Open Mind

[MARTIALSTUDANT]

I well be the first to tell you I'm new to martial arts but from my experiences and from some of the post in here martial arts teach you a lot of things. They may teach you honor, respect, self discipline, confidance. But I rarely see martial artist with a open mind weather it comes to questions or concerns. So I would like to see if it's just me and my eyes or have you kind men/women experienced the same things?

[sunfist]

Id say its a balance. Its good to always be receptive to new ideas, but at the same time you need to be grounded in simple and workable methods. Otherwise youll end up in all that tree hugging crap.

[Samurai Jack]

Also be aware that what you see here on this forum does not necessarily represent whats out there in the world. Most of the martial artists I know in real life are painfully polite and open to discussion and exploring other styles. Here, you will find a different sort of personality represented. Perhaps it's the annonymity of the internet, or perhaps it's the sort of people who tend to train MA and post on internet forums.

I once told my sifu that I frequented KFM (back in the KFO days) and showed him the site. He browsed for about ten minutes and then looked at me with incredulity, "Do these people always talk to each other like this?" It's definitly a different culture, but I like it. It's sort of like hanging out at a biker bar where everyone happens to practice martial arts in thier spare time.

[Scott R. Brown]

Hi MARTIALSTUDANT,

Your feelings seem inclined to the “why can’t we all just get along?” point of view. This usually translates in reality to, “why can’t people just agree with ME?” I am not implying this is your attitude. I don’t know you. However, this is the attitude of many people. Life is nice as long our ideas are accepted, but when they are disagreed with many people get their feelings hurt. If I propose an idea on an open BB I must be ready to have it challenged and questioned by others. I must be able to defend my idea with reasoned argument in order to demonstrate why I believe it to be valid. Even if I provide valid reasoning, at some point, someone is likely to disagree. That is OK! If everyone agreed with me what kind of world would we have? A world of carbon copies of ME!! Disagreements/Conflicts are part of life. It is best to accept it and learn to flow with it rather than fight it. It is more beneficial to discern the rules of life (Tao) and learn to flow with the current rather than fight it. Life is bigger than us. It will win!

Wishing/Hoping everyone could get along is not a realistic view of life and neither is it beneficial. Conflict motivates change. Guided change is growth and growth is beneficial to the individual.

It is through a variety of opinions that minds are expanded. To be sure it is preferable for disagreements to be conducted with some level of decorum that is, in a manner where individuals mutually respect each other and allow each other to air their views. However, it is unrealistic to actually believe this will occur. Not everyone has the same communication ability, emotional maturity or tolerance for disagreement with their pet points of view. After all, if we could all get along there would be no need for the MA’s, right?

Take the opportunity on the BB to learn, grow and adapt in response to any conflicts that may arise. It is good training for the real world. It is relatively safe and you have the ability to control your exposure. When the tension gets to great, take a break. The example of Yin-Yang is pertinent here. There is a time to attack and a time to retreat. This applies to all forms of conflict whether physical or verbal. The manner in which you attack and retreat verbally is compatible with real world verbal conflicts. Often in the real world when a conflict is imminent it may be avoided through the judicious use of words. A BB is a good place to practice using this method. You are likely to learn what works and what does not under differing circumstances. The world of the conflict of egos is similar to the world of physical conflict. Tactics and strategies apply to both and some principles are interchangeable although adaptation to the specific need must generally occur.

Lastly, keep in mind that while everyone has equal right to voice their opinions, not all opinions are equal! Just because someone gives an opinion does not mean it is compelling or valid even though it may have meaning to the individual who proposed it. Most people have an emotional attachment to their opinions, when others disagree with their opinion their feelings get hurt because they feel personally attacked. A poor or invalid opinion does not negate the inherent value of a person, but that is often how individuals feel and heated words often ensue. Even reassurance will not mend the hurt because identity and ego get involved. Maturity is not a requirement to hold or share an opinion, so arguments are always a possibility.

If you are unsure of how your ideas will be received then sit back and observe for awhile. Learn the unwritten rules of conversation and see if you can identify patterns that occur. Think of it as moving to a foreign country that has different customs. In order to fit in you must learn the customs of the locals. It is the same on a BB and we all had to learn them as went along.

Good Luck and have fun!

[omarthefish]

Keep an open mind, just not so open that your brain falls out. ;)

[Becca]

Your training is what you make of it. If you wish to atain a hight level of thinking, you can definantly get there with martial arts. You can also take your art to the gutter...:(

That being said, most people's web fu is tougher than thier gung fu. Face to face, the only people I've met who are that closed minded are newbs and boobs pretending to have a clue.:rolleyes:

[lunghushan]

Define 'open mind'. I don't think you'll find anybody who has it.

[jigahus]

Define 'open mind'. I don't think you'll find anybody who has it.

True. Some people open their mind and then fall under the mind thought of the school, either good or bad.

[lunghushan]

There aren't many martial artists who are actually open minded, but alot think they are. Your typical student usually gets into discussions with other artists and maybe a quick exchange of vague over generalized differences between the arts, but when it really comes down to something like cross training, there aren't many who are willing. Too many MAists are locked into there styles, and few truly explore. These types may think of themselves as open minded because they like to say things like "Its not the style its the practicioner. All styles are equal", but they won't actually try other styles, or spar outside of there style. To be truly open minded, you have to lose the ego... Its really no wonder why there are so few of these people.

With MA, I have an extremely hard time being 'open minded' because so much of what people do seems very strange or downright useless.

I always wondered what Bruce Lee meant by the 'classical mess'. Because I never studied any classical style (all my original teachers were heavily influenced by Bruce Lee), I guess I was never exposed to the 'classical mess'.

So now when I go back and try to sort through a lot of these forms, yes, they do look like a mess. So such much for 'open minded'. LOL

[SPJ]

Your mind is only limited by its openess.

:D

[SPJ]

I always wondered what Bruce Lee meant by the 'classical mess'. Because I never studied any classical style (all my original teachers were heavily influenced by Bruce Lee), I guess I was never exposed to the 'classical mess'.



there are more things in common than different among styles.

however, each style does stress, focus or emphasize some things "differently".

When you try to sort things out among styles, it is a "mess".

:confused:

[Merryprankster]

An open mind is one thing, and I'm cool with that - the exploration of responses to different situations/scenarios/events.

But at some point, you have to make a decision, and the very nature of decision closes doors behind you, even as others open.


Keeping an open mind does not/should not require validating things that are crap, however.

[PlumDragon]

Define 'open mind'. I don't think you'll find anybody who has it.Glad youre so open minded about it!

[lunghushan]

Glad youre so open minded about it!

This IS CMA we're talking about, isn't it? 'Open minded' ain't really part of the vocabulary.

[tug]

"When I have faced the enemy, of course it is like being in the dark. But if at that time I tranquilize my mind, it becomes like a night lit by a pale moon. If I begin my attack from that point, I feel as though I will not be wounded."

This is the situation at the moment of truth.

The moment of truth is completely dependent on being open minded and taking into consideration all factors involved in said moment of truth and also reacting without thinking, given one's personal level of mental and physical development and/or training.

IMO.

[Becca]

That's actually a nice description of open mindedness, me thinks.

Less focus on cross training; more focus on seeing things for how they are. But, as human beings, what we percieve will always be filtered through our own perspective. He who likes cross training will for ever call those who don't narrow minded. And he who is truely content with his art will never give a dam about the oppinions of a cross trainer, because he realizes that the cross trainer is acting like an oppinionated jerk...:rolleyes: :D

[LongPath]

While reading through the posts in this thread I found myself occasionally having to stop for a moment, shut down the noise in my head and re-read what I had just read. My ego and opinions kept welling up and drowning out what people were saying.

For me, that's open-mindedness: shutting up and listening, taking a moment to consider and try to understand what's being said, thinking it over for a moment or two, taking into account the possibility that I've missed the gist or the intent of the speaker/writer. In other words, being respectful enough of the other to consider the possibility that my own opinions and preconceptions might be obstacles to understanding.

When I do post an opinion, I get a brief rush from seeing my profound ideas in "print", and my ego is invested in the idea that others might read what I wrote. At that point I could be vulnerable to having my feelings hurt if they disagree. If I read a reply and sense that the person is disagreeing with me, I try to quell the defensive urges and go through the same process described above -- "keeping an open mind."

Open-mindedness is not being gullible. It just means taking the time to listen and understand before responding, all the while considering the possibility that if someone else turns out to be right about something, I can be willing to change my opinion and give credit where it is due.

[explosiveturtle]

different people- different perspective
different background- different reasoning
Because we disagree that's why respect has a value.
Because we are unlike that's why we can make up for each other's disagreement

[BoulderDawg]

I well be the first to tell you I'm new to martial arts but from my experiences and from some of the post in here martial arts teach you a lot of things. They may teach you honor, respect, self discipline, confidance. But I rarely see martial artist with a open mind weather it comes to questions or concerns. So I would like to see if it's just me and my eyes or have you kind men/women experienced the same things?

Well, if you're new to the world of martial arts why do you feel you can make such a complex value judgement?

The truth is people involved in martial arts are just ordinary people for the most part. Some will have open minds, others won't.....just like everyone else.

You are strange to say the least. 90% of the posts you leave involve asking fairly broad and, quite frankly, odd questions. Yet you never seem to come back and discuss once your questions are answered. It's like you are fishing for something.

[MARTIALSTUDANT]

Well, if you're new to the world of martial arts why do you feel you can make such a complex value judgement?

The truth is people involved in martial arts are just ordinary people for the most part. Some will have open minds, others won't.....just like everyone else.

You are strange to say the least. 90% of the posts you leave involve asking fairly broad and, quite frankly, odd questions. Yet you never seem to come back and discuss once your questions are answered. It's like you are fishing for something.

It would seem every time I cast my line I only catch Dawg:D

[The Willow Sword]

I too have noticed the oddity at which martialstudent presents the broad array of questions and then does not continue to discuss them in the thread. I am willing to give her the benefit of the doubt and just go on the notion that she is a beginning student in martial arts and is just trying to get a feel of what this community on the forums is like and see if it benefits her and the community of people she is training with.

on the other hand martialstudent may be some fat bald g@y guy named shakey getting some weird kick out of all this.:D

Peace,TWS

[MARTIALSTUDANT]

I too have noticed the oddity at which martialstudent presents the broad array of questions and then does not continue to discuss them in the thread. I am willing to give her the benefit of the doubt and just go on the notion that she is a beginning student in martial arts and is just trying to get a feel of what this community on the forums is like and see if it benefits her and the community of people she is training with.

on the other hand martialstudent may be some fat bald g@y guy named shakey getting some weird kick out of all this.:D

Peace,TWS

Skinny guys are your only turn ons?

[PangQuan]

as a truly beginning student, one would not have much to add to conversation based on questions other than personal opinion not based in experience.

to sit back, let the responses roll in, sift through them and read them all, use common sense and basic deduction, in addition with people skills you can usually tell who is pulling opinion out their ass and stating as fact, from those that say what they know and point out what is fact from opinion.

as a beginning student i think MARTIALSTUDENT is simply doing thier homework.

but then again this is the internet, so who knows.

benefit of the doubt is always first till proven wrong.

[The Willow Sword]

benefit of the doubt is always first till proven wrong


Agreed pangchuan, but since martialstudent decided to not be a good sport about my little harmless joke, i say martial student IS the fat bald g@y guy named shakey.:D

Martialstudents threads just keep coming. now its a woman in distress that is apparently not in a women friendly school. doesnt seem like someone who has been doing jun fan for 2 years to be asking all these "interesting" questions as if they have never stepped in a school before.

i say troll in a clever disguise.

TWS

[PangQuan]

oh

lol


i have not been as active on the forum lately, and am missing out on some of the goings ons...

dang trolls :rolleyes:

[BoulderDawg]

Someone whos has two years experience in MA is not going to asking questions like these.

However it's not just the questions, it's the fact that he/she will ask these broad ranging questions such as "What is the meaning of life":D and then sit back and not participate in the discussion.

I don't know who it is but they do seem to be getting some kind of kicks from these goofy ass questions!:p

Also the "Please let me ask all you kind Men/Women" is something that if I heard it in public I would have immediate distrust and one hand would go to my wallet and the other would cover my balls!:eek: