300 [Archive] - Kung Fu Magazine Forums

sir-elrik

09-26-2006, 02:59 AM

i wl strongly advice u to read Gates of Fire by Steven Pressfield. An outstanding book that tells the story of Leonidas and his 300 spartans. Different time different people
One of the few good thinks to be a greek and called Leonidas like my self.

Leonidas is translated as the one that looks like a lion
and an accurate explanation by wikipedia about the fight

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=708717

mickey

09-26-2006, 05:21 AM

Greetings,

Here is more...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCfVgRqO6EA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s5e1W3mDfU&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-k8x4eA2F4&mode=related&search=

mickey

@PLUGO

09-26-2006, 11:32 AM

apparently it's due out on March 9, 2007 (http://www.comingsoon.net/films.php?id=12330)

and yes... it's a great graphic novel.

Li Kao

09-26-2006, 12:48 PM

I'm looking forward to this one -- I bought the individual issues of this comic book back in the day -- I think there were 5 or so -- and was really drawn in by the artwork. I've checked out the preliminary work they've done, and much like Sin City, it looks they are trying to preserve the "feel" of the comic, which is a great idea and worked very effectively in Sin City. Should be one of the coolest movies next year.

On a related note -- this reminds me of my old high school history teacher -- while covering the Greco-Persian war, he dubbed Xerxes with a new name -- Jerkxes -- because he had the sea whipped after his bridge over the Hellespont was destroyed in a great storm :) (those crazy denizens of yore)

Now hopefully one day Frank will adapt his Ronin series to film ...

@PLUGO

09-26-2006, 01:55 PM

I believe Ronin Has been optioned... might be a bit dated and need some reworking...

If you've only read 300 in the individual issue you Really should check out the graphic novel. The original artwork had to be heavily re-worked from its original format to fit the typical comic-book sized and dimensions.

Basicly each doublepage layout is one page in the Graphic Novel... but bigger.

Li Kao

09-26-2006, 09:47 PM

Hmm that has piqued my interest Design Sifu -- I think I will track down that graphic novel now just to see the new format. Plus, it's been years since I've read it anyways and all my old comic books are up in boxes above the attic.

As an adult who has long ago given up my childhood obsession with comics for the most part (but still likes to read them now again, especially the well written ones), I tend to like graphic novels better anyways -- you don't have to worry about bending the pages or keeping them stored in acid-free bags and the paper stock is always better as well.

@PLUGO

09-27-2006, 10:08 AM

Then you'll certainly enjoy the 300 graphic novel... it's hardcover and just a very solid book... the art looks great and it makes for such a smooth read in collected form. I tend to pull it off of the shelf and give it a read every so often. It's so self contained.

BTW:
here's what Frank Millar's had to say (http://www.comics2film.com/StoryFrame.php?f_id=21971) about the upcoming film . . .
"It's really hard to tell," Miller said about what was most satisfying to see translated. "The darker part of me would be when they start to push the dead soldiers on the immortals. It's so perfectly realized, but the combat stuff is pretty stunning. There are hundreds of images that I just looked at and, if I have to pick an ultimate favorite it's the shot of the boy stabbing the spear and seeing the shadow of the wolf with the spear going through his mouth. That was one of my favorite panels that I drew and he captured it to perfection."

PangQuan

09-27-2006, 10:22 AM

ronin would be an insanely awsome film if adapted correctly.

i think we can expect frank to make sure the adaptions are put through smoothly and correctly onto film.

he is frank miller

SevenStar

03-12-2007, 09:40 AM

I know I'm not the only one who saw it over the weekend. Thoughts?

@PLUGO

03-12-2007, 09:52 AM

if you haven't read it... I'd recomend it.

As for the film, it was great fun. The fight choregraphy was interesting, sure it was just a bit video gamey here and there but it seemed to serve the bad@ssatude of those spartans.

How historicly accurate we're to believe this story to be? No clue, there was a slightly tragic "black bad guys vs. white good guys" dynamic going on. Who'd have thought those persians where such pioneers in facial piercings?

ANYWAY it made for a fun night out.

:P

MasterKiller

03-12-2007, 10:09 AM

It was SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET.

History was way off, but I didn't mind.

I just wish I had Spartan abs!

forever3821

03-12-2007, 11:16 AM

yes, i agree the movie is great but the history is way off...the history channel did a better job. :p

PangQuan

03-12-2007, 01:15 PM

loved the movie. only movie since x-men 3 (total dissapointment btw) and super man that got me to actually go to the theatre and pay to see it.

NJM

03-12-2007, 08:58 PM

I was glad that they used the phalanx, it was realistic at least when it came to the pushing.

SevenStar

03-12-2007, 11:36 PM

It was SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET.

History was way off, but I didn't mind.

I just wish I had Spartan abs!

the current issue of men's health talks a little about leonidas' training regimen 4 months prior to the filming. his exact regimen is on the website

Judge Pen

03-13-2007, 05:20 AM

It was SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET.

History was way off, but I didn't mind.

I just wish I had Spartan abs!

Fukking A. As for the phalanx, they showed it in a couple of key times, but it seems that the broke formation way to often in favor of cool looking fight moves. But I thought the movie was a total blast!

SevenStar

03-13-2007, 05:11 PM

it's been all over cnn today. it's a big hit in greece, but the iranians will not show it in theaters. They are saying it is an insult to their culture, and they think the creator is trying to put them down...

Sang Feng Fan

03-13-2007, 06:01 PM

It would have been nice to see the Phalanx stack up tactically against the tactics of the thousand nations armies they faced but they were going for the look of the Miller work. Personally I can't stand the washed out color look of the film, it didn't work in "Saving Private Ryan," why hasn't it been put back on the shelf?

Historical accuracy aside, even if the movie showed that the Spartans had a slave to citizen ration of eleven to one, the Persains would be ****ed that they were shown to be the agressors. They have the same mentality as the French, they can never get over that they lost the number one spot among nations.

SevenStar

03-14-2007, 10:38 PM

Personally I can't stand the washed out color look of the film, it didn't work in "Saving Private Ryan," why hasn't it been put back on the shelf?

cuz it worked for sin city

Sang Feng Fan

03-14-2007, 11:46 PM

cuz it worked for sin city

It worked well in the comic and for my money I would have preferred to see an original interpretation.

It was like watching the remake of psycho, frame for frame, shot for shot, line for line, it brought nothing new, no new angle, revelation or point of view. It was too safe.

At least the versions of Beau Geste over the years took some risks, even the parody version.

MasterKiller

03-15-2007, 06:37 AM

So go watch the 1964 version "300 Spartans."

It's technicolor and even gets the history right.

doug maverick

03-15-2007, 08:29 AM

Originally Posted by Sang Feng Fan
Personally I can't stand the washed out color look of the film, it didn't work in "Saving Private Ryan," why hasn't it been put back on the shelf?

it's called bleach bypass and considering saving private ryan was a block buster it did work. as for the process it's used to enhance the silver tones in the film, and give your film a gritty look tony scott use's it alot and its always used for like action shoot'em ups cause it makes the EXT. look a buit depressing. the reason filmmakers keep using it is cause people like. your opinion of it is in the minorioty sorry to disapoint. but many a filmmaker use it and will continue to use it. also they didn't use it for sin city cause it makes you picture look really dark and had they used it you would not have been able to see the film. anyway just giving my two bits as a filmmaker. as for the movie it was a bit propagandirish for me. and yeah design your right i didn't lkike the bad black guy versus the good white guy thing either. but as for just an action movie it was good, not the best but good. get ready for a sequal, cause remember one of them servived and if we know hollywood (and we do) there gonna make a sequal with him as the lead, and proabably with the kings son all grown up. oh and on another note it did remind me of sam peckinpahs film the wild bunch. anybody else get that or was it just me, maybe it was all th slow motion.

Sang Feng Fan

03-15-2007, 11:03 AM

it's called bleach bypass and considering saving private ryan was a block buster it did work.

Masterkiller,

You are the third person to tell me that, I will.

Doug,

I know what it's called and I remember that most of the reviews canned the process as a cheap attempt to look like actual historical footage. My opinion represented a majority of what the industry and reviews thought of it, campy. Try bleaching on a copy of "American Ninja 2, The Confrontation" and tell me if it will pull in the same green at the box office.

Saving Private Ryan's success lied in it's casting, adults went to see Tom Hanks act, teenage boys to watch gore and fourteen year old girls went to see matt Damon cry.

Peace and radiation,
Chuk T.

doug maverick

03-19-2007, 08:14 AM

considering that we in the industry still use the process. for action and horror films. i doubt if its going anywhere so i guess you gotta get use to it.

5Animals1Path

03-19-2007, 12:24 PM

I didn't like it as much as I thought I would. I didn't like the addition of the scenes with the king's wife, nor the "extra freaky" minions of Xerxes. I also thought they could've done without the little additions to lines that made Leonidas seem much nicer then he was originally written.

Other then that, fights were good.

Li Kao

03-22-2007, 04:58 PM

I agree with 5Animals about the scenes with the wife and the political backstory. Didn't mind the mutant minions as much -- after all, it's a movie and not really supposed to be a historical documentary, so why not use the imagination a little.

Also agree that Spartan abs are impressive.

It was interesting to see the country of Iran up in arms about this movie. Maybe if I was Iranian, I would be upset too and feel slighted -- but it's just a movie, meant for entertainment, so I don't know why they get taken so seriously... when I watch the OUTIC movies, I'm not offended by the portrayal of the greedy imperialistic American pigs that are there to corrupt the East. Who knows, maybe I *should* be more "patriotic" but again, it's just a movie.

As far as numbers go, 300 has been a smashing success. In just 2 weeks, it has surpassed the 16week domestic gross of Troy, and now needs to make another 50 million or so to overtake Gladiator, which I would be surprised if it doesn't eventually do. Worldwide, it hasn't made the impact as the others have, but at least in the U.S., it has triumphed thusfar. Here is an interesting chart on BoxOfficeMojo called Ancient Battle Showdown, where they compare the numbers between these 3 films -- http://www.boxofficemojo.com/showdowns/chart/?id=ancientbattle.htm

mickey

03-22-2007, 07:29 PM

Greetings,

This was one horrible propaganda movie. They even go as low as to use the reverse of the Marine cry for the warriors. References to a New Age (New World Order), and staying the course for freedom made this blunt a very bad trip (and I don't smoke the stuff). There was nothing to enjoy when one has to fend off attacks to one's consciousness. What really makes it worse were the critics who steadfastedly denied that this movie had absolutely nothing to o with the war in Iraq. It had EVERYTHING to do with the war in Iraq. There was one instant that did ring of truth and that was when the queen slew the guy who betrayed her and all the coins fell to the ground. That was only one of two references that somebody is really getting over like a fat greasy rat from this war in Iraq and they are, regrettably, American.

mickey

lonewolf

03-22-2007, 07:54 PM

300 had nothing to do with the war in iraq. unlike some people i read comics, and unlike more people i realize that most other people don't read comics. when 300 was released on the shelves nobody in the comic biz thought that it would do good. after all how often do historical fiction about greeks do good in comics? 300 was a huge seller in comic shops and after sin city did so well why wouldn't hollywood try to cash in on another miller comic? as for the war, i think ladies and gentlemen we have found our first iranian on kung fu mag.com. who else would get so PO'd about this bad @ss movie? you can try to sit there and convince the world that 300 was propaganda but the rest of us know that it was SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEET! and we like our movies like that. we also know that it was to make rich people even richer but as long as they putout stuff as cool as 300 we are okay with that. :D

Li Kao

03-23-2007, 04:24 AM

Mickey,

Obviously others have brought up similiar arguments, but I think it's a bit of a stretch. The graphic novel was published in 1998, well after the first Gulf War and years before the current conflict. Frank Miller has stated he was inspired to make his comic version after seeing the 1962 movie The 300 Spartans -- what's funny is that there was talk back then of that movie having "Cold War overtones." Also, the point about the Greek who was betraying his own people by getting rich off the enemy -- he was eventually ferretted out and killed by his own people, right? So what is the message there?

Since we are currently still involved in a conflict, you could probably watch any war movie and draw parallels. I guess I just watched the movie simply for what it was, and not what it may or may not have been trying to preach. I respect your take and opinion on it, but I just didn't see it myself.

doug maverick

03-23-2007, 01:27 PM

but considering this was a real historic event all be it dramatized for the film. i guess we just have to close that part of our mind that tells us that this propaganderish bull****, and just enjoy it for what is a good popcorn flick with little dialogue lots of actions. and some tna. but i must say i ould've done without the bull**** about his wife who cares.one thing is for certain thou if we know hollywood and i'm sure we all do a sequal is deffently in the works.

PangQuan

03-23-2007, 01:42 PM

you can take most any movie and put any form of propaganda twist on it.

"why, oh why do you say that uncle pang?"

well its simple.

this type of propaganda everyone sees is not blatant. its very subtle yet they point it out as such that they claim it to be. however, often times you can point at one scene and find many types of propaganda for what your seeing. its all in the eye of the beholder.

if you look at the past, propaganda is always seen in things like this in regards to current state of affairs. could be true or it could be paranoid delusions and what i like to call propaganda seeking.

its so vague we see what we want to see. if your LOOKING for propagand you will most certainly see it. you can pull any movie you want out of a hat and i could link propaganda from more than one scene that could be linked to any various current or past world affairs. it just depends on how good of an imagination you have.

there is a song by Sepultura called Propaganda. basically they say dont believe what you see, dont believe what you read, because you never know what is and what isnt meant to be what.

of course we are surrounded by propaganda. its part of our culture.

i am not saying there is or is not specific forms of propagand in this or any other film. im just saying you see what you want.

if you choose to ignore propagand you wont see it. if you choose to look and find certain types, you WILL find it. even if it was never meant to be portrai in such a fashion.

mickey

03-23-2007, 06:34 PM

Greetings,

I was not looking for the propaganda. It just kept popping out at me from the screen. It actually took away from the movie.

Now, if the dialogue came straight from the graphic novel, then it would not be an incredible stretch to believe that Bush Jr. based his address on the 300 graphic novel. He has done worse.

In terms of historical accuracy, that is totally bypassed because it is based on the Miller graphic novel.

Does anyone remember that Oliver Stone crap about Alexander the Great. Well during the street celebratory scene and all the cheers, one can distinctly hear USA amongst the cheers. And that was another propaganda movie. And again, I was not looking for it.

mickey

Li Kao

03-24-2007, 12:27 AM

Mickey,

Your last post has me confused -- can you elaborate on the specific scenes or dialogue that took away from the movie for you?

From what I saw, it was a pretty faithful adaptation of the graphic novel, and a good deal of the movie dialogue was word-for-word from the graphic novel. I thought the same thing with Sin City -- it appeared that they went to great lengths to preserve the look, feel, and intention of the original comics. I had read all of the Sin City comics as well as the 300 graphic novel years before seeing the movies, and more so than than other movie that has been done on a comic book, both of these movies were amazingly like the comic. There was a review writtten up for Sin City that showed stills from the movie side-by-side with the corresponding comic book page, and they were eerily similiar. I'm sure you could do the same thing with 300.

I guess I'm just wondering what really bothered you so much about the movie -- I walked out thinking, wow, they really nailed it again (in terms of making the pages of a comic book come to life).

mickey

03-24-2007, 04:19 PM

Hi Li Kao,

1- The military battle cry of the U.S. Marines goes something like Huu ahhh. The battle cry for the Spartan warriors in the movie was Ahh huu, the reverse of the Marine cry.

(Trying to remember dialogue)

2- That their war was a fight for freedom-- freedom for their wives and children.

3- That they should stay the course of the war and not back down to the Persians.

I will try to find more. But that is just too much for me already.

Did the graphic novel have the aforementioned?

The reason why I say that George Bush may have ripped off the movie (or the graphic novel if the dialogue originates there) is because the movie may have been finished anywhere from several months to over a year ago. There was more than enough time to set this up.

I am interested in seeing how this movie affects Presidential approval ratings for the War in Iraq.

mickey

@PLUGO

03-26-2007, 02:18 PM

Is there a Propaganda slant to 300? Perhaps. (http://www.slate.com/id/2161450/) While I still enjoyed viewing this movie there were a few issues that really couldn't be ignored. The Black people = evil angle was just one.

I suspect this sort of film could only have been made at this time. The Movie did veer from the Graphic Novel in a few ways. One of which was the characterization of one of the characters.

In the film he was the guy looking for a "beautiful death." As written in the Graphic Novel he was a young solider who stumbled during the march to the Hell Gates and could barely live down that embarrassing misstep. It wasn't until he proved himself (by loping off the hand of that slave driving messenger) that Leonidas finally acknowledged him by calling him by name and giving him the ultimate honor of playing that pivotal role at the very end of Leonidas's Spear throwing gambit.

It's not a big change and could be justified as part of the screen-writing streamlining process. Still it significantly changes a thematic element IMO. Rather than demonstrating how a young member of a community can succeed in gaining the respect of his leader it became an ad for a (very short) life in the military. One doesn't have to do more than seek out a beautiful death to be cool.

That seems a bit like propaganda. I can't say for certain if it was intended that way. Having reread the Graphic Novel just before seeing the film it was a noticeable thematic difference.

I'm sure there's more examples to be found for those will to see. I almost hurt myself rolling my eyes during that "Freedom isn't Free" speech. Though I will admit to enjoying the Queen Gorgo subplot. Aside from giving the obligatory female lead something to do it helped to give substance to the final scene with 10,000 Spartans running to war, which I found to be a bit weak in the graphic novel.

As for Frank Millar's political views; his next comic will be BATMAN vs. Al Qaeda. We can all look forward to his socio-political insights displayed on the pages of that comic. Hopefully, also a drawing of Batman punching Osama Bin Laden in the beard.

On the other hand GWB seems to resemble Xerxes more than Leonidas. At least in terms of god complex and choice of transportation.

The Xia

03-26-2007, 03:02 PM

Did the graphic novel have that racial angle that the movie did?

@PLUGO

03-26-2007, 05:31 PM

Did the graphic novel have that racial angle that the movie did?

Interestingly many of the "Persian" actors were cast for their remarkable resemblance to the comic illustrations. This was not so much the case with the Spartans who seemed to have been drawn with more attention to their ethnic origins. Would white wash ba an appropiate term for the casting of the Spartans? I'm not sure.

Perhaps it's the nature of the Graphic Novel format but it seems the issue of race was not quite as apparent. It was Greek vs. Persian characters drawn in Frank Millar's unique style. I wonder if would be different if some of the lead Spartan were not actors from the U.K.

Jimbo

03-26-2007, 05:53 PM

Oddly enough, Persians (or what we today call Iranians) are Indo-European, and classified as Caucasian.

5Animals1Path

03-27-2007, 06:56 PM

I'd say the "Greek" characters were that in name only. In the book, there's not a one that doesn't have jet black hair, and if it's long, it's got curls. Also, as has become the running joke at my school, it could've done without all the Spartans having Scottish and English accents.

"Yew've come to tayk outr lahnd?!"

The more I think about it, the less I like this movie. :(

FuXnDajenariht

03-27-2007, 08:37 PM

not to nitpick but the greek battle cry sounded more like Haaa-oooom to me. :confused:

NJM

03-28-2007, 01:50 PM

I thought that the battlecry was one of the worst aspects of the movie. It made them sound like marines, not spartans.

@PLUGO

03-28-2007, 03:35 PM

yeah I was roling my eyes to that bit myself. Would have thought they'd bang their spears on their shields in the traditional sword porn fashion.

Radhnoti

03-29-2007, 08:13 AM

I've been a fan of the graphic novel for a while, and saw the film in a theatre a few weeks back.
Didn't like the Queen subplot so much...what IDIOT would think the evil POLITICIAN would honor his word. I'd like a little more wisdom from my Spartan queens.
Other than that, I enjoyed the movie. It IS violence as art, but that's my cup o' tea anyway.
I went in looking for propoganda, having heard some complaints on the news. I really didn't see much deviation from the graphic novel, certainly no deviation from the sentiment of the original story.