1 sifu is enough?

[MARTIALSTUDANT]

It seems like a lot of of martial artist train more than 1 style at the same time. Just a example maybe kung fu and jujitsu. sifu says kung fu was the mother style of many other forms of martial arts so I have a 2 part question.
1st question is having more than one sifu or one martial art school a good ideal?
2nd question is I read a lot of post saying they use kung fu for striking and Gracie jujitsu or some other form of grappling for ground game, but if you stay in kung fu long enough won't you learn ground game?

[The Xia]

Chinese martial arts are extremely influential to the martial arts as a whole. Other nation's arts do have Chinese roots (For example, Karate meant "Tang Hand", as in the Tang Dynasty, but was changed to "Empty Hand" to not upset Japanese nationalists). Most styles are complete but you can cross-train if you like. You will find some styles to be particularly complimentary. As for ground fighting, Kung Fu has it (there are even some styles that are known for it).

[Green Cloud]

Style is based on personality, stick with the style that is best suited for you.

As far as cross training that's ok there are plenty of people out there that would be more than happy to exchange knowledge. This way you get the best of both worlds and you don't have to worry about a conflict of interest with your Sifu.

Any way that's how I did it I stuck with one Sifu so I can master his stuff and became well rounded by keeping an open mind and making friends with other people from different styles.

If you run around going from style to style all that happens is that you become a jack of all trades but master at none. Not to mention how time consuming it can be studying different styles at the same time and costly too.

Jiu jitsu= 120-160 a month
Boxing = 75-100 a month
Kung Fu = 100 to 160 a month
Gym = about 50 to 100 a month

The overal expense about $$345 to $$$520 and let's not forget the time and effort To juggle all that and the overime to pay for it all. all work and no play you know that makes jhonny a dull boy or girl.

greencloud.net

[The Xia]

Green Cloud is correct that if you go to many teachers you'll start paying through the nose and most likely won't have the time to get really good at anything. However, there are many Sifus that teach more then one style. If you'd like, you can try one of them.

[Wood Dragon]

Initially, begin studying one (1) system. Does not truly matter which one (Boxing, Judo, Karatedo, Muay Thai, etc). Give it your full attention until you have a solid grasp of the basics (which is what a black belt is supposed to signify, in karate). After that, sure, broaden your horizons. It's important, however, to absorb the new info into your already existant system/theory (making a unified whole), as opposed to trying to flip between Judo and Muay Thai on the fly.


That said, the best (IMO) way to expand your skill is to -fight- practitioners of other styles (always fighting people trained in the same skillset as you is boring and narrows does not provide muhc experience). Daido Juku has that ideal built into it, in the form of the "War" tourneys (everyone comes and fights as they normally do, within a reasonable framework). In Kyokushin, the big thing was the cross-pollination between the Muay Thai community and the Kyokushinkai.

Coming from a Shotokan---->Kyokushin background, the first time I faced a Thaiboxer was a real learning experience (*******s can go forever). A Boxer impressed upon me the importants of slipping. A Judoka taught me to watch my distance and prepare to resist being reeled in and thrown. So on...

[Green Cloud]

So I guess whe're all on the same page, stick with one style you like and mix it up with anyone you can get your hands on.

[David Jamieson]

One sifu at a time is enough yes.
You can still pick up in other areas, but to the level of school hopping, you really won't take much with you that way.

stick with something til you've got a reasonable handle on it then branch off when the time comes.

[sunfist]

Another vote for get comfortable with your main stuff and then crosstrain. While im hardly as worldly as some here, Id put money on that method producing the best fighters.

[Chief Fox]

I'm gonna go ahead and go against the grain here. I say learn as much as you can. What have you got to loose?

Look at it this way. There is all of this information available out there, why would you limit your self to just a portion of it? It' like going to the library and just staying in the roman history section. Roman history is cool and you could probably spend a lifetime studying it but why not study the greeks or the egyptians too. Or why not study the chinese and come to your own conclusions about how they compare to one another?

IMO a martial artist is a student that has an open mind and continues to learn.

I've recently started training at a Brazilian Jujitsu Club. Do I plan to stay with this style until I get a black belt? I have no idea. Basically I'm trying it out. I'm curious about this gound fighting stuff so instead of being un-informed, I'm finding out what it's all about for myself. I'm venturing into other parts of the library.

[PangQuan]

its along the same lines as the old saying:

"its better to practice one technique a thousand times, than to practice a thousand techniques one time each"

one could argue, well what if i practice a thousand techniques a thousand times...but if you had that time you could have practiced that one technique, one hundred thousand times.

stick with what you got. as long as its right for you, if you are questioning this because you feel you may need to try a diff style, then do that. but once you find what is best for you. learn it.

[Chief Fox]

its along the same lines as the old saying:

"its better to practice one technique a thousand times, than to practice a thousand techniques one time each"

one could argue, well what if i practice a thousand techniques a thousand times...but if you had that time you could have practiced that one technique, one hundred thousand times.

stick with what you got. as long as its right for you, if you are questioning this because you feel you may need to try a diff style, then do that. but once you find what is best for you. learn it.

A very strong case can be made for quality over quantity. But many styles have anywhere from 50 to 150 forms. I would argue that learning a complete system that has this many forms is borderline, if not full on, focusing on quantity instead of quality.

Above, PangQuan mentions sticking with what you got "as long as it right for you". This makes sense BUT the only way to find if something is right for you is if you try many things.

Don't limit yourself.

[MasterKiller]

I would say that if you are learning to properly kick, punch, throw, and grapple from one guy, stick with him. If you are not learning all of these skills, find someone who can fill the gaps.

[SevenStar]

I would say that if you are learning to properly kick, punch, throw, and grapple from one guy, stick with him. If you are not learning all of these skills, find someone who can fill the gaps.

well said. From what I've seen though, most cma, tkd, karate, etc. lack in the ground aspect.

[SevenStar]

Jiu jitsu= 120-160 a month
Boxing = 75-100 a month
Kung Fu = 100 to 160 a month
Gym = about 50 to 100 a month

The overal expense about $$345 to $$$520 and let's not forget the time and effort To juggle all that and the overime to pay for it all. all work and no play you know that makes jhonny a dull boy or girl.

greencloud.net


pick two arts - boxing and bjj, for example. Not only that, but several sport schools offer classes in a grappling and standup, so you will end up getting to train both at a discounted price, in addition to a non-conflicting schedule, because it's at the same school.

as far as the gym goes, if you can't afford one, either stick with bodyweight exercises or spring a one time fee on an olympic weight set.

It's really not that expensive, if you do it right.

[MightyB]

I'd stay with one base style throughout your MA career, but definitely cross train with other styles.

There's a saying I learned in Judo. If you're an American, don't try to imitate a Japanese man learning the Japanese way of doing Judo. What it means is that different regions develop different training methodologies that best suit the people living in that culture. Russian Judo is very different than Japanese Judo. Eastern European Judo is different than French Judo. American Judo is different than British Judo...

For example, Japanese people learn early on to develop their leg and hip strength and focus on perfecting the fine details of the art of Judo with forms. Russians take a very sports science approach to training crosstraining with wrestling, sambo, and weightraining and skip forms training all together.

Both ways produce people capable of winning the world games and the Olympics.
---

Long story short-- be an American learning Kung Fu.

[David Jamieson]

wow, that price list taht 7* quoted is outrageous!

those prices better come with a facilty that has footmen in the bathrooms.

when I learned KKarate, my fee was 10 month (ok that was a looooong time ago)

but back in the 90's, kungfu was 30 bucks a month (no showers and facilities were ok, but not shiny new gym quality)

boxing is 60 bucks a month and wrestling is almost free at anyt YMCA and frankly dioesn't require huge in depth knowledge because training is all rolling and using what has been shown to work historically. Frankly, I'd rather wrestle than bother with teh jujitsu, although i appreciate what jujitsu is, I just don't think it offers all the much more than wrestling GR style when it comes to just ground work.


anyway, those prices are a bit wow and I would only expect those kinds of charges coming from a pretty seriously repleat facility.

[lunghushan]

It doesn't seem like you've been to a school in a while, David. You might want to go check out their rates.

[PangQuan]

i pay 700 a year.

thats 58 bucks a month....those prices ARE high...

i call rip off

[jigahus]

Dam the prices for schools around your areas are cheap. Here in LA county most MA classes are about average $100. Cheapest I saw was $50 for Chinese Shaolin Center, but we all know about that hotbed.

[lunghushan]

Where do you guys live you can pay $58??? That's way too low.

[Wood Dragon]

Rates are commensurate with the local Cost of Living.

Pensacola, FL: $40-60/month for TKD, $60/month for Judo or Aikido, $15 a semester for Shotokan (University club).

Fayetteville, NC: $50/month for Muay Thai, $5/week for Kyokushin (on-Base).


YMMV.

[explosiveturtle]

It really depends on what you're aiming for. If the goal is to achieve greater fighting skills then you shouldn't limit yourself on exploring new techniques finding new teachers. Other than the fact of how well it works, you must like what you learn. Teachers and teachers often disagree with each other at points. So what's right is what works for you. On the other hand if you just want to master you current learnings- that works, too. But not to forget to find out what other similar martial artist are working on.

People always say there is pros and cons in every style. I think that's rather negative. Gracie family's jujitsu has a mix of kick boxing and boxing techniques to help them gain the edge on closing in range and getting strikes when they can't into thier desired position. Bruce Lee combine many footwork from different styles to avoid to going into the ground. And when he is on the ground he uses his flexiblity and his direct powerful approaches. So you can see that it's really what you develop that counts. Ground moves are often seizing or locks. Many Shaolin chin nas practice in that area on the floor.
So... again it's really down to what works for you.

[David Jamieson]

It doesn't seem like you've been to a school in a while, David. You might want to go check out their rates.

actually, seriously, those rates are too high.

40-60 bucks a month is par for asian martial arts and it usually is the mma guys who charge more because it's popular now.

[omarthefish]

When I was last in San Francisco, one of the 3 most expensive cities in the United States, the going rate was 60$ - 80$ / month for unlimited classes. There were a few places more or less expensice but the general range for most schools was in there somewhere. At YC Wong's at the time, I think I was paying 80 but I can't remember. I remember watching new people showing up and being told it was for 3 classes a week but really, I don't think people actually showing up too much was a problem. lol. If you could make it 5 days a week no one would have complained.

I paid 60/month for Kuk Sool Wan in SF but then there were endless testing fees, books you had to buy, patches, you name it.

At a TKD place I paid around 60 a month too. That was just the rate and San Francisco is EXPENSIVE. The only place more expensive is Manhatten. Not "New York". New York as a whole, at that time, was supposed to be cheaper than SF. It only came out more expensive if you just looked at Manhatten. LA would be cheaper than SF except for the car expense. You can do without in SF. Not in LA. Also, in LA you tend to put a lot of miles in. So that's the 3. SF, LA, NY. Price in SF: 60 - 80 except for Gracie schools which were outrageuously expensive. I mean like 300$ for 2 classes a week.

[explosiveturtle]

Ya... San Francisco charge alot and provid tiny package.
There's alot of fake ones out there also. Very few good teachers here. Most of the styles here are Shaolin, Judo, Kickbox/Boxing, Karate, kind of things. You can go to UC Berkeley and get a really good TDK class. The Judo class in City College of SF is also pretty decent. I live around so I know. Never really been looking into LA/SD, but I've heard they've got alot more variety down there. Alot more Taiwanese teachers down south. Most of the Kung Fu teacher in SF are from Hong Kong. And of course New York will always be a tad bit better for whole martial art business.

[jigahus]

Ya... San Francisco charge alot and provid tiny package.
There's alot of fake ones out there also. Very few good teachers here. Most of the styles here are Shaolin, Judo, Kickbox/Boxing, Karate, kind of things. You can go to UC Berkeley and get a really good TDK class. The Judo class in City College of SF is also pretty decent. I live around so I know. Never really been looking into LA/SD, but I've heard they've got alot more variety down there. Alot more Taiwanese teachers down south. Most of the Kung Fu teacher in SF are from Hong Kong. And of course New York will always be a tad bit better for whole martial art business.

I have yet to meet a Taiwanese teacher. Maybe they are hiding in LA or in San Diego.

[bodhitree]

threadstarter: arent you the one that started the thread about having an open mind.

As far as Jack of all trades master of none,to me fighting is the trade, not form collecting or lineage climbing. I have stayed with some styles exclusively for a few years and I have had a variety, I feel I have learned at least a little something from everything.

[SevenStar]

If you run around going from style to style all that happens is that you become a jack of all trades but master at none.


I have a different theory about that one. take your average mma guy. He trains striking and grappling. period. take your average cma guy. he trains striking, kicking, chin na, iron palm/body, qigong, multiple weapons, forms....

you guys have a lot less chance of mastering everything than we do, as we train fewer aspects. Who is REALLY the jack of all trades and master of none?

[BoulderDawg]

threadstarter: arent you the one that started the thread about having an open mind.

As far as Jack of all trades master of none,to me fighting is the trade, not form collecting or lineage climbing. I have stayed with some styles exclusively for a few years and I have had a variety, I feel I have learned at least a little something from everything.

Strange thing is she started basically the same thread in July:

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42392

I would like to ask what does she study now and what her goals are.

[PangQuan]

I have a different theory about that one. take your average mma guy. He trains striking and grappling. period. take your average cma guy. he trains striking, kicking, chin na, iron palm/body, qigong, multiple weapons, forms....

you guys have a lot less chance of mastering everything than we do, as we train fewer aspects. Who is REALLY the jack of all trades and master of none?

good point.

i think kung fu is not for the hobbyist. you must devote extra time to your training.

you must put in the hours, you must sacrafice personal life, you must sacrafice carreer opportunities. if you want the chance to master a real style of chinese arts, you must make it your life. with this mentality you can be come a master of many aspects.

yes granted if you practice one punch a million times, vs. 4 puches 250 thousand times. your one punch will be great while the guy who practiced the 4 punches will not be as great. but great he still will be.

at what point though is it repetition you no longer need to perfect the motion. that one punch, if you pratice it your entire life and only that. you will reach a point when you are no longer perfecting it, for it is reached its peak. at that point you can do basic maintinence to keep your skill in that punch where it is, and continue onto another punch.

if you practice one punch your whole life, and i practice four my whole life, chances are my 4 puches that are also perfect, ( though it took longer) will beat out your one punch. i have in turn mastered your punch and with enough time you wasted on that same punch needlessly, i mastered 3 more.

its a juggling act. each person will need to find thier limit. for some, basics will always be your only game, for one may not have the time or genetic ability to continue further. for others, they may be able to pass taht.

jack of all trades master of none is a saying we have, but it is not the rule.

there are jack of all trades master of many...they can, will, have, and do exist, you but only have to strive hard enough.

we have proven time and again throughout the ages, if there is a will, ther IS a way.

its not even a matter of CMA vs. MMA or any other MA, but how much can YOU personally make time for and take in and truly practice till you master it.

personal

[MightyB]

Circa 1992... these guys... they were tough... I mean they were the best strikers you'd imagine... these dudes were the bomb. You didn't want to step into the ring with them.

So these other guys see this and think, "let's not play their game". So these other guys step into the ring, slam these awesome strikers to the mat, and proceed to choke them, beat them, bend them, and break them.

The really awesome striker dudes never got the chance to use their good stuff.

---

What if you master that one technique, but the opportunity to use that one technique is never there? :confused: