I want to start a Kung Fu tournament ??????

[Chief Fox]

With all of the recent discussion about Final Fu and many more discussions that I've had with my training partners about point sparring, I've been thinking about what it would take to put together a good kung fu tournament.

I live in Colorado and the only martial arts tournaments that we have here are open karate point sparring tournaments.

What I would want to do is create a tournament or tournaments to promote kung fu.

Here are my thoughts so far:
1. This is a fighting tournament only. It would be designed to test your skills in a safe but more realistic manner than point sparring.

2. The fights would be 1 five minute round, no breaks.

3. The only illegal moves would be shots to the eyes, throat, groin and knees.

4. No extra points for fancy 360° kicks.

5. Extra points for clean takedowns.

6. Very few levels. Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced.

7. Very few weight categories. Youth, Middle, Heavy

8. Males and females fight each other.

These are just some thoughts. I'm really looking for some input into what would make a great kung fu tournament.

Things I have no clue about:
1. Insurance

2. Finding a venue.

3. organizing the event.

4. Finding judges and refs.

All suggestions are welcome but I would really like to hear from some people that have done something like this before.

Thanks in advance.

[Donkwoon]

Where would this happen?

[Chief Fox]

Colorado, front range. Probably Denver.

[Key]

I don't know about any of that insurance nonsense, but I would assume it to be really expensive.

And I support your idea 100%.

[Shaolinlueb]

depending how you market it, and explain it. you might have to get boxing federation or whatever involved.

expect to pay a doctor to be there the whole time.

expect insurance to be like 3k or something. i know two guys that used to run an amatuer boxing night. was a real big hit until the insurance jacked the price on them.

Adam

[CLFLPstudent]

Originally Posted by Chief Fox:

3. The only illegal moves would be shots to the eyes, throat, groin and knees.
...
8. Males and females fight each other.


Men and Women will fight each other, and you're allowing kness and elbows? I don't think many women would enter this tournament.

-David

[Chief Fox]

Good point. I may have to reconsider that.

My main purpose right now is to see if I'll be able to even do this.

[BoulderDawg]

I think you have various problems. Being the next Don King is not easy.

To start with not many top fighters are going to want to travel to a tournament ran by someone they don't know....A tourney not sanctioned by anybody.

As mentioned Insurance will be a big deal however that's only one expense. You have to worry about promotion, arena rental...things like that......and what's going to be the prize?

Also things like finding an arena might be difficult. In a few of these "No holds barred" boxing/MA competitions several people have died. The last one I remember was a women who got a less than full contact blow to the head and fell like a ton of bricks. Even with the headgear she was dead before she hit the canvas. Many arenas want to avoid things like this.

[lunghushan]

NHB you can do, they have events all over. NHB with men vs. women is a total joke, and there's no way you could do. There are laws in states, so depending upon the state, you might have to have this at a tribal reservation, but even with that, there's insurance to consider.

But women are weaker and impacts affect them much worse. So forget about that. No men vs. women fighting or you'll be having hurt or dead women. But if you somehow manage to get the buyoff on men vs. women fighting it at least will be interesting to see what happens.

[Chief Fox]

It wouldn't be NHB format. It's more of a San Shou type tournament.

So maybe it'll also be broken down by gender.

[lunghushan]

They say women are weaker and there was this show about that woman that died last year in the U.S. and another woman who got brain damage after a fight. They claimed women's brains and heads are more susceptible to trauma.

But you know what? Only 1 woman has died in boxing in the U.S. since they started but a lot more men have died during the same time period. http://ejmas.com/jcs/jcsart_svinth_a_0700.htm

[Chief Fox]

They say women are weaker and there was this show about that woman that died last year in the U.S. and another woman who got brain damage after a fight. They claimed women's brains and heads are more susceptible to trauma.

But you know what? Only 1 woman has died in boxing in the U.S. since they started but a lot more men have died during the same time period. http://ejmas.com/jcs/jcsart_svinth_a_0700.htm
That's great, thanks for the info. I'll let the doctors handle that if I ever get to that point. Right now I'm more interested in getting it all set up.

[lunghushan]

That's great, thanks for the info. I'll let the doctors handle that if I ever get to that point. Right now I'm more interested in getting it all set up.

You should try to get women fighting men because that will settle once and for all if women are better than men or vice versa. (For the same weight class of course).

[The Willow Sword]

The fights would be 1 five minute round, no breaks.

How about 2 2minute rounds? seems like 1, 5 minute round would be wasting gas. have you ever done continuous bag work for 5 minutes? its tough. 3 minutes are what boxers normally utlitze in training for fights whose rounds last for 3 minutes.
yes i know coming from ME who doesnt like fighting tournaments like ufc and such.

just seems like 5 minute bouts would wear you out. am i wrong on this?

i dont like the idea of Men and women fighting in these bouts, unless the women are like that thai boxing chick from jacka$$. i know it sounds sexist but there should be strict guidelines for women sparring men in this type of format. as in weight class and "how in shape she looks".
you get some willowy lookin broad up there against a beefy lookin dude and guess who is going to come out on top on that one?

[Chief Fox]

I was thinking about the 1 five minute round because i want people to get gassed. I want the time limit to be a part of their fighting strategy.

The reason I wanted guys and girls to fight is because I'm thinking that there are some girls out there who would like to see how they would do agains't the guys but based on some comments today, now I'm thinking no.

Anyone out there put on a tournament? Anyone? Bueller?

[Chief Fox]

I think you have various problems. Being the next Don King is not easy.

To start with not many top fighters are going to want to travel to a tournament ran by someone they don't know....A tourney not sanctioned by anybody.

As mentioned Insurance will be a big deal however that's only one expense. You have to worry about promotion, arena rental...things like that......and what's going to be the prize?

Also things like finding an arena might be difficult. In a few of these "No holds barred" boxing/MA competitions several people have died. The last one I remember was a women who got a less than full contact blow to the head and fell like a ton of bricks. Even with the headgear she was dead before she hit the canvas. Many arenas want to avoid things like this.
I don't want to be Don King. I don't want top fighters. This tournament would be a venue for the everyday martial artist to test their skills.

I want to put together the kind of tournament that I, as a kung fu practitioner would want to participate in. Like I said ealier, the only tournaments in my area are open karate, point sparring tournaments. I don't like this format.

As far as being sanctioned by anyone, I've considered creating a non-profit organization to handle the whole thing. Something like Kung Fu Association of Colorado.

No school affliation so there would be no political BS. Just an organization that puts on kung fu tournaments so people from all over Colorado can come and participate if they want. All proceeds would go to improving the events and if there ever was a profit (I don't expect there to be) it would go towards promoting kung fu in Colorado.

Like I said, I don't want to be Don King, I just want to see some good kung fu. Nobody around Colorado is doing that, so why not me?

[CaptinPickAxe]

Sup, Fox.

I think you're gonna have some issues with the weight classification. Your "3 simple classes," will create a lot of problems. There are too many gaps for weight to play a serious roll in your bouts. They have the weight classes for a reason: to make sure the fight is on a level playing field and you don't have a fat f#ck laying on a semi-fat f@ck for the whole fight. Also, the man vs. woman will no work IMHO. I think there is too much apprehension and negative connotation when a man fights a woman. Yes, the woman get's clout for beating a guy, but the guy get's the title "Wife beater," or, "He who only beats girls." I think you should rethink your classification for fights.

You're also better off with two 3 minute rounds. They'll get gassed but you won't have two fighters throwing love taps half way through the fight. This seems more fair to the fighters. You have to treat all fighters with the utmost respect. That means more weight classes, shorter rounds multiplied, and seperation of sexes unless a special bout is in line.

Also, I could of sworn that MMA circuit fights were banned in Colorado. When I lived in Denver, I could of sworn I heard something of that nature.

Best of Luck!

Ps. You said you want it as realistic as possible? You shouldn't stop on the ground, but limit it to 30sec of without effective movement or strikes.

[BigPandaBear]

You should use Kyokushin and Daido Juku as examples.

[David Jamieson]

With all of the recent discussion about Final Fu and many more discussions that I've had with my training partners about point sparring, I've been thinking about what it would take to put together a good kung fu tournament.

I live in Colorado and the only martial arts tournaments that we have here are open karate point sparring tournaments.

What I would want to do is create a tournament or tournaments to promote kung fu.

cool

Here are my thoughts so far:
1. This is a fighting tournament only. It would be designed to test your skills in a safe but more realistic manner than point sparring.

Check your local laws both state and smaller to ensure that you don't overstep your boundaries legally.

2. The fights would be 1 five minute round, no breaks.

I would prefer 2 x 3minute rounds with decision if necessary. But sure.

3. The only illegal moves would be shots to the eyes, throat, groin and knees.

You should be able to strike the face anywhere. Make the stipulation to be palms and fists, no biu tze to the eyes in other words.

4. No extra points for fancy 360° kicks.

You shouldn't get any "style points" whatsoever in a fighting contests, that's just wow factor stuff.

5. Extra points for clean takedowns.

How about just takedowns are allowed, fight is decided by kicks and hand strikes points 2 for kick, 1 for strike, 2 for takedown and so on. And real refs, with real eyes need to be used

6. Very few levels. Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced.

Weight classes is better. When it comes down to it, if you don't have confidence or experience then perhaps you shouldn't be on the floor. Fighters are fighters, it's not about which batch is inept and which batch isn't, it's about two people going in and one person coming oout, the victor that is. :P

7. Very few weight categories. Youth, Middle, Heavy

Better to have weight classes. Perhaps you could have a supplementary "style vs style" thing off in one corner where weight was not a factor.

8. Males and females fight each other.

:rolleyes: With true intention in a fighter, statistically and physiologically speaking this isn't really doable. But perhaps in the "style vs style" category, some demonstration event could be held.

These are just some thoughts. I'm really looking for some input into what would make a great kung fu tournament.

Things I have no clue about:
1. Insurance find out, it's important and do your own due diligence 100%

2. Finding a venue. again this is up to you to research, people can suggest various places and give you ideas of where to start. I can't, I don't know any places in Colorado...except south park.

3. organizing the event. you did say that you wanted to do it right?

4. Finding judges and refs. Phonebook, ask questions, local clubs, various sifu could judge students that weren't theirs based purely on points to kick , punch, throw etc or submission, knockout and so on.

All suggestions are welcome but I would really like to hear from some people that have done something like this before. That's the best place to start, but your experience will not exactly be the same as theirs. You'd be surprised about how much legging it yourself you'll be doing if you really want to make it happen.

Thanks in advance.

The number ten.

[CLFLPstudent]

Originally posted by lunghushan:


They say women are weaker and there was this show about that woman that died last year in the U.S. and another woman who got brain damage after a fight. They claimed women's brains and heads are more susceptible to trauma.

But you know what? Only 1 woman has died in boxing in the U.S. since they started but a lot more men have died during the same time period. http://ejmas.com/jcs/jcsart_svinth_a_0700.htm

I haven't looked at your link, but I can guarantee the women are fighting other women, not men. What Chief was suggesting is that men and women fight each other, which I can't see happening in a full-contact match.

-David

[Yum Cha]

Firstly, this is theoretical, right? If you want an insurable, government sanctionable format, you have MMA and San Shou, and all the karate formats where Kung Fu can play.

What you are looking for is a format where Kung Fu can shine, and not get doused by rules that diminish its strengths, yet protect the players from getting maimed or killed, right?

Women vs men? Why? Everybody knows the answer, its not a freak show.

I like the idea of long rounds. Can you say "Rope a dope." Survival is a big part of any fight, as is heart and strategy.

What about the arena? Simple Boxing arena, or mats? Maybe something bigger, something interesting, like a padded platform in the middle or other environmental obsticals to use - use as a mobility tool, leverage point, or whatever. The idea being to add mobility to the game.

If you allow attacks to elbows, like arm bars, why not allow attacks to the knees? Most kung fu guys are trained to deal with lower leg attacks.

Allow groin shots but require Cups. Not shots to the back of the head or the spine as well as eyes and throat.

Bare handed or with MMA Gloves?

Pants and t-shirt, the kind that tears, not something you can use to grapple with extensively, like a gi.

I like the idea of more weight classes. I like the idea of getting an extra point per round for style too.

[bodhitree]

I sure hope I can travel to Colorado for this! I don't think one 5 min round is too long, but I would rather see 3 x 3 min rounds or the like. I also like the open weight classes idea. Keep us informed.

[Chief Fox]

After reading everyone's posts, I'm begining to realize that this is going to be a pretty big task.

I'm pretty sure the following will be my plan of attack.

1. Check Colorado laws to make sure the kind of tournament we're talking about is legal. I'm pretty sure it is. We have some UFC style fights here as well as the standard karate point sparring tournaments. This tournament would fall somewhere in between. But I still intend to check it out thoroughly.

2. After checking the laws, come up with a set of rules, weight classes, categories and tournament format. NO MALE VS. FEMALE MATCHES. Maybe only in a style vs. style exhibition.

This is where all of you can lend a hand. Let me know the kind of tournament that you would attend. Some of you have already given me some great input on this. Thanks.

3. Create a waiver for all participants.

4. Get insurance based on the above so I don't loose my shirt incase someone gets their neck snapped.

5. Find a venue

6. Beg, borrow and steal to fund this whole thing.

7. Promote the he!! out of it.

8. Get T-shirts, sweat shirts and promotional material created.

9. Have an awesome event.

10. Video tape the whole thing and sell the DVD.

11. Do it all again.

[Yao Sing]

We have some UFC style fights here as well as the standard karate point sparring tournaments. This tournament would fall somewhere in between.

Just a thought but maybe for starters you could piggyback on one of the UFC type events. See if you could work a deal for adding a few of your fights on their fight card. Then spin your event off on it's own after testing the waters.

Also, you might want to consider volunteering to work one or two of the other events to get a inside look into the logistics.

I'm sure with the right approach the other organizers will tell you everything you need to know and perhaps help get the first one up and running.