MULTIPLE FRIENDS

[LEGEND]

Let's be honest...most real fights involve more than 2 people...
BUT instead of saying the 1 guy vs. many...and u being that 1 guy. Let's say u or your friend end up fighting 1 guy...or let's say u're friend end up fighting the guy...would u jump in??? I have to admit...I have alwayz jumped in. Anyone else???

A

[Dragon Warrior]

i would never jump in unless my freind was getting his ass kicked. Then i would just stop the fight. Of course if the other guy was getting his ass kicked, i would do the same thing. No reason for anyone to get seriously injured because of a stupid fight.

For years, religion did nothing but divide. (killa priest)

Religion is like a prison for the seekers of wisdom. (killa priest)

[Kung Lek]

Second to DW on that.

peace

Kung Lek

Martial Arts Links (http://members.home.net/kunglek)

[Watchman]

I've already posted using the "Dark Side" of the multiple attacker scenario a couple of times.

I'll have to see if I can find the original over in the Wing Chun forum.

[Watchman]

For informational purposes only, of course. :D

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The multiple attacker equation is always looked at from the standpoint of the person being outnumbered. But, have any of you trained from the standpoint of using numbers to your advantage to take someone out?
I have a kung fu brother who is a long-time special operator for the US military, and who put some of us through the motions of sentry removal and "quick killing" using Wing Chun principles at one of our Summer Camps a few years ago. It was very interesting work, to say the least.

Basically, you've got someone that you need to take down/out quick. There are two or more of you. Now, what is the most efficient way of doing the job with the advantages you have in numbers and skill?

For your average group of street-brawlers who set about "jumping" someone, a multiple attacker scenario is a cluster**** from their vantage point because you've got a bunch of guys all trying to score hits on one target at the same time. What invariably happens is they get in each other's way more than accomplish the intended job quickly.

To give you an idea, stand a "victim" in the middle of three or four of your training partners. Designate a person to give a "go" signal. At the signal, all of you try to touch the "victim" at the same time. It's patently impossible.

However, to do it right takes some leadership and coordination. The most efficient way to play it out is for each attacker to take one "job": Top Man, Bottom Man, Striker. If there are three of you, designate two guys as the Controllers - one controls the top of the target's body (trunk and arms) and the other takes the lower half (hips and legs). One guy takes Striker (the guy that's going to do the damage).

For example, lets say you've got two "compatriots" with you and you need to take a guy out fast. You take the lead as the Striker and move toward the Target on his 12 o'clock. Your Controllers flank out on the Target's 2 o'clock and 10 o'clock respectively and move forward of your position a bit to cut off the potential escape routes (and it works best if you've put a wall or other obstacle at the Target's back).

Basically, the three of you are in semi-circle formation moving toward the Target. Once you've got position, the Controllers shoot forward on the flanks. Top Man works to restrain the arms and lead the head, Bottom Man comes in on the other side and uses his hands to lead the hips and stomps with his legs to lock op the Target's lower body movement. Top Man is the one who decides where to move the Target, and Bottom Man follows (you can't be tugging in two directions - no one goes anywhere).

Depending on the environmental circumstances, Top Man either slams the Target up against a wall/vehicle/obstruction, or slams him down to the ground. Once the Target is under some sort of control, the Striker moves in and starts punishing targets of opportunity while the Controllers maintain the struggle. Your job is done when the Target is mush.

There are three basic formations that you can use depending on how many "compatriots" you've got with you. Anywhere from two up to four or five (any more than five and you're just in the way...just sit back and watch the action).

In case you're getting the idea that I have serious sociopathic tendencies (which I do ), these tactics work extremely well for law enforcement officers working suspect arrests. I've "played" with some local sheriff's deputies who work the jail's Emergency Response Team (they basically raid a cell when a prisoner goes nuts) and have worked this stuff to great advantage - not to beat guys down, but make it faster, more efficient, and safer to restrain and arrest unruly prisoners.

My little brother and I practice the "Two Man **ck Job" (as he likes to put it) a lot. If there are two of you and you need to do a "job" you use the above tactics with some slight variation.

You've still got one Striker and two Controllers, but whoever takes the Bottom Man switches up to Striker as soon as the Target goes down. Here's how it plays using a hyposthetical example:

Junior and I spot someone who owes us money. We stalk him for two minutes until he puts himself up against an object (in this case, the Target is lifting the doorhandle to get into his car). I take the "lead" (the one that gives the "go" signal).

On my word, we quickly flank out to the Target's 2 o'clock and 10 o'clock postions, and close quickly. Target spots us coming and tries to bolt at 12 o'clock. Junior and I close together, and since Junior is the bigger of the two of us, he takes Top Man and ties up the Target's arms while I press his hips and land a kick into the side of his knee and start stomping his shins and feet. Target puts up a struggle and Junior leads/rushes him back so the two of us can slam him into the car.

*SLAM!*

Target is up against car. Junior pins his arms while I take up Striker. *BAM* I slam a groin shot - Target sags. Junior follows him down, slams him against the pavement and moves slightly over to the side a bit to stay out of my way while I start to stomp a mudhole in the Target.

Four seconds later, Target is mush. Junior and I quickly rifle his pockets and car for all valuables, then bolt a safe distance. There we tally up the loot using a quick "loot to debt" ratio to determine if we've got enough to prevent us from paying a follow-up visit to the Target. Then, we stroll along whistling a happy tune.

[Dragon Warrior]

a good technique is to crouch down behind your opponent, like you are crawling. Then have your buddy push him from the front. He will fall over you and land on his back. Works everytime! :D

For years, religion did nothing but divide. (killa priest)

Religion is like a prison for the seekers of wisdom. (killa priest)

[Water Dragon]

I like to instigate from the sidelines

Most actions of men can be explained by observing a pack of dogs. Not wild dogs, just neighborhood dogs who all scurry under the fence on the same night and set off together to reclaim a glimmer of the glory their species possessed before domestication.

[rogue]

Overwatch.

"Americans don't have the courage to come here," Mullah Mohammed Omar, leader of the Taliban who right about now is getting jiggy with his first of 70 virgins.

“Are you guys ready? Let’s roll.” Last words of Todd Beamer heard over his mobile line right before rushing a hijacker.

[Xebsball]

Watchman and Junior story, that is a classic.

-------------------------
"You will never need to feel weak, helpless, indecisive, not fascinating or ashamed of your genital dimensions. GOOD-BYE Humiliation. Bullies, Karate Experts, Boxing Champions, traffic wardens will melt to pulp as you master every situation."
Master Deltoo
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Stadium/2477/

[Sharky]

mug the mugger, rob the robber, jack the jacker, and stick up the stick up kids - i always have.

but please, don't rape the rapist, and murdering the murderer might be OTT, but then it might not be.

All i wanted was some RICE CAKES! Now? WE MUST BATTLE.

[Reima Kostaja]

hilarious!

[LEGEND]

WATCHMAN...I want u to be my FRIEND!!!

A

[Stranger]

In my training, we train for the "dark side" of the multiple attacker scenario. We also do a lot of group movement exercises as a prelude to eventually practicing mass fighting. You can develope a great appreciation of 360 degree awareness when strikes, blades and sticks are flying all over the place like a barfight down at the wharf. You are able to go at it in this training without getting competitive or personal because you aren't fixating on beating the one opponent who stands across from you at the beginning of one on one sparring- if you fixate, you'll be nailed by somebody else. Fun stuff!

I don't get mad.
I get stabby.

[Stumblefist]

Watchman:
I would have liked to see you and your friends go at Shioda. Like i say it impartially. He did at lot of multiple attacker stuff, he tied them up in heaps of bodies. But maybe he wasn't up against a professional team. But kinda bad for you if you lose.
Shioda, Yoshinkan's O-sensei is dead, but hen again there's Chida Sensei the new Dojocho in Japan and a few others. I wonder... :D :D :D

[Watchman]

;) :D

[Waidan]

For me and my friends, we've typically always jumped in when there's an outbreak of violence. Mind you, I'm not talking about an arranged/controlled fight, but rather an unexpected and sudden tussle. The way I figure it, the sooner it's over, the sooner we can pack up and take off from wherever we might be. And it doesn't do much good to wait till your friend is bloodied and beaten before I get involved. Get in there and end the conflict before anybody gets any stupid ideas and pulls a weapon or some junk.

[Jaguar Wong]

My bro and I used to practice multiple opponent stuff against the larger guys. It's great since we've been fighting each other so long we know exactly how the other will fight (no it's not because we're twins), so I always attack low, he attacks high, and we always make sure to be on different sides, no matter how hard the guy tries to keep us in front of him. Unless he's cornered, then it's just fun. :)

But Watchman scares me, because he actually seemed to put a lot of thought into it, as well as trying in the real world :)

Jaguar Wong

[Watchman]

Junior and I have gotten the same way in being able to instantly read each other's reactions to the point where it's almost like telepathy.

Another good method that we've got down to near perfection is using what we call a "Press and Fold". As we come up on the Target, I put Junior in front of me while keeping a hand on his shoulder so I can read which direction he moves and adjusts (like the way football receivers put a blocker in front of them).

As he rushes the Target, I put my weight against him so when he impacts you've got the momentum of both of us behind it. I keep my hand on Junior's shoulder and use it as a fulcrum point to spin completely around the Target to take his back and Junior takes up Striker while I keep the Target under control. [If the target goes to the ground from the impact, then I come around to control him in a north-south position while Junior frees himself up and starts stomping away].

The Press and Fold also comes in handy when you're dealing with two-on-two, or two-on-more situations. Most of the time when you and your partner are facing similar numbers it quickly degenerates into two seperate one-on-one fights where you are trying to dispatch your opponent as quickly as possible in order to free yourself up to help your partner.

In that situation you've equaled yourselves out with your opponents, and are therefore playing a time and speed game that you may very well come up holding the short end of the stick on.

However, what we have discovered is that if the two of us are facing equal (or superior) numbers, we can use the Press-and-Fold© to take one guy, break the enemy's formation, and either escape, or start wreaking havoc on the rest.

Here's what we do: say Junior and I have inadvertently ****ed off three guys that are now intent on sending us on a vacation to the local ICU.

As soon as we know trouble is about to happen in a big way, I grab Junior's shoulder with one hand and push him slightly forward and to the side. Since he's the lead, he makes an immediate judgement call as to who we hit and makes his move.

Being a street-smart kid, Junior rushes the guy on the far left (assuming they have fanned out in a semi-circle position) in order to put the other two completely on one side.

He impacts the guy, while I fold around to gain quick control, and starts slamming fast soft target shots (throat, solar plexus, etc).

When you rush one guy and start tearing him to pieces, the other two guys have to hesitate for a quick second to reposition and decide who they are going to attack first to save their buddy.

Junior and I don't sit there all day beating on one guy, of course. Junior slams a couple choice targets until I feel the guy sag, then I shove the captured enemy down, grab Junior's shoulder, and the two of us move on the next guy.

We've experimented with this a few times in practice runs, and found that works quite well if you both get your timing down AND DON'T GET CAUGHT UP WITH ONE GUY, because his boys will quickly get with the program and start trying to seperate your "team".

The biggest test run we did was one instance where we got four guys to be the "enemy" vs. Junior and I. All of us armored up with Harbingers, cups, and mouthpieces and went at it.

Junior and I took all of them out using this method. [We didn't escape completely unharmed ourselves, though].

It's a different story, of course, if the enemy has weapons, but your safety factor increses exponentially when the two of you are using a coordinated formation and escape out after mangling the first guy. Also, when you factor in that Junior and I usually aren't "unarmed" ourselves when out and about, then it tends to increase the odds of success.

[LEGEND]

The reason why I brought up this subject...is cause I go out in large groups...I use to hang with this one crew that had some very very attractive women tag along...anywayz...we would attract the wrong guy...and then a fight would breakout...he would get the **** tag out of them...along with US who got hit by friendly fire! LOL. The most successful multiple friend scenario involved 4 guys against this bigggggggggggg guy...2 of us took him down...the other 2 stomp and elbowed him. I even eye gouge the sucker. RESULT...we walked away...one of us got bit by the guy though.

A

[Watchman]

That friendly fire comment was funny, LOL!

You end up taking harder shots from your pals if you haven't practiced to do this.

Junior gave me an elbow to the face that dropped my to my knees once when we got into a scuffle with a couplle of other guys way back in the day. It got so chaotic with bodies pushing and flying everywhere that when I rushed to help him he mistook me for the "enemy".

After that we decided (for my safety, lol) to start coordinating better.