just starting wushu

[golden arhat]

just wondering does the wushu tanglangquan bear any resemblance to the trad version ?
oh yeah and i dont want to be told to stop doing wushu because it sucks or whatever just so u know

[mantis108]

I have but one word for you.

FUBAR

Sorry you asked. :cool:

Mantis108

PS you might be able to get info on the the KFM Shaolin board.

[mooyingmantis]

Golden Arhat,
It depends who is teaching the Wu Shu version. Some wu shu mantis contains many traditional moves and rocks. Some has no resemblance and is just performance art.

[street_fighter]

oh, another name for my ignore list... na, just kidding. I'll see what your posts are like first ^_^. Enjoy modern wushu, and I hope your flexible for your sake. The stretching they put you through is insane!

[golden arhat]

thanx
yeah the stretchin is intense but i'm flexible
but i train in traditional aswell i used to do hung gar for years tradidtional really helps when u start wushu it gives a solid foundation

i'l get back to all u lot on the mantis form once i start learnin tanglangquan

[bungbukuen]

Modern wushu is so far removed from traditional Chinese fighting systems in terms of purpose and training that it cannot be compared.

Enjoy your training.

[street_fighter]

Ah, then your in the same position I was in when I joined. I wanted to do more hung gar, but a few years ago out of desperation I joined M wushu. It is quite a change, but overall I think it did benifit me. The hardest part is learning to relax and remain light on your feet. My footwork was heavy like in hung kuen too, so I had to work on those stance drills like mad. There is absolutely no power generation in wushu, you just stick your arms out at funny angles as fast as you can. The first month is basically just walking and kicking yourself in the face like a thousand times with your hands out to your side. Good luck, and have fun. If nothing else, you should gain a new respect for these guys. There amazing athletes.

[K.Brazier]

"does the wushu tanglangquan bear any resemblance to the trad version ?"

yes, it is a combination of White Monkey steals the Peach, Beng Bu and in some cases another form called Luanjie. Though this may not be the case in your school, but I have seen many performances and has been this way most every time.

There has been an artistic interpretation added to these old forms that some people like and some don't.

Kevin



http://plumflowermantisboxing.com/

[mooyingmantis]

I think Kevin hit the nail on the head.
Here is an old Wu Shu video that is an example of our point of view: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d2FkXxSLmQ
Very stylistic/artistic, yet the traditional moves are certainly in there.

[bungbukuen]

Keven is right in terms of the original design of the form.

Mooyingmantis very nicely provided a video of the prototype that is now known today as PM in contemperary wushu circles.

But at the same time I think Keven and Mooyingmantis are falling into the trap of only talking about forms on a very superficial level, without providing the more meaningful martial context.

Traditional PM is a fighting system. In reality forms do not develop any real applied fighting skills, and in fact represent only one very small piece of the overall training regime.

As soon as you separate forms from the rest of the training regime they immediatley loose all martial meaning and become nothing more than outstanding visual modern jazz dance routines.

Now of course contemperary wushu is divided into forms and sanda. The forms side of things are so far removed from traditional Chinese fighting systems in terms of purpose and training that it cannot be compared. Even the sanda fighters usually laugh under thier breath about the forms competitors. From the san da perspective, this bears a somewhat closer relationship with traditional fighting systems, but is unrelated to this post so I will stop here.

BBK

[mooyingmantis]

BBK,
I agree with your points. Forms are not the end of martial arts training. I teach PM with a three part approach: forms, drills and fighting. Forms teach proper movement and theories. Drills apply the movements and theories in a contact situation against a conforming opponent. Fighting teaches the student how to apply the movements and theories against a nonconforming opponent.
Wu Shu has stylized the movements with bigger circles and a dramatic flair. I would not attempt to fight that way.
However, I was attempting to answer Goldon Arhat's question under the stipulation he requested:


just wondering does the wushu tanglangquan bear any resemblance to the trad version ?
oh yeah and i dont want to be told to stop doing wushu because it sucks or whatever just so u know

I believe Wu Shu is a great performance art that can draw others to the fighting-based martial arts. The performers are exceptional athletes and the movements are beautiful. I would love to see traditional schools perform both. Wu Shu to excite a crowd at tournaments and demonstrations, and traditional forms to teach the more practical combat movements and theories in the classroom setting. As an example, from what I have seen of Wah Lum Kung Fu, they have captured the essence of each and married them together successfully. JMHO!
Unfortunately at 48 my Butterfly Kicks can only be performed while rolling across the floor. :(

[golden arhat]

i tend to agree with mooying mantis
thanks for your help ppl

[bungbukuen]

Nice points MM.

On the forms idea, this could also be classified as single person exercise. With the exception of two person forms of course.

Modern wushu has dropped the drills and fighting parts you mentioned – it is only forms. They also cleverly use the word “sparring” to refer to their two person forms. A little misleading.

On the point of the excitement factor, I personally think the traditional Mantis forms are much more exciting to watch than the modern wushu forms. But of course I am biased. Only thing contemporary wushu has going for it are a few of the additional aerial kicks and the length. Mantis forms are conservative on kicks and very short. You would have to string four or five Mantis forms together to get over a minute.

No doubt though that the national level contemporary wushu performers are outstanding athletes and the movements of course still very beautiful.

BBK

[ironfenix]

I have seen a clip of the wushu pm form where a chinese guy in white pants is doing it. I don't know if it is the clip that mooying mantis put up. I have also seen some clips of new wushu guys doing it and they are totally freaking different. The moves from the older guy look like some of the white monkey moves that I do. Stances and such are solid, strong, and mobile. The new guys however make it look nothing like mantis. The stances are weak and flimsy and so are the hands. I recently visited one of those schools. Their idea of "fighting" was not very impressive. Maybe I am just bitter because I can't do the 1060 degree jumping kicks. Then again, the sign outside my door says kung fu, not gymnastics.

[mooyingmantis]

I have seen a clip of the wushu pm form where a chinese guy in white pants is doing it. I don't know if it is the clip that mooying mantis put up. I have also seen some clips of new wushu guys doing it and they are totally freaking different. The moves from the older guy look like some of the white monkey moves that I do. Stances and such are solid, strong, and mobile. The new guys however make it look nothing like mantis. The stances are weak and flimsy and so are the hands. I recently visited one of those schools. Their idea of "fighting" was not very impressive. Maybe I am just bitter because I can't do the 1060 degree jumping kicks. Then again, the sign outside my door says kung fu, not gymnastics.

Ironfenix,
Yes, that is the clip to which I linked. I agree that some of the more recent Wu Shu PM performances are far removed from the clip and have devolved into just quick moves with a lot of shaking their bums. Sad :(
Sadly, my old knees do not lend themselves to many jumping kicks these days. So I carry a ladder tucked in my sash for when I need to get off the ground high enough to kick my opponent in the head. :D