Fight Science

[RUFNTUFGIRL]

I saw this on a site's link and thought it was pretty cool.
Go to...

http://www9.nationalgeographic.com/channel/fightscience/videoPreview.html

[MARTIALSTUDANT]

That does look cool!!!!!!

[SanHeChuan]

"I feel like superman...In a very humble way." LOL at the delivery of that line.

Forget BOB I want that crash test dummy.

[Su Lin]

They have data!!! Why is it every time anyone wants to impress they say they use NASA technology! There is even a mattress ac in the uk that claims they have used NASA technology!
Looks interesting, but a bit flash.

[David Jamieson]

more xma crap really isn't it. those look like a bunch of teh guys from teh xma thing that got trashed for being so goofy.

I guess they repackaged that pile of poo and sold it to natgeo now.

bleh. :rolleyes:

[CaptinPickAxe]

I agree with DJ.

This another program to stroke the egos of XMA fanboys and wanna-be's. If they really want fight science and true data on a fighters prowess. Why not just get someone who fights for a living, not a hobby.

I'd take it a lot more seriously if they took a Pride/UFC/KotK fighter than taking Johnny Tae Kwon Do from Anytown, USA. I want stats on someone who breaks faces for a living. I want to see the science of the minds of Galdiators. I could care less about a psuedo-fighter when the only thing he fought was obesity before he got into MA

[CaptinPickAxe]

They have data!!! Why is it every time anyone wants to impress they say they use NASA technology! There is even a mattress ac in the uk that claims they have used NASA technology!
Looks interesting, but a bit flash.


Temporpedic is the Shiz, son! It has Visco-elastique memory cells that conform to your body's weight.... I have insomnia and have seen the infomercial too many times.

[Su Lin]

Perhaps you should try one of them, may help you sleep! :p

[The Willow Sword]

See now that whole vid series would have been cool if they didnt include the ninjitsu dumba$$. " I feel like superman, but in a very humble way":rolleyes: what a wanker!!


UH oH I smell PUMPERNICKLE:p ;) :D TWS

[CaptinPickAxe]

Perhaps you should try one of them, may help you sleep! :p

F*** That!

Those things are thousands more than my broke, college student, ass can afford!:D

[Su Lin]

I really am going to have to make an effort and get me some pumpernickel!

The idea is interesting for the programme, but just seems like a load of men showing off!!!:p We'll never get it over here anyway . **** BBC! It's about time someone made a decent MA programme .

[David Jamieson]

I think a "real" MA program hasn't been forthcoming because it is almost always approached by people witrh preconceptions who then try to make the concepts fit into tehir preconception which in turn leaves you with a bunch of grown men shouting and breaking boards. :rolleyes:

But if you take a show like Kungfu Business that chronicles two people going to study at shaolin on teh 3 year program with one of them (the boy) staying and becoming a student of shi de yang and teh other, an hk business man leaving because he realizes he bit off way more than he could chew and all the while the hard work of it being shown throughout.

Reality. I mean "real" reality is too boring for the masses that have been fed rambo and rah rah. They appanrently want to watch and believe this utter crap instead of seeing it for what it really is, a lot of hard work and sweat and frankly, quite boring to watch most of the time. lol

but mix in a little cirque du soliel peppered with David Carradine fortune cookieisms and a whole lot of straight up bullshi and that's teh cheez **** that american viewers prefer.

[PlumDragon]

Wow, so much negativity....

Personally, I think the show looks really cool. They claim to have fighters from lots of different areas, including a world-class Muay Thai fighter (Not sure if the claim is truthful, thats just what they claimed) and it looks like they are recording lots of measurments like power production, speed, accuracy, reflexes, balance all from a variety of kicks and punches, etc.
They even had a tid bit that looked like they will address the idea of whole-body connectedness.

As a martial artist, I jump for joy any time there is anything on TV even remotely to do with martial arts, whether its a UFC fight or a wushu form competition--this TV show is no different, and the only reason I wont be watching it next Sunday is because I have better things to do with my money than pay for cable... ;)

[cjurakpt]

well, it seems pretty cool - at least, it could be a lot worse - i mean, it's not Final Fu...

the only problem with these shows is that they tend ot have a limited context - for example, they lump stuff together, they don't really establish context of each style, and they bestow a title such as Wushu Master as if it were some old style traditional system instead of a sport - on the other hand, they are at least trying to be objective with the measurements and what not;

i wonder if they are going to tackle the whole qi projection / dim mak thing - that would probably not be as interesting to watch as the rest of it though...

as far as MA TV shows go, the best that I have ever seen is one that was being broadcast on Fit TV about a year ago called Fighting Arts - this French Canadian Aikido BB woman went around the world spending time with a variety of local teachers in Thailand, Brazil, India, Japan, Filipenes, Europe, studying the particular arts for about a month each, to try to really get the flavour - there's not hype, it's all straightforward, and goes into pretty good depth about the specifics of the styles - since she was already a BB in Aikido, she knew how to behave properly, and was able to get some of the teachers, all very skilled, to really open up on on camera and show some very good stuff

[PlumDragon]

the only problem with these shows is that they tend ot have a limited context - for example, they lump stuff together, they don't really establish context of each style, and they bestow a title such as Wushu Master as if it were some old style traditional system instead of a sportIm not sure establishing context of a given style is relevant. It appears they will do a variety of different types of punches, kicks, drills, etc to ascertain a variety of measurements. What does style have to do with it? Its about **** time somebody started taking measurements of martial arts feats--every other strenuous activity in the world does it...

As for the "Wushu Master" title, who cares what they call him?? Is it really such a big deal what the title is....? I suppose if thats really the biggest concern then I should be happy, because its largely immaterial when considering what the goal of the show is...



i wonder if they are going to tackle the whole qi projection / dim mak thing - that would probably not be as interesting to watch as the rest of it though...I would be very surprised if they did. This is about measurements, results. For those of us who study martial arts with the idea of qi, there might be a mapping from one to the other that can be extrapolated from the show, but IMO talking about qi or "dim mak" in this show totally defeats the purpose of what they are trying to do: Its a biomechanical study of the amazing abilities of our body, and differs very little--IMO--from studies that have been done in the past about professional soccer player's ability to kick a soccer ball or the balance and strength of dancers, etc...Its not really about martial arts, in the end its about human feats.

[SanHeChuan]

The show looks good, the tests look good, the Martial artist... :rolleyes:

James Lew, who picked them, said they had to be able to communicate effectively.

Which translates to, Flamboyant. :p

[GeneChing]

Martial Arts vs. Crash Test Dummies: National Geographic's FIGHT SCIENCE by Dr. Craig Reid (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=675).

[mattb]

There was a show some years back, I believe it was on the Discovery channel though, along the same lines as this. About how the body generates the power for strikes and the structure of the body, etc. I don't recall specifics, but I do remember turning it off after 10-15min. What I saw of it was a showcase of special effects/camera work more than it was for martial arts. So I'll skip this one, just a friendly warning for anyone getting their hopes up. :)

matt

[tug]

well, it seems pretty cool - at least, it could be a lot worse - i mean, it's not Final Fu...

the only problem with these shows is that they tend ot have a limited context - for example, they lump stuff together, they don't really establish context of each style, and they bestow a title such as Wushu Master as if it were some old style traditional system instead of a sport - on the other hand, they are at least trying to be objective with the measurements and what not;

i wonder if they are going to tackle the whole qi projection / dim mak thing - that would probably not be as interesting to watch as the rest of it though...

as far as MA TV shows go, the best that I have ever seen is one that was being broadcast on Fit TV about a year ago called Fighting Arts - this French Canadian Aikido BB woman went around the world spending time with a variety of local teachers in Thailand, Brazil, India, Japan, Filipenes, Europe, studying the particular arts for about a month each, to try to really get the flavour - there's not hype, it's all straightforward, and goes into pretty good depth about the specifics of the styles - since she was already a BB in Aikido, she knew how to behave properly, and was able to get some of the teachers, all very skilled, to really open up on on camera and show some very good stuff

Agreed on "Final Fu".

Just wanted to comment on the last paragraph of this quote - I have seen the aforementioned show and found it to be very enlightening at the least. As for the NATG show - I have seen it online (which I find confusing, because it is supposedly airing this coming Sunday) and enjoyed it thoroughly. It was very interesting to see the real mechanics of the human body in motion, and even though there are many naysayers out there about it, and a lot of negative responses with regard to the whole "NASA" thing, it didn't seem to make no sense.

Just my 2c.

[RUFNTUFGIRL]

Gene,

I originally found the show highlights a few weeks back and posted it because it looked cool. Now, I am PO'd because I am away and am hoping I can get that channel where I am. I am sure they will replay it.

[Andy62]

http://www9.nationalgeographic.com/channel/fightscience/index.html

[Yao Sing]

Watching it right now. WTF was that double kick from the Kung Fi guy?

Never saw that in KF.

The Muay Thai guy cheated because he pulled the target into his strike. Not a fair comparison IMO.

So far interesting but not impressed.

[GreenCloudCLF]

Watching it right now. WTF was that double kick from the Kung Fi guy?

Never saw that in KF.

The Muay Thai guy cheated because he pulled the target into his strike. Not a fair comparison IMO.

So far interesting but not impressed.

KF guys always look super gay in these things..that kick and even his punch were gay.

[GreenCloudCLF]

Dan Inosanto cameo...nice.

[SanHeChuan]

TUG,

Where did you see "Fight science" online. Not all of us have cable, so don't hold out. ;)

[IronFist]

Darn, I just saw your thread now and I didn't know the show came on tonight. Did you watch it? How was it?

[IronFist]

Here's a cool screenshot I took from that preview (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/ironfistx/muaythaiguy.jpg).

[hung-le]

How was it?

Total BS ...... I think its been on before....

[hjt]

the show was eh boring

but it did show how boxing, muay thai and grappling are stronger styles than kung fu, karate and tkd.

which technicially is MMA

[Ford Prefect]

I thought the first part of the show was entertaining. No real conclusions could be drawn considering the participants were of unequal weights. They also crowned the ninja king of the MA's because he could balance on plum flower poles (and was coincidentally the only one who had to appeared to ever train on them previously) and could hammer strike the chest with a good amount of force.

It was still cool to see the kinetic linking broken down into that graphical representation though.

[ZhuiQuan]

The thing that bugs me about these martial arts shows that have been popping up, is that kung fu is so generalized. The kung fu practitioner punched like Bruce Lee, not like a Shaolin Monk (for example) who could probably crush someones face with a straight punch. There's a lot more hip twisting and follow-through than what that guy did. It just bugs me because people who don't know any better assume that all kung fu is the same when they see these shows. It kind of makes kung fu seem weak or inferior to Karate or Tae Kwan Do... any of the more popular styles in the states.

I can't wait for the day a fan of Shaolin, who is also a filmmaker, makes a documentary or TV special on Shaolin Kung Fu.

[QuaiJohnCain]

the show was eh boring

but it did show how boxing, muay thai and grappling are stronger styles than kung fu, karate and tkd.

which technicially is MMA

Actually, it did not show that. They commented on advantages and disadvantages of all the styles involved.

There was clearly an agenda to promote style vs style BS. They could have had MUCH better Karate and Kung Fu guys. I giggled when I saw the punch measurments, I know a few guys that can throw twice the power (2000+psi) of any of the demonstators on the documentary....

But trying to use the information presented to determine which style is the best?

Rediculous!

[Vash]

Actually, it did not show that. They commented on advantages and disadvantages of all the styles involved.

There was clearly an agenda to promote style vs style BS. They could have had MUCH better Karate and Kung Fu guys. I giggled when I saw the punch measurments, I know a few guys that can throw twice the power (2000+psi) of any of the demonstators on the documentary....

But trying to use the information presented to determine which style is the best?

Rediculous!

First, it's ridiculous. ;)

Second, it suxord. Who was the karate guy? Who was the kung fu guy? The MT fighter would have eatne most of the other people for a post-workout meal.

Garg.

[hung-le]

I'm assuming the director called ISKF on whom to call for the show...

I saw a wushu expert being comapared to a serious boxing instructor, and a world class Muay Thai boxer...

hmmmm......... ???? A wushu guy who plays at gymnastics (with tinfoil weapons thrown in to boot ) being compared to guys who are legit competitors...lol..... not a fare comparison ... The TDK guy with all is muscles seem to look no more convincing than the Wushu guy....IMO...

The one who got down played the most was probably was the most deserving… Rickson Gracie....and jujitsu

hey ...I know...said in my most sarcastic voice possible…………….

..... "let's do a show called "Fight Science" and give the art and the man out front of the art (that very art that has caused a revolution in the world community) less time than any other art on the show.... I think less than five min..he was on...what BS!!!!!

And for fun we can throw in some Wushu weapon play by clueless gymnast. bouncing all over the mat... nice......

[hung-le]

p.s....


I was waiting for the techno music and glow chucks to come out.....

any moment...I thought to myself....

[Ford Prefect]

Actually, it did not show that. They commented on advantages and disadvantages of all the styles involved.

There was clearly an agenda to promote style vs style BS. They could have had MUCH better Karate and Kung Fu guys. I giggled when I saw the punch measurments, I know a few guys that can throw twice the power (2000+psi) of any of the demonstators on the documentary....

But trying to use the information presented to determine which style is the best?

Rediculous!

I'd like to see some evidence to back this up on equipment as reliable as that used for this show. Somehow, I am doubting that it will ever come to fruition.

[Ford Prefect]

I'm assuming the director called ISKF on whom to call for the show...

I saw a wushu expert being comapared to a serious boxing instructor, and a world class Muay Thai boxer...

hmmmm......... ???? A wushu guy who plays at gymnastics (with tinfoil weapons thrown in to boot ) being compared to guys who are legit competitors...lol..... not a fare comparison ... The TDK guy with all is muscles seem to look no more convincing than the Wushu guy....IMO...

The one who got down played the most was probably was the most deserving… Rickson Gracie....and jujitsu

hey ...I know...said in my most sarcastic voice possible…………….

..... "let's do a show called "Fight Science" and give the art and the man out front of the art (that very art that has caused a revolution in the world community) less time than any other art on the show.... I think less than five min..he was on...what BS!!!!!

And for fun we can throw in some Wushu weapon play by clueless gymnast. bouncing all over the mat... nice......


Give me a break, guy. The wushu guy wasn't the best choice, but he was probably all of 135 lbs soaking wet and still managed to hit 2/3 as hard as the boxer. They also gave him props for his speed.

As for the Gracie's, so what? What more could have been done to highlight grappling? They showed how obscene amounts of pressure are applied to weak points. Did you want them to do a neck crank, choke, arm bar, knee bar, heel hook, bicep slicer, etc? Considering they'd be the only ones doing it, it would take away from the whole "multiple masters" aspect of the show.

Life is a lot better when you don't go through it measuring and judging everything you see. It was an entertaining show at its base regardless of who was repping what style, what the extremely limitted and highly unscientific tests revealed, etc. It wasn't made for a scientific look into the martial arts. It was made to entertain people who have little to no idea about them. Enjoy it for what it is.

[edward]

This is in regards to the Nation geographic fighting science show which they aired last night. It was a 2 hour special on the break down of how martial arts generates power as well as the damage it does to the opponent

Is it me or the show is just flawed….I mean I’m no scientist, and I took
phsyics back in high school pass/fail…
but the stuff they did seemed freaking flawed as hell

#1) the punch power – okay, this $150,000 dummy can measure the power being
delivered, and in the end
the boxer punched the hardest, and the kung fu guy the weakest….unless they
didn’t mention it further or I missed
it while the machine measured the forced impact delivered, did they not
calculate or factor in the size of each individual..
I mean the boxer was a huge guy at least 200+ lbs, while the kung fu guy
looked like a single ramon noodle with a kung fu shirt on maybe
about 135 on a wet day. And, by the way, did they have to pick a wu shu guy,
for crying out loud, wu shu people have no power, they’re liking
jumping gazelles before the lions pounce on them. I mean isn’t simple
caluclation invovle f = ma (mass and accelertaion). Oh by
the way watching how the kung fu guy, he was toast… saw him trying to tense
up and use muscle at the end to generate power.. Duh

I mean I was watching little league baseball, and they have 2 measures of
throwing power… they have the actual speed which is
like 68 to 70 mph and then what it actually translates to in the big leagues
which is like 90mph…

#2) Kicking power – this was just a gay expereiment again… You’ve got
kawate, (hehehe) tae kwon do, kung fu (uggh flying double kick) that
wouldn’t even knock over michael jackson… so they all do their kicks and so
far the tae kwon do is the strongest.. but wait.. Muay thai is better…
why, coz he’s gonna do a knee???? WTF??? That’s like comparing apples and
oranges… Why don’t you compare the powers of a shot gun vs. a bb gun…
that didn’t even make any freaking sense… If that’s the case, why not let
the thai guy throw a freaking elbow for the punch in the very first test…

#3) Reaction – this is actually the 4th test, not gonna talk about the speed
(oooh kung fu fastest, and hits like mosquito bites).. anyway they had
a machine that the tae kwon do guy would react to and he would have to hit
the pads everytime the lights went on.. The premise was they mentioned how
do marital arts master seem to move before the opponent, its because unlike
“regular” humans they react so much faster…. This could be even the gayiest
of all the test… Coz reaction speed is such a useless and dwindling skill……
why not get the reaction of a tae kwon do guy whose freaking 60 years old…
made it look like the
tae kwon do guy was super fast.. NOT… guys test on reaction based on eye
hand coordination.. I’ll take the bet of a 14 year old kid’s eye hand
coordination playing
the hardest level of Dance Dance Revolution video game VS that tae kwon do
guy any day, and there’ll be no contest…..ugggh, reaction what a useless
test on ability to move before the opponent

#4) finding center – so they get a stroke ninja guy who can balance on these
plum flowers… all the other martial artist were falling off left and
right….Uhhh, let me guess the ninja is the ultimate in balance.. uh, really
gay test, I’ll take some circuis solei dude or girl and put them up against
this ninja, and the demonstration of the di-mak hit to the soler
plexes….eeeeeek… Who conducted these experiements…

#5) breaking – Even more useless, but the worst demonstration, was having
this guy do a shoulder ram through 10 long stacked bricks…. Uhhh, oooh
martial arts.. the guys freaking 275lbs running at full speed through wimpy
bricks.. for crying out loud, should I be impressed with this. That’s like
me lifting 10lb dumb bells and bragging about it…. Who cares… I mean what’s
more impressive the elephant who moves a large object or a little ant that
can carry like 10 to 20 times its size… what was the point of all this….. Why
not just get hulk hogan and have him punch erkel in the face, that’s
impressive….

Anyway the best part of the show, was how the body reacts to the pain.. that
was cool…

the 2nd part of the show was about weapons..yada, yada, yada

[hung-le]

[QUOTE=Ford Prefect;700086]Give me a break, guy. The wushu guy wasn't the best choice, but he was probably all of 135 lbs soaking wet and still managed to hit 2/3 as hard as the boxer.

I'm not knocking the guy... I said it wasn't a fare comparison...but I could have picked any number of CMA guys that would have qualified better……………..

Rather than try to legitimize the art of Wushu by comparing Wushu boy up against real martial arts competitors which only made him look wanting in the prowess factor


As for the Gracie's, so what?

So what?.....So What????? You must be living in a cave..... Or you are the show's producer....right?


What more could have been done to highlight grappling? They showed how obscene amounts of pressure are applied to weak points. Did you want them to do a neck crank, choke, arm bar, knee bar, heel hook, bicep slicer, etc?



Well let me see...they highlighted hokey Ninja cat walking skills and Wushu boy and girl twirling tinfoil broad swords and fake spears (to include TKD man with his fake jo.) ..and spent an hour of the show on testing nothing but strikes.............considering what grappling has done to the martial arts scene in the last ten years..... The shows title was hardly legit.......don’t ya think?




Life is a lot better when you don't go through it measuring and judging everything you see.

How does one measure improvement? However I’ll acknowledge that doing something for the sake of it being fun is a major plus…and probably what drives us the most



It was an entertaining show

No it wasn’t………….. it was fiction


Enjoy it for what it is

Someone serves me crap I say so.... I can't help it if you don't like my opinion...

[hung-le]

The thing that bugs me about these martial arts shows that have been popping up, is that kung fu is so generalized. The kung fu practitioner punched like Bruce Lee, not like a Shaolin Monk (for example) who could probably crush someones face with a straight punch. There's a lot more hip twisting and follow-through than what that guy did. It just bugs me because people who don't know any better assume that all kung fu is the same when they see these shows. It kind of makes kung fu seem weak or inferior to Karate or Tae Kwan Do... any of the more popular styles in the states.

I can't wait for the day a fan of Shaolin, who is also a filmmaker, makes a documentary or TV special on Shaolin Kung Fu.

exactly....I agree..

Instead they go out and get Wushu experts (although some fight...most do nothing but gymnastics)

Or they go out and get Hollywood models who do martial arts/like that "final fu" crap.....

[Liddel]

Dude - I work behind the scenes in Television.

Ive worked on Dramas, sport and News.

Ill let you in on a little secret.

We make almost 98 % of it up as we go :D

[anerlich]

#1 - The thing about bodyweight is a legit criticism, except that you hear TMA guys boasting about how hard they punch all the time, and how boxers can't punch "for real". I don't know how they picked the people, or how good they were in the wider scheme of things.

#2 - presumably they let the kickers choose the type of kick they were going to do, or choose what they thought was their styles most powerful kick, or whatever. I don't see that you have much cause for complaint here.

#3 - There are only so many ways to measure reaction time objectively. It's only a small part of being able to react effectively to an opponent, but it may give an edge. All your thoughts about Dance Revolution, etc. don't do much for me, I'm afraid. AFAIK much of the pure reaction time is genetic, anyways, so style training is pointless. We had a setup like this at our school for a while (an Impax bag), it was useful for things like determining which kicks could be delivered fastest, and getting some feedback on your speed and power.

#4 - It's Cirque du Soleil, other than that you're probably right.

#5 - It's probably a LITTLE different from you lifting 10lb dumbells and bragging about it.

Duh, I gather you didn't like the program much then? :D

It sounds to me like it might have been better done in Brainiac style, with a bit of humour thrown in - assuming they could find enough MA'ers who could take a joke at their expense.

[CaptinPickAxe]

It was complete and utter BS. Sure, they had Rickson Gracie and Don Inosanto....for all of like 3 minutes. The rest was psuedo-scientific evidence that such and such punch was more powerful from a guy who was 350lbs.

Here's a good way to sum up this show.

The ninja's dim mak chest strike was the deadliest attack. He was also dubbed "T3h m05t d34d7y w4rr10r!!!1!" They gave no stats on anything he did, said his punch compressed the chest two inches (and was more powerful than a full force spinning kick from TKD), and stroked his LARPer ego.

Don't watch it. If you've seen the XMA show on discovery then your not missing a thing.

Except maybe for common sense situations:
1. a proper crucifix can break your neck
2. a Thai knee to the chest is a great way to f@ck some one up

[Ford Prefect]

I'm not knocking the guy... I said it wasn't a fare comparison...but I could have picked any number of CMA guys that would have qualified better……………..

Rather than try to legitimize the art of Wushu by comparing Wushu boy up against real martial arts competitors which only made him look wanting in the prowess factor

But they didn't. You expect the producers of an entertainment show to go out and research who would be a good representative out of the 3 trillion styles of kung fu to bring in rather than "Kung Fu" champion from the US. To the layman, this guy seemed more than qualified. I just don't see why you have your panties in a bunch over it. Who cares?



So what?.....So What????? You must be living in a cave..... Or you are the show's producer....right?

Well, I have practiced BJJ regularly and competed under a blackbelt from Brazil as well as training submission grappling lightly for the 5 years since I did so... I think I have a good handle on grappling and it's import in fighting. As for a tv show made for the masses in which different masters pit their skills against each other... considering there was only one master there, it would be hard to stick to the show's premise. Expecting it to do so is narrow minded.


Well let me see...they highlighted hokey Ninja cat walking skills and Wushu boy and girl twirling tinfoil broad swords and fake spears (to include TKD man with his fake jo.) ..and spent an hour of the show on testing nothing but strikes.............considering what grappling has done to the martial arts scene in the last ten years..... The shows title was hardly legit.......don’t ya think?

The hokey ninja tested his balance with everybody else... hence the premise of the show.

The people twirling tin foil weapons in unrealitic combat displays stuck to the premise of the show.

Highlighting how grappling has changed the way sport fighters train does not stick to the premise of the show. It is a show comparing similar skillsets of a broad range of artists. Why is that hard to understand?


How does one measure improvement? However I’ll acknowledge that doing something for the sake of it being fun is a major plus…and probably what drives us the most

Measuring improvement in one's chosen hobby, career, etc is quite different than measuring and inturn getting all worked up about the cross-sectional display of martial artists in a TV show produced by lay people to entertain lay people.

You don't get to MacDonald's and expect filet mignon. You're complaints about "crap" are akin to somebody whining that the service at Denny's wasn't comparable to the Four Seasons. It is what it is.

[ricardocameron]

well, it seems pretty cool ....

as far as MA TV shows go, the best that I have ever seen is one that was being broadcast on Fit TV about a year ago called Fighting Arts - this French Canadian Aikido BB woman went around the world spending time with a variety of local teachers in Thailand, Brazil, India, Japan, Filipenes, Europe, studying the particular arts for about a month each, to try to really get the flavour - there's not hype, it's all straightforward, and goes into pretty good depth about the specifics of the styles - since she was already a BB in Aikido, she knew how to behave properly, and was able to get some of the teachers, all very skilled, to really open up on on camera and show some very good stuff

Yeah, that Fighting Arts show is awesome, and it comes on FitTV on my cable occasionally....She's got spunk, and I'D love to train with someone wo's been exposed to all that! She's studied almost everything...
I thought the 'Fight Science' show was very entertaining and informative, and my 10 yr old son liked it, but what do we know anyway, we are Shaolin-Do FIGHTERS ;) Who'da thunk there was so much force delivered with a knee strike??

Hell, IMHO, ANY POSITIVE MA program is a good program!

[SanHeChuan]

By Ford Prefect

But they didn't. You expect the producers of an entertainment show to go out and research who would be a good representative out of the 3 trillion styles of kung fu to bring in rather than "Kung Fu" champion from the US. To the layman, this guy seemed more than qualified. I just don't see why you have your panties in a bunch over it. Who cares?

The martial artists weren't picked by a layman, they were picked by James Lew. WTF?

[The Xia]

On the KFM article, it says that Alex Huynh isn't just a Wushu champion but also a "Shaolin Dragonfist" stylist. Still, it was pretty lousy of them to do the style vs. style B.S.. In addition, a lot of their historical facts were innaccurate. However, the show did have good points to it.

[hung-le]

Ford Prefect

You are just looking for someone to have a flame war with..................................




[b]

I just don't see why you have your panties in a bunch over it. Who cares?

I believe your the one who got your panties in a bunch rememeber? Your the one who responded to my post...or have you forgotten this?



Give me a break, guy. The wushu guy wasn't the best choice, but he was probably all of 135 lbs soaking wet and still managed to hit 2/3 as hard as the boxer. bla bla bla.......

I ask again who's panties where in a bunch.....?



Well, I have practiced BJJ regularly and competed under a blackbelt from Brazil as well as training submission grappling lightly for the 5 years since I did so... I think I have a good handle on grappling and it's import in fighting.

Good for you......whoopde do de da!.....Please state where my words implyed you didn't know what you where talking about?? (as if I cared....)

Since you study BJJ and all .....seems to me Gracie's brief cameo...should have been a bone of contention with you more than me.....




You don't get to MacDonald's and expect filet mignon. You're complaints about "crap" are akin to somebody whining that the service at Denny's wasn't comparable to the Four Seasons. It is what it is.

Again this is you trying to agrue/have a flame war.....Uh dude this is a discussion group... we discuss.....

I"m dicussing what I thought was a crap show....uh..hence the word "Forum"...

so you don't like the topic of my thread...don't post a retort to my words then tell me I got my panties in a wad when I counter your words with my own.....

go have a flame war with someone about a serious topic...Gheeze.....will ya PLEASE!!!

[hung-le]

The martial artists weren't picked by a layman, they were picked by James Lew. WTF?

my point exactly.....................

[tug]

TUG,

Where did you see "Fight science" online. Not all of us have cable, so don't hold out. ;)


The martial artists weren't picked by a layman, they were picked by James Lew. WTF?

SHC, I apologize for the delay in response. Been away a couple days. I am not sure where I saw it online, it may have even been something like youtube or similar. Can't say for sure because it was super late night, and haven't been able to track it down since.

As for the second quote, I would tend to agree, but at the same time, I would also think that JL, as knowledgeable as he is known to be, possibly had to work within the parameters of "tv". Maybe he was only given enough merit to allow him to impart what he knows about MA until the producers took over to sensationalize the topic. Just going off what Liddell mentioned earlier.

Either way, I did enjoy the subject matter, but not so much the shock value.

[b82rez]

You know what, after I first saw the show I had the opinion that "Hey, this is an MA show on an educational channel, that's pretty cool even if the show was poorly made" but I have since changed my mind.

Doesn't matter how much time was spent on this or that style, they should have spent an even time on EVERY style WITHOUT comparing. It seemed to me that the producers spent so much money getting the dummies that they didn't have funding left to formulate a proper scientific inquiry.

IMO they did not have a panel of experts from the respective arts. They had performance artists (wushu) compared to ring fighters.

Pretty sad that the Ninja worked Plum Flower poles better than the kung fu guy.

Why did they not discuss the differnces in art philosophy to help understand why the fighting styles are different?

The list can go on and on...

The "Science" in the title is what warrents criticism of the show. It was NOT scientific and it did not represent the styles well.

They NEED to air their documentary on Shaolin Kung Fu to make up for this BS!

[Ford Prefect]

You are just looking for someone to have a flame war with..................................

What a radicle use of elipses!

I take it that means you're leaving........................................


I believe your the one who got your panties in a bunch rememeber? Your the one who responded to my post...or have you forgotten this?

Right. I responded to your post where you had your panties all in a bunch... (I love elipses) or have you forgotten this?


I ask again who's panties where in a bunch.....?

Hmmm... Let's see:

Quoted from the original post of YOURS that I responded to:

I'm assuming the director called ISKF on whom to call for the show...

I saw a wushu expert being comapared to a serious boxing instructor, and a world class Muay Thai boxer...

hmmmm......... ???? A wushu guy who plays at gymnastics (with tinfoil weapons thrown in to boot ) being compared to guys who are legit competitors...lol..... not a fare comparison ... The TDK guy with all is muscles seem to look no more convincing than the Wushu guy....IMO...

The one who got down played the most was probably was the most deserving… Rickson Gracie....and jujitsu

hey ...I know...said in my most sarcastic voice possible…………….

Do you really forget how this all started?


Good for you......whoopde do de da!.....Please state where my words implyed you didn't know what you where talking about?? (as if I cared....)

When you asked if I had been living in the cave because I wasn't concerned about there lack of grappling in the show. Obviously implying that I didn't coprehend the importance of grappling/Gracies on the MA scene.


Since you study BJJ and all .....seems to me Gracie's brief cameo...should have been a bone of contention with you more than me.....

Either that or it doesn't bother me at all because I understand the show's premise. :rolleyes:



Again this is you trying to agrue/have a flame war.....Uh dude this is a discussion group... we discuss.....

I"m dicussing what I thought was a crap show....uh..hence the word "Forum"...

so you don't like the topic of my thread...don't post a retort to my words then tell me I got my panties in a wad when I counter your words with my own.....

go have a flame war with someone about a serious topic...Gheeze.....will ya PLEASE!!!

Ahh yes, the not so eloquent bow out.

Uh.. dude... Uh... this is a discussion forum dude... I'm like... uh... discussing the show.

Extreme sarcasm like:

o what?.....So What????? You must be living in a cave..... Or you are the show's producer....right?

they highlighted hokey Ninja cat walking skills and Wushu boy and girl twirling tinfoil broad swords and fake spears

And for fun we can throw in some Wushu weapon play by clueless gymnast. bouncing all over the mat... nice......

Is, imo, having one's panties in a bunch.

[Ford Prefect]

The martial artists weren't picked by a layman, they were picked by James Lew. WTF?

If you honestly believe that Lew had total creative control of the show and the cast, you are seriously deluded. His ideas for a kung fu rep could have easily been shot down by execs who think competitive titles are more reputable than somebody who has none. There is also a distinct possible that this wushu guy isn't his top choice and he was turned down by various other kung fu people. It's not like they showed up at these people's doors with court orders.

[hung-le]

You are just looking for someone to have a flame war with..................................

What a radicle use of elipses!

I take it that means you're leaving........................................


I believe your the one who got your panties in a bunch rememeber? Your the one who responded to my post...or have you forgotten this?

Right. I responded to your post where you had your panties all in a bunch... (I love elipses) or have you forgotten this?


I ask again who's panties where in a bunch.....?

Hmmm... Let's see:

Quoted from the original post of YOURS that I responded to:

I'm assuming the director called ISKF on whom to call for the show...

I saw a wushu expert being comapared to a serious boxing instructor, and a world class Muay Thai boxer...

hmmmm......... ???? A wushu guy who plays at gymnastics (with tinfoil weapons thrown in to boot ) being compared to guys who are legit competitors...lol..... not a fare comparison ... The TDK guy with all is muscles seem to look no more convincing than the Wushu guy....IMO...

The one who got down played the most was probably was the most deserving… Rickson Gracie....and jujitsu

hey ...I know...said in my most sarcastic voice possible…………….

Do you really forget how this all started?


Good for you......whoopde do de da!.....Please state where my words implyed you didn't know what you where talking about?? (as if I cared....)

When you asked if I had been living in the cave because I wasn't concerned about there lack of grappling in the show. Obviously implying that I didn't coprehend the importance of grappling/Gracies on the MA scene.


Since you study BJJ and all .....seems to me Gracie's brief cameo...should have been a bone of contention with you more than me.....

Either that or it doesn't bother me at all because I understand the show's premise. :rolleyes:



Again this is you trying to agrue/have a flame war.....Uh dude this is a discussion group... we discuss.....

I"m dicussing what I thought was a crap show....uh..hence the word "Forum"...

so you don't like the topic of my thread...don't post a retort to my words then tell me I got my panties in a wad when I counter your words with my own.....

go have a flame war with someone about a serious topic...Gheeze.....will ya PLEASE!!!

Ahh yes, the not so eloquent bow out.

Uh.. dude... Uh... this is a discussion forum dude... I'm like... uh... discussing the show.

Extreme sarcasm like:

o what?.....So What????? You must be living in a cave..... Or you are the show's producer....right?

they highlighted hokey Ninja cat walking skills and Wushu boy and girl twirling tinfoil broad swords and fake spears

And for fun we can throw in some Wushu weapon play by clueless gymnast. bouncing all over the mat... nice......

Is, imo, having one's panties in a bunch.

A Bow out? So u even admit that u are trying to have an arguement! Yet, once again this is you trying to have a flame war..... your flinging mud...but I'm not going down to the mud hole and this ticks u off!

( I love it)

Same as before......"Don't like the topic of my thread...don't post a retort to my words then tell me I got my panties in a wad when I counter your words with my own....."

let's add...(then try even harder to have a flame war beacuse you ego was brused.....) to that last statment.......................................... .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .............(how's that for ya??????????????????????????

And one more time since u failed to read it the first time. (because u obviously were to busy thinking u can win a flame war that u are not going going to get) .......................Go have a flame war with someone else...............

[Aramus]

No I'm not disappointed in the TV show I'm disappointed by the typically responses by some of the jealous, prejudice, whinny little (in mind) people. The show was 2 hours of TV time nearer to 1.2 hours of actual time. You cannot explain every art, every detail for everyone. That’s too boring for the general public, eats up too much time. If you watched it, which a few folks didn’t, but felt compelled to condemn it before it started (everyone can now write off your opinion as you are biased from the beginning), you would have seen what they were trying to do. Get stats. If you watched it you saw there were gaps in the show…seems like they had more footage and moved on. There is a time constraint, time is money. As far as hitting power, yes mass matters. That was plainly stated to begin with. The boxer hit hard. I saw some strange comment that “I know someone that hits harder.” Really? Who and please be so kind to go ahead in post the results. I’m sure Mike Tyson hit really hard before going to jail. But they were judging a small sampling of artist. It would be great to see more, as the article indicated…check out same arts with different sized people, check out different arts. Clearly there can be more done. I’m not so sure that the producers should even give it a chance as a whole bunch of folks here didn’t even bother to give it a chance… WOW, a chance to show what can be done and part of community just condemns it…the next time opportunity comes around…<enough rant>

The show was entertaining, had cool effects, tried to explain many concepts in a small period of time. They declared the Ninja as the ultimate b/c of his varied abilities, no need for the bigger mass to do massive damage, ability to balance, unassuming defense, and overall abilities. Not b/c he could balance the best. <apparently rant not over> Personally, I don’t see it that way but I get an opinion two. They guy was humble…just trying to add personality. He worked hard for what he has as did they all. They should be happy with what they were able to do. If you get a chance and several folks haven’t spoiled it for you, check out the show when it repeats.

[The Xia]

They were perpetuating the style vs. style garbage.

When all the smoke was settled, the show had it's positive and it's negative.

[Aramus]

At first that is what it comes down to, compare and contrast...
I'm not threated by the results...yes there always someone faster or hits harder...move quicker...kick better, has better timing...one show doesn't prove it, one set of results doesn't prove it. It opens up a door for more...that was key.
Wouldn't it be cool to see more? More people, more tests...but is that fun to watch...
It really only proved that this guy who is from this art does this better.
Still cool to see the results..
Thanks.

[The Xia]

The experiments were interesting to watch. My main points of contention are the style vs. style B.S. and innaccurate history.

On the punching thing-Yeah the boxer hit harder. It wasn't because boxing has greater punching power then the other styles. It was because that guy had better punching power then the other stylists. It was also about the punches they chose to use. The kick thing was basically the same situation. Plus, the victor pulled the dummy into him and used his knee, not a kick.

[Aramus]

I think they did the competition for a few reasons, it is interesting and gets people to think. Side note, that is the biggest TKD guy I've seen.

What it showed me is that if you train hard you can increase your hitting power. Yes the Wushu guy didn't hit as hard as the other but he did hit very hard. Put that to a softer target and look what happens. That is respectable and dangerous.

I still give Boxing its due, they hit hard and well with their hands. They train for real contact, impact, timing, and combos. A boxer is dangerous. It is a solid sport (that guarantees brain dmg :( ). That guy was big, strong, proven and could hit. The test confirmed that. It also showed that if you hit hard enough, under good conditions, yes, you can knock someone out with one punch (I learned the two combo punch used to knock someone out...also proven through real boxing).

I have to agree, grabbing and holding then hitting gives you an overall edge with power. Just the same, the test showed that the artists kicked hard.

I believe that relating the history is always hard...some of the martial artists got it wrong...there is so much misinformation out there... it is tough.

I would like to try out the experiements with a bunch of people, regular joes, more boxers, more artists, etc.

[mattb]

It was good to see they finally put the age old question of "Can a person be knocked out with one hit?" to rest. I never thought a 1 hit knockout was possible until getting confirmation from that show :rolleyes:

[The Xia]

It was good to see they finally put the age old question of "Can a person be knocked out with one hit?" to rest. I never thought a 1 hit knockout was possible until getting confirmation from that show :rolleyes:
lol yeah I was thinking the same thing.
The whole tagline of "testing martial arts" was B.S.. History proves martial arts to be effective. Martial arts were developed for function.

[Whiplash]

Worst
Show
Ever

It felt embarassing to watch. It was like Days Of Our Lives with punches and kicks. Too over the top and half of it was repeat clips to make up the time ... the topless demos were a bit much too. C'mon.

And what the hell was with the Ninjitsu plugging - was the show financed by Ninjas?

[MantisWarrior]

agreed, that was so lame. at first i thought it was going to be cool but then it turns out again to be horrible. like whiplash has said, they keep repeating the same demo of each styles over and over. and then the worst part, they said ninjutsu is the ultimate fighting style or something. rofl (not saying it's bad but that is WAY too one sided) for many other styles, they do mainly focus on one thing for example, gracie jutjusu on grappling and karate do mainly kicks. but then when it comes to cma, wushu is definitely not the best representation of it. there are way too many styles to just grant it the title of having the fastest punch. and i m sure other styles can punch just as fast. it's sad the way they compare the styles. and then for the weapons they make the katana seem invincible. sigh.....:confused: :mad:

[Lokhopkuen]

Everything wrong with martial art was illustrated in this show.........

[Su Lin]

I managed to watch fight science last night. It was generally quite interesting, but really quite annoying.
the voice over man was perhaps the most annoying thing, spewing out cliches about the heart of the warrior etc. They called the ninjutsu guy the ultimate warrior , and generally made generalisations.
Perhaps the thing that most annoyed me was the australian TKD guy demonstrating everything! And he made a particularly annoying noise whenever he did anything !
It was all about the power and force, which i realise is generally the point in martial arts, but there is much more to it than that. Also, finally, they were measuring the power the kicks were generating, and then the Muay Tai guy came along ,and was very impressive, but they didnt measure his deadly kick in the same way as everyone elses.
There just seemed to be inconsistencies, perhaps I just couldnt get past annoying voice over guy!
It is always good when MA series are on, better than Eastenders anyway! Must say I much preferred Mind Body and Kickass Moves on BBC3.
Rant over...

[mattb]

It is always good when MA series are onI'm not sure Dillman being on National Geographic is a good thing for MA. ;)

[Su Lin]

Was he the TKD guy?

[mattb]

No, Dillman wasn't on that show, he was on another show, I think it might of been called "Is it Real?" a series that airs on NG Channel. Here's a video of the show he was on, he's in the blue gi being interviewed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-x4iJM2aU4&mode=related&search=dillman

[Su Lin]

I agree! Hes awful, though I love the hair! Its that really annoying voice over guy thing that is so annoying!

[golden arhat]

go on www.youtube.com type in fight science it should be on the second or third results page
ignore the stupid australian tkd/xma guy he gets annoying and doesnt know what he is talking about
but other than that its all good stuff

[David Jamieson]

gonna give it a pass. first time around it was bad enough having to listen to these turkeys go on about seeing blood and what not.

pretty goofy stuff.

now had they approached it from an angle of what they are actually doing, IE:theatrical fighting and musical karate, then it could be taken for what it is.

But it goes over the top in the delusion and whacko nutjob department.
Glitz and Glamour is not the path of kungfu. :p

[The Xia]

but other than that its all good stuff
I disagree. I felt the show had its good and bad. Basically, seeing things measured was cool. I didn’t like the style vs. style b.s. and I saw no evidence from the show that Alex Huynh is proficient in any TCMA. It does say he practiced a TCMA in the KFM article, but I did not see evidence of it from what was done in the show. Also, I found the narrator to be corny and much of the historical information to be inaccurate.

[street_fighter]

I stopped watching it once I saw that two modern wushu people were supposed to be representing kung fu. The drunken boxing really ****ed me off. He wore basically jackie chans outfit, and a bit of the coreography (particularly that hit with the back part) was right out of the movie legend of drunken master. He also said a line that bore an uncanny resemblance to what lau kar leung said in heroes of the east to G-liu (the crappy dubbed). "soft... but strong!". And how the hell is he supposed to be able to represent drunken boxing in the first place, all he knows is the wushu form, and hes preaching about how it should be used in combat. They also had an xma/tkd guy talking about karate. Get a kung fu guy (hung gar, choy lee fut, longfist doesn't matter), and get a traditional karate man (preferably kyokushin), and I'll watch. The only good part was the jiujitsu, and dan inosanto.

[Flying-Monkey]

I stopped watching it once I saw that two modern wushu people were supposed to be representing kung fu. The drunken boxing really ****ed me off. He wore basically jackie chans outfit, and a bit of the coreography (particularly that hit with the back part) was right out of the movie legend of drunken master. He also said a line that bore an uncanny resemblance to what lau kar leung said in heroes of the east to G-liu (the crappy dubbed). "soft... but strong!". And how the hell is he supposed to be able to represent drunken boxing in the first place, all he knows is the wushu form, and hes preaching about how it should be used in combat. They also had an xma/tkd guy talking about karate. Get a kung fu guy (hung gar, choy lee fut, longfist doesn't matter), and get a traditional karate man (preferably kyokushin), and I'll watch. The only good part was the jiujitsu, and dan inosanto.

I must agree. I can't speak for the other styles (karate muay tai taekwando), but the "kung fu" guys were clowns. They made kung fu look even more weak and useless. "kung fu" did the lowest in all of the power tests. That speed punching thing was fruity. It sure could do a number on something. It could do a number on Broadway in tights.

[golden arhat]

i liked the muay thai shwn there
the analysis of a knock out
there representation of chinese kung fu and weapons was severley lacking and the tkd xma guy was an idiot
i dont know why he told us all about the katana when there was a real iaido practitioner there

[TenTigers]

I'd rather watch two retards making out

[gwa sow]

:D hehe, i missed the show but if it was anything like the one they had about the xma guys, must have been pretty bad. the only show that i have seen on discovery etc. that had anything close to good kung fu was a special they had were they hooked up some speed censers to shi yan ming to test his speed during different types of breaks. even that wasnt to good from what i remember

[GeneChing]

National Geographic's Fight Science launches a new season tonight. Our own film correspondent, Dr. Craig Reid, worked with the show. Get his insider's viewpoint in My Life on FIGHT SCIENCE 2010 (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=880).

Official Fight Science website (http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/fight-science/all/Overview)

[TaichiMantis]

National Geographic's Fight Science launches a new season tonight. Our own film correspondent, Dr. Craig Reid, worked with the show. Get his insider's viewpoint in My Life on FIGHT SCIENCE 2010 (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=880).

Official Fight Science website (http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/fight-science/all/Overview)

Nice read, and thanks for the heads up! It's one of my faves.

[Lucas]

ya thats a great read. really makes me want to see that show.