HFY Workshop in Dayton, Oct. 21-21

[VTM]

All:

Grand Master Garrett Gee, inheritor of the Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun System, will be coming to Dayton on Friday October 20th to Sunday October 22nd. During his visit, we will be having several special events:

A two-day public workshop on Saturday and Sunday open to all

A public dinner/banquet on Saturday night, open to all students and families

This is a great opportunity to meet the Grand Master of the Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun kung fu family. He's been involved with martial arts since he was 5 years old, learning his family's kung fu system. Grand Master Gee's father, Grand Master Peter Kim Ho Chu, was a direct student of many famous masters in China and holds the title of successor to many rare types of kung fu. Grand Master Gee's Grand Father was the General in charge of the Wong Bo Military Academy, similar to West Point here in the United States.

Dinner with the Grand Master is a fascinating time as he shares many stories from his life in China, growing up under the Cultural Revolution, and learning martial arts both inside and outside his family's kung fu.

The topic of the workshop is going to be on the Ng Lonn Ying Jong Faat, the Five Wheel Reactional Drill. This exercise is a stage in the Kwan Sau Kiu Sau. Kwan Sau Kiu Sau is part of the Sei Bun Dim Kiu Sau (4 1/2 point kiu sau) logic flow in training. Sei Bun Dim Kiu Sau is taught in several progressions:

Sei Dim Bun Kiu Sau, 4 1/2 Point Kiu Sau
==========================
Fau Kiu Kiu Sau
Faat Sau Kiu Sau
Deui Ying Kiu Sau
Bong Laap Kiu Sau
Kwan Sau Kiu Sau

Ng Lonn Ying Jong Faat, five progressions
==========================
Ying - Shape
Chung - Force
Lau - Flow
Saat - Strike
Fa - Neutralize

Even if you have limited Kiu Sau experience, this will be a great workshop - a real eye opener in terms of understanding Kiu Sau, energy, and inside the box training.

Contact the Ving Tsun Museum for further details, lodging and workshop pricing:

Ving Tsun Museum
5715 Brandt Pike
Dayton, OH 45324
(937) 236-6485 (ph/fx)
host @ vtmuseum.org

[canglong]

he topic of the workshop is going to be on the Ng Lonn Ying Jong Faat, the Five Wheel Reactional Drill. This exercise is a stage in the Kwan Sau Kiu Sau. Kwan Sau Kiu Sau is part of the Sei Bun Dim Kiu Sau (4 1/2 point kiu sau) logic flow in training. Sei Bun Dim Kiu Sau is taught in several progressions: Genuine martial artist who might want to take advantage of this topic being demonstrated to the general public for the first time should really consider attending this historical event.

[VTM]

For anyone that can't make it to the MidWest, there will be another workshop in the West, November 4th and 5th.

1) Event Name
HFY Public Workshop

2) Start/End Date
November 4th and 5th (Sat/Sun)
9:30-4:30, 1 hr lunch (both days)

3) Location of Event: Phoenix, AZ
Meng's Martial Arts of Arizona
931 E. Elliott Rd. Suite 114
Tempe, AZ 85284

4) Description of Event
This seminar is open to the public. Grand Master Gee, inheritor of the HFY System, will personally present the system.

5) Price
Contact host for price and hours

6) Contact Information:
Master Richard Loewenhagen
Meng's Martial Arts of Arizona
931 E. Elliott Rd. Suite 114
Tempe, AZ 85284
(480) 820-2428 - phone
(480) 820-0222 - fax
www.mengsofaz.com
director@mengsofaz.com

[Chango]

I look forward to this event! Hope to see some of you there! :D

[passing_through]

Grand Master Gee presents an impressive workshop. His family martial arts background is extensive and the Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun system is impressive. I’ve always known Grand Master Gee to be warm and open to all martial arts families and backgrounds. This will be a great workshop if you can make it.

[VTM]

The material covered will be a brand new topic – Ng Lonn Ying Jong Faat. This information was only recently taught to members of the Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun family and is being opened up to the public for the first time in these workshops.

Based on the VTM’s research, HFY is quite unique in the way the system breaks down the progressions of Chi Sau training. In the Wing Chun community, we use the phrase “Chi Sau” as an umbrella to cover a lot of training methods. In the HFY family, however, “Chi Sau” refers to a specific area of training in the continuum of fighting skills. The basic logic flow in the HFY family covers four areas: Kiu Sau, Chi Kiu, Chi Sau, and Saan Da.

Here is a brief description of HFY’s training methods:

Kiu Sau trains how to maintain your space and time when initially engaging with an opponent, dealing with long (extended) bridges, and how to use the forearm to keep an opponent from penetrating deeper into your space. It is quite extensive in training methods and skill development. Kiu Sau consists of two major training modules: Sei Dim Bun Kiu Sau (mentioned above) and Saam Sing Jong Kiu Sau (Three Star Structure Bridge Hand). Included in these training modules are additional footwork and facing exercises such as the Baai Jong Baat Bo Jin (Place Structure Eight Step Battle) – which is both a pattern of movement and a series of partner exercises.

Chi Kiu trains a timeframe when you’re already engaged with an opponent, dealing with how to handle struggle, trapping, and grappling (anti-grab training).

Chi Sau trains a timeframe when you’re squared up, control the high ground (the centerline), break structure, and ultimately the ability to control an opponent’s time and space.

The first three progressions involve constant contact (or bridging). The energy is constantly on, coming from proper mechanics and structure (not leaning, not muscling).

Saan Da trains how to handle on/off energy and eventually progresses into free challenge.

Anyone that is interested in Wing Chun history or the connection between Wing Chun and Chan or even the above Kiu Sau progression, this workshop is guaranteed to be an eye-opener. We, at the VTM, are excited to host Grand Master Gee.

[Chango]

This workshop will offer more then just drilling and discussion of application. It promises to shed light on connections from a technical,historical, and phylosophical perspective as well! ;)

[Da_Moose]

I'm looking forward to the workshop. They always open my eyes to new things and are well worth the time and energy to attend! I always learn something and walk away with a new and greater appreciation of the martial arts.

[Chango]

I'm looking forward to the fellowship these events bring. I think the subject matter promises to shed light on quite a few things from the Hung Fa Yi perspective.



Sei Dim Bun Kiu Sau, 4 1/2 Point Kiu Sau
==========================
Fau Kiu Kiu Sau
Faat Sau Kiu Sau
Deui Ying Kiu Sau
Bong Laap Kiu Sau
Kwan Sau Kiu Sau

Ng Lonn Ying Jong Faat, five progressions
==========================
Ying - Shape
Chung - Force
Lau - Flow
Saat - Strike
Fa - Neutralize


This platform can set the stage for deep insight. I'm really looking forward to this event!

Chango

[ChangHFY]

Hey everyone,


This workshop with Grandmaster Gee is definately going to be one of a kind, especially with the topic of workshop being Sei Dim Bun Kiu Sau. This should be awesome!! To have not only the wealth of knowledge that Grandmaster Gee has, but also the advanced discussion of the Kiu Sau progression. This would definately be worth it for all ages and ranks to attend this workshop, I can guarantee that anyone who attends will get something out of this workshop.
Also Kiu Sau in itself is also relative to most Chinese Martial Arts besides Wing Chun. So this would be a great opportunity for all Martial Artist in general to further there knowledge of Kiu Sau Methods, and Martial Arts period.
I cant wait to attend this monumental workshop.


take care,
zai jian

[Chango]

Hello forum!
Just for the point of discussion. I would like to maybe hear a few perspectives on kiu sau and how it may relate to other lineages systems etc..... Now having said this I would like to open the floor for discussion on how the different lineages and systems relate to kiu sau. I think this will be a great topic of discussion. :D

[Mike M]

This truly is a great opportunity. I'm always amazed at the depth of knowledge there is given at every one of Grandmaster Gee's seminars. It adds a new dimension to my understanding. If you have the opportunity I strongly urge you to attend.


Sincerely,

Mike

[wingchunKid]

hi all.

i see all my hfy brothers(and sisters) are very much excited with the upcoming hfy seminar. i can't blame you guys. you have all the reasons to be excited believe me. when gm garret gee first introduced Ng Lonn Ying Jong Faat, i said wow! my body had a glimpse of what weng kiu is at a distance specially during the energy application.

from a student's perspective, pay more closely with ying for this is what differentiates hung fa yi from the rest of the wing chun branch. without first stablishing ying, it's going to be chung all the time which is undesirable because this is how your opponent can get to you. in ying time, space, and energy is at your side but not in the case of chung. in short, when you engage your opponent, are you in ying or chung time frame. do you have the structure or are you crashing with your opponent? now does this sound something like weng kiu or not? after attending the seminar i am sure everyone will understand what i mean.:D


qoute from master meng:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chi Kiu trains a timeframe when you’re already engaged with an opponent, dealing with how to handle struggle, trapping, and grappling (anti-grab training).
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
very true master meng. and if i may add, chi kiu means sticking with the bridge focusing on four points and using two of these points to take down your opponent. this is truly a martial science! gm gee demonstrated how by just attacking any of these two points in chi kiu time frame can take down a opponent. 4 points of focus and 2 point attack eliminates the grunt work and the mumbo-jumbo in taking down even a bigger opponent.

i wish you all a fruitfull and succesful seminar. i know everone envolve is busy preparing specially our grandmaster garret gee who now is a hardcore trantic buddhist practitioner.

i leave you with peace.

wingchunKid

www.hungfayi.com
www.hfy108.com
www.hungfayiireland.com/24html.pdf

[duende]

The topic of the workshop is going to be on the Ng Lonn Ying Jong Faat, the Five Wheel Reactional Drill. This exercise is a stage in the Kwan Sau Kiu Sau. Kwan Sau Kiu Sau is part of the Sei Bun Dim Kiu Sau (4 1/2 point kiu sau) logic flow in training. Sei Bun Dim Kiu Sau is taught in several progressions:

Sei Dim Bun Kiu Sau, 4 1/2 Point Kiu Sau
==========================
Fau Kiu Kiu Sau
Faat Sau Kiu Sau
Deui Ying Kiu Sau
Bong Laap Kiu Sau
Kwan Sau Kiu Sau



Small correction... Actually Sei Dim Bun Kiu Sau is:

Faat Sau Kiu Sau (Fau Kiu Kiu Sau and Faat Sau Kiu Sau are one in the same)
Deui Ying Kiu Sau
1/2 point Kiu Sau
Bong Lop Kiu Sau
Kwan Sau Kiu Sau

Best,

[John2004]

I was wondering if there will any Hung Fa Yi videos in the future?

I heard alot about the system and read the book. The style sounds very interesting due to the history and use of words like .. battle arrays, matrix time, battlefields, wing chun formula, time space temporal...

But I feel the stuff written here about Fan Kui, Kiu Sao only make sense to someone who is studying your system. A regular person studying Yip Man wing chun will find it makes no sense because we don't have these concepts in Yip Man's style.

I would be very interested to see what the style looks like in action. Are there any videos out there showing some HFY kiu sao or even part of the first form or are you planning on any? Maybe a basic demo to show some of the unique principles? or just some sanshou HFY sparring? I can understand the fear of others stealing your material, but if the style is truly the original wing chun, with no personal expression and it is really that good & perfect, people will want to know more about it and knowledge it being from your lineage. It's like you said in the book, this is the public awareness internet era . Otherwise it will just be secretive and general martial arts public will think it's just Star Trek Wing Chun. :)

[VTM]

For the last 300 years, Wing Chun was passed down without video recording. It's only in the last 50 years that people have started to promote the art through the use of video. Not all lineages make use of video recording. Bruce Lee requested to film Grand Master Ip Man and was refused. It's not about being secretive or out of fear of someone stealing information. It's about someone with genuine interest taking the time and effort to find out more.

Anyone with a genuine interest to see HFY is welcome to attend a public workshop in person and get their answers straight from the source - the HFY family. In fact, the workshop is going on right now and Sifu Delori Flood from Bermuda is here and seeing HFY for himself. Grand Master Gee has already informed the participants that they are free to ask questions and we've had an incredible morning so far.

If the HFY lineage wished to remain private, there would have been no Mastering Kung Fu and no public workshops. Putting out video or not has nothing to do with being secretive - each martial art family can honor their traditions as they see fit.

[John2004]

For the 35+ years since the 8mm cameras and vhs video cameras were out in the mass market, many wing chun styles were filmed including Yip Man's...except for the historical HFY.

I was just curious because I would be really interested.

Thanks for your time. Live long and prosper.

[duende]

Hey John

Thanks for your interest. Out of curiousity, where do you live?

The reason I ask is that while we do not offer any videos for sale, as previously mentioned, we do hold many public workshops across the country and internationally.

The fundamental problem with videos and pictures is that mis-interpretations can occur. Unfortunately, sometimes these mis-interpretations can lead to outright political misrepresentations.

Such was the case with TWC and HFY. In the past a few individuals did their best to misrepresent both systems by lumping them together without having real experience/first-hand knowledge of either system.

To get a true understanding of a system, close interactive learning is required. Such as last weekend's highly successful workshop that was admirably attended by a TWC Sifu.

Phil Redmond's and Jame's (Sihing) past questions about their TWC entry technique, blind-side theories etc., were not only demonstrated, but discussed in depth... Person to Person. Leaving no doubt that both systems are fundamentally different and each have their own WC identity.

[VTM]

The Dayton Workshop was a resounding success. You can read the a short review and some of the workshop participant comments by clicking here! (http://www.hfy108.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=11590#post11590)

In case you are curious about the content of the workshop and want to see HFY for yourself, there will be a workshop in two weeks - November 4th and 5th - in Phoenix, AZ. Click the link above for more information.

[John2004]

I'm in Jersey. do you know any HFY students I can meet up with around the vicinity?

thanks

[VTM]

John2004,

At this time there aren't any students, schools or clubs in the Jersey area. The closest is either Rochester, NY or Dayton, OH.

Below are comments from VTM Curator, Master Benny Meng on the recent HFY workshop hosted in Phoenix, AZ:



We just concluded the Second HFY Wing Chun Chi Kiu Workshop (this time in Phoenix) presented by Grand Master Garrett Gee. From a Museum perspective, this was a historical workshop. There were a number of “First –ever” public introductions of Hung Fa Yi material. There were also some “Firsts” in the Wing Chun community at large. For example, Dip Gwat Gung (Bone Grinding Chi Kung) was introduced as a principle tool for developing the proper structural energy for employing Chi Kiu strategy in fighting. It is, in essence, an advanced Gung Faat never before seen in the public world. Both Gung Faat and Chi Kiu represent martial training technology for training high-level fighters who do not have the time or luxury of training the whole system. Chi Kiu helps fighters to identify the reality of five distinct energies in combat, as well as Hung Fa Yi’s unique ways of dealing with ant-grappling. Most Wing Chun branches and Southern Shaolin systems today have two ways of fighting: Chi Sau and Saan Da. Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun has four: Chi Kiu, Kiu Sau, Chi Sau, and Saan Da.

Grand Master Gee also introduced additional philosophical treasures of Hung Fa Yi called “The Four Seals”. The wisdom of the four seals allows the practitioner to understand the evolution of Wing Chun, why there are so many variations, and why Hung Fa Yi can understand the nature of other art forms/systems without practicing them.

As indicated above, this was a historical event. It really fills the gaps facilitating total comprehension of all Wing Chun.

Congratulations to Grand Master Gee for an overwhelmingly successful workshop and to the Phoenix Hung Fa Kwoon for hosting this significant event. All who attended received a true treasure.


Benny Meng
VTM Curator

[anerlich]

In the past a few individuals did their best to misrepresent both systems by lumping them together without having real experience/first-hand knowledge of either system.

Not me obviously, since I have first hand knowledge of TWC.

Did you really need to say this?

[Chango]

Not me obviously, since I have first hand knowledge of TWC.

Anerlich,
This was not directed to any one person. So it is not necessary for you to discount yourself. However I think this was referring to those who have not experienced both systems first hand to be able to draw a fair conclusion. So by what you have said here yes you have one half of it. Experience in one system first hand but not the other. So to be able to draw a fair conclusion you would need to have experience in both. I hope this clears things up for you. ;)

[anerlich]

This was not directed to any one person. So it is not necessary for you to discount yourself.

My post, however, *was* directed at one person, the poster of the phrase I originally quoted (duende), so it is not necessary for you to involve yourself. ;)


In the past a few individuals did their best to misrepresent both systems by lumping them together without having real experience/first-hand knowledge of either system.

So it's OK to make pejorative judgements about people's motives as long as you don't name them or single them out. Thanks for clearing that up for me. ;)

Did Delroi have any comments to make, seeing as he is one of the very few by duende's standards who understands TWC and has had direct exposure to HFY? Or is it going to be you guys posting in his behalf about how great he must have found it to be (which hopefully he did, as it would not have been a cheap trip)?

[John2004]

John2004,

At this time there aren't any students, schools or clubs in the Jersey area. The closest is either Rochester, NY or Dayton, OH.


what's wrong with the HYF club in New York City? it is posted on the HYF website.

[Chango]

So it's OK to make pejorative judgements about people's motives as long as you don't name them or single them out. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Did Delroi have any comments to make, seeing as he is one of the very few by duende's standards who understands TWC and has had direct exposure to HFY? Or is it going to be you guys posting in his behalf about how great he must have found it to be (which hopefully he did, as it would not have been a cheap trip)?


;) ;) :D :D

I'm so glad we are all not being petty here it's good we are having a rational discussion here. ;) For a moment it seems one could have drawn a conclusion based on possible internal feelings of guilt. But of course this could not be the case I'm sure.

It's great that we can respect each others differences yet enjoy the fact that we are all connected by Wing/Weng/Ving tsun/Chun etc.... there is room for everyone here! It is just important that those who dicuss both systems that they have a grasp of each system. It is important that before one draws conclusions that he/she has a qualified account of both. It's that simple. (but maybe not! LOL) The people of that lineage should be able to determine if you one has a idea of what he/she is talking about. if not it is called a "misrepresentation".



My post, however, *was* directed at one person, the poster of the phrase I originally quoted (duende), so it is not necessary for you to involve yourself.


But you posted it in public forum;) ;) I could be wrong but I think that makes it fair game for public discussion. But like I said I could be wrong LOL!


Not me obviously, since I have first hand knowledge of TWC.


I apprecieate the offering of your advice as to what I should "involve" myself. So to extend you the same courtesy. If it was "not you" as you said, then I guess the same would apply here if "not you" then I guess your points after the fact will have no basis.

So once again I will point out that you do not have the second half of what would make you qualified to draw such conclusions. ;) that second half being HFY 1st hand experience with varified understanding by the HFY lineage. (nothing personal just fact)

a step further would be that Duende never disqualified anyones account or knowlege of TWC. Maybe you took offense to my "involvement" I did not mean to offend you. I simply wanted to add clearity so this thread does not degenerate. As it could be viewed as sabotoge or a hijacking of the thread if we pick it apart and assume every strong statement is about you. But I like to give the benifit of the doubt. So if it was honestly "not you" then we can just say that was enough said! So the glass slipper does not fit you let's move on to positive exchange! :) :D

[VTM]

According to the written comments that were provided by workshop participants:



I found the HFY seminar presented by Sifu Garrett Gee to be beyond what I imagined. His explanations of the Chi Kiu along with the time and space concepts were very eye opening. Being so precise along the lines of how the system works to achieve Maximum Efficiency combined with the practicality in its application was a treasure of knowledge and very much appreciated by me.

Sifu Gee is very open and approachable and I would encourage any martial artist to try and attend one of his seminars, especially Wing Chun practitioners.

Of special interest to me was the historical aspects and lore as expounded by Sifu Gee. It gave me a much clearer picture on the development of the art of Wing Chun as a whole in that each stage of the art development was put into context giving one a greater appreciation for all Wing Chun lines and most definitely For the HFY system of Wing Chun. I went away glad that I took the opportunity to come see for myself what a great treasure HFYWC is.

Sifu Delori Flood

Quoted from here (http://www.hfy108.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1847)

From a personal email between Sifu Flood and Sifu Phil Redmond, posted by Sifu Phil Redmond:



I just received an email from Sifu Delroi Flood from Bermuda. Here's what he wrote:
"Hello Phil . . . I went to the Wing Chun Museum last weekend to seeThe HFY for myself. I had a good time they treated me well and lots was shared.Benny Meng is cool,also Sifu Garrete Gee.Their system has similarities with us but
there are many differences.A good Wing Chun style though and is its own
creation and our TWC a different system unique on our own merits.I have
heard that some people believe some mixing of the two systems have
occured with them taking from us or us taking from them but this is not the case.All in all it was a great weekend and i appreciate what i saw and the people are good martial artists. I love to learn and share with others to grow in knowledge as regards
kungfu."
Sifu Flood is well versed in TWC so I respect his observation. Well, I guess that dispels the rumors that one version was taken from the other. It's always good when different WC families get together.
Phil Redmond

Quoted from here (http://www.hfy108.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=11602#post11602)

Also according to Sifu Redmond,



Sifu Flood has reached Provisional Master Level in TWC.
Hopefully he'll be taking the Master Level soon.
He deserves it. He is a very good example of a martial artist, never gets involved in politics, is open minded, and respects all martial arts. Here is a link to the TWC Master Levels: http://www.wingchunkwoon.com/grading.asp#master
At the bottom of this page is a Family Tree for TWC. The names in Gold font are Provisional Masters. The names in Red font have reached Master Level.
http://www.wingchunkwoon.com/history.asp
P Redmond


Quoted from here (http://www.hfy108.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=11602#post11602)

[duende]

Anerlich,

Hey! I made the comment in question as such because for the most part I really wanted to let sleeping dogs lie. However at the sametime I did want to reference these past disputes to bring clarification on the matter.

I was not referring to any TWC member whatsoever... I do not know how that could be unclear to you. Do a search if you must under TWC and HFY here, and you'll easily find some threads that demonstrate exactly to whom I was addressing.

Anyways, I didn't respond to your question earlier, because it felt sometwhat rhetorical and therefore did not warrant any attention.

No reason for a debate here imo...:)

[anerlich]

Duende,

Fair enough. I think everyone's opinions on the matter have been aired over and over, and are unlikely to change. Leaving sleeping dogs lie is indeed the way to go.

VTM,

Thanks, that's what I was looking for. Good to see Delroi found the seminar useful and worthwhile.

You might want to consider getting a new lawyer (i.e. someone less inclined to make mountains out of molehills than Cr. Noaks). :rolleyes: ;) :p :rolleyes: