External or Internal

[Hieu Nguyen]

I have a question maybe someone could help me decide? I have always been fascinated with the chinese styles of MA. I have researched a few of the styles like Eagle Claw, Wing Chun, Praying Mantis and they all to me are very good fighting systems, but I am nearly 50 now and I dont think an external art would actually be right for me.(maybe I'm wrong?)
I have looked into the internal arts like Hsing-I,
Bagua, baji, piqua and of course Tai-chi and It seemed that I really got a rush when I viewed these classes. But I wanna learn, but I dont really want to wait many years to be able to even use the basics in a real life situation. I know that the external would give me tools for self defense right away but my question is will the Internal such as Bagua also give me tools right away. I know that each person and circumstance is different but under normal circumstances and if I were to practice diligently at least 2-4 hours daily, would you say I would be prepared to defend myself and my family.
I was told that Bagua is a very advanced fighting system, and very combat orientated and reserved for the most advanced martial artists?
I am particularly fascinated with Bagua, now does bagua have any type of leg sweeps?

[TheBigToad]

This could be a long answer but I'll keep it short.
1. If you have a good internal arts school near you pick that.. you in a rare state of circumstances you really should take advantage of.

2. You 50, the internal arts will probably improve your physical being and health much faster then external and it will be better on your body.

3. Internal arts will give you applicable self defense as fast if not faster then external arts. Anyone who disagrees is obviously practicing the wrong way.

4. Bagua while it is more advanced in approach is not reserved for advanced martial students and neither should it be considered that way. That rumor was started by brainless people who didn't know any better.

The circle will always be, but you alone decides when it starts and where it ends.

[Hieu Nguyen]

You gave me some good insight into my quest.
But there is still something I'm interested in How about leg sweeps I really like them?

[count]

the answer to your question is many leg sweeps in bagua. ;)

Count

Kabooom.com (http://kabooom.com)

Chi Kung International (http://chikungintl.com)

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[The Willow Sword]

so you are 50. this is the time when your system is transitioning and becoming yin. i am sure that you are not as prone to get into it with anyone now that you are wise and experienced,,i think that hsingi would be good for you,,and pakua. as for leg sweeps,,i think that hsingi is dominant in the techniques you like. hsingi has this wonerfull stepping that when applied correctly can break shins and knees.
the sweeps are like focused hits to the points on the lower leg,,not these dragon tail sweeps that you can see coming. pakua is good to in sweeps but i associate pakua with more binding and grappling techniques. pakua is great,,you just adhere to the opponebt and take him for a tour of the sky and earth,,and it is a hard tour.
since as a 50 yr old body that is in shape one considers that your energy is now more conservative and focused,,where as the kung fu that you practice at a younger age is expansive and giving. work with your energies man,,,,,move slow act slow,,but dont think slow,,you will like it,,if you decide to continue doing external arts then i suggest southern praying mantis,,i think you will like that as well.
many respects, willow sword

Whatever you think i am or want me to be,,, i am.
oh and,,,Jesus loves you, everyone else thinks you are an a$.

[Hieu Nguyen]

So what is to old to practice external?
I've been told that internal stays with you your entire lifetime and external after you reach a certain age your body starts to deteriorate? I seen many Internalist practice their art and live a very long life with good health as well.

[This message was edited by socalimantis on 06-27-01 at 11:19 PM.]

[Eight Diagram Boxer]

I would recommend xingyi to you, it's internal, but you can apply it sooner than bagua. It's fairly easy to learn the forms, although they require hard work.

Knowing others is wisdom, Knowing the self is enlightenment- Lao Tzu

[Hieu Nguyen]

So if I were to practice diligently could I progress more rapidly I believe you get out what you put into anything in life.As far as finding the right MA I want something that will prepare me physically as well as internally,I want to be able to comfortably take care of my family against one or multiple attackers. Bagua interests me because of the Taoist philosphy it teaches.But I have heard about Taichi, Baji, Hsing-I, Piqua,san shou,shiao chiao my reading in these areas tell me these arts are internal also?????
In my area I am not aware of any teachers that teach these Internal Martial Arts.
Maybe someone could make me a recommendation?
I live in Southern California.

[count]

Southern California is a huge area. What part of SC are you in? If you are near the LA area, my teacher teaches baji/piqua, bagua, praying mantis, tai chi chuan. He is a shuai chaio man. Knows hsing-i (we don't have any students doing it right now) Click the Chi Kung International (http://chikungintl.com/) link to learn more. If you are in the San Diego area, he will be doing a 2 day workshop, July 21-22 at the Taoist sanctuary there. You can get info on the calander page of our site. Read what kevin already wrote. With the right teacher you will be able to use your martial art relatively quickly. It may take many years to master it but that doesn't mean you can't get the benefits soon. There are a few other teachers both here and in San Diego and in San Francisco I can highly recommend but if I did not think mine was the best I would not have spent the last 20 years trying to learn what he knows. You can e-mail me if you want the other teachers contact info or if you need directions to get to my class.

Count

Kabooom.com (http://kabooom.com)

Chi Kung International (http://chikungintl.com)

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[Hieu Nguyen]

So Count tell me How does your teacher conduct his classes?
Does he have you learn one style first or simultaneously being he teaches a few arts himself?
Is he qualified to teach them all?
I want a traditional teacher?
So what styles of Internal does he teach?
How bout Praying Mantis what type of Mantis does he teach?Mantis is another option I have opened up. But I know very little about but like their movements?

Who is your teacher and where does he teach?

[count]

Ok, if you haven't looked at the site and read his bio already, he has been doing martial arts all his life. Our Bagua is from the Yin Fu style from Gong Bao Tien to his teacher, Liu Yun Chaio. Our Mantis is from the 6 harmonies and 7 star variety, Also from Liu Yun Chaio and Su Yu Chang. Our Tai Chi is of the Yang style from the Tung version. We also play Chen style. He learned his Shuai Chaio from Sheng Dong Shang. There are a few that take more than one style at a time. Although his teaching methods have changed over the years, most students get a year or two of Longfist and basics before moving on. He is a very traditional teacher and very practical too. When I started with him in 1984, I did longfist for a year and then was allowed to take up Praying Mantis while I continued long fist. Usually, he would pick the style he felt would help the individual the most. He teaches everyone according to their personel strengths and weaknesses. Now, some come to the school and start right away learning bagua or something, but the serious ones always go back and get a grasp of the basics for foundation. We have a large group of Bagua students and another group doing only Baji/Piqua. There is another smaller group doing mantis now too. I follow one thing at a time myself. At my pace I don't think I could get everything he has to offer so I prefer to try and get some of it really well. You should come if possible and judge for yourself. When he demonstrates something is very easy to see his level of skill. He is more than qualified to teach the styles he does. You can see a list of styles and forms, bio and class times and location on the site. Any more questions and you can e-mail me directly.

Count

Kabooom.com (http://kabooom.com)

Chi Kung International (http://chikungintl.com)

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[wujidude]

In the LA area there are two teachers that come highly recommended (that I know about ; - ) )

Jason Tsou (Count's filled you in on him already) and Tim Cartmell (www.shenwu.com). There are others, obviously . . .

I also think that you really need to give art and teacher a chance . . . be willing to go practice an art with a teacher for a few months. At the beginning levels in bagua and xingyi, you won't be wasting time doing this. I would also say that the teacher is probably at least as important, perhaps more so, than your choice of art. Xingyi and bagua--and taijiquan for that matter--can all be made to work. The art will shape itself to your natural capacities, body type and level of intensity in practice. But a good teacher who cares about your progress as a student is going to be a pretty rare find, especially in the "internal" arts.

Mostly what I wanted to say, though, is kudos for being willing to take on another art and be serious about it at age 50. It's a very positive example for those of us looking ahead a decade or two . . . best wishes and good luck.

[count]

Now I know who you are. If you do not receive the e-mail I just sent you post here. I tried to e-mail you the last 2 times and your e-mail came back. Check your e-mail address in your preferences. The one you just sent had a different one than the one abov e.≈

Count

Kabooom.com (http://kabooom.com)

Chi Kung International (http://chikungintl.com)

PS: I WAS NOT IGNORING YOUR PREVIOUS MAILS!!! THEY KEEP COMING BACK

[honorisc]

The principles is what makes the internal arts~. Read the principles translate them physically,; however you like. Realize what ever leg sweeps you can, and incorporate them into the translations.

I find that the Tai Ch'i Chuan warm-upexercises and the weightshift and turning while standing could be used for awing Fighting/"self-defense" techniques.

You are not patient enough for Pa Kua, to get the efficiency you would like as quickly as wouldn't become frustrating~

If there are not as many leg sweeps in Pa Kua as you would like, stay true to the principles and put them in it.

Very some such,perhaps might have been, likely say some, some not.