Is Shaolin-Do for real?- THE POLL

[sunfist]

With several threads running in circles of rhetoric, you knew it was coming.

To further clarify the question, do you believe shaolin do teach the TCMA that they propose to teach authentically?

[omarthefish]

The most entertaining thing about the whole topic is that fact that so many people even entertain it as a legitimate question. I pretty much had to pick the comedy option because that's what it is, a comedy. I can't even be bothered to construct a real argument because that actually dignifies their position as the subject becomes "debateable" when actually, no, it's just a joke.

No connection with Shaolin whatsoever and the entire history is just plain fabricated out of whole cloth. I won't knock on their schools because they don't seem particularly better or worse than the average MA school but I won't argue with whatever rep comes on here soon to explain how "Sure, there are some questions about the history but....."

lol. Not "some questions" more like "Completely made up."

End of story.

[yu shan]

I really do not care but, I do know Judge Pen is for real! I`ve seen the boy fight.

[bodhitree]

I dont care, but I would also cast a vote that having 'I don't care' as a poll option is not funny;)

[Judge Pen]

Because public opinon legitimizes everything....:rolleyes:

Yu Shan, thank-you for the complimentary words.

[LongPath]

I trained for a couple of months at one of the schools.

The people are wonderful, and very serious martial artists.

Is it a real martial art? I know it sure as heck ain't karate, since I have previous training in TKD and Shotokan. It seems completely unrelated to them, and the stances are basically the same as what I am learning in Tai Chi now.

They are very serious about what they teach, and they are less profit oriented than most other schools I've seen. In other words, I think they are good schools with good/serious martial artists.

On the other hand, their "lineage" seems like a total crock. Sorry! I see it as a melange of CMA from Indonesia.

Can't explain Sin The, never met him.

[omarthefish]

I really do not care but, I do know Judge Pen is for real! I`ve seen the boy fight.

So can Crocop but that doesn't make him "authentic TCMA".

So can Royce Gracie but that doesn't make him "authentic TCMA".

So can Fedor but that doesn't make him "authentic TCMA".

So can a LOT of people but that doesn't make them "authentic TCMA".

Judge Pen's ability to fight is 100% irrelevant to the poll.


Everyone who voted that they are "authentic TCMA" has their head so far up their you know where they can almost see their own tonsils.

[Judge Pen]

So can Crocop but that doesn't make him "authentic TCMA".

So can Royce Gracie but that doesn't make him "authentic TCMA".

So can Fedor but that doesn't make him "authentic TCMA".

So can a LOT of people but that doesn't make them "authentic TCMA".

Judge Pen's ability to fight is 100% irrelevant to the poll.


Everyone who voted that they are "authentic TCMA" has their head so far up their you know where they can almost see their own tonsils.


In the words of the Dude, "Like, hey that's just your opinion, man." :D I think the idea of a public poll on this topic is silly and irrelevant. I also think that those trying to voice their opinions louder to make them seem more legitimate is also silly.

[sunfist]

think the idea of a public poll on this topic is silly and irrelevant.

Its fairly obvious that nobody actually wants to change their oppinions, it is in the intrest of pragmatism that we can now tick a little box instead of write a 1000 word manifesto, wouldnt you say?

[Judge Pen]

Its fairly obvious that nobody actually wants to change their oppinions, it is in the intrest of pragmatism that we can now tick a little box instead of write a 1000 word manifesto, wouldnt you say?

I learn more from discussing the details then just seeing the finished result.

[Golden Tiger]

Omar,

SD and Master Sin visit X'ian every time they travel to China and stop by and do a demo at Master Zhao's school. Seems like I even told you about a month prior to their last visit. Must not have been able to make it.

Anyway, Master Zhao and his teachers seem to like something about Sin The', seeing that Zhao traveled to the US and spent a week staying with him in Cali.

I think they are returning in a year or so and I will do my best to keep you updated so maybe you can stop by and help them remove their heads.:rolleyes:

[sunfist]

Never fear JP, this thread is already taking on some of the charming character of the old one :)

[omarthefish]

In the words of the Dude, "Like, hey that's just your opinion, man." :D I think the idea of a public poll on this topic is silly and irrelevant. I also think that those trying to voice their opinions louder to make them seem more legitimate is also silly.

It's not just my opinion. It is also the opinion of pretty much anyone on the planet with any actual ties to Shaolin. It is the opinion of the historical researchers out ther and honestly, eeveryone not affiliated with Shaolin Do. You may as well be arguing for legitimacy of Alian abductions. There is just as much evidence out there. The actual lineage and history from the Shalin temple is documented well enough that you just need to to the tiniest bit of actual historical research to see that the Shaolin Do history is 100% fabricated.


Omar,

SD and Master Sin visit X'ian every time they travel to China and stop by and do a demo at Master Zhao's school. Seems like I even told you about a month prior to their last visit. Must not have been able to make it.

Anyway, Master Zhao and his teachers seem to like something about Sin The', seeing that Zhao traveled to the US and spent a week staying with him in Cali.

I think they are returning in a year or so and I will do my best to keep you updated so maybe you can stop by and help them remove their heads.:rolleyes:

I do actually have a vague memory of someone saying something about that but I still don't see how it's relevant.

You need to be more specific than "Master Zhao". There is a Zhao Xiangjun Wushu Xuexiao here in Xi'an not far from me. "Master Zhao" is my gongfu nephew. :) But even if he is a **** Sanda superstar, see my previous post. Sin The could be the next Pride Grand Prix Champion. How is that relevant to his connection to the Shaolin temple? How does that legitimize his fairy tale history?

I refuse to specifically attack the details of the Shaolin Do official history because it is so funny it's like getting into an argument about the historical roots of the assasin Gen from the video game "King Of Fighters". :rolleyes:

All Shaolin Do derserves in terms of historical review is ridicule, plain and simple. Everone with any serious background in actual TCMA knows it.

[Judge Pen]

The poll was TCMA not pure shaolin kung fu. I don't beleive everything in SD's history (in fact I take it with a very large grain of salt) but a history that isn't all true doesn't meant that SD isn't TCMA. It doesn't meant that the source material wasn't Chinese.

When did you get appointed to speak for everyone else but those that do SD? You speak for everyone with a serious background in TCMA now? Let me see your proxy papers. Ask if you can vote in the poll more than once since your opinion obviously means more than everyone elses. :rolleyes:

[Radhnoti]

I think their historical beginning is fabrication, but I think it started as Chinese. It travelled through two countries since and admits to having changed from it's original form. If I were classifying it NOW I wouldn't call it "kung-fu" as that seems to imply "one level" of removal from China to the kung-fu elitists. I'd call it kuntao, but as that's not an option and none of my qualifiers were available in the list I had to vote "authentic TCMA".

[omarthefish]

The poll was TCMA not pure shaolin kung fu.

Shaolin Do.......as American as apple pie. :D




I don't beleive everything in SD's history (in fact I take it with a very large grain of salt) but a history that isn't all true doesn't meant that SD isn't TCMA.


I was waiting for this argument. Mentioned it in the first post. Sticking to my guns of not arguing with such nonsense. Not "isn't all true" but rather "isn't true at all".

[BentMonk]

It's not just my opinion. It is also the opinion of pretty much anyone on the planet with any actual ties to Shaolin. It is the opinion of the historical researchers out ther and honestly, eeveryone not affiliated with Shaolin Do. You may as well be arguing for legitimacy of Alian abductions. There is just as much evidence out there. The actual lineage and history from the Shalin temple is documented well enough that you just need to to the tiniest bit of actual historical research to see that the Shaolin Do history is 100% fabricated.



I do actually have a vague memory of someone saying something about that but I still don't see how it's relevant.

You need to be more specific than "Master Zhao". There is a Zhao Xiangjun Wushu Xuexiao here in Xi'an not far from me. "Master Zhao" is my gongfu nephew. :) But even if he is a **** Sanda superstar, see my previous post. Sin The could be the next Pride Grand Prix Champion. How is that relevant to his connection to the Shaolin temple? How does that legitimize his fairy tale history?

I refuse to specifically attack the details of the Shaolin Do official history because it is so funny it's like getting into an argument about the historical roots of the assasin Gen from the video game "King Of Fighters". :rolleyes:

All Shaolin Do derserves in terms of historical review is ridicule, plain and simple. Everone with any serious background in actual TCMA knows it.

Dude you said you weren't going to get worked up. If this is you mellow then I'd cut back on the caffeine. :D I would think that if GM Sin were as bogus as you guys think he is, then "genuine" TCMA masters wouldn't want to be anywhere near him, much less acknowledge him as a peer. Yet they do. Hmmm....maybe they know something you guys don't. You may flame when ready. My gi is flame proof thanks to ancient SD magic. :D

[tattooedmonk]

Dude you said you weren't going to get worked up. If this is you mellow then I'd cut back on the caffeine. :D I would think that if GM Sin were as bogus as you guys think he is, then "genuine" TCMA masters wouldn't want to be anywhere near him, much less acknowledge him as a peer. Yet they do. Hmmm....maybe they know something you guys don't. You may flame when ready. My gi is flame proof thanks to ancient SD magic. :D ....that plenty of these""authentic tradtional chinese masters of kungfu"' who are not students of his call him Master Sin......

just to name a few that I have witnessed in person would be; Eric Lee( Shaolin), Dr. Zee Lo( Jeet kune do ), Douglas Wong( White lotus), Larry Ma ( jun fan / jeet kune do), Greglon Lee( jun fan/ jeet kune do), Kam Yuen( Shaolin)........

......there are few more that I did not witness but even Bill "super foot "Wallace competed in Master Sin's tourney back in the day...and Jim Kelly ( from enter the dragon fame) was a student for a time. Arnold the Governator even went to the sports complex back in the day

..... so if Master Sin is not the real deal and SD is not real how come these guys call him master and want to be around him as well as want to learn material from him??

( he told them they had to start at white belt like the rest of us....LMAO)!!!

[BoulderDawg]

Is it real?......I don't know.

I'm sure if someone on this board messed with one of our black belts they could then argue the questions:

Is my broken jaw real?

Is my concussion real?

:D

[tattooedmonk]

With several threads running in circles of rhetoric, you knew it was coming.

To further clarify the question, do you believe shaolin do teach the TCMA that they propose to teach authentically?first of all it is obviously not taught in the ' traditional way" as you know it ......it is our traditional way...

do any of you know what a dictionary is??? ..you misuse words all the time to label and describe stuff that is just plain in accurate

...and second as far as teaching authentically ..what the F**k is that suppose to mean??

it is called Shaolin Do for a reason.....some schools call it Karate( china hand) other schools call it kung fu ( CMA????) others call it Shaolin martial arts...and actually calling them one form of martial arts over another is just wrong any way ....because it is more than martial arts...... the name says it all.....

and if any of you knew about what is real or not real shaolin you would know that all of this is an illusion made up in your mind( buddhist precept)

Get A life People!!!!

[tattooedmonk]

Is it real?......I don't know.

I'm sure if someone on this board messed with one of our black belts they could then argue the questions:

Is my broken jaw real?

Is my concussion real?

:D it is all an illusion made up in your mind ......

[omarthefish]

Dude you said you weren't going to get worked up. If this is you mellow then I'd cut back on the caffeine. :D I would think that if GM Sin were as bogus as you guys think he is, then "genuine" TCMA masters wouldn't want to be anywhere near him, much less acknowledge him as a peer. Yet they do. Hmmm....maybe they know something you guys don't. You may flame when ready. My gi is flame proof thanks to ancient SD magic. :D


I didn't say I wasn't going to get worked up.

I said I wasn't going to dignify this thread with an argument. :p Arguing about gong fu history with a SD supported is like arguing biblical history with a Mormon.

I believe this thread should be quaranteened in the Shaolin sub-forum along with the other 7,547 page thread.

[omarthefish]

Just out of curiousity, of the 8 people who voted so far that they are presenting actual TCMA, are there any that don't train at or haven't trained at a SD school?

[Flying-Monkey]

The SD cats know my feelings. However, i feel this thread should be deleted, because its goal seem to be to bad mouth SD like a group of High School bullies in the playground.

It would be different if it was like "I think ___, because___."

I feel that most people will vote i dont care because of the over 200 page thread where people have not really changed anyone else's mind. And that is with good arguments on both sides.

That thread is as long as a book.

[sunfist]

However, i feel this thread should be deleted, because its goal seem to be to bad mouth SD like a group of High School bullies in the playground.

It would be different if it was like "I think ___, because___."


The purpose of this thread is to conduct a poll, I dont see how the options can be considered biased, its a pretty straightfoward question.

[The Willow Sword]

I voted:cool:

[lunghushan]

So I don't like this poll. I voted for the last option (don't care, etc.)

Bottom line is:

Is Shaolin-Do Real ... well it exists, right? So it is real.

Is it Shaolin? Obviously not ... bagua, taiji, etc., are not Shaolin.

Did Sin The really study from masters, etc? Can't tell.

Are these people a good representation of each art? Who knows.

Are they really nice and do they have fun training? Seems like it.

Therefore ... who cares? Whatever ... :)

[Flying-Monkey]

The purpose of this thread is to conduct a poll, I dont see how the options can be considered biased, its a pretty straightfoward question.

It can be considered bias when people can post their bias opinion after they vote.

[lunghushan]

It can be considered bias when people can post their bias opinion after they vote.

What's wrong with bias?

[Flying-Monkey]

It does not give equal weight to both side. it could taint judgment.

[lunghushan]

It does not give equal weight to both side. it could taint judgment.

The bottom line is, we're not going to get to the truth about Shaolin-Do through some poll.

This is just a bias thing. "Is Shaolin-Do for real? THE POLL". It is all subjective and bias.

[sunfist]

We have 3 or 4 posters on here saying SD is not real. there are 7-8000 who say it is real.

Twas not I who broached the subject, nor am I getting involved with the issue on this thread. How relevant is it in the end? How relevant is anything? Its all perception, all an illusion as our slightly flaky friend tattooedmonk mentioned above. But allow me to riposte with some more kung fu movie philosophy: empty your cup.

[tattooedmonk]

Twas not I who broached the subject, nor am I getting involved with the issue on this thread. How relevant is it in the end? How relevant is anything? Its all perception, all an illusion as our slightly flaky friend tattooedmonk mentioned above. But allow me to riposte with some more kung fu movie philosophy: empty your cup.....I think:rolleyes:

[Green Cloud]

....that plenty of these""authentic tradtional chinese masters of kungfu"' who are not students of his call him Master Sin......

just to name a few that I have witnessed in person would be; Eric Lee( Shaolin), Dr. Zee Lo( Jeet kune do ), Douglas Wong( White lotus), Larry Ma ( jun fan / jeet kune do), Greglon Lee( jun fan/ jeet kune do), Kam Yuen( Shaolin)........

......there are few more that I did not witness but even Bill "super foot "Wallace competed in Master Sin's tourney back in the day...and Jim Kelly ( from enter the dragon fame) was a student for a time. Arnold the Governator even went to the sports complex back in the day

..... so if Master Sin is not the real deal and SD is not real how come these guys call him master and want to be around him as well as want to learn material from him??

( he told them they had to start at white belt like the rest of us....LMAO)!!!


OMG okay here we go, Eric Lee Shaolin = Wu Shu not Kung Fu, Jeet Kune Do an eclektic system of many MA systems not a traditional CMA.

OMG Douglas Wong White Lotus, at first I thought it was a sports car but it's a hybred systems mostly based from Sifu Ark Wongs stuff but nope not a Traditional Kung Fu system. More like a new system.

Kam Yuen who??? what ever:rolleyes:

Bill Wallace WTF??? Kick boxing!!!!!! Jim Kelley Ar ya FN kidding me!! Man youre strait out of a comic book.

The funny thing is everyone mentioned altough great MA never ever make up some false lineage.

This isn't about whether your style is good or not, this is about wether it's Kung Fu or not and it's not.

As far as polls are concerned I see nothing wrong with them and they do prove a point.

I know guys that discourage their students from going on these forums and I don't agree with that. Banning the popular vote is Communist and down right cultist. The truth will set you free:D

greencloud.net