Best Bagua vid i have EVER seen. [Archive]

chud

08-14-2006, 10:42 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mr5vQm_i09I

it says that this man is 93 years old. holy jesus marimba i sure do hope that i can be this vital and flowing at 93. even at 73 i hope i can be like this.

I think that all of us can move like that when we're older if we live right and practice daily. It's definitely inspirational to watch that video, he moves good for any age, but 93?!? It's an amazing testament to the health benefits of walking the circle.

Royal Dragon

08-15-2006, 06:00 AM

Given the name "The Yangtze River Great Chivalrous Man", Taoist Master Lu Zijian performs his bagua at the age of 93. Lu Zijian learned his bagua from a Taoist ,Li Cheng Ye, on Emei Mountain. Last time I checked, Lu Zijian was 111 years old and still going! Thx to Novell Bell for originaly providing the clip. ... (more) (less)

GeneChing

08-15-2006, 09:19 AM

Fire Dragon Qigong: 111 Year Old Grandmaster Lu Zijian’s Dragon Gate By Chen Zhiming, Stephen Jackowicz and Symon Stanley 2003 March/April (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=317). Never met him but I'm told he eats a big bolw of eggs every morning, and then has a smoke.

The Willow Sword

08-15-2006, 09:48 AM

thankyou for moving the thread to its proper place. I accidentally posted it in the Shaolin forums and when i noticed i was like "DOH"!!:eek:

uhh GENE? i havent been able to find the article you mentioned. clicked on the link, didnt see it. went to 2002 and 2004 and still didnt see it.

qiphlow

08-15-2006, 01:17 PM

that was beautiful. thank you for posting.

charyuop

08-15-2006, 01:20 PM

Really great for a 93 year old man. Moreover his movements are not only smooth, but I think they are also precise...at that age it would be easy to just throw in movements to finish the form not caring about if correct or not.

This was the first time I saw Bagua and even tho the movements are carried out faster than Tai Chi I must admit that it has in it the same elegance and power. When I see someone doing Tai Chi (above all if well done) I could just sit there and watch it over and over....it has a hypnotizing effect on me ;) I like Bagua almost in the same way.

Plymouth Rocks

08-15-2006, 02:22 PM

If he's really 93 (or 73) he moves well, but the best you've seen? You get to get out more.

GeneChing

08-15-2006, 02:34 PM

The article isn't available online, I'm afriad. It was in the issue above. You'll find it listed in the TOC, just below the cover picture. If you want to read it, it's only available as a back issue (http://store.martialartsmart.net/kf200115.html).

I didn't watch the youtube video, btw. I just recognized GM Lu's name. He was in a documentary of Chinese masters fairly recently and there was talk of trying to bring him over to America for a visit, but I don't know what became of that venture. He's a fascinating character. He survived a lot of hardship. He has this huge scar from a spear that ran him clean through - I've seen footage of him showing it. It was either in the Sino-Japanese war or the Cultural Revolution.

The Willow Sword

08-16-2006, 07:26 AM

If he's really 93 (or 73) he moves well, but the best you've seen? You get to get out more.

PLymouth i dont see bagua as some spectator sport or performance art. Those of us who have been into and have practiced the internal arts for a while have gotten past the "wow dude thats COOL Lookin":rolleyes: phase. We look at "Content" "fajin" etc. and to date, that is the best representation of bagua i have ever seen. given that this man is 93 at the time of the vid makes all the difference with me.

Peace,TWS

P.S. oh and the vid was Cool lookin' too ;)

Bak Sing

08-16-2006, 04:37 PM

Definitely FIVE STARS,

If someone would like to see Bagua and the Taoist tradition displayed publicly, Master Lu is the example. THANK YOU for this clip and this info.

Ronin22

08-17-2006, 07:14 AM

Wow! Are you guys sure he's 93 in that video? He just looks too fluid to be that age but if he is that's really amazing to me. I wonder if they have to give him a walking cane or crutch when he's through with his form .......kinda like Yoda.

MARTIALSTUDANT

08-17-2006, 10:11 AM

Cool Vid willow sword I Love it

JohnnyMnemonic

08-20-2006, 09:27 PM

Wow! That video gave me the chills. It is a privilege to be able to see something like that. It used to be very rare to see that kind of Ba Gua. Maybe it is more prevalent these days.

The video made me think of why martial artists wear those long flowing clothes. You cannot see what he is doing. If you were someone who did not know martial arts, he looks like he is waving his hands around.

You know a good way to measure your progress in the martial arts? Watch that video every year and see if you notice any difference in what you see. Can you see what he is doing? Or is he just moving fast and waving his arms in particular blocking and attacking movements?

Thank you for the video. That goes right into the martial arts video collection. At the top of the pile with the drunken kung fu guy and the two guys fighting with sticks who were so crazy almost the entire gym stopped to watch them. At a professional event.

B-Rad

08-21-2006, 06:05 PM

Thanks TWS, good stuff! I've been trying to re-find that video for awhile now. BT allways had the best Bagua clips on his site :)

The Willow Sword

08-21-2006, 09:46 PM

i just stumbled across this and it really made me sad because i dont have this kind of bagua under my belt. what i do have is very mediocre at best. seeing this was a definite spirit uplifter for me. and it also encourages me to keep practicing and training well in to my elder years. i wanna move and be supple and flowing just like this man is at 93. i will not become a nursing home victim.

i see myself fading away in the forest somewhere with long white hair and a beard. its how i want to leave this world.:)

As Ever,TWS

cjurakpt

08-21-2006, 10:19 PM

i wanna move and be supple and flowing just like this man is at 93. i will not become a nursing home victim.

if more people thought that way, I'd be a huge paradigm shift for this country; still, I agree wholeheartedly - in fact, my personal vision is to live (not survive) to be 108: 6 x 18 years (it seems my life undergos major foundaional shifts every 18 years: two down, four ta go...) - well, it's a working model at any rate...

The Willow Sword

08-22-2006, 09:25 AM

we gotta retain that essence or else we will go blind and get hairy palms and die very very young;)

TWS

woliveri

08-23-2006, 08:52 AM

David Jamieson

08-23-2006, 10:12 AM

hee hee, i liked the knife work later in the flick.

woliveri, I am curious as to how you think for a moment that he is wrong and what you do is right.
Consider that perhaps what you are doing is incorrect and what he is doing is correct? Or neither.

It is my experience that some circle walking slides into the grip toe first, while other circle walk is heel/toe and yet other styles emphasize total weight throughout the foot on each step (flat footed more or less).

Now baguas not my thing, but I would be very wary of criticising the form of someone who has been practicing for 2x as long as most of our teachers have even been taking air into their lungs.

food for thought and no personal jab intended.

lunghushan

08-23-2006, 10:26 AM

Well, I'm just a Bagua beginner and I'm taught to lift the foot so the sole is flat and set it down by the toe, gripping the ground with the toes. If it's done right it's **** hard and works muscles in the foot, calf that you thought you never had.

As nice as this looks it appears the stepping has gone out the window. He looks like he's having a walk in the park with his heel first walking.

More experienced BG dudes, am I wrong?

He definitely seems to be doing it fast and wushu like and the stepping is more like Sun ZhiZhun http://www.plumpub.com/sales/vcd3/coll_BGsunzhijun.htm (only much higher).

http://www.plumpub.com/images/VCD4/vcd1369.jpg

Not sure if you should say it's right or wrong. That's how they do it in their lineage evidently, or at least for show.

Plus, nobody expects old guys to do their forms right anyway. :)

TaiChiBob

08-23-2006, 10:44 AM

Greetings..

Plus, nobody expects old guys to do their forms right anyway.
AARRRGGHHHHHH...... First, old is a state of mind, and.. that guy has a pretty good state of mind.. Second, most "old guys" that have been at this for decades have gone beyond the confines of forms, they have learned the lessons of the forms.. Some of these older guys have forgot more than most of us "know".. and Third, now what was it? i know there was a third thing.. hmmmm... oh well, remember the first 2, i'm gonna take a nap now, maybe it'll jog my memory..:D

Be well...

lunghushan

08-23-2006, 11:56 AM

Greetings..

AARRRGGHHHHHH...... First, old is a state of mind, and.. that guy has a pretty good state of mind.. Second, most "old guys" that have been at this for decades have gone beyond the confines of forms, they have learned the lessons of the forms.. Some of these older guys have forgot more than most of us "know".. and Third, now what was it? i know there was a third thing.. hmmmm... oh well, remember the first 2, i'm gonna take a nap now, maybe it'll jog my memory..:D

Be well...

It's not just memory ... it's the physical thing. As people get older they can't go into lower stances, lower basin and all that. It's a rare person who can do that even at 60-70, let alone 93!!!

A lot of people learned from very old people, who had hunched backs, couldn't go low into stances, couldn't keep their alignment correct, and as a result we have a lot of very bad martial arts.

You do taiji, Bob, right? So where are the old guys doing the stomps and jumps? Most of that from Chen isn't even in the taiji anymore, let alone finding some old guy doing it. How many old people in the park do snake creeps down with their butt to their foot? Not many, right?

The Willow Sword

08-23-2006, 12:20 PM

As nice as this looks it appears the stepping has gone out the window. He looks like he's having a walk in the park with his heel first walking.

More experienced BG dudes, am I wrong?

Uhh Yes you are:D

i watched that vid a few times over focusing on several points and from my experience(which is a little more than beginner) i have concluded that there is nothing wrong with the stepping of this elder. Yes he seems to be walking in the park,HOWEVER, he has been doing these forms for decades and what elder who has done that for so long doesnt "walk in the park;) :D ? His walking in the park looks very solid to me. I noticed times when his stepping is slightly heel to toe and other points where his foot lands flat(in his twists and turns) but the rooting is solid in my opinion.
Peace,TWS

lunghushan

08-23-2006, 12:44 PM

This guy really isn't bad at all, especially for his age. There's another video of some 90+ year old guy doing a dao form and that guy is doing it much more heel-toe stepping.

But heel-toe stepping isn't necessarily wrong for bagua. Some Yin lineages do heel to toe stepping.

In tight turns you don't really want to be doing flat stepping anyway because you put a lot of torque on your knees.

Bottom line is there isn't just one type of baguazhang. There isn't just one type of stepping. Just because somebody isn't doing what you do, doesn't mean they're doing it wrong.

TaiChiBob

08-23-2006, 12:59 PM

Greetings..

You do taiji, Bob, right? So where are the old guys doing the stomps and jumps? Most of that from Chen isn't even in the taiji anymore, let alone finding some old guy doing it. How many old people in the park do snake creeps down with their butt to their foot? Not many, right?I'm not sure where you are, but.. visit Central Florida sometime, you will be quite surprised at the quality and quantity of good Taiji.. There are numerous local Taiji players and teachers that are exceptional.. When's the last time you saw Snake Creeps Down or Low Single Whip in a fight? it is a conditioning posture, the physics and stress on the ligaments are counter productive (yet, i still do them.. shame on me, i know better).. maximum power and efficiency degrades after the pelvis drops below the knee.. hence the saying, "thighs parallel to ground".. now, you can get quite low and still keep the thighs parallel, but it's tricky..

Old Yang has spirals, shuffles, FaJing, and subtle stomps.. but, it's not the appearance of someone's Taiji that kicks your butt, it's their understanding of it..

Be well..

lunghushan

08-23-2006, 01:09 PM

Greetings..

I'm not sure where you are, but.. visit Central Florida sometime, you will be quite surprised at the quality and quantity of good Taiji.. There are numerous local Taiji players and teachers that are exceptional.. When's the last time you saw Snake Creeps Down or Low Single Whip in a fight? it is a conditioning posture, the physics and stress on the ligaments are counter productive (yet, i still do them.. shame on me, i know better).. maximum power and efficiency degrades after the pelvis drops below the knee.. hence the saying, "thighs parallel to ground".. now, you can get quite low and still keep the thighs parallel, but it's tricky..

Old Yang has spirals, shuffles, FaJing, and subtle stomps.. but, it's not the appearance of someone's Taiji that kicks your butt, it's their understanding of it..

Be well..

Yes, you shouldn't drop the pelvis below the knee. I guess the question is, is doing the taiji form correctly doing it with the conditioning aspect in mind? Or are you only interested in applications? Guess it depends upon your emphasis.

Anyway, I'm not a very good taiji player, so it doesn't matter to me.

It was just kindof interesting when I went to the local Yang place and was showing a guy snake creeps down just to explain an application, and he remarked on how 'low' I was ... and my butt was a full foot above my heel.

BTW I don't think you need to go that low, it's just that it was explained to me that the form should be done low.

woliveri

08-23-2006, 04:51 PM

Well guys, that's why I asked.

I can say this, my teacher of over 30 years practice and his friend again of over 30 years practice don't forget the basics when they start to walk a little faster.

Look, I think it's fantastic that the guy's this old and that fluid/flexible. However, I've been in Shanghai for the last 6 months and I have seen some old people do some stuff that most people half their age can't do.

People here in China work out every day. Every day for at least an hour or more. With our busy schedules in the west it's no wonder we don't see more of this kind of flexibilty and fluidness. It's a choice.

But from my point of view he still seems to be walking incorrectly.

How about Count if he's out there still. Have any comments?

lunghushan

08-23-2006, 05:26 PM

But from my point of view he still seems to be walking incorrectly.

How about Count if he's out there still. Have any comments?

??? And you are of his lineage? What's your lineage, Cheng style? Yin style? Which Cheng style? Which Yin style? Yin Yang Ba Pan Zhang? ???

How can you say he's doing it wrong unless you're in his lineage and know how his teachers taught him, and how they were taught, etc.?

You realize there's not one way of stepping in 'baguazhang'. There's not even one martial art called 'baguazhang'. Muddy wade stepping is NOT done in all baguazhang.

Hephaestus

08-23-2006, 07:06 PM

Yin style has heel-toe stepping. They call it Lion Step in some branches. I'm pretty sure Sun style has heel-toe stepping, and it comes from Cheng! I believe this is supposed to be one of those "non-Dong Hai Chuan-descended" Emei branches, so who knows what any of the more specific principles are.

woliveri

08-23-2006, 07:47 PM

??? And you are of his lineage? What's your lineage, Cheng style? Yin style? Which Cheng style? Which Yin style? Yin Yang Ba Pan Zhang? ???

How can you say he's doing it wrong unless you're in his lineage and know how his teachers taught him, and how they were taught, etc.?

You realize there's not one way of stepping in 'baguazhang'. There's not even one martial art called 'baguazhang'. Muddy wade stepping is NOT done in all baguazhang.

Ok, Ok, I get it, I get it, I get it... Take it easy lunghushan, have a coke and a smile. I don't want you to pop a blood vessel.

lunghushan

08-23-2006, 09:52 PM

Ok, Ok, I get it, I get it, I get it... Take it easy lunghushan, have a coke and a smile. I don't want you to pop a blood vessel.

If you think heel-toe is weird you should see crane step ... LOL

TaiChiBob

08-24-2006, 04:44 AM

Greetings..

woliveri: Hey Bill, kudos for you adventure to the motherland.. i suppose you saw that Richard Allen passed away, too bad.. as twisted as he was, he was a strong KungFu advocate.. Master Wong is departing soon and it looks like Jeff will be keeping things going.. iwill be working with Jeff once a week on advanced studies.. a good mix i think.. recent information, new to me, has really impacted my Taiji and internal studies, Rick Barrett's seminar opened new territory relative to how the body functions... Good stuff.. If you're interested check out some of my posts relative to the Connective Tissue System.. Anyway, i know this has little to do with the topic, but i just wanted to say hey!!.. i simply can't devote more time to new endeavors like Bagua, there is still so much to learn in Taiji and QiGong.. 17 years later and i'm just beginning to understand how little i really know, go figure..

Be well..

woliveri

08-24-2006, 07:40 AM

Hi Bob,

No, I'm sorry, I did not know of Richard's passing. It is sad. As you said he was somewhat twisted but in a laughable sort of way. He always kept thing lively at the temple and Master Chan never quite knew what would come out of his mouth next. I'm sorry he has left us. Did he have an accident or some other problem?

Well, when I came to China I was mostly interested in Qigong but here there are few people who are practicing much less teaching. Every time I talk to someone about Qigong I get a big story either about someone will cheat me or some other blah blah blah. In Shanghai as I've found so far, not too many people know about qigong or know what's out there. There are some awesome, awesome Qigong practices it's just a matter of finding them. Perhaps as time passes I'll run into someone who will change my mind.

I was actually going to start Xin(g) Yi here but just before I started I met the Bagua guy. I actually never had an interest before but now I'm all into it. It is d.a.m.n hard to walk and step correctly even without hands, then add hands and wow....

Last weekend all my teacher's Bagua buddies showed up and you can see the differences between each of the "brothers". My teacher learned Taiji before as well as Xing Yi and likes Bagua the best. His body is not as flexible but he's got like tendon strength and serious jing. But his other KF Brother was soft, and still another was maybe inbetween. Very interesting.

I'm also finding there's a lot to learn here. So, barring any issues I'm going to try to suck up as much as I can for as long as I can. I go to the park everyday and train from 1 to 2, maybe 3 hours depending on how I feel and who I'm with.

I'm glad you're keeping with the Taiji. I know there's a big group there. I heard the Wu guy was coming back. Hey, you know Mike Roberts? He said he's been training with that guy too. Mike also loves Bagua but hasn't been involved for a while.

Ok, all for now. Feel free to email me any time or PM me and I'll give you my email address.

Glad to hear you're well.

BruceSteveRoy

08-24-2006, 08:35 AM

i would still try to pick up some xing yi if you get the opportunity. i have seen people that know both and they are very good fighters. the styles and fighting philosophies are very complimentary.

woliveri

08-24-2006, 08:47 AM

BruceSteveRoy,

Yes, you are correct. From what I can see from my point of view Xingyi seems to be quicker to apply martial techniques (in learning time) than bagua. I don't know, that's me looking in from the outside.

Plymouth Rocks

08-25-2006, 10:44 AM

"PLymouth i dont see bagua as some spectator sport or performance art. Those of us who have been into and have practiced the internal arts for a while have gotten past the "wow dude thats COOL Lookin" phase. We look at "Content" "fajin" etc. and to date, that is the best representation of bagua i have ever seen. given that this man is 93 at the time of the vid makes all the difference with me."

Well Luo Dexiu is my teacher so perhaps I've come to develop a preference for something better. BTW I've been in baguazhang for quite some time now. If it's the best you've seen, you need to see more.

woliveri

08-25-2006, 07:38 PM

Anywhere I can download this video so I can put it on my MP4 player?

Thanks,

Scott R. Brown

08-26-2006, 11:13 AM

Anywhere I can download this video so I can put it on my MP4 player?

Thanks,

I'll upload it to my yahoo briefcase: Link (http://briefcase.yahoo.com/iamscott_2001)

You will need to have a Yahoo ID to access it. It is free.

There will be two copies in Divx Format: 33Mb and 16mb.

And one in mp4 format: 15mb

I won't have broadband til later today so check between 3pm-5pm Pacific Time.

Scott R. Brown

08-26-2006, 04:45 PM

Ok They are uploading now!

I cut the MP4 files in two one open hand and the second weapons. The sound cuts out in the middle of the second one and i dont have the software on this computer to fix it. I will do it when I can and upload it later this week.

I am only uploading the MP4's.

It turns out there is a 15mb limit on the total of the file sizes, so they are now slighty over 8mb and 7mb

Let me know if there are any problems.

woliveri

08-26-2006, 05:43 PM

Nice,

Thank you Scott!!!

Scott R. Brown

08-26-2006, 05:56 PM

No Problem, glad to help! :)

The first thing I did when I saw it myself was figure out how to download it, LOL!!!

Then I converted it.

Keep an eye here, I will post when I have the sound fixed on the second clip.

I figure it should be anytime from within 24 hrs to 3-4 days depending on the when I get the time.

Scott R. Brown

08-27-2006, 02:07 AM

Ok I fixed the sound for the weapons file. It is ready to be downloaded. I also recoded the first file. I am not sure that it is any difference from the original, but since I was fixing the second one I decided to redo it too. Remember they are in mp4 format.

I also took out the music and coded it as an mp3 and added a fade out to make it sound a little better.

I hope it works well for anyone who is interested.

Remember you need a free Yahoo ID to access the briefcase.

Link (http://briefcase.yahoo.com/iamscott_2001)