Hello. I need advice for building a specific kind of shape and body physique

[phengliekai]

Greetings forum. I'm new and wanted to dive into building up a specific form to my physique.

I invite you to view a quick set of screenshots of actor Mark Dacascos from "The Crying Freeman" - specifically I'm concentrating on his trapezius, arms, chest shape.

1) Trapezius - (notice his trapz are pretty straight angles and not bulging arches like most body builders trapz are?)
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=460104
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=460106
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=460107

How might one acheive this using martial arts form strength training? Can you recommend specific excercises? Do you think he acheived this using bodyweight excercises, or lifting weights? The emphasis here again being his angular cuts and build as opposed to that bulbous round look of weight lifting body builders.

2) Arms - (notice his bicept and the surrounding 'hexagonal' like cut? also notice his huge deltoids? Just wow!)
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=460108
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=460110
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=460111

What form of martial arts strength training can I practice to acheive this result?

3) Chest - (back to this image. His chest again is not bulbous and ballooned like a body builders. It's almost flat, like a sheer faced slab. You would think all he has done was flat bench pressing without incline.)
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=460104

Could this be acheived without dumbells and bench pressing?

To me Mark represents an ideal body type that I'd like to template myself under. His backround includes Wun Hop Kuen Do Kung Fu, Shui Jiao (Chinese Judo), Shao-Lin styles, as well as Chin Na, Shui Jao, and Tai Chi. These might give a little insight into the kind of strength training techniques employed that built his type of physique.

Quoting his page http://www.markdacascos.com/martialartistf.html Mark says, "My daily workouts vary. When I'm working a twelve- to fourteen-hour day, I usually don't have a lot of time to sweat for an ideal two to three hours. I have to be content with push-ups, leg-lifts, crunches and handstands -- things I can do in my hotel room without needing equipment. I try to stretch before and after work. On the set, I can usually find something I can hang from to do pull-ups and leg-lifts on. When I'm not working, I try to see my Kung Fu teacher three to four times a week. On the other days, I like to tumble or run or surf. I need to do something every day. Even on my rest day, I like to at least do a stomach exercise."

I've also been reading up on kettlebells/clubells and an interesting similarity that overlaps with the above questions became apparant.

Quoting these two pages:

Rounded Bodybuilder vs. Rock Hard Kettlebeller
http://kettlebell-training.com/archives/rock-hard-kettlebeller-vs-rounded-bodybu-129.html
"Now don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with the whole "bulging muscles" look, but bodybuilding seems to give more of a "rounded features" physique than a chiseled-from-rock look. I can't describe it much better than that. It's not a fat look, it's more of a inflated muscle look... more like your muscles were pumped full of air than that of having taken a chisel and chipping away the fat to expose the ripped muscle underneath. So remember, pick your workout method, pick your physique."

(Before & After picture) Kettlebells, Bodybuilding and Physical Appearance
http://kettlebell-training.com/archives/kettlebells-bodybuilding-and-physical-ap-118.html
"Using kettlebells I didn't have as much of a "rounded" look to my muscles as in the bodybuilding photo. KBs lead to more of a lean, tight look than the BB method. Pick your method, pick your look."

Might these be similar strength training tools that Mark Dacascos used? The reason I ask is because avid kettlebell users appear to build up a similar physique as Mark. Check out Russian kettlebell trainer Pavel's body - similar deltoids, bicep, chest. I understand there are Chinese variations of this.
http://www.dragondoor.com/images/pavel_bio.jpg
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0938045199/ref=sib_dp_pt/002-9081269-1851267#reader-link


Thank you for reading. I enjoy being here and look forward to learning some practical tips.

[Charles T Rose]

You need to find what works for your body and not have a man crush on this dude ;). Dont set yourself up for body image problems.
I did traditional weightlifting for 15 years before I switched to the IMO superior CST system with clubbells. If you dont need to gain much weight I would recomend this method. If you do need to gain weight then tradional bbuilding methods are best at first but not long term as it doesnt mesh well with ma training like bells.

regards

[phengliekai]

You need to find what works for your body and not have a man crush on this dude ;). Dont set yourself up for body image problems.
I did traditional weightlifting for 15 years before I switched to the IMO superior CST system with clubbells. If you dont need to gain much weight I would recomend this method. If you do need to gain weight then tradional bbuilding methods are best at first but not long term as it doesnt mesh well with ma training like bells.

regards

Hey Charles! Thanks, ;)

Reading a little on CST and it appears to work entire muscle groups at the same time. Real workhorse type stuff like Ross Training with the sand bag and keg lifts. I wonder if traditional weightlifting causes physique 'roundness' because the lifting forms isolate muscle groups too much, even with super sets. Bodyweight and CST training definetly seems to build a different body physique from BB because the lifting range of motions aren't linear.

[SevenStar]

Crying Freeman was and awesome anime, but the movie sucked.

[Chief Fox]

No doubt that dude has got a nice physique but I preffer to train for performance rather than appearance. After all, if I was ever to get into an altercation, I doubt if my opponent would challenge me to a pose down. :D

In my opinion a martial artist should train to improve.
Technique, Balance, Stength, Explosive Power, Speed, and Endurance. Not necessarily in that order.

Now if you address all of these items in a balanced program,mix that with a clean diet, then a nice physique will be a plesant side effect.

Of course if your lats or biceps need more development then you could do a focus workout on these body parts once a week to address it but if I were you, I would focus on the items above.

So, now the trick is to find a workout that addresses the above.

First, your kung fu training and practice will address the above to a certain extent. But in my opinion, you need to do more.

There are lots of programs to follow out there that will probably give you the same or simular results.

The first thing I always do (and you should listen to me because I'm a published author http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=677 ;) ) is invest in educating yourself.

Do some research on different types of workouts. Here are some websites that I would check out:

http://www.rosstraining.com/
http://www.crossfit.com/
http://www.trainforstrength.com/
http://www.dragondoor.com/
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/index.html

Buy some books or DVDs. Think about and come up with your "goal". Is your goal to perform better as an athelete and a martial artist or is it to have nice traps, lats, pecs and biceps. Any goal is fine and can only be defined by you.

If you want to perform better as an athlete and a martial artist then I can't recommend Ross's book "Never Gymless" enough. Ross has done all of the research and he breaks things down so the make sense.

1. Come up with a goal
2. Educate yourself
3. Eat a clean diet
4. Get started.

One last thing. Read this pullup article: http://www.dragondoor.com/articler/mode3/7/

For that matter, read all of the articles on Dragondoor and Ross's site. Ross's site has some great videos too.

Good luck.

[SevenStar]

here's the plain and simple skinny about physiques - don't try to build your body like his. shape, depth, etc. are all predetermined by genetics. Besides, if you are serious about your training - moreso than you are with the look - then how your muscles LOOK isn't important... you sound like the bodybuilders that you are trying so hard not to look like.

[SevenStar]

You need to find what works for your body and not have a man crush on this dude ;). Dont set yourself up for body image problems.
I did traditional weightlifting for 15 years before I switched to the IMO superior CST system with clubbells. If you dont need to gain much weight I would recomend this method. If you do need to gain weight then tradional bbuilding methods are best at first but not long term as it doesnt mesh well with ma training like bells.

regards

strength training meshes fine with MA if you are doing it right. lifts that incorporate the whole body are what you are looking for - compound movements, like deadlifts, cleans, etc. and movements that may not invlolve the whole body, but incorporate multiple muscle groups, like squats and bench presses.

this training can also be done without gaining weight. It's all in how you train.

[SevenStar]

Hey Charles! Thanks, ;)

Reading a little on CST and it appears to work entire muscle groups at the same time. Real workhorse type stuff like Ross Training with the sand bag and keg lifts. I wonder if traditional weightlifting causes physique 'roundness' because the lifting forms isolate muscle groups too much, even with super sets. Bodyweight and CST training definetly seems to build a different body physique from BB because the lifting range of motions aren't linear.

it only isolates muscle groups if you do isolation movements. Yes, bicep curls and tricep pushdowns isoloate. No, cleans, snatches, overhead presses and squats do not.

'roundness', if I'm interpreting what you are referrinf to correctly - are mass and genetics issues. Some women, no matter how big they are, will have a flat ass. some, no matter how small, have an apple bottom ass - genetics. Men are the same way. whether I built my 230 lb physique via weights or bodyweight movements is really irrelevant.

[phengliekai]

Thanks for the replies. Yes, I figured it would be wishful thinking without considering genetics.

Can anyone recommend an excercise that can build up that trapezius though? Preferably the upper apex line that draws up to the neck?

I've noticed doing standing dumbell shoulder shrugs really blasts the backside of the trapezius. I don't want thickness, I'm thick enough, I need more height.

[SevenStar]

that's a small area.... you're not gonna find an exercise that only isolates the top part. You work it all. Genetics has dealt it's hand, from the sound of it.

[The Willow Sword]

remember that this actor has personal trainers and works out according to whatever role he is playing (which is mainly action movie roles) he prolly has a rigorous diet and training program that ecompasses just about everything from pilates to your good ole fashioned free weights workout.

if you are wanting to get a physique like these actors you may want to ask yourself if you have the free time and disposable income to indulge on a constant basis what these action movie stars do.

in the years that i have been in martial arts i have rarely ever seen a fighter with the physique characteristics that Marc Dacascos has. Fighters tend to have a bit more pudge on them and have a bulkier exterior. in the CMA realm you have a more lacadasical approach and you get a higher ratio of skinny dudes that do not look like they train very hard, but looks can be decieving.

i say you incorporate whatever martial training you are doing with the gym and a very good diet and personally i would recommend YOGA so that you can actually facilitate a change in your physique. I am starting to swear by yoga now that i have been doing it for a while. i practice the Bikram Yoga and it is a torture chamber of a workout, you suffer, you hurt and you get rid of weaknesses in your body you did not know you had.

Cheers,TWS