Taizu Longfist Vids

[onyomi]

Here's my shifu doing the first two forms of Taizu Longfist from the Jiaomen (Islamic) Longfist Tradition. Let me know what you think. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qy0f4Ojz__o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0f3tybhzweA

Also, here's San-cai Jian, a famous straight sword form from the Nanjing Central Martial Arts Institute:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8aVyzAFGSk

[tattooedmonk]

Here's my shifu doing the first two forms of Taizu Longfist from the Jiaomen (Islamic) Longfist Tradition. Let me know what you think. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qy0f4Ojz__o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0f3tybhzweA

Also, here's San-cai Jian, a famous straight sword form from the Nanjing Central Martial Arts Institute:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8aVyzAFGSkin the KungFu forum Mizong thread posted by the Xia for my opinion....

I really love this guys Kung Fu.....

[Royal Dragon]

I have a friend from a Taiwan lineage who says these are the 7th, and 8th forms of his Tai Tzu Hong Chuan style.

[onyomi]

I have a friend from a Taiwan lineage who says these are the 7th, and 8th forms of his Tai Tzu Hong Chuan style.

That's funny... Isn't Hong Quan a seperate set of forms from Taizu, like Xiao Hongquan and Da Hongquan? In my shifu's tradition at least, they are a seprate set of forms within Longfist. I've seen some other vids of Taiwanese practitioners in the Han Qingtang lineage doing forms called Taizu Yilu and Taizu Erlu which looked basically the same as my Shifu's. Is your friend possibly from a non-Han Qingtang Taiwanese Longfist lineage?

[Flying-Monkey]

Great stuff.

[David Jamieson]

nice set demos, but the sound effects are cheesy.

[mickey]

Greetings,


Thank you for sharing. Your Master's performance appears so effortless, it is as if he is dancing with the forms.



mickey

[Royal Dragon]

Tai Tzu Chang Chuan is a different, but closely related style. Both have the same origin, and from a technicall stand point are vertually identical in performance. Most people who do Tai Tzu Hong Chuan consider it the same as Tai Tzu Chang Chuan. In all honesty, I have not been able to differentiate between the two as of yet. The Shaolin Tai Tzu is the oldests set, and as far as i can see it is a whole style in one form. Only one of 3 sections are public though. I think Tai Tzu Hong Chuan is an expansion on the original system, as changing the original may not have been desireable due to honering the Empror and all.

Many lines credit the Emperor with developing all of it. The original Tai Tzu Chang chuan, and 4 short Tai Tzu Hong Chuan sets, and 6 longer ones (Your teacher's system). The Yilu, and Erlu you speak of are also part of that system.

My freind says the Xiao Hong your teacher sells as part of the tai tzu package is also from his system of Tai Tzu Hong Chuan.

Tai Tzu period, is very old, and has a lot of branches. My theory is that originally it was not a form, and just taught as a series of 32 techniques, and the fighting principals, and strategy used in thier implementation. it was a military art, and there was little time for forms. Soldiers needed skills to work quick, so the trainining was most like ly all two man drills and conditioning in addition to theory.

As I understand Chinese martial history, forms were not big untill the Yuan dynasty (Outside of Shaolin anyway). At this point, Tai Tzu surely had many branches. If each codeified their Tai tzu independantly, many lines would have evolved, all with different curicculems.

Your teacher's, and my freind are just two that are closely related (same forms, just taught in different orders). Given to similarity of the sets (according to him), and that both are Taiwan lineages, they may be brothers of the same line, or sibling lines.

Also, *Tai Tzu* Hong Chuan is different form regular Hong Chuan. There is more than one Northern style that carrys the Hong Chuan name, but they are sperate systems.

[onyomi]

Also, *Tai Tzu* Hong Chuan is different form regular Hong Chuan. There is more than one Northern style that carrys the Hong Chuan name, but they are sperate systems.

Interesting stuff. That would explain why my shifu's Xiao Hong-quan doesn't look much like most other Xiao Hong-quan forms I've seen.

Also, you're right about Taizu not having forms originally. I believe my teacher said it was just a set of positions and various moves or strategies you can employ from these various positions. The forms were probably created in the Ming or Qing, I believe.

[Citong Shifu]

Anyone heard of Cha Style Chang Quan?

CS

[Royal Dragon]

Yes, I have heard of Cha Fist. it is also a descendant of tai tzu. In fact, i do the "Cha Fist" version of the form in the links above. it is quite similar.

The forms were probably created in the Ming or Qing, I believe.

Reply]
I dissagree. Tai tzu (from what i can tell) was perfected during the Ming dynasty. I have heard the long form goes back to that time. the long form is taught in 18 sections, each section is 32-64 moves in length.

I believe the Shaolin created the first from during the Sung dynasty to preserve the Emperor's teaching's. later during the Yuan dynasty everyone else codeified thier Tai tzu systems into forms, so it was a common practice by the time the Ming rolled around.

Tai Tzu is a very old style. I think it changed in many branches around the time of the Qing, and went from being one long form, to each section being taught as stand alone forms for comercial purposes. As time went on the original order got scrambled and we have what we have now.

Incedentally, i have heard rummurs that the Long form still exists in some schools on the mainland. i just don't know where.

I am waitng for Shaolin Master, and Sal Canzonieri to chime in here. Both are more knowledgeable on the subject than i am.

[kwaichang]

Nice forms very fluid KC

[onyomi]

Onyomi, can I ask a honest question here and get an honest answer?

Onyomi, have you ever met this man doing the forms in these videos?

Um, yes I've met him. I would even say he is my friend. He taught me Longfist, Mantis and Qigong for 2 years in Taipei. Why would I refer to him as "my teacher" or "my shifu" if I had never met him?

[Citong Shifu]

OK great. It is just that those videos are professional/hollywood type multi camera/angle vidoes that look to be for teaching or portfolio for acting. And I know there are a few of us here that train systems from video claiming then that they know the system and lineage to that video instructor. So I was just curious and wanted to ask....

LOL, Ahhhhh, got to love those video masters.

[onyomi]

OK great. It is just that those videos are professional/hollywood type multi camera/angle vidoes that look to be for teaching or portfolio for acting. And I know there are a few of us here that train systems from video claiming then that they know the system and lineage to that video instructor. So I was just curious and wanted to ask....

Well, they are free previews for the instructional DVDs he produces and sells. He used to work in the Hong Kong film industry, which is where the "chop-socky" feel comes from, and which is also why he's good at getting the right camera angles, etc. for martial arts performances. The DVDs are very good and detailed. You could actually learn a lot from them, especially if you had previous experience in the styles taught. I use them a lot to review forms I learned from him and often find things I never noticed before, despite having gone through the DVD multiple times. I do have to admit that I've learned some forms he never taught me in person from his DVDs, though the degree to which I understand them is naturally somewhat lower.

BTW, Zhou Shifu has just recently started selling the DVDs for these two forms with English subtitles (translated by yours truely) at www.kungfuloung.com.tw. I highly recommend them to anyone who practices or is interested in Longfist. Of course, there are limits to how much you can learn from a DVD, but they're also way more detailed than 99% of Wushu DVDs/VCDs out there. (No, I don't get a commision ;) )

[Royal Dragon]

And I know there are a few of us here that train systems from video claiming then that they know the system and lineage to that video instructor. So I was just curious and wanted to ask....

Reply]
Like who? So far Onyomi is the only one who claims any lineage to him, and he learned personally from him.

[Royal Dragon]

(No, I don't get a commision )

Reply]
LOL!! You should, you have been doing so much promotions for him!

At the least, free lessons ;)

[onyomi]

(No, I don't get a commision )

Reply]
LOL!! You should, you have been doing so much promotions for him!

At the least, free lessons ;)

Well, I did actually get that...

I'm sure he'll reimburse me a little for the translations if the tapes start selling like hot cakes, but I mostly just did it as a favor to a friend (and for free lessons ;) ).

[Royal Dragon]

I am actually interested in copareing the moves to the Shaolin manuals that a freind of mine has. I am trying to cross refernce those froms with someone I know that does them.

[onyomi]

I am actually interested in copareing the moves to the Shaolin manuals that a freind of mine has. I am trying to cross refernce those froms with someone I know that does them.

I'm always confused as to whether or not these should really be called "Shaolin." Obviously, they belong to the greater "Shaolin/Longfist" grouping and Taizu Longfist was apparently practiced at Shaolin, but as far I can tell, these forms come from Shandong Muslims, not Henan Buddhists (though maybe way back when). Also, they differ quite significantly from the Taizu Longfist forms I've seen practiced by the modern monks (though who knows where they're getting their stuff from, to be honest).

Then again, it's all supposed to originate not with monks or Moslems, but the Song Emperor. Therefore, it's possible that this is just the Shandong Moslem interpretation of that famous style, while Shaolin has its own.

[Royal Dragon]

I'm always confused as to whether or not these should really be called "Shaolin." Obviously, they belong to the greater "Shaolin/Longfist" grouping and Taizu Longfist was apparently practiced at Shaolin, but as far I can tell, these forms come from Shandong Muslims, not Henan Buddhists (though maybe way back when).

Reply]
The style was preserved through Shaolin, The Imperial family, AND the military of both the Song dynasty, and the Ming.

I believe it was spread most prolifically through the Military chanells, and I'd be willing to bet that the Shandong Tai Tzu descended from this.


>>Also, they differ quite significantly from the Taizu Longfist forms I've seen practiced by the modern monks (though who knows where they're getting their stuff from, to be honest).

Reply]
The Shaolin re learned the set from a family sytem local to Henan, if I am correct. What they do is a form comprising the original 32 postures of the Emperor. It's considered the Oldest form known. Everything else came from that set.

>>Then again, it's all supposed to originate not with monks or Moslems, but the Song Emperor. Therefore, it's possible that this is just the Shandong Moslem interpretation of that famous style, while Shaolin has its own.

Reply]
Yes, I would agree.

Here is the original 32 moves of Tai Tzu strung into the Shaolin 32 move form. look closely at each techniqe, and see if you can see each one in your system. They should all be there somewhere.

Shaolin Tai Zu Chang Quan (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZkQ5qp5nHw)


Shaolin Taizu Chang Chuan (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ap1Ee9ftPY)

[Royal Dragon]

Here is another version of the Tai Tzu set your teacher does. This one is much closer to the version I do.


Tai Tzu Chang Chuan (http://www.yangsandover.com/videos.shtml?page=Li1)

[Royal Dragon]

Basically each developed acording to the personal flavor of it's founders.

The best would be to take what you have, and let it evolve into your own personal style.

[Wu-Tan-Nan]

I liked the vids. Long Fist is nice!