holy people have a reputation of avoiding women.

Your grain of salt comment is making me laugh. To see people like you who honestly believe that I am someone who needs to be talked back to reality.......To me, you are an ignorant person who has been filled with lies by people who want to deny you the opportunity to gain power.

[YiLiQuan1]

But on a level of serious discussion about enlightenment, there is a reason that holy people have a reputation of avoiding women.

So you're a self-proclaimed psychic, closet racist (both in your support of the theory that only Chinese people can understand, perform, and teach kung fu, as well as in the way you choose to describe people who threaten you), and misogynist that advocates social seclusion in order to attain some mystical state...

Yeah, you've got a good hold on the real world. :rolleyes:

[JohnnyMnemonic]

Tie Chee isn't as incredibly unique and life changing as you'd have people think.

Yes it is.



So now you're psychic, yet you know absolutely nothing about me... Your comments further down in your post illustrate how very little you know about me, despite your so-called "psychic" abilities. I submit that this shows yet another bit of your personality, further defining the fantasy world you live in.

I submit that you need to remove the pole from your behind and learn to smile once in awhile.



1) What's your point? Yes, they are the same. Humans haven't changed in the last 60 years...

There is no point in talking to you. You are unable to think or you are being purposefully obtuse.



Okay, I'll let you spring your psychic trap... Sweating is the simple process by which the body regulates its own temperature. Moisture on the skin aids in the reduction of heat in the body as air passing over the moisture (sweat, in this case) more rapidly cools the body. Now, where's your "trap?" How is sweating "bad" for you, and overheating (heat exhaustion, heat cramps, heat stroke) is not?

U need to read a chinese medicine book.



My motivation is a lack of tolerance for people who make statements publicly, as you do, that fly in the face of common sense and scientific fact. It is a combination of statements like yours, and pathetic, dead training that has eroded the quality of Chinese martial arts specifically, and martial arts in general, and continues to degrade what people far better than either of us have worked entire lifetimes to achieve.

No. It is the focus of aggressive and small minded individuals like yourself on the violent fighting aspect of martial art that is diluting the effectiveness of the martial arts in the west.



If you could prove any of your claims, I'm sure the scientific community would be astounded. You'd be a historical figure, for sure.

People are too small. They are all like you. You won't talk to me to see if what I know has any validity. You just keep hammering away at what kind of person I am or how what I say is impossible. You and they are not interested in what reality is. To me it appears that envy makes you attack people that say they know something that you do not.



Your story is proof that you stood there and did nothing, hoping your potential assailant left you alone. For "talking" to be effective, you'd have to have taken an active part in the matter, which by your account you didn't. You stood there, giving nods and the occasional "oh really," and finally the man walked away. You did nothing.

You are vile. And you revel in it. You think it gives you power to be abusive to other people. What it does is make you sick. Hope you enjoy it. You will pay in the long run.

[JohnnyMnemonic]

Then why do you study martial arts? It seems that your 10 - 15 years of training has been wasted if you can't feel confident in your ability to at least hold your own, if not win outright. One man, based on size and weight alone, most likely untrained, and you can't feel that you would be capable of defending yourself... Speaks volumes of the training you've received from your esteemed Chinese masters, as well as volumes on their ability to fight as well...

You train for only an hour or so a day, for 10 - 15 years (off and on). That's not training, that's a hobby. It's no wonder you've never developed any real skill.

No, you said you were able to stop the fight by talking. That implies involved, active participation in the event. You didn't do that. You stood by, observing your own encounter almost as if a removed third party, and you hoped by not speaking up that your assailant wouldn't get angered and do you bodily harm. That's amazing weakness, that you couldn't even take an active role by engaging him in conversation about why he felt the way he felt... Instead, you just rolled up in a figurative ball and hoped the big, bad man would go away. You buried your head in the sand. The reality is that you're desperately lucky. My entire point was that if someone was really intent on doing you harm, your "talking" wouldn't stop that at all... In this case, you didn't even talk. You stood still, nodded occasionally, and prayed for mercy.

Um, no... What it means when everone else doesn't believe you is that there's every possibility you are the one that's wrong. Their not believing you does not, most assuredly, mean you are "better" than everyone.

Okay, then tell me more about myself... Describe me with your psychic skills.

Again, please use your psychic abilities to describe me, my training, my art, my teacher. Go ahead... I'll enjoy this, I'm sure.

You "know" me? I think not. Please, apply your "psychic" abilities and ascertain more about me...

Perhaps he was glad that he was able to stop a criminal and help society in a greater context through having done so.

Or perhaps it showed your inability to grasp a larger picture. Who was the "loser?" The cop for doing his duty in the least dangerous way (he tripped him... He could have shot him, tackled him, pushed him into the street, etc., all far more injurious than simply tripping him), or the criminal?


Your words expose you for what you are. You are evil. Any person can read what you wrote above and clearly see that your intent is evil. You wish to cause the maximum pain and/or harm that you can. Why? Why do you feel the need to do that? Is it a job for you? Do you have an ego problem? Abusing people makes you feel bigger?

I have come here and posted my opinions. At no time did I make long abusive attacks on you or anything about you. I remarked that I felt your training was lacking or that your ideas were wrong. I did not go out of my way to be hurtfully abusive.

You do know that everyone that reads that must be thinking to themselves, "what kind of mean and hateful person would say those things"? I think that the people here are adults. This is not your high school gang where you are kicking the small kid and all your buddies are clapping their hands and saying "get him". We are supposed to be adults who are above that. I hope.

[YiLiQuan1]

Yes it is.

Well, glad it's changed your life so much... However, your singular experience does not the standard make.


I submit that you need to remove the pole from your behind and learn to smile once in awhile.

I smile quite often, especially when reading your posts. :D


There is no point in talking to you. You are unable to think or you are being purposefully obtuse.

The only thing I'm being, purposefully, is skeptical of any claims you make, especially since you won't recognize that you appear to be alone in the support of your theories.

Please, clarify for me, beyond the obvious technological advances made over the last 60 years, how are people significantly any different than they were at the early part of the 1900s?


U need to read a chinese medicine book.

I have. You need to read a Western medicine book. Natural processes are not bad. Certainly, there are excessive conditions that exist, indicative of other underlying problems, but sweating caused by exercise is not now, never has been, nor ever will be "bad for you."


No. It is the focus of aggressive and small minded individuals like yourself on the violent fighting aspect of martial art that is diluting the effectiveness of the martial arts in the west.

Again, you rely on your psychic powers to determine what kind of person I am, right? I disagree with you, and I refuse to relent in that disagreement (as my theories are based in reality, and yours are based in fantasy), so therefore I'm aggressive and small minded. Not hardly.

And how, pray tell, does practicing the fighting aspects of martial arts dilute their ability to be applied? That fails the simplest logic test available...


You won't talk to me to see if what I know has any validity.

You have yet to say anything that supports, validates, or otherwise outlines in a scientific, factually based fashion, the outrageous claims you make. When you do, I'll address your comments as you present them, as I have done with the comments you've made thusfar.


You just keep hammering away at what kind of person I am

I hammer away at what you present here. I stick to the image you portray based solely upon your comments in this thread and others. You are the one that has made forays into my personal life, taking liberties with defining what kind of person you think I am in real life...


or how what I say is impossible.

Your claims are impossible. Show me evidence to the contrary, something besides your opinions (based on what you've seen in movies or read in books), something based in fact.


You and they are not interested in what reality is.

While I realize perception = reality, the perception of the larger group defines the larger view of reality. Your personal perception of zombies and vampires around every corner may be your reality, but it hardly makes it "real" to the rest of the world. Things that are testable, quantifiable, reproduceable, define reality, not the individual ravings of a person with extreme belief systems.


To me it appears that envy makes you attack people that say they know something that you do not.

Again with the personal attack... What do you think I envy? Your inability to stand up for yourself? Your inability to use your MARTIAL art the way it was intended? Your insistence on racial labeling to justify your fears? Hardly... :rolleyes:


You are vile. And you revel in it. You think it gives you power to be abusive to other people. What it does is make you sick. Hope you enjoy it. You will pay in the long run.

How will I "pay?" How am I "vile" because I won't give in and accept that your skewed perception does not define my reality, nor the reality of others? You're the one upon which the burden of evidence rests... You claim things, so prove them. Otherwise, crawl back into the clover-laden meadow in which you meditate upon pleasant thoughts as you separate yourself from us "lower" people...

[YiLiQuan1]

Your words expose you for what you are. You are evil. Any person can read what you wrote above and clearly see that your intent is evil. You wish to cause the maximum pain and/or harm that you can. Why? Why do you feel the need to do that? Is it a job for you? Do you have an ego problem? Abusing people makes you feel bigger?

How am I evil? What is it that I'm doing that violates moral law? Because I won't stand by, suspending my common sense in order to allow you to dance around claiming all manner of nonsensical abilities?

I find it particularly interesting that you have yet to step up and defend your claims to psychic abilities... You're avoiding that one quite nicely. ;)


I have come here and posted my opinions. At no time did I make long abusive attacks on you or anything about you.

You've called me small, evil, and vile. That's pretty abusive. The worst I did was rephrase a description of you that you provided... I've posted my opinions, which are contrary to yours but supported with facts; yours are not and you continually avoid doing so, expecting instead that we all accept your authority "just 'cuz." Not likely to happen...


I remarked that I felt your training was lacking or that your ideas were wrong. I did not go out of my way to be hurtfully abusive.

Believe me, if I wanted to be hurtful and abusive, you'd certainly know it by this point. I've simply taken what you've said, separated each point and rebutted it. I have called no names, as you have done. I have simply pointed out the blatant flaws in everything you've said up to now.


You do know that everyone that reads that must be thinking to themselves, "what kind of mean and hateful person would say those things"? I think that the people here are adults. This is not your high school gang where you are kicking the small kid and all your buddies are clapping their hands and saying "get him". We are supposed to be adults who are above that. I hope.

Yeah, you're right... I'm just a high school kid. That's why I won't buy your BS hook, line and sinker. It's because I'm just too "low" to know better, right? :rolleyes:

[JohnnyMnemonic]

Hello Mr YiLiQuan1. I regret to say I can no longer deal with you.

Your heart is full of hate. You have so much hate that it has given you diarrhea. In your reponses to my posts, you do not respond to what I say, you defecate on what I say. You take each thing I say and you very carefully defecate all over it.

If I say something about myself, you defecate on it. If I mention my opinion, you defecate on it. If I say that someone else told me something, you first defecate on them, then you defecate on what they said.

You and I do not need to speak to each other. You need to go to the drugstore and buy something to cure your diarrhea.

I would recommend a church or a group of friendly people. You have overexposed yourself to martial arts so much that you have become a monster that most good people would shun.

I wish I could have done something to turn you away from the dark side. I guess I am not strong enough yet.

[YiLiQuan1]

Hello Mr YiLiQuan1. I regret to say I can no longer deal with you.

We all make choices, don't we?


Your heart is full of hate. You have so much hate that it has given you diarrhea. In your reponses to my posts, you do not respond to what I say, you defecate on what I say. You take each thing I say and you very carefully defecate all over it.

No, my heart is actually not full of hate, but I certainly have a low tolerance level for BS. I further have a self-professed inability to suspend my common sense and good judgement to accept your claims of paranormal abilities, especially when said abilities fly in the face of scientific evidence.

I respond directly to what you say, asking questions and demanding proof. You avoid the answer and instead demand that I (and others) accept what you say "just because." I do not "defecate" on what you say, I simply dissect it and respond to each and every piece separately. You have yet to respond to anything I've asked... For example, use your psychic powers to describe me, as thusfar you've been completely incorrect. Or was that the result of your psychic description? If it was, it's proof that you are not psychic as you previously claimed...


If I say something about myself, you defecate on it. If I mention my opinion, you defecate on it. If I say that someone else told me something, you first defecate on them, then you defecate on what they said.

Your imagery is entertaining, but inaccurate. You make a claim, I dispute it. I ask for clarification, description, detail, proof, while you skirt the issue, avoiding providing what was asked for, and instead make a personal attack. Which of the two of us has the bigger problem?


You and I do not need to speak to each other. You need to go to the drugstore and buy something to cure your diarrhea.

You might consider a similar trip to obtain something to cure your delusions... ;)


I would recommend a church or a group of friendly people. You have overexposed yourself to martial arts so much that you have become a monster that most good people would shun.

So you've called me evil, vile, small, low, and now I'm a monster that "good people" would shun. You certainly paint an interesting picture, though wholly inaccurate.


I wish I could have done something to turn you away from the dark side. I guess I am not strong enough yet.

Whatever... Please, address the questions asked of you. Any other responses, especially personal attacks on me, are nothing more than continued evidence of your inability to back up what you say.

Enjoy your Sunday. ;)

[greendragon]

Whoa ! Back the F*** up ! Johnny, someone in a park picked up your dog and threw him and you didn't kick his a** ? If that doesn't get your intent fired up then you should forget martial arts and start eating meat.
and yiliquan1, what the 7734 is tie chee ? (without using the word hippie in your definition)

[YiLiQuan1]

what the 7734 is tie chee ? (without using the word hippie in your definition)

In my perspective, as well as that of others with whom I've spoken on the subject, there are several "variants" of any given martial art. In any situation, there are two extremes and one "balance," right? In the case of Taijiquan it breaks down as follows:

Genuine Taijiquan - taught, trained, and preserved as the fighting art it originally was; additional non-physical benefits are recognized as secondary developments, and are not the focus of training.

Tai Chi Chuan - taught and trained primarily as a fitness modality, with an emphasis on integrating "body and mind;" acknowledges origin as a fighting art, but does little, if any, training beyond gentle push-hands drills.

Tie Chee(se) - taught as a method of self-cultivation, focusing heavily on the meditational aspects as intended for developing metaphysical powers and enlightenment; denies origins of art as a fighting method, and instead ascribes the original intent of its creation as a way to better the self (which is in direct contradiction to actual history).

That's just an example, overall... There are certainly gradations between each benchmark from one extreme to another, but I'm sure you get the gist of it from the explanation above.

Enjoy.

[lunghushan]

It does seem to be hard finding actual combat taiji, people actually fighting with taiji.

A lot of the problem seems to be that most teachers do not know the actual applications of the taiji and instead draw from other martial arts for the applications, or they try to make them up.

Compound that with the problem that each branch of taiji has different forms, and different applications, and there aren't any standards. It is unfortunate there are no standards and it's so fragmented.

If you were to take one kind of taiji and try to practice with others from another school I have no idea how that would work since each teacher or group leader would have their own ideas.

I've been looking for a place to practice around Seattle that seems a bit open in what they do but haven't found any place that is willing to be flexible in what they do.

[YiLiQuan1]

It does seem to be hard finding actual combat taiji, people actually fighting with taiji.

I don't think most people are even aware of the potential... I seriously believe that at least 90%, if not more, of Taiji players are completely ignorant of the combative value of the art.


A lot of the problem seems to be that most teachers do not know the actual applications of the taiji and instead draw from other martial arts for the applications, or they try to make them up.

From my experience with other martial arts, most of them don't know what's going on in the other forms either... It's a rarity to have someone really capable of dissecting forms/kata, and still another thing to make that breakdown work against a non-resistant opponent...


I've been looking for a place to practice around Seattle that seems a bit open in what they do but haven't found any place that is willing to be flexible in what they do.

What is it, specifically, that you're looking for?

[lunghushan]

What is it, specifically, that you're looking for?

Well basically I guess, a class that has CMA partner work without enforcing any style. I found somebody in Bothell to work with, so for example, I would punch and he would do his move, and we would trade. That seemed to work okay but he would want me to do his style, which I didn't really like. I tried before to do partner practice with somebody else once and he also took the teacher tack rather than just a practice partner.

I guess maybe finding something like this isn't going to happen.

[YiLiQuan1]

Well basically I guess, a class that has CMA partner work without enforcing any style. I found somebody in Bothell to work with, so for example, I would punch and he would do his move, and we would trade. That seemed to work okay but he would want me to do his style, which I didn't really like. I tried before to do partner practice with somebody else once and he also took the teacher tack rather than just a practice partner.

I guess maybe finding something like this isn't going to happen.

The downside to just "training" with a friend is that, especially if they do something different, at some point you're going to have to give in and do their stuff so that they can get something out of it... Otherwise, it's a one-sided session, and that doesn't help the "out" partner develop.

I forget if you said how long you'd trained, but you might consider finding a school similar to what you've done before and joining there. That'd at least keep things "in the family" in a sense, and you can still practice what you've done previously, with similarly oriented students, as well as expand your information base... I doubt you'll find someone who'll just let you come in to hang out, train, cross arms with students, all while giving nothing back to the students you train with in return (not meaning $$$ here, either).

[lunghushan]

The downside to just "training" with a friend is that, especially if they do something different, at some point you're going to have to give in and do their stuff so that they can get something out of it... Otherwise, it's a one-sided session, and that doesn't help the "out" partner develop.


I don't think I'd agree with that. For example, if from a punch, if this guy did an aikido style throw, and in exchange from a punch, you did a karate style throw, why would you have to do his style? You are just being ukes to each other. This particular guy had a lot of Aikido in his background and I'm not really into Aikido.

The reason I quit practicing with him is he couldn't just trade techniques. He would want to teach me his technique and he would want to learn my technique, so out of a 2 hour practice session, 90% of it was talking and I got about 10 minutes of actual practice.


I forget if you said how long you'd trained, but you might consider finding a school similar to what you've done before and joining there. That'd at least keep things "in the family" in a sense, and you can still practice what you've done previously, with similarly oriented students, as well as expand your information base... I doubt you'll find someone who'll just let you come in to hang out, train, cross arms with students, all while giving nothing back to the students you train with in return (not meaning $$$ here, either).

I don't understand what you mean by giving back. It would seem that students would want to practice their techniques against somebody from another style.

It really seems most of it is the $$$ thing plus an ego thing, I guess. It seems that the instructors just want to make their money off of teaching forms for years. They say it is because you have to learn proper mechanics and all that but most of the applications aren't different just because the form is different.

I'd try to find another related style but look around Seattle for taiji and each instructor not only teaches their own version but their own applications and requires you to do it their way with their own shen fa (body movement), emphasis, etc. And if you don't want to do it exactly their way you can't train with them. Personally I don't like what I've seen from these places, and they do way too much forms work.

So I think the only solution probably is to move someplace and study with somebody you don't think does things wrong, I guess.

[YiLiQuan1]

I don't think I'd agree with that. For example, if from a punch, if this guy did an aikido style throw, and in exchange from a punch, you did a karate style throw, why would you have to do his style?

Because often, in order to practice certain drills that are very style specific, and require that the "uke" have a fair grounding in the drill to remain safe, it will necessitate learning that new drill "their way."

When I was in Japan, I had a friend with whom I would "trade" information. I taught him Yiliquan, he taught me Modern Arnis. It's one thing to fight against another person, quite another to work drills and exercises. I eventually just focused on learning Modern Arnis, which allowed him to have a practice partner against whom to practice his Modern Arnis techniques...


You are just being ukes to each other. This particular guy had a lot of Aikido in his background and I'm not really into Aikido.

That's another good example... Aikidoka practice their techniques with a certain tempo, a certain amount of give and take in order to gradually develop their timing, distance, etc. If someone who isn't an aikidoka tries to train with an aikidoka, especially a less experienced one, it'll prevent at least the aikidoka from developing along aikido lines... Not necessarily a bad thing, mind you, just that if developing aikido is the other guy's goal, he's not going to get what he wants out of the exchange...


The reason I quit practicing with him is he couldn't just trade techniques. He would want to teach me his technique and he would want to learn my technique, so out of a 2 hour practice session, 90% of it was talking and I got about 10 minutes of actual practice.

Yeah, get two martial artists together and a conversation is bound to break out!


I don't understand what you mean by giving back. It would seem that students would want to practice their techniques against somebody from another style.

If someone comes to a school with a teacher and 10 students (for example), that teacher is there to convey information to the students, and the students are there to get that information. If that someone comes in, not wanting the information, nor holding the same goals that the other 10 students want (that is, learning the art that school teachers), and only wants to cross arms to develop his own skills, then alll that someone does is interfere with the goals of the students... He gives back little, especially to junior students who are still building a foundation in their particular art.

There's absolutely nothing wrong whatsoever with testing one's skills against another art, whether it's in a resistant, noncompliant manner or in a cooperative one. Both are beneficial. However, when both person A and B desire advancement and development in arts X and Y, they are going to be counterproductive to the other's development. Cross-training and personal skill testing are fine, but they require a firm grounding in basic (and intermediate and advanced) technique.


It really seems most of it is the $$$ thing plus an ego thing, I guess. It seems that the instructors just want to make their money off of teaching forms for years. They say it is because you have to learn proper mechanics and all that but most of the applications aren't different just because the form is different.

I can't speak for other schools or instructors, but I know that that isn't the case with our group... We make absolutely no money from our students; they pay their tuition directly to the school we rent space from, and we never see a dime of it. Our senior instructor and I pool our funds into a "kitty" from which we draw to pay for supplies, expenses, etc.


I'd try to find another related style but look around Seattle for taiji and

1) each instructor not only teaches their own version but their own applications and

2) requires you to do it their way with their own shen fa (body movement), emphasis, etc.

3) And if you don't want to do it exactly their way you can't train with them.

4) Personally I don't like what I've seen from these places,

5) and they do way too much forms work.

Well,

1) That's going to be the case, no matter with whom you train... Your training partner is going to have things he wants to work on, so it's kind of the same thing, really...

2) Well, they're teaching their style (one way or another), not yours... How could they teach your style and your shen fa?

3) That's jacked up, but in an arrogant fashion it's understandable... In a sense, and I don't mean this in a negative light, it's the same position you're taking - if you can't do what you want to do, the way you want to do it, you won't do it (study at their school) at all.

4) I have yet (after living here for 3+ years) to actually get out and about up there. I've got it on good authority that Andy Dale's training is top notch, and I've heard good things about a few other CMAists up there whose names escape me currently. Then again, I've seen a lot of crap down this way though...


So I think the only solution probably is to move someplace and study with somebody you don't think does things wrong, I guess.

Sillier things have happened... My kids' godfather moved from Lincoln, NE to Omaha, NE to train with Sifu Starr after being convinced our training was better than what he was doing at the time. He had no real job prospects, no real attachment to Omaha, but he pulled up stakes and moved anyway.

Good luck in your search. You're welcome to come down and check us out anytime...

[lunghushan]

I have nothing against Andy Dale. He's an extremely nice guy and has always answered my questions and never got mad at me or tried to put me down.

However, if his training is 'top notch', then I'm afraid somebody's idea of martial arts training is seriously skewed. I went to his classes for about a month before it became obvious that he couldn't hurt a fly.

http://www.wuji.com/images/videos/Liang%20Yi%20Quan.wmv
http://www.wuji.com/images/videos/Bagua%20Clip.WMV

Yeah I don't know if I'll ever get down there. Maybe if you guys post a few clips up on the web it will convince me. :)

[mawali]

goyz,

Who is a modern day representative of genuine taijiquan?
We all know the tai chee(se) and others but where are the gen u wine teachers we all talk about. Other than our teachers, can we count the real mc coy with our fingers?

[qiphlow]

doc-fai wong

[YiLiQuan1]

doc-fai wong

Um, though I haven't seen him do Taijquan per se, at the 1990 or 1991 AAU Chinese Martial Arts Division National Championships I was able to watch him doing push hands with his son... Looked like a lot of staged, half-limp, no body action, choreographed ka-ka.

I had the chance to cross hands with the #3 Chen style competitor in Japan a few years back, and though his body felt like a coiled spring during push hands, he had little, if any, ability to "fight back." My push hands ability isn't all that great, but I was able to easily sense, react, and respond to his actions...

Personally, I'd love to see the major Chen style players (the actual Chen family folks) in person, but since it costs a "2 major organ" minimum to attend their seminars, I don't see that happening any time soon... I'm not broke, just morally and ethically opposed to paying through the nose for martial instruction (even used car dealers allow test drives before you buy... ;) ).

[qiphlow]

not saying this just because he's my teacher, but dfw has quite a bit of taiji skill as far as i can tell. granted, i've only been doing taiji for 9 years, but i've pushed with both dfw and a few of his senior students. you can also see it in his forms.