Good training in China

[Flying-Monkey]

Does anyone know any good companies that organizes training in China?

[wiz cool c]

http://www.metal-tiger.com/Wu_Tang_PCA/BeijingTrip2005.html here is a trip in december

[Shaolinlueb]

there's the company that does shaolin trips in the past couple issues of kung fu magazine. i dont know if they still advertise in there. might have to buy a back issue. the last shaolin special or something.

[Mengcunman]

does it have to be Shaolin ?

or may it be Mizong, Liuhe, Pigua or Baji ?


For those last i can help you out.

[monkeyfoot]

just get a flight out there

travel to the 'obvias' places and ask around.

I hate all these arranged 'china trips' costing like £2000 for 10 days. I spent £1,500 and spent 4 months in china.

and of course it will be hard if you cant speak mandarin, but neither could I.

craig

[BoulderDawg]

just get a flight out there

travel to the 'obvias' places and ask around.

I hate all these arranged 'china trips' costing like £2000 for 10 days. I spent £1,500 and spent 4 months in china.

and of course it will be hard if you cant speak mandarin, but neither could I.

craig

Now this is not Paris or Amsterdam we are talking about here.

I think someone would have to be nuts to just show up in China by themselves.

Also, you could probably find a family or something to take you in but still living on less than $700 a month is spreading it thin. My understanding is than training alone to westerners is very expensive.

[Reverend Tap]

there's the company that does shaolin trips in the past couple issues of kung fu magazine. i dont know if they still advertise in there. might have to buy a back issue. the last shaolin special or something.
Here's their website: http://www.shaolinkungfutour.com/home.htm

I contacted them about price a while ago. Taking the long-term class for a year and a half, including meals/hotel (automatically figured into the total cost) and airfare (which I added in) looks like about $10,000. I didn't ask about shorter-term classes. Also, if you do the shaolin training (they also offer wudang and chen-style taiji, for which this does not apply), some degree of Chinese language is included.

[Shaolinlueb]

yes reverend tap thats it.

im only assuming you want shaolin since you posted in the shaolin forum.

if you want good martial arts, try looking in hong kong, taiwan, or even singapore/malaysia.

[unkokusai]

Now this is not Paris or Amsterdam we are talking about here.

I think someone would have to be nuts to just show up in China by themselves.


..........................

Why not?

[Shaolinlueb]

you'd be nuts to show up in any foreign country where you dont speak the language. there are people in every country who will take your money and not give two ****s about you.

[unkokusai]

you'd be nuts to show up in any foreign country where you dont speak the language. there are people in every country who will take your money and not give two ****s about you.


Isn't that potentially every country?


And are you saying you would never go to a country where you don't speak the language?

[BoulderDawg]

Isn't that potentially every country?

And are you saying you would never go to a country where you don't speak the language?

It's not the same at all.

To start with the basics: if I go to europe even though I might not be able to speak the language I can still read the street signs and convey to someone where I want to go. In China not only can I not speak the language but I cannot read a simple message.

Also in Europe if push comes to shove 90% of the time you can find someone who speaks english. In China by yourself there may be no one around if you find yourself in trouble.

Finally, the culture and, more importantly, the politics. By yourself in a country like China.............no way. It's asking for trouble. China is simply NOT just another country where they speak a different language.

All that said I would love to visit China and may do so next year with my Shao-lin group. By going with a group I know that if I wound up in jail at the very least I'd know what I was there for.

************

One more thing: I find it amazing that their government allowed you travel alone in China for 4 months. I know just from the meetings we are having about going next year that the China government has some very strict guidelines on visas.

[Shaolinlueb]

Isn't that potentially every country?


And are you saying you would never go to a country where you don't speak the language?


im saying that is every country? yes i am.
am i saying you shouldnt visit it? no. just be smart, learn some basics of language. or know someone there or have a hookup or something. or go with your significent other.

[unkokusai]

im saying that is every country? yes i am.
am i saying you shouldnt visit it? no. just be smart, learn some basics of language. or know someone there or have a hookup or something. or go with your significent other.



Fair enough then.

[unkokusai]

Finally, the culture and, more importantly, the politics. By yourself in a country like China.............no way. It's asking for trouble. .


I think you might be overdoing it a bit.

[Mengcunman]

just try to get in contact with a teacher before you leave.

indeed, buying a planeticket and go directly to a teacher is more cheap then those 'organised' tours.


just look around on forums... there are several people who went to China.
Use their knowledge... they know where the good teachers are and where not.

do your homework and try to know what you want to learn. Look for a teacher. Buy a planeticket ... and that is all.

[unkokusai]

To start with the basics: if I go to europe even though I might not be able to speak the language I can still read the street signs and convey to someone where I want to go. In China not only can I not speak the language but I cannot read a simple message. .


Seems like the problem is you, not the country. Anyway, there are loads of signs with names written out in roman letters around major transportation facilities and such, not to mention translated maps and all that, so it's not like you are on the planet Omicron Persiei 8 or something.

[unkokusai]

Also in Europe if push comes to shove 90% of the time you can find someone who speaks english. In China by yourself there may be no one around if you find yourself in trouble..


I'd bet you'd have an easier time finding someone in Beijing willing to speak to you in English than in Paris.

[monkeyfoot]

I had a re-entry visa, so I traveled to thailand for a month and then came back. I was also in hongkong for a week or so. Total time travel 3 months 3 weeks.

I remember getting off the plane in Beijing with my girlfriend, both 19 years old, being able to speak ZERO mandarin, looking around and thinking.....F^CK!

The only thing we knew was that in 1.5 months we wanted to be in hong kong and book a cheap flight to thailand. So basically, we had a big red lonely planet guide which was our bible (that I must admit, I DREAD TO THINK what might have happened if we didnt buy it!!!!) and we just looked where we wanted to go every so often and went.

Of course it was hard, IT WAS DAMMMMN HARD. Sometimes I think back to my trip and wonder how our characters were so strong at times. I sometimes felt overwelmed by the size of the country. Sometimes I felt like curling up in a ball after getting off a train at 3.00am (assuming we got the right stop) and having to walk for 2 hours to find a place to stay..... one morning we thought **** it and just sat in this tiny little tea shop and talked via hand signals with the owner.

Other times, all hell broke loose. We badly timed a trek out in Wulingshan, and ended up IN THE DARK, LOST, IN A MOUNTAIN RANGE. The only thing that got us back to wuling village was the sound of the stream. Our 2 torches had run out and we couldnt see 2 foot infront of us. Finally we got back to the main area (size of a footy pitch) with 5 different paths leading off in each direction. 1 path was to the village, 4 were back into the mountains. It was only when we shouted NI HAO to a guy who was on a motorbike that we actually got home. So 3 of us sped away through the trees. In retrospect, pretty scary that was!

Anyways, tours are fine. If you want an easier time where you have the security of a group them go for it. I wouldnt change my decision for the world. It has taught me so many things about myself and life. Things like, how nice it is to have a bed, or a toliet to crap in, or someone to talk to. But even if it was one of the hardest things I have done, its still the BEST experience I have ever had. When I saw some snotty traveller moaning that his 'soft sleeper' was 'too soft', I was just like, I wouldnt trade my rice sacks for the world...

craig

[BoulderDawg]

Seems like the problem is you, not the country.

Really? Well if you have a personal problem with me then send me a private message and tell me.

Otherwise, since you know so much tell us of your travels in China.

[unkokusai]

Really? Well if you have a personal problem with me then send me a private message and tell me.


I've already told you. I'm sure you saw it.

[BoulderDawg]

I've already told you. I'm sure you saw it.

The only thing I've seen concerning you is when I looked over some of your other posts and saw a long history of flaming other posters.

Anyway, this is my last post addressed to you. As mentioned if you have some sort of problem them tell me off the board.

[unkokusai]

The only thing I've seen concerning you is when I looked over some of your other posts and saw a long history of flaming other posters.

Anyway, this is my last post addressed to you. As mentioned if you have some sort of problem them tell me off the board.


Another problem for you. :rolleyes:


You seem so self-centered.

[omarthefish]

Now this is not Paris or Amsterdam we are talking about here.

I think someone would have to be nuts to just show up in China by themselves.

Also, you could probably find a family or something to take you in but still living on less than $700 a month is spreading it thin. My understanding is than training alone to westerners is very expensive.

lol.

Call me nuts.

Let's see...........

$700 > 4900 yuan = a hell of a lot of money in Xi'an. I live live a basic upper middle class white collar worker. Spacious 2 bedroom + a study flat. "Keep" a gorgeous girlfriend who doesn't need to work, eat most of my meals out, take reasonably frequent vacations or side trips out of town and it all runs about 4000 yuan/month.

$700/month is NOT spreading it thin. Training alone to westerners is only as expensive as you are willing to be suckered. This package:


Here's their website: http://www.shaolinkungfutour.com/home.htm

I contacted them about price a while ago. Taking the long-term class for a year and a half, including meals/hotel (automatically figured into the total cost) and airfare (which I added in) looks like about $10,000. I didn't ask about shorter-term classes. Also, if you do the shaolin training (they also offer wudang and chen-style taiji, for which this does not apply), some degree of Chinese language is included.

:eek::eek: :eek:

That's a RIDICULOUS sum of money. But hey, the world needs more suckers.

At that price, you'd be better coming in on a 6 month tourist visa, renewing it in Hong Kong when it expires and spending a year just training with some individual. You could pay him generously, take him out to meals and stuff and still come in WAY cheaper than that.

I would find spending 10 grand in one year on living and training here to be an interesting challenge. I'm sure if I thought about it I could figure a way to spend that much. I'd probably have to spend a lot of time at starbucks and taking pretty girls out to discos where the booze is priced for westerners though. Just living here normally, I'd be hard pressed to spend that much on my own.

[BoulderDawg]

I know the cost of living is not going to be high but how much is training at a top notch school?

A teacher with a good reputation is going to know there are plenty of rich Americans out there willing to pay big bucks.

[unkokusai]

I know the cost of living is not going to be high but how much is training at a top notch school?

A teacher with a good reputation is going to know there are plenty of rich Americans out there willing to pay big bucks.



.......................you guess :rolleyes:

[monkeyfoot]

yea living costs out in china isnt that expensive, you can strike a deal with whoever you are staying with and have the price greatly reduced. Its all about the season aswell, go in off-peak times and it will be even cheaper.

Some of the figures that I have seen are such a rip off.

[BoulderDawg]

If you're training with the best in the world then I would assume that you would pay these prices.

And those prices are cheap. I'm trying to imagine how it would be in baseball. If you were a young pitcher and wanted private instruction from Leo Mazzone my guess is that his price would be in the thousands per hour.

Or if you wanted to get some basketball tips from Michael Jordan......I'm not even sure you could do that at any price.

I guess the key is how much of a benefit will you get over training in the western world.

[beiquan]

I know the cost of living is not going to be high but how much is training at a top notch school?

A teacher with a good reputation is going to know there are plenty of rich Americans out there willing to pay big bucks.

everything in china is negotiable, if you are training with a real traditional teacher then chances are you will not be in a "school" situation with fixed tuition, you will make arrangements individually with your teacher. speaking a little chinese helps, after convincing one of my teachers there that i was a poor student he gave me a tuition rate that i later found out was more than half of what he charged most others.

omar is right on about what a ripoff those tours are. before you go to china to train you should really ask yourself how committed you are. many people there will try to give you the impression that in however long you're there, you will be able to completely master whatever they're teaching you, because they know that's what you want to hear. but if you are going there to learn a new art, a couple months or even a year is not really enough time.

[unkokusai]

If you're training with the best in the world then I would assume that you would pay these prices.


.................................................. ..................................

[Shaolinlueb]

but if you are going there to learn a new art, a couple months or even a year is not really enough time.


are you sure? jackie chan... i mean wong fei hung mastered drunken boxing in a year ;):p :cool:

yeah with tours you get the tour price unfortunetly, you pay for their man hours too. like i said, learn some basic chinese. research research research. and find a teacher or a hook up already there. i now have a couple contacts in china so i am lucky.

[BoulderDawg]

What would really be the benefits (other than a cultural one) of training in China?

I think it would be great if you could train with the top teachers but otherwise what can you get there that you cannot find here?

[Shaolinlueb]

What would really be the benefits (other than a cultural one) of training in China?

I think it would be great if you could train with the top teachers but otherwise what can you get there that you cannot find here?


being in china is the whole point. if you arent situated right in america moving somewhere for 3 months jsut isnt the same as it is in china. living cost in the parts where some of these teachers live is very expensive. in the long run you probably make out better with going to china.

plus its for the cultural experience.

[Reverend Tap]

lol.
$700/month is NOT spreading it thin. Training alone to westerners is only as expensive as you are willing to be suckered. This package:

:eek::eek: :eek:

That's a RIDICULOUS sum of money. But hey, the world needs more suckers.
Time to break out your calculator, friend.

Re-read my post, and you'll find that the $10,000 figure was for 18 months (not 12), includes room and board, and includes a guesstimate (tacked on later by myself) on airfare both ways. Not to mention that the training also includes Chinese language and TCM.

Not even taking out the airfare estimate (the original amount of which I've since forgotten), $10 grand over 18 months is $555 per month. A quick check at travelocity.com is currently giving me an airfare estimate in the ballpark of $1500. Subtract airfare, then, and the figure is about $472 per month, for everything.

Now, could you go and train cheaper? I have no doubt. And obviously I don't know what $472 per month would normally buy you there. But, especially for those of us who don't have any contacts in that part of the world and wouldn't be willing to just "drop in" and look for something, it's not really the ultimate ripoff deal you're making it out to be. If it were $833 per month just for kung fu training, as you apparently assumed, I would agree with you wholeheartedly.

[beiquan]

What China has that other places do not is a fairly large number of advanced practitioners of many different styles with 50+ years of traditional teacher-disciple training experience. These are the kind of folks that you want to learn from if you are going to go all the way over there, not some young guy dressed in a monk suit who learned his martial arts in some provincial physical education college. Most of these people are normal retired professionals who teach on the side for some extra money, not professional martial arts teachers who teach in large schools. I would bet that you could find more traditional martial skill in Beijing's Tiantan park than in Shaolin and Wudang combined.

[unkokusai]

What China has that other places do not is a fairly large number of advanced practitioners of many different styles with 50+ years of traditional teacher-disciple training experience. These are the kind of folks that you want to learn from if you are going to go all the way over there, not some young guy dressed in a monk suit who learned his martial arts in some provincial physical education college. Most of these people are normal retired professionals who teach on the side for some extra money, not professional martial arts teachers who teach in large schools. I would bet that you could find more traditional martial skill in Beijing's Tiantan park than in Shaolin and Wudang combined.


That's an excellent point.

[Mengcunman]

about costs in China

Where i go and train (Cangzhou - Tianjin region, Hebei) i pay 40 euro a day

If i stay more then 1 month its 500 euro a month
longer then 3 months 470 a month
llonger then a year was... if i remember correctly.... 425 euro a month


and besides this amount you don't need any money.
So that was easy for me. And i had someone with me all the time to help me out.


It is easy if you know people who know people.

[pdf108]

http://www.daoistkungfu.com

[wuseng33]

hey guys just started reading through this thread and had to throw in my 2cents i just moved to shanghai to live and study 2 weeks ago and have previously traveled a lot of china and stayed and trained in shaolin for a stint too. i have to agree that many of the people teaching in shaolin are just kids dressed as monks teaching modern wushu although the real deal is there but the chances of training with them are slim to none unless you know someone. i have recently started training chen taiji in a local park in shanghai and the shifu's instruction is awesome and i am able to train 7 days a week for as long as i like, shifu's like this often train people for a very small fee and sometimes for free, this the beauty of china if you know what you are looking for, have a sense of adventure there is no need for organized overpriced trips just step out of the square and enjoy yourself and you will come out a lot better for it.

[Kevin Huang]

Flying-Monkey, what's your PURPOSE in going to China?

If your goal is to improve your modern wushu skills so that you can improve your scoring when you enter forms competitions, China is a pretty good bet.

But if your goal is to learn the hardcore traditional kung fu that teaches you how to defend yourself effectively and be a better spiritual person, I wouldn't recommend China. I'd shop around and search for teachers who teach "the real stuff" when it comes to traditional kung fu.

[wudangzhang]

http://www.daoistkungfu.com

[monkeyfoot]

Now this is not Paris or Amsterdam we are talking about here.

I think someone would have to be nuts to just show up in China by themselves.

Also, you could probably find a family or something to take you in but still living on less than $700 a month is spreading it thin. My understanding is than training alone to westerners is very expensive.

Hi BoulderDawg

I can see you're point, but its not neccessarily nuts :). When I was 19 (2005) both myself and my girlfriend bought some cheap £250 flights to Beijing, literally just turning up. We had the big lonely planet bible with us and just went from there.

For one month we travelled independantly (booking train/bus tickets ourselves) across China north to south. Hell it was really difficult at times, but was worth all the effort in the end. And we didn't speak 1 bit of manadrin.

IMHO, if you want a challenge and have someone to go with.....just do it!

Craig

my trip, beijing, zhengzhou, kaifeng, Lowyang, shaolin, dengfeng, wuhan, yiching, wulingyuan, changsa, guillin, yangzhou, shezen, hong kong, beijing


http://file005b.bebo.com/large/2006/02/25/01/17894884a335534053b362319197l.jpg

[monkeyfoot]

ow sorry, just realised i posted months ago on this thread....whoops