Sliding steps in bagua

[northstar]

In bagua (and perhaps also in some taiji? ) there is a sliding step (mud step). What is the purpose of this? Is it only for practice or is it also for application?

[Sam Wiley]

Well, you wouldn't do the mud stepping exactly as you do it in practice, but it is there to teach you about proper footwork. For instance, it teaches how to quickly move around a person to behind them so you can get at the vital points along the back. It is also there to teach you how to do things with your hands and feet at the same time, such as blocking and striking with the hands as you kick to the knees with the feet. Also, on a more esoteric level, it helps you root yourself and builds tremendous power in your legs, as well as tremendous stability.

*********
"I put forth my power and he was broken.
I withdrew my power and he was ground into fine dust."
-Aleister Crowley, The Vision and the Voice

[TheBigToad]

In my experience every step in Bagua is a kick as well. You can use the sliding step to has I have used to break or severely bruise the ankle. Not to mention straight in at the shin and buckling the knee. Also for hooking the leg and uprooting a person.

I am the big toad and this is my pond.

[count]

Well, I agree with what has been said already and would add, aside from the health benefit, it is a about power generation and speed. It's a much quicker step that allows you to change directions fast without giving up root. How deep is your mud?
BTW, it's not the only step in bagua.
We use a Dragon step and a chicken step amoung others. How about the rest of you?

Count

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[Sam Wiley]

While I've seen other steps, the only one I practice besides the mud stepping is the normal sort of walking while doing Bagua push hands.

Northstar, if you are doing Bagua's mud stepping, you should drop your weight to slide the foot forward, then thrust the other foot forward in an arc, as if kicking, and pause for a second before sliding the front foot forward again. And you should not slide your front foot so far forward that you cannot pick it up without changing your weight while it is fully extended. Just for the record. :)

*********
"I put forth my power and he was broken.
I withdrew my power and he was ground into fine dust."
-Aleister Crowley, The Vision and the Voice

[wufupaul]

I practice Fu style Bagua, and the only step that we use(sifu mentioned it in class several weeks ago) is the mud step. I have seen other steps in Bagua, but I haven't trained in any other style of Bagua. It is hard enough just to get the flowing Fu mud step, I couldn't imagine trying to learn other ones too, haha.

[wufupaul]

The mud step that we use is kind of a combo of thrusting and sliding, if that makes sense? The weight is on the back knee, and thrusts the other leg forward, but it slides until it gently drops on the floor. It is rooted, and it moves very well. My sifu looks like a whirlwind when he starts moving around fast using the footwork, it is awesome to see it in action.

[The Willow Sword]

the snake pakua has the sliding steps, mainly it is used to keep you rooted, as for this "mud" stepping,that is indicitave of pakua. when you walk it is like you are walking in mud. the emphasis being to be rooted. i agree with kevin(big Toad) in that the stepping is also kicking, i like to call it kick stepping, for hsingi has the same philosphy about the stepping.
to elaborate on the sliding steps. i have been taught that the steps are like you are gliding across the ground like a snake. the back foot sinks as you thrust your foot forward in that sliding fasion.
anyway, just my buffalo nickels worth.
many respects, willow sword

Whatever you think i am or want me to be,,, i am.
oh and,,,Jesus loves you, everyone else thinks you are an a$.

[Braden]

I practice two kinds of footwork, the lion step which is like normal walking with a heel-to-toe roll, and the snake step where the entire foot remains equidistant to the ground, lifts off only a small distance, and steps in arcs towards the other foot. In both cases, I practice the sliding step.

In practice, I have found it useful to consider the slide to be the beginning of a step. So one "chunk" would be: right slide, left step, pause. You move in chunks, the next side follows. A slide does not preceed a change, but rather follows one, as a new stepping "chunk" begins. Of course, the pause becomes infinitely small. I have also found it useful to consider the slide as the force of the body thrusting forward. The thrust has alot to do with the whole body's weight being on the rear foot, and the thrust coming from there, as it were. I'm not sure how, physically speaking, the whole body can thrust forward while the weight remains truly on the back leg. I just have had some success, in practice, with trying to make that happen.

In terms of purpose, I have only got the feeling that my lower dantien is involved properly with the movement when I am doing the slide properly. Perhaps someone with more experience will comment on that. However, if this is the case, then the step is certainly very important for everything - power generation, rooting, energy conservation, fluidity... On a more mundane level, the slide does train the ability to do low-level kicks and jamming without telegraphing, breaking your pace, or losing mobility. When you are really doing it, it also seems to me that you are able to accelerate much more quickly, which is an important concern when you are changing, as well as for basic linear acceleration.

[TheBigToad]

SOmeone brought this to my attention. I might be calling the sliding step in a method of Bagua I know which is called the plowing step in most systems. Also are we calling the mud stepping the same as mud slinging step? Because that seems like a whole other intent behind it.

I am the big toad and this is my pond.

[honorisc]

There is no sliding. There is keeping close to the floor. There is having in mind the concept of walking in mud. This thought does great developmental stuff as one wals or whatever.

To get explainations in depth allows you to miss significant aspects because you are trying to remember the partial list of benefits. Or ignoring some of the training in favor of preferences. So (needle-and-thread), walk as if in mud. imagine an opponet on the opposite side of the circle. The name is not important, the techniqe is, so learn it (well)! Learn all of these techniques. Then forget them all. Don't question me I'm the instructor, I teach; you learn. Tha is all


I No_Know

Very some such,perhaps might have been, likely say some, some not.

[Mark M]

Sun Lutang's stepping method is described as "gliding" thru about 3" of water and not picking the foot above the water and not splashing. I do not know the mud step.

[BAI HE]

Sounds like the principles of Okinawan Karate that everyone vilifies on this board.

[Mark M]

A good friend of mine practices a style from Okinowa that is very soft and flowing. It has many similarities of various Chinese styles. He is a professional fighter and uses his art very effectively. He doesn't square off like a western boxer like so many other fighters do.

[BAI HE]

Yes, the relaxed postures are for the upper-levels of the Oninawan systems. Many, here deride these arts as being "stiff", yet maintain that their own arts are fluid, supple and "High Level". But THEY ARE SOOOO EFFECTIVE.
Worse off to cross hands with these guys they're hard as oak and smoother than cat-crap on linoleum and if you cross hands with them you'd better be as well.

[Waidan]

In my experience we always use the snake-step as Braden and others described (though we do not refer to it as such). I see the order as this:

The dan tien leads the movement(this is where the focus is while stepping).
The weight shifts *very briefly* to the front leg, which then pulls the practitioner forward. It's important that the rear leg doesn't push forward or shove off (bad for rooting/mobility).
The back leg shifts forward about an inch off the ground, the foot stays flat (heel and ball remain equidistant from the ground).
All the weight is now on the back foot 100/0.