2nd World Traditional Wushu Festival, whos going??

[Aussie SHaolin]

Hi all

Just wondering who will be attending the 2nd world traditional wushu festival being held in Zhengzhou in ocotber. I went to the last one and it was awesome the experience was one i will never forget!

[Aussie SHaolin]

Hi all

Just wondering who will be attending the 2nd world traditional wushu festival being held in Zhengzhou in ocotber. I went to the last one and it was awesome the experience was one i will never forget!

Aussie Shaolin rocks!!

[GeneChing]

And I concur. It rocked. I'm very disappointed that I won't be able to make it this year (although I've already heard on the downlow that they aren't planning for it to be as gargantuan as last time). Check out my DVD Shaolin Trips: The First World Traditional Wushu Festival (http://www.martialartsmart.com/dvd-gc001.html) - it's a fundraiser for the Friends of Shaolin (http://www.tigerclawfoundation.org/friends/F_shaolin.htm) - a special committee of our charitable branch, the Tiger Claw Foundation. (http://www.tigerclawfoundation.org)

[bungbukuen]

The Shaolin temple and this tournament has very little to do with any traditional Chinese fighting systems.

Its modern wushu plain and simple. Just take a look at some the performances that won gold medals last year: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-kqdUXqI9c

I think the practitioner spent more with scratching and picking gestures than he did swining that staff. I think he even crawled around on all fours for a bit. All you can do is shake your head.

Below is a very insightful assessment from a previous post regarding the merits of "traditional" shaolin kungfu these days.


Without trugging through the entire article and all the other assorted stuff you could dig up, the shortest explanation is just to say that the Shaolin Temple, at present, is simply an officially appointed "flagship" so to speak for Shaolin Gongfu. It exists primarily to market all the stuff people associate with Shaolin Gongfu in their imaginations but the place it's self, in regards to the training, the forms, the sparring and so on, is pretty much the same as what you find at any Wushu University throughout China. You could find nearly the exact same training and curriculum at the Xi'an Sports University or at the Beijing Sports University, at the Zhao Xiangjun Wushu School in Xi'an and so on.

It's a set of govt. approved standardized form for forms competition and basic Sanda for the uh...Sanda competition.

That's all it is. No better. No worse. Just more famous and with more government support but make no mistake, is IS a regular wushu school like all the rest. That DOES include Sanda but they don't teach or compete with the traditional forms. They use the govt. standardized versions.

[GeneChing]

Firstly, as I reported in my coverage of the tournament (see Shaolin Trips: Episode 4 (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=576)), the gold medal thing was really more of a face presentation, just like with almost all tournaments that invite non-Chinese. China looks at gold medals differently. There isn't just one gold awarded per ring. It's more like a level - every competitor that acheives a certain level gets a gold, usually based on a percentage. So the top 10% might all get gold medals. Some say this stems every since the Cultural Revolution when competition was viewed negatively, but an argument can also be made that this is a remnant of the old Confucian method of examinations. It's a bit confusing, but it allows a lot of foreigners to go home with gold medals and bragging rights.

That being said, sure, there was a lot of modern wushu present at this event, just like any event, despite its intentions and moniker. As for Jamel's performance, he's a friend of mine and we've discussed him elsewhere. It should be noted that he's American and this was his first trip to China. However, there was plenty of traditional coming in from other countries, as well as from the China Wushu Association's senior division. I tried to focus on this in my video. Keep in mind that many countries fielded traditional teams there, countries where even the staunch wushu critics claim still maintain their traditional roots like Hong Kong. There was plenty of traditional there. You just needed to know where to look.

[lunghushan]

Yeah, that seemed kindof like a useless form but when I did a survey of monkey styles, most of them seem to have that useless hand waving stuff. Maybe it is kindof like a block if somebody is going for your head ???

Anyway don't knock that performance just because it was a monkey form.

That being said, yeah, it's all just wushu and competition and all of that. But, whatever.

I mean, lots of people go to sports games to watch people kick a ball around a field, so what's the difference?

[Lokhopkuen]

My China Tank is full.


Gonna stay home for a while.....

[Lokhopkuen]

My China Tank is full.


Gonna stay home for a while....

[bungbukuen]

However, there was plenty of traditional coming in from other countries, as well as from the China Wushu Association's senior division

I do believe it is possible that a number of naive traditional schools from outside of China attended.

On the issue of the China Wushu Association sending traditional players it is important to take care in the wording of this.

Competition wushu does in fact contain a "traditional" division. But it is misleading. More accurately it is a traditional FORMS division.

When someone tells you they compete in the traditional division what they really mean is they train some additional standardized competition forms. Typically these forms Tong Bei Quan and Tang Lang Quan amoungst a few others. It does not mean that if you train in a traditional system you can enter it. These are standardized and very far removed from any requirements under traditional fighting systems.

In traditional fighting systems forms training is only one very small element within the overall training system. In modern wushu it is the ultimate purpose.

Of course there is nothing wrong with these differences. I just do not like to see all of those poor foreigners fooled into beleiving they are studying some traditional Chinese fighting system. Or worse yet, some traditional Shaolin fighting system.

[Aussie SHaolin]

Hi BengbuKuen

I was just wondering whether you went to the last world traditional championships?

I do not want to seem rude but your comments and descriptions are to me, sound like you have very little knowledge of 'Wushu' in China and its practitioners. If you do your research and train with the right masters you will realise the comments that you have made are incorrect.

In regards to the traditional championships it is a great place to see the 'Old' Kung Fu or Wushu from China. Of course there are standardised forms however your comment about people not entering with real traditional forms is completly wrong as friends of mine entered with trdatitional non standardised forms!

I witnessed some of the best traditional stuff in the world at the championships and i have trained with some of the best.

No hard feelings but do a little bit more research rather than listening to others with little or incorrect information.

[bungbukuen]

Been around the block more than a few times in China. But thanks for the advice Aussie Shaolin.

Why dont you tell us more about some of the best traditional you ever saw?

[xiao]

This is the source (http://www.zibosky.com/zbtoday/show_content.php?id=21706). Really amazing if you ask me ...

[David Jamieson]

wow, it looks really quite templey in that pic.

where's the t-shirt and million pieces of crap vendors? :p

[GeneChing]

Any idea where that is exactly? I know the temple pretty well and I can't pinpoint it from that shot at all. Of course, I haven't been back since the last World Traditional Wushu Festival (http://www.martialartsmart.com/dvd-gc001.html) (which is partially what that article is covering) and I hardly recognized the place then either.

KL: You're behind the times. The abbot purged Shaolin of most of the tourist vendors a few years back. It started in 2000 - see Karmic Wheel Turns at Shaolin Temple: A Controversy Erupts at Songshan by Martha Burr and me in our 2000 December issue. (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=130) We've covered the changes in every Shaolin Special since. The last time I was back, there was only a small section of tourist vendors by Talin, and the typical stands within any Chinese temple. They were scheduled to open a big gift shop at the new front gate complex, but it wasn't ready in 2004.

[David Jamieson]

oop my bad, i shoulda remembered that as I did read it.

I guess thinking about hot sex with the wife pushed the other info out. :D

[Lokhopkuen]

They got the vendors away from the temple but in the Forest of Pagoda (a grave yard) they got tons of rude independent sales people shoving beads and post cards down ya throat.

Cleaned the place up though. Disneyland clean!


Any idea where that is exactly? I know the temple pretty well and I can't pinpoint it from that shot at all. Of course, I haven't been back since the last World Traditional Wushu Festival (http://www.martialartsmart.com/dvd-gc001.html) (which is partially what that article is covering) and I hardly recognized the place then either.

KL: You're behind the times. The abbot purged Shaolin of most of the tourist vendors a few years back. It started in 2000 - see Karmic Wheel Turns at Shaolin Temple: A Controversy Erupts at Songshan by Martha Burr and me in our 2000 December issue. (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=130) We've covered the changes in every Shaolin Special since. The last time I was back, there was only a small section of tourist vendors by Talin, and the typical stands within any Chinese temple. They were scheduled to open a big gift shop at the new front gate complex, but it wasn't ready in 2004.

[GeneChing]

Did you know that Disneyland steam cleans all the streets every night? Shaolin is a long way from that.

As for those independant vendors, I challenge you to find a temple in China that doesn't have tourist vendors. In fact, when the initial purge of vendors happened, where did all the Shaolin vendors go? They moved to Baimasi (white horse temple). Everywhere that I've travelled in Asia - China, India, Bali, Thailand, Singapore - there are always tourist vendors at temples. Why should Shaolin be different?

Personally, I miss the old village and it's crazy vendors. I got a huge collection of Shaolin kitsch. Someday, I'll write an article about it, but it's way on the backburner...;)

[David Jamieson]

Pics and product info ~G, that's what we need.

Now that's an article I would like to read!

[GeneChing]

I've talked to a few people returning from the 2nd World Traditional Wushu Festival now and got a little more on this site. It seems that there was a new auditorium constructed for an opening ceremony. It's near to Dengfeng, carved into some cliff, just off the expressway. The cliffs form the auditorium walls or something like that. Our former editor Martha Burr just returned from it and she was very impressed by the opening. Tan Dun worked on it, and she said it was very tasteful and artsy. She's a discerning critic and been to plenty of Shaolin festivals, so if it impressed her, that's saying something. I'm hoping to see some pics and some video soon.

DJ: My future Shaolin kitche article would cover a lot of stuff that you can't get anymore - weird Shaolin collectables, ranging from really nice stuff to really cheesy stuff. It's on my 'to do' list, but it didn't make this upcoming Shaolin special. Maybe a future one. Got to show off the collection, doncha know? ;)

[GeneChing]

Here's the official website (http://www.wushu.gov.cn/wushu/node_2711.htm). It's a little late, but better late than never.

[David Jamieson]

~g

you ever gonna do an article on what the pre-requisites are to becoming a member of the modern shaolin order?

I think something along those lines would set straight a lot of misconceptions about what shaolin is.

Just an outline of must haves and must dos in order to be a member.

It's pretty exclusive, that we know. But we also wanna know how exclusive, and I'm sure there are planty of kip dynamites out there who are just dying to be a shaolin monk and need the info. :D

[GeneChing]

DJ, they let me in. I've been a disciple for over a decade now. And my skillz suck. How freakin' exclusive could it be? Think about that. :D

P.S. I decided to merge Xiao's thread on the renewed temple pic with the old 2nd World Traditional Festival just to keep the topic unified.