Average Life of a Kung Fu Student

[packard]

Hi Everyone,

Just curious what instructors feel that average time training students stay with you.

I have been working on about three years. Mainly becuase learning curves start to lessen with the need to continue leaning and practising the basics.

Any one else have a view or opionion??

P

[EarthDragon]

6 months.
There are many who seem overly excited about thier art in the beggining............... they are the first ones to quit.
The average student walks in get serious for a while then little by little their class time adsence gets longer and longer.

The sad part is not many people take the thier arts long enough to be able to use them. This is part of the reason so many good arts gets a bap rap.

I had a guy walk in and tell me every art he took sucked in real fighting....I said any art will teach you how to fight, perhaps its you.............

He took 3 months of classes and quit.

[TenTigers]

there are specific times when a student is most likely to quit0usually within the first 100 days.
Next is about the two-year mark, when he reaches an absorbtion level and feels he is plateauing. Any time you hit a plateau, it means you are on the verge of a breakthrough. The strong student (and wise Sifu) will be aware of this and push through and reap the rewards.
Sometimes, at 15-16 they get "too cook for Kung-Fu" but they usually come to their senses about four years later.
Another crucial time is around 17 yrs old-when they get a drivers liscence,a part time job, and discover what their cup has been protecting all these years, and then ...dare I say it...a girlfriend. This spells only one thing in a Kung-Fu career.
DOOM!:eek:

[David Jamieson]

there are specific times when a student is most likely to quit0usually within the first 100 days.
Next is about the two-year mark, when he reaches an absorbtion level and feels he is plateauing. Any time you hit a plateau, it means you are on the verge of a breakthrough. The strong student (and wise Sifu) will be aware of this and push through and reap the rewards.
Sometimes, at 15-16 they get "too cook for Kung-Fu" but they usually come to their senses about four years later.
Another crucial time is around 17 yrs old-when they get a drivers liscence,a part time job, and discover what their cup has been protecting all these years, and then ...dare I say it...a girlfriend. This spells only one thing in a Kung-Fu career.
DOOM!:eek:

uh, all my teachers drove cars and were licensed drivers and as well, they were all married. Having a life shouldn't affect your training or any career.
If it does, well there is something else amiss methinks.

As an aside I think it's just a thing that people try and many don't like. What they really don't like is the aspect of hard work. Many people don't like hard work and so kungfu is not for these people. It cannot be approached half heartedly, It cannot be done with any measure of skill when half measures are taken in training.

You must practiec each day, everyday even if it's just a little and you should practice with full mindfulness of what you are doing and pay attention to even the smallest minutia of what you're doing. At least 3x a week, you must practice with great diligence and for at the very least 1 hour.

If your giving any less, you will reap that reward which is not as much as if you really immerse.

[Oso]

TenTigers is right on.

At the school I was at for the longest (11 years) we would lose them within 3 months, then at blue sash - things got harder then, also about 2 years and then there was what we called 'black sash burnout' that happened right after someone would get their first black sash around the 5 year mark.

10% of 10% of 10% is what I always say. only 1 in 10 will get past the first couple of months; 1 in 10 past 2 years and 1 in 10 past 5.

[TenTigers]

uh, all my teachers drove cars and were licensed drivers and as well, they were all married. Having a life shouldn't affect your training or any career.

were they 17? :rolleyes:

[qiphlow]

at our school, the instuctors have been there for anywhere from 9 years (me) to 30+ years. we've got lots of students who have been there for more than 5 years, which i think if you can get thru 5 years, you are likely to stay. but we have far more who only go less than a year, and then you call them to find out what happened, and they always say they'll be back, but of course you never see them...

[David Jamieson]

A teenager shouldn't have to not have a life anymore than his teacher is what I'm saying tt.

Growing up has it's parts and they should not be discluded and rather should be encouraged to integrate into ones training schedule so that all of it can be accomodated.

age shouldn't matter. peoples lives change daily, the thing is when you have kungfu as a constant and you enjoy it, you find a way to make it all play nice together as opposed to just denying it outright.

[Judge Pen]

That's why if you own a school you should recruit hot women to be in your classes--strippers, cheerleaders etc. Eye candy keeps the adolescent male in your school! :p

[David Jamieson]

you will indeed catch more flies with honey than you will with vinegar.

[Judge Pen]

Every strip club I go to, I wrap a business card in a dollar bill. :p

[Oso]

That's why if you own a school you should recruit hot women to be in your classes--strippers, cheerleaders etc. Eye candy keeps the adolescent male in your school! :p

that's always been my plan. ;)


and, again, my experience is like 10T's. I lost a good one when he started driving and dating....all because of the girls.

And, another place you can lose teens is when they get old enough for sports at school. getting ready to lose another one to that. FTR, i'm not knocking sports in school but if you get a kid in martial arts, most likely it's a one off...as in you don't have his buddies from school and when they are all going out for soccer or whatever you could lose one to peer pressure. I've definitely got mixed feelings about losing this kid though. He was a soft little kid getting picked on in 5th grade because he had 'boobs' and now he's a much more aggressive 7th grader that I'll take some credit for.

[qiphlow]

i'm all for recruitng strippers to join our school. prostitues, too. we could have special after hours training sessions just for them:cool:

[Ray Pina]

I started karate when I was 4 .... quit when I was 12.

Went to the college club a few times, didn;t like it, never went back but it motivated me to go back to my original dojo. Went back two or three times. Just wasn't ready.

Moved to NY. Trained for 4 or 5 years with two different teachers. The last year was the best, fighting with gear. Motivated me. Found my master.

First year and a half stoked on new material. Second year and a half disapointed that we didn't spar (internal school:) ) and started missing when the waves were good.

Started doing more sets with boxing gloves. Got into it more. Lost my first San Da fight. Got mad about no sparring. Then got over it. Got more relaxed and casual about training.

Had a few big leaps after learning from the fight, master fixed specific areas for me. Started fighting out. Won. Felt good.

Went back into the ring. Lost again, broke my nose. Learned some more lessons.

Now training harder than ever and getting ready to cage match for first time.


It's like life. Up and down but it keeps going and you never know what's going to happen tomorrow.

Sometimes a little break is good. It's good to get away. But train more than you don't.

[WinterPalm]

But train more than you don't.

That quote pretty much sums it up.

I've seen people go from three months to a year or a bit more before they stop coming. Or the sloths that continue to come to class despite never practicing on their own time!

I've only been here for five years so I have not seen a lot of people but I have seen a decent amount.

Some things that discourage people:

-Sifu doesn't teach for money so you don't get what you pay for. You get what you work for and earn.

-Kung Fu is very difficult both mentally and physically.

-You won't learn it all after six months or five years. Doesn't matter how good and how dedicated you are.

-If you don't get the lesson you don't get the next one.

-Sifu isn't going to feed your ego.

-Humility: If you know it all then why not start your own school?

-Effort and time can be difficult when MTV and CNN bring you all you need to know if 15 Sec blurbs.

-Every level has lessons and tests that get harder and harder.

-It is not easy.

[wall]

My experience since opening my school in september 2004 (so two years in one week time) has been roughly as follows:

30% quit within 6 months
20% quit within 1 year
10% quit within 1.5 years
40% remain past 1.5 years

I do however think we have unusually high retention rates; also our classes are currently attended by students ranging in age from 16 to 46, so it's a relatively "stable" demographic compared perhaps to younger kids who try many things and have less dedication to a single long-term activity.

On a side note mentioned above ... we have 4 female fashion models doing the class (one joined because she thought it was a great workout and then brought along her friends, to whom we have given amply discounted fees - they usually get free gym memberships through their modelling agency): they certainly make a huge impression on people coming for trial classes :) Also the male students certainly put in extra efforts when the girls are around ... ;)

Wall

[omarthefish]

Every strip club I go to, I wrap a business card in a dollar bill. :p

No wonder the girls at your place are so skanky. You should start using 20's and see what happens. . . :p

[ZhuiQuan]

Are you guys sure the students who left your schools really quit... or just moved on to another school and continued training in Martial Arts?

[David Jamieson]

Are you guys sure the students who left your schools really quit... or just moved on to another school and continued training in Martial Arts?

No doubt some do. Some people are in and out for years and get nowhere because they hop around and take too long of a break in their training.
Inconsistency = it's not worth bothering at all really.

I would say that the vast majority who quit, stay quit, while some others will do the inconsistency cycle and get nowhere and others still, the smallest portion will continue on.

this is just my own experience though. Let's face it, there is an innate tendency in modern humans that live in developed nations to be lazy ass. If this wasn't true, why is obesity a problem in our developed nations? Why do people from 25 on not adopt exercise regimens. Why do we even have such a thing as middle age spread? lol.

It boils down to the easier life gets, the less yoru average person will feel compelled to do whether it's worthwhile or not. People will do what they want and for the most part, people want to chill and hang. Which is cool, but when taken in large doses are really just dead time in your life that you can't get back and haven't accomplished anything with.

[ZhuiQuan]

Middle Age Spread? hahahaha

I've never heard of it. What is that exactly? Do I even want to know?

[shiyonghua]

to follow a little more on what ZhuiQuan asked:

there are definitely those people who see a "kung fu" movie then sign up the next day only to see a surfing movie the next week and take that instead; I wonder, however, how many of these students simply decided that the school/art/shifu was not right for them or what they expected . . . just noting a possibility . . .
whether or not they continued training elsewhere is another story

[BoulderDawg]

I do however think we have unusually high retention rates; also our classes are currently attended by students ranging in age from 16 to 46, so it's a relatively "stable" demographic compared perhaps to younger kids who try many things and have less dedication to a single long-term activity.


I'm a little surprised that your oldest student is only 46. We have about a half dozen students in their 50s maybe even 60s.

One thing that I think helps retention is to come in around the same time as 4-5 other students. I did that and we formed a bond. We kinda formed our own little support group and we are all still in the program.

[5Animals1Path]

One thing that I think helps retention is to come in around the same time as 4-5 other students. I did that and we formed a bond. We kinda formed our own little support group and we are all still in the program.

Definetly. That's the reason why the two guys I train with and me are still there. I was already friends with one before the school, and started within 6 months of the other, and now the 3 of us spend most of our time hanging out and training together. Consequently, we're all working on year 3 or 4.

[wall]

I'm a little surprised that your oldest student is only 46. We have about a half dozen students in their 50s maybe even 60s.

Hi Boulder, I think it's because our classes are athletically quite intensive and most older people feel it's too much for them when they come to see. We had a few people in their late 40s early 50s come and see a class but they didn't join afterwards.
The one exception was a 62 y.o. man who not only joined but was with us for 1 year before retiring and moving to another city: however he came from a lifetime of fitness and at the time was competing in weekend running events and even did a half marathon ... so he wasn't the average 62 y.o. :)

W

[BoulderDawg]

Hi Boulder, I think it's because our classes are athletically quite intensive and most older people feel it's too much for them when they come to see. We had a few people in their late 40s early 50s come and see a class but they didn't join afterwards.

I think there's a case to made for being too physically demanding. I take Kung Fu for fun and fellowship. If it ever got to be marine boot camp 2-3 nights a week I probably wouldn't be there.

[David Jamieson]

fun and fellowship are fine, but they aren't my prime reasons for studying Kungfu.
They're more of a side effect of a group that shares common ground and experience.

you'll get more fellowship out of shared hard experience. :p

some stuff is too demanding for people early on and any program should gradually build and improve the students to deal with more and more hardship in teh regimen as time passes.

If the process is designed correctly and the student practices, then it's surprising to see what someone can become capable of that they couldn't do before in as short a time span as a year.

flexibility, strength and endurance are the first things youll see in someone.
skill and ability to apply it comes later and is dependent upon ability to teach and ability to understand. Former being the teachers role and latter being the students.

[wall]

I think there's a case to made for being too physically demanding. I take Kung Fu for fun and fellowship. If it ever got to be marine boot camp 2-3 nights a week I probably wouldn't be there.

I agree completely :)

However as it would be impossible to make a 'fits-all' program I decided to structure it on a format that best fits my strenghts as a teacher, that can appeal to a reasonably active and numerous age group, and that also is coherent with my martial arts past and how my Masters taught me.

So the program presented and the class structure is quite phisically challenging, and consequently our core demographic (80% of students) is 18 to 35 and reasonably athletic.

As my school is expanding (we have grown from 2 to 55 students in 2 years) I am however thinking in the future of adding a secondary class called Shaolin Fitness, aimed at older people and other students (we already have some in the normal Shaolin WuShu class) which are mostly doing it only as an alternate form of fitness regime and have little interest in combat applications, advanced forms, sanda, acrobatics, endless sets of kicks or squat-jumps ...

So probably at the start of 2007 the courses will split in Shaolin WuShu (the full martial arts program, 3 nights a week x 2 hours per class as currently) and Shaolin Fitness (a greatly diluted Shaolin Ji Ben Gong program, 2 nights a week x 1 hour per class).

Wall

[neit]

variety may be to blame too. you cant really tell wether you like soemthing from watching 1 class. thus people sign up for 3 months then decide wether to continue. these days there are tons of choices other than karotty and karotty. doing some tire kicking before you commit a number of years is pretty natural.

[neit]

some other reasons

-some places are just crappy

-its not enough excercise, which seems to me is more common in tma than being too demanding

-being too picky. i left one of the best schools for some of the stupidest reasons. just minor things that you will run into anywhere. i was too hasty in quitting after less than a year. "R" who is affiliated with them even tried to talk to me after i voiced some of my problems on here. did i listen? nope. lost a great opportunity.

[BoulderDawg]

some other reasons

-some places are just crappy

-its not enough excercise, which seems to me is more common in tma than being too demanding

-being too picky. i left one of the best schools for some of the stupidest reasons. just minor things that you will run into anywhere. i was too hasty in quitting after less than a year. "R" who is affiliated with them even tried to talk to me after i voiced some of my problems on here. did i listen? nope. lost a great opportunity.


I mean unless you made some sort of hugh scene or got mad and tore the place apart then why couldn't you go back?

Go back, get up in front of the entire school and apologize and ask it you come come back.

[lunghushan]

Can people really teach martial arts the way they used to anymore, though? Read ... teach people effective martial arts?

I mean, hitting people in sparring, throwing people around, etc.? It seems there would be too much liability and people wouldn't want to do that sort of thing.

Schools don't seem to train like that anymore, the way they used to.

[neit]

i live in a different country. and i am happy with with my training so its all good.