Help! I've lost my bottle....

[Su Lin]

As much as I hate to admit it, I have recently lost my bottle when it comes to sparring. I had 2 months off for a back injury and returned to training about a month ago, and I don't seem to be able to spar without being terrified!
I kind of feel intimidated sparring against the guys (I'm the only girl in the club)as they are getting much stronger and I don't seem to be. I realise that I need to put in extra training (I currently do 4 sessions per week) and need to start doing some kind of strength training , but just wondered if anyone had any advice that could help me mentally!
I do seem to suffer from massive fear in all the sports I do, I'm quite good at skiing but too scared to do black runs, and mountain biking I'm too scared to go down rocky downhills!
Perhaps I need a self help book...:(

[Scott R. Brown]

Hi Su Lin,

Just accept your fear and don't fight it, but at the same time dont let your fear stop you. Face it as your nerves allow. When you start to become overwhelmed then take a break. By facing your fears you will conquer them. Dont over do it. Start out sparring with smaller or less aggressive partners if you have the choice. Mention your fear to your instructor and ask him to work with you to overcome it.

With experience and skill your fear will dissapate on its own. Try not to become too preoccupied with the "feeling" of fear, acknowledge it then try to let it go!

As long as you do not let your fear defeat you, you will prevail over it, that means dont give up or allow it to conquer you. Just refuse to be defeated, this is an act of will! Face your fears in small increments.

Good Luck!

[Pork Chop]

Work on speed and technique, the power will come.
Speed and technique kill strength and power every time.
Look at Muhammed Ali vs Sonny Liston 1 and 2 for proof.
Heck, watch Floyd Mayweather Jr vs Diego Corrales if that's not good enough.

I imagine your added fear is slowing you down a bit, making you more self conscious of what you're doing.
You need to build up your confidence slowly first.
Working on your reflexes should help too- so you can read & control a situation instead of just trying to react & letting it overwhelm you.

Actual drills:
footwork drills (if they can't catch you they can't hit you),
hand eye coordination drills (get your targeting & dexterity back),
attack-defense drills (to get your reactions & confidence back),
and practise perfect form when you punch or kick (so perfect form comes out when you spar, perfect form = great power - not muscular strength).

[BoulderDawg]

It sounds like a fear of getting hurt that probably goes back to childhood.

How old are you? The older you get the harder this will be to change. However the only thing I could recommend is to just keep doing it and gain some confidence. That's the only way.

Of course this covers a broad spectrum from people who are afraid to leave the house for fear of getting hurt to people who have no fear of anything (Many of these people wind up dead).

You sound a little left of center here. Be thankful that you are not at one of the two extremes. However if you continue to do this and you're absolutely frightened to death and hate it then think about doing something else.......no shame in that.

[lunghushan]

It's only natural that you'll be afraid of things that can cause you injury.

As you get more into it you'll probably be better, but think about it. Everything you mentioned you can get hurt doing.

So you basically have to decide, is it worth it possibly injured. Maybe if you toughen yourself up, work on your conditioning, then you won't worry so much about getting hit.

Although I have no idea how it is for women, so I'm kindof talking out of my back end here.

Oh, the other thing I was thinking about last night is ...

Imagine the guys in bunny suits. Soft, fluffy bunny suits ... something non-threatening.

[Su Lin]

Thanks for the advice, some good thoughts there! Yes it's only natural to fear what hurts you . It didnt bother me when i was younger, I regularly fell off horses, went sailing in fast dinghys and rode my bike down ridiculous steps. Now Im older (29 although a lady should never reveal her age!) it's probably just sense stepping in really. I doubt Ill give it up as its too big a part of my life, but I think I'll step up the conditioning and strength training a level. I'm normally quite fast and get them with really quick punches to the stomach or head, as I know Ill never be as strong. Im also going to work on speed in getting in and back out again using my reach more.
I think the more I do it the less Ill fear it, and yes, I will try imagining the pink bunny suits!:p

[lunghushan]

Yeah it seems like as people get older they start to realize their mortality.

When they're younger they think they're invincible.

When you get older you tend to be more cautious, which isn't necessarily wrong, because all those little gotchas you get when you're younger can start to add up when you're older. Plus you don't heal as fast.

So play safe ... and don't feel bad, you're just getting wiser is all.

[Royal Dragon]

Yeah, that is so true. I was just camping at Starved rock. As I hiked, I saw all these crazy climbs I used to do, and I cannot even imagine being dumb enough to try it now. but when I was younger, i didn't think twice about being 50 to 100 feet +, up on slippery sandstone......

[FuXnDajenariht]

what i wanna know is. what does lost my bottle mean? :D

thats Britspeak right?

[wiz cool c]

Find a Judo school they train sparring very scientifically. Beginners spar with black belts and they kinda play with you,let you throw them and stuff. Then as you get better you get more resistance before you know you are good. The whole time you feel like you are playing. Kung Fu just doesn't train sparring scientifically. Most schools do form for 98% of the time then put on gear and beat the **** out of each other. This type of training will make most people scared.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

just tote royce gracie around with you on a leash. if anyone threatens you while sparring he'll choke them out. before you know it you'll be beating everyone in the class.

i dont think he has a career anymore so he should be available.

[Su Lin]

Yep, losing your bottle is definitely a Brit thing, although not sure where the term comes from!

I just think I'm going to possibly not spar against the bigger guys for a while, just until I get back into it . Also going to learn how to get that steely look in my eye and learn to believe in myself a bit more too! I think I think about things too much too! I'll stand at the top of a black run and think about what I'm about to do rather than just getting on and doing it , and tend to analyse things more , which again I suppose is just the getting older thing really.
I think its a crisis of confidence thing resulting from being off for a while , and should start thinking about what my strengths and achievements are rather than looking at what I can;t do all the time. Measuring myself against other people and what they have achieved rather than what I have achieved myself! Although still looking to improve my weaknesses etc.:rolleyes:
Off to kick the **** out of the punch bag now.....

[lunghushan]

Find a Judo school they train sparring very scientifically. Beginners spar with black belts and they kinda play with you,let you throw them and stuff. Then as you get better you get more resistance before you know you are good. The whole time you feel like you are playing. Kung Fu just doesn't train sparring scientifically. Most schools do form for 98% of the time then put on gear and beat the **** out of each other. This type of training will make most people scared.

Yeah, don't know why this is. The Japanese training methods seem more mature.

As for the 'lost my bottle' thing, I always assumed it meant lost your bottle of alcohol, because when people are drunk their inhibitions tend to go down, and they have more 'nerve' (hence all the fights that start in bars). But it could mean something entirely different.

[Su Lin]

Ah, good thinking on the bottle thing Lunghushan!

Also interesting about the Judo thing, but want to continue with kung fu as love it generally!
Had a word with my teacher, who is going to keep an eye on things and other people. He has seen people fail gradings in the past as a result of going too hard on opponents who may not be as strong or big as they are.
I'm going to spar against the guys who don't go as hard- although they don't go easy on me. It's a matter of control Im beginning to realise. THe guys that make me nervous have little control. I'm quite happy sparring against my teacher- he can hit/kick and it doesn't seem to hurt ,as he has amazing control. Whereas the other ,less experienced guys have little control and it can hurt like hell if they catch you .
Interestingly, I'm doing knife defences at the moment, and realising I can get the knife off someone without using much force at all- working on putting just enough pressure on the joints to make them drop it.Seems to be my "special move" ! That's getting my confidence back which is great.
Think it'll gradually come back, with a bit of self belief!

[lunghushan]

I'm going to spar against the guys who don't go as hard- although they don't go easy on me. It's a matter of control Im beginning to realise. THe guys that make me nervous have little control. I'm quite happy sparring against my teacher- he can hit/kick and it doesn't seem to hurt ,as he has amazing control. Whereas the other ,less experienced guys have little control and it can hurt like hell if they catch you .

Yeah, mid-level people are dangerous because they tend to have enough skills to hurt somebody but lack control. If you can play with the higher level people that should be better for you.

[Su Lin]

Good thinking! I like to think that I'm quite controlled myself , and will certainly learn more from the "better" guys. A couple are really good at giving advice. I think I was more worried about saying to those that I dont want to go against that I didnt want to spar with them! Could always try disappearing to the toilet if it ends up that Im against them! Luckily now my teacher knows, he will understand why I'm not going against them and won't put me against them. I'm just too polite !:p

[lunghushan]

Good thinking! I like to think that I'm quite controlled myself , and will certainly learn more from the "better" guys. A couple are really good at giving advice. I think I was more worried about saying to those that I dont want to go against that I didnt want to spar with them! Could always try disappearing to the toilet if it ends up that Im against them! Luckily now my teacher knows, he will understand why I'm not going against them and won't put me against them. I'm just too polite !:p

Yeah I don't know strategy. In Judo, I used to regularly have to train with this brown belt who just loved to take me up as high as possible before bringing me crashing down as hard as possible. Several times he took me up over his head.

Walked away from that one quite a few times with bruises. I just tried staying away from him and played with the black belts instead. They did the exact same thing but the angle was a little different so I didn't get bruises when I did my breakfalls.

[Su Lin]

Was just about to write - "Ouch and I dont even know what a ....... is " then you edited your post! Was about to have a !"I dont get it cause Im English moment! Don't fancy much falling at the moment as just returned from a training break as a result of a back injury! Probably why Im a bit nervous, as one of the less controlled guys is capable of injuring it again. :mad:

[lunghushan]

Was just about to write - "Ouch and I dont even know what a ....... is " then you edited your post! Was about to have a !"I dont get it cause Im English moment! Don't fancy much falling at the moment as just returned from a training break as a result of a back injury! Probably why Im a bit nervous, as one of the less controlled guys is capable of injuring it again. :mad:

Oh, I put charlie horse, which is wrong, I guess.

That's what we used to call a very deep bruise in the thigh muscle, but I looked it up to make sure the usage, and evidently that's actually a cramp, not a bruise.

(Actually I looked it up again, and I guess that is a bruise ... who knows).

[5Animals1Path]

I hate to say this, but don't be so polite! ;)


Don't be mean or anything, but you telling the guys who have less control might actually be good for them too. Make sure they know why you're worried, and tell them to maybe try a different technique. I've learned more then half of my control from just being the big lumoux and having to take it a bit easier on people who can't deal with my (admitedlly small amount of) skill or strength (which I'm told I still don't quite realize). If they're not willing to work with you, they're not worth training with, plain and simple. If they are, then you get to help them learn control, whilst also slowly hacking away at your own fear.


Two birds, one shuriken. :D

[Mr Punch]

A lot of people here have already given you some good suggestions.

5A1P has a good suggestion too, which is to speak to people. In my schools, my teachers have always stressed to mention if you still have injuries or fears of injuries, so tell the less skilled and more dangerous to go easy until you get your confidence back.

And it all comes back to practice practice practice. I've never had fear of sparring or grading or new people, but I did noticed teaching a bunch of kids English at a summer camp this year: they started off terrified but as the practice went on they grew and grew until they could do it naturally and by themselves! Obvious really, but needs to be reiterated.

Fuxn: It means losing your courage/nerve. We also say 'bottle it'... in English...! Not 'Britspeak' whatever that is! :D
Dunno what you say in American. 'Lose your sh!t'?

[lunghushan]

Dunno what you say in American. 'Lose your sh!t'?

What, who says Americans ever lose their nerve? ;)

[Mr Punch]

What, who says Americans ever lose their nerve? ;)Yo mamma! :D

[lunghushan]

Seriously, does American English even have slang for this?

Maybe 'off your game'? 'Gun shy'?

Other descriptions are more temporary ... wussed out ... wimped out ...

Or maybe just 'lost it'? Could mean, lost nerve, lost temper, lost skill ...

[Su Lin]

Well, I agree with all of you! I should speak to them as it should help them in the long run. My teacher tells him quite regularly about control - he's an ex Wado Ryu student (not that that has anything to do with it!)
ONce I was sparring and a guy had just split up with his girlfriend, and more or less admitted that he was particularly agressive with me that night because I was a woman! I was really quite shocked ! What am I, the class punch bag!:mad:
He has since learned his lesson though!
Off to train soon, was inspired by watching Masterkiller (1&2) yesterday!

[MasterKiller]

Off to train soon, was inspired by watching Masterkiller (1&2) yesterday!

That was you outside my window?!

[Su Lin]

Yes. :o I keep checking your posts just to see the picture of Gordon Liu.
Perhaps there should be a confession thread somewhere on here!:p

[wuzuquan]

Two points to cover

1st

Losing your bottle originates from London ****ney slang. It refers to 'Shi****' yourself. Your backside was originally known as your 'Arris' coming from the name Aristotle. Aristotle refers to 'bottle' coming from the slang of 'bottle of glass' meaning 'Arse' so losing your bottle actually means losing your bottles of glass - arse and well making a mess.

2nd point

Sparring is a tool, an exercise in order to help you develop your techniques into applicable and useable techniques. Remeber this and use it as such. Unfortunalty a big part of any fighting is getting hit. This helps build up some resistance and familiarity. The more youget hit the less it will affect you ( to a degree anyway).

I remeber the first time i got proper 'clocked' really hurt and was something i wouldnot want to repeat, however, now figthing full contact , whether in the gym on the street or on a door doesnt really matter. A few bruises result, nothing more.

There are other tools available in chinese martial arts to help you get the best from sparring such as pushing hands, sticky hands, one step sparring ( if done correctly) and if your forms have catching sets.

Above all enjoy it cos its an experience in a controlled environment that is there to benefit you....

regards

[Su Lin]

I seem to be much better at things such as sticking hands, or just light sparring without pads. I think once I pad up, the kung fu becomes something completely different, more kickboxing. Its a though it doesnt feel like kung fu, and thats probably because I havent been doing it long enough for it to have become "natural" yet. Our teacher ,when padded up still uses amazing technique and you can tell he is doing kung fu. So I'm thinking that its the psychological thing of putting pads on maybe? I used to be goalkeeper in hockey, and as soon as the pads went on, that was it, the nerves kicked in !
I did a bit of pad sparring last night, working on my kicks, as at the moment its pretty obvious when Im going to do one.
Sorry, its turning into more of a training blog! Thanks for all the advice so far though , its made me realise that what Im feeling is more normal!

[wuzuquan]

its a common problem and most people tend not to fix it. If your saprring os different from the technques that you practice in your class then you need to ask yourself why?

If the answer is that what you do in class doesnt work when sparring then you need to ask why you practice it.

If your sparring requires something different from your froms / techniques then it is generally down to not being able to apply your techniques. Use pushing hands , etc to experiment and try to apply them.

Sparring isnt about winning or losing or defending yourself, its about using the opportunity to try stuff and find how techniques work. Its a safe environment so use it as such.

I do alot of training with MMA guys who take the **** out of traditional Martial arts and by applying my techniques it's possible to control and defeat them. BUtthis can only come about by being able to properly apply your techniques. That means many hours of frustration and hard work in order to get them to work.

[Su Lin]

I agree. I think because I had never done any MA before, it has all been really new to me, and definitely takes time to get practising "real" technique in sparring. Our teacher is getting us to think about using technique when sparring now, which is all kind of beginning to make sense. I'm also trying to do more work without the pads, just to start thinking properly about what Im using. i'm realising now that it does take time , and getting used to hitting someone, which isnt natural ,to me anyway, takes time . It's a really good point abot not being all about winning. One of the guys who I dont want to spar with is all about hte winning at the moment, and doesnt really seem to try out new techniques, but just throwing big punches and spinning kicks that he hasnt got the hang of yet!

[wuzuquan]

You could use that guy as an example...If he is bigger than you your objective then must be to make sure you dont get hit ( or at least get hit less!) so when sparring him concentrate on not getting hit whilst getting your hits in.

He will soon get ****ed off hitting fresh air.

Fighting is about timing and distance. If you can be at the right distance at the right time you'll be successful.

keep at it though as the more you do the better you get....

There was a famous golfer (gary Player I think) who after sinking a chip shot on the 18th green at St Andrews to win the open was being interviewed for TV. The TV guy said ' wow what a lucky shot to win the open with ?!"

Gary Player replied ' Its funny, the harder i pratcise the luckier i get !"