White Tiger kung fu!!!

[Infrazael]

This is for real? I heard this style was created in a similar period as Bak Mei.

Any info would be great, the video looks good and it looks pretty ****ed practical . . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5w4eRjCr4E

[Yum Cha]

Do a search for Doo Wai, see what you find. He has been discussed regularly on this site.

[Wu-Tan-Nan]

I'm sure you have seen this...:
http://www.tigerkungfu.com/index.php

[Green Cloud]

This is for real? I heard this style was created in a similar period as Bak Mei.

Any info would be great, the video looks good and it looks pretty ****ed practical . . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5w4eRjCr4E

Beware of guys wearing long silky smoking jackets on the set of what looks like a 70's porn studio.

My sifu taught me a Bok Fu kune set and it looked nothing like that. His form resembled a very bad Bok mei set and I stress realy bad:eek:

[Yum Cha]

Hey, ever seen the VCD where he offers to teach the secrets of Bak Mei and make you a grandmaster in the secret art for a once only payment of $30,000 USD.

That was back when he was young, still had dark hair. Its priceless, he then goes on to demonstrate in his lounge room....

Another one of my personal favorites is where he uses his skills of chi materialisation to make smoke come from his fingertips.....

[Green Cloud]

Yea this guy is too much, I saw some of his clips and I got the feeling this guy was on some LSD high or something in his groovy shagadelic pad.

[Wu-Tan-Nan]

What suprised me was the guys heavy breath after doing the form, if he is supossed to be really good, then he shouldent feel tierd after doing one form.

[Samurai Jack]

I saw a video of Doo Wai breaking a cocunut that was resting on a piece of tofu, without disturbing the tofu. No idea how he did such a thing, but THAT was impressive.

[Faruq]

Yeah, unless you know someone who fought him when he was a young turk, there's really no way to judge how effective his style is. I mean who even knows what province and town he grew up in? Who knows who his parents were, their names or if they were respected martial artists or not? Unless you know that kind of stuff, you're not going to be able to go to local county registries in China and corroborate him or his style. If I remember correctly, he doesn't use the word si gong for grandmaster, but some regional sounding word instead. Maybe that's the key to what region he and his style are from. I dunno.

[B-Rad]

I saw a video of Doo Wai breaking a cocunut that was resting on a piece of tofu, without disturbing the tofu. No idea how he did such a thing, but THAT was impressive.
Yeah, he has some interesting magic tricks :)

[Fu-Pau]

Apart from anything else… what’s with the kangaroo skins on his wall?...:confused:

[Juan Nowon]

I really think he put a lot of time on the footwork. Just look at it...

This guy is for real... I mean just read his web page: http://whitetigerkungfu.com/aboutbfp.htm This is family inherited gung fu were talking about here.

There is no way he could be stretching the truth. no way in hell.


This is direct lineage, make no mistake, His "skill" speaks for itself.


Time for another gung fu form!

[Juan Nowon]

I really think he put a lot of time on the footwork. Just look at it.

This guy is for real... I mean just read his web page: http://whitetigerkungfu.com/aboutbfp.htm This is family inherited gung fu were talking about here. Rare knowledge!

There is no way he could be stretching the truth. no way in hell.


This is direct lineage, make no mistake, His "skill" speaks for itself.


Time for another gung fu form!

[fiercest tiger]

He can move ok for a 60 plus year old i guess, have you seen him when he was younger?

Have you spoke to the man and asked him about kung fu?

[Fu-Pau]

have you seen him when he was younger?

Have you spoke to the man and asked him about kung fu?

Nope, I’m more interested in his kangaroo skins…

[fiercest tiger]

I gave them to him as a gift, he is a friend of mine!! :)

[Fu-Pau]

Ok. But that does not explain why they are displayed so prominently in his training hall … not that he is required to ‘explain’ anything to me mind you…

A friend once gave me a “Ninja Boomerang” that he bought in Italy, as a gift… If I ever have my own school, I will still probably not display that priceless heirloom on the wall… That’s just me I guess… stickler for tradition and all that…;)

[fiercest tiger]

No he doesnt have to explain to anyone, who cares what he has on his walls!

[Faruq]

More than anything, I'd like to meet some of his old high school buddies and interview them. You know, see his yearbooks and just ask what he was like. I can imagine one of his buddies saying something like "Doo Wai? Oh, he was a great guy. He was a stone cold killer, tough as nails, but really a nice guy once you got to know him. He also won our high school's sophmore talent show in 1923 with a 5 minute comedy routine. He was one heck of a guy, and funny as all heck!"


Do a search for Doo Wai, see what you find. He has been discussed regularly on this site.

[Dim Wit Mak]

What suprised me was the guys heavy breath after doing the form, if he is supossed to be really good, then he shouldent feel tierd after doing one form.


Let's give him a break on the breathing. Maybe he's a three pack a day man with asthma.:)

[Fu-Pau]

No he doesnt have to explain to anyone, who cares what he has on his walls!

... CITES may?:cool:

[fiercest tiger]

He is getting old and his health may not be that good you consider that, at least he is up showing something. Maybe you guys will never live to that age at all or even have that skill maybe you dont have that skill now? :p

Put up clips of yourselves doing fast forms?

[B-Rad]

Geez, he's not that fast... And now days I do come across more and more 60 year olds who are in decent shape and can get around pretty well. Especially those in martial arts :)

[fiercest tiger]

Same here brad, but that goes for alot of young people that cant move that well either!

He might not be that healthy now, but i do have young footage of him and he is extremely fast and powerful. I think the demos do not show him justice to be honest!

[Shaolinlueb]

im a nobody in kung fu. but im watching this "grandmaster guy perform" on some of the videos on his site, and he isnt even looking where hes punching or anyhting hes like looking to where he is retreating and jsut throwing his hands out. :rolleyes: not very good imo.

[Green Cloud]

im a nobody in kung fu. but im watching this "grandmaster guy perform" on some of the videos on his site, and he isnt even looking where hes punching or anyhting hes like looking to where he is retreating and jsut throwing his hands out. :rolleyes: not very good imo.

Put your hands up in the air and wave your hand like you don't care hey hoo oops sorry, I say when looking at stuff like this always trust your gut instinct.

[Green Cloud]

He is getting old and his health may not be that good you consider that, at least he is up showing something. Maybe you guys will never live to that age at all or even have that skill maybe you dont have that skill now? :p

Put up clips of yourselves doing fast forms?

When my sifu was is his sixties he certainly moved a lot better than that. As far as his health is concerned he had diabeates and smoked closed to a carton a day.

Even after suffering a stroke he performed at Tat ma wongs Tiger Balm Internationals in San Fran Sisco two weeks later.

[HupGerk]

LOL,

When will people stop talking crap on the ****ing internet?

Now, if your own teacher moved that much better...well CONGRATULATIONS TO YOU!

Now, have those of you who talk down GM Doo Wai met him in person? Have you spoken to him even?

Are you planning on doing so to get real life verification of you opinions?

If not, then guess how much your statements are really worth???

You don't like what you see, then don't look. Simple.

Anyhow, I definately agree with fiercest tiger, the public demos don't do his real skill justice.

/ HG

[Faruq]

Yeah, the myster surrounding Doo Wai has always pretty much made him an intriguing figure for me. I'd give my left nut to see him doing some Bak Mei or Bak Fu Pai forms when he was young. And again, if you never went up against him when he was young, I don't think you could really know how effective he was or wasn't.

[B-Rad]

Now, have those of you who talk down GM Doo Wai met him in person? Have you spoken to him even?
If the demos aren't that great, then don't talk like they are! Certain people act like he's the g** d*** flash from those videos, lol.

Anyway, a lot has to do with how much you believe in those magic tricks... if you're into that kind of hocus pocus, he's probably great. If not, well, he would obviously be a person worth avoiding :p

About White Tiger kungfu, are there any other branches of this style outside of his direct line, or does it all go back to Doo Wai? All I know of is Doo Wai, the ex-con con man (I can't believe I've forgoten his name, lol), and some Kenpo schools... and a fake teacher I used to study under when I was a young teen (not sure if he's still claiming to teach this style though :p).

[Green Cloud]

LOL,

When will people stop talking crap on the ****ing internet?

Now, if your own teacher moved that much better...well CONGRATULATIONS TO YOU!

Now, have those of you who talk down GM Doo Wai met him in person? Have you spoken to him even?

Are you planning on doing so to get real life verification of you opinions?

If not, then guess how much your statements are really worth???

You don't like what you see, then don't look. Simple.

Anyhow, I definately agree with fiercest tiger, the public demos don't do his real skill justice.

/ HG

Honestly I mean no offense here but seriously how can take someone seriously when their studio resembles a scene from austin powers.

And the silky pajamas that makes anyone go hmmm. From the three bows he did it seems that he is doing Bak mei.

If the man wants to be taken seriously he needs to remember that this is the year 2006 not the the late 60's.

Also the animal pelts are offensive.

[David Jamieson]

Hey, let's all talk about Bruce Lee's competitive cha cha dancing skeelz for a minute.

I'm not kidding.


...ok i am, but not about Bruce being a competitive cha cha dancer. That was his thing before he realized that gwailos are fascinated with waving arms around and fighting invisible opponents.

[fiercest tiger]

I could go to any of your sites that have talked st!t about him, and pick the **** out of all your forms and movement, stances even with out the pyjamas, show some respect to the old guy. so what you dont like it fine!

[Faruq]

See, this is what I meant about wanting to know who his dad was, what his name was, and what province and town Doo Wai was from. Lots of people visit China for gong fu nowadays, and stopping in his town to ask around about his family, the style and it's history there would be great. Has anyone here spoken Chinese with Doo Wai? It would be interesting to know what's his native dialect. He's an enigma to me as well, but rather than bashing him, I'm proactively interested. He seems to be a pretty wiley old dude, and is probably a load of laughs once you get to know him.



About White Tiger kungfu, are there any other branches of this style outside of his direct line, or does it all go back to Doo Wai? All I know of is Doo Wai, the ex-con con man (I can't believe I've forgoten his name, lol), and some Kenpo schools... and a fake teacher I used to study under when I was a young teen (not sure if he's still claiming to teach this style though :p).

[fiercest tiger]

He is from Chungshan (spelling)!
He speaks different dielects....

[Faruq]

See! Now that's what I'm talking about! Fiercest Tiger actually knows where he comes from instead of talking garbage about him. So if Fiercest Tiger ever goes to Chungshan, he can actually visit the family shrine, ask people about him and study the history of the style there. It seems like Fiercest Tiger knows the most about Doo Wai, and is impressed. So maybe if the detractors actually did some investigation, they would be less deprecatory about him.

FT, is Chungshan in the North or the South? What province is that in?

[mok]

Wether he's chinese or not has nothing to do with wether he sux or is a fraud or not.

[Faruq]

Who said him being Chinese mattered? I don't see that anywhere in the thread.

[mok]

This is for real? I heard this style was created in a similar period as Bak Mei.

Any info would be great, the video looks good and it looks pretty ****ed practical . . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5w4eRjCr4E

Allright, Didn't want to spell it out but here it is:

Infrazael: I can't believe you'd take this guy seriously, especially from the video you posted. All I see is an old-man with lots of fast hand-waiving, but no structure, no power to back it up, and no breath control either. Actually the fact that you said it was practical has me worried...

...What happened to you starting-up Hung gar? Or try a bak mei or an SPM school if you're looking for something similar to this guy, but done right - there's plenty of real ones out there.

[Green Cloud]

Hey, let's all talk about Bruce Lee's competitive cha cha dancing skeelz for a minute.

I'm not kidding.


...ok i am, but not about Bruce being a competitive cha cha dancer. That was his thing before he realized that gwailos are fascinated with waving arms around and fighting invisible opponents.

See this is exactly what I'm talking bout, the lofan eat this sh!t up. Put a silk robe on a american guy and every body automaticaly thinks he's a fraud, throw a robe on an old chinese guy and the Lofan think wow this is the grand poopa.

This is the very thing that brings the CMA down all the flash but no dash. I was taught Bok Mei by my sifu and I can tell you this, he's doing Bok mei not white tiger Bla Bla Bla

[Faruq]

Yeah, the Tun Tou Fou Chum isn't visible in his performance, but if you talk to him you see he knows about it and the correct way of doing it. In fact, he knows too much about gong fu for me to believe he doesn't know it, but of course that's just my personal feeling. But that's part of why he remains an enigma to me, and why if I were fluent in Mandarin and a local dialect, plus had the money, I'd love to visit his home town to try to study the history of the style there, and see if there were any other lineages & people practicing the style there.

[fiercest tiger]

Faruq,

Sorry mate, you dont know what you are talking about!

Greencloud,

Post the clips of your sifu doing bak mei, please?

For the record, GMDW also knows Bak Mei kung fu, he has always said that Bak Fu Pai shares the same principles and many of the southern systems such as, lung ying, SPM, Hakka,lee gar etc. He knows knowledge on many systems such as Chan Tai Shan, does that make him a fraud too? He learnt Bak Mei off ???? then teaches it out and says Man Kwong Fong is not original or something. Lets not go on with this **** again i think many many and all of us have flaws in our kung fu YES thats right even you reading this. Show me any clip on anyone and ill tear it to peices just like what you doing to this poor old man. If he B.S'd to the americans then that is not good but it could have been he was screwed by you guys in the first place cause his american students tried to screw him and his family art you ever think about that? :D

Who friggin cares, he knows more then you all and i guarentee that! :rolleyes:

FT :cool:

[Faruq]

Yeah, well you know gong fu better than me Fiercest Tiger, so if I'm wrong I'm wrong. You're a sifu, you recognize proper technique, and I'm just a fan, so my bad (though I did say it was just my opinion).

[fiercest tiger]

I didnt mean it like that check your email!

:D

[Green Cloud]

Faruq,

Sorry mate, you dont know what you are talking about!

Greencloud,

Post the clips of your sifu doing bak mei, please?

For the record, GMDW also knows Bak Mei kung fu, he has always said that Bak Fu Pai shares the same principles and many of the southern systems such as, lung ying, SPM, Hakka,lee gar etc. He knows knowledge on many systems such as Chan Tai Shan, does that make him a fraud too? He learnt Bak Mei off ???? then teaches it out and says Man Kwong Fong is not original or something. Lets not go on with this **** again i think many many and all of us have flaws in our kung fu YES thats right even you reading this. Show me any clip on anyone and ill tear it to peices just like what you doing to this poor old man. If he B.S'd to the americans then that is not good but it could have been he was screwed by you guys in the first place cause his american students tried to screw him and his family art you ever think about that? :D

Who friggin cares, he knows more then you all and i guarentee that! :rolleyes:

FT :cool:

Here is the thing, every style has a signiture bow at the end he did a Bock mei bow not to mention the pheonix eye that he uses threw out the form.

The other reason I don't think it's Bok fu pai based on what my sifu said about that style. According to chan tai san Bok fu pai is bad luck when learning the style you risk loosing a loved one.

I know it's folk law but you know how the Chinese are, so traditionaly this is not a style that would be taught openly.

further more why are you pittying this guy and calling him a poor old man, is he poor??? And how old is he????

And why does this guy know more than us??? because he's Chinese or because he's old???

See that's what I'm talking about, your train of thought is ilogical I'm supposed to believe that this guy is super skilled based on what that he's an old chinese man.

From what I saw I wasn't impressed based on what I know that's my opinion, no need to get snippy.

Until another authority that I know gets on here and tells me other wise your opinion is subjective based on the fact that you like things that are Tiger and people that are old and Chinese.

As far as posting clips of Chan tai san that would be redundent he's famous and everyone seen his bok mei.

[Faruq]

I haven't seen his Bak Mei, but would consider it an honor to see the Bak Mei of such a legend. So if you have clips of it, please DO post them, and it won't be redundant!

[mung foo]

Green Cloud-


further more why are you pittying this guy and calling him a poor old man, is he poor??? And how old is he????


Green Cloud- it may have to do with the fact that Fiercest Tiger is Doo Wai's video correspondence student and his official rep. down under.

[Green Cloud]

Green Cloud-



Green Cloud- it may have to do with the fact that Fiercest Tiger is Doo Wai's video correspondence student and his official rep. down under.

It all makes sense know, Hmm Fiercest Tiger learns kung fu from Video tape and that qualifies him to be his official rep.

Well let me add some more to my beware list,,, beware of guys wearing silky robes, teach mystical none existant styles and call them family styles, guys that wave their hand up in the air like they don't care, and oh yea guys that rank people through video tape.

Not to mention Kangaroo killers that think it's apropriate to hang up skins in a kung fu school instead of prominently displaying their ancestrial alter.

Did any one get to see his Gim (stait sword) demo that takes the cake.

[Green Cloud]

I haven't seen his Bak Mei, but would consider it an honor to see the Bak Mei of such a legend. So if you have clips of it, please DO post them, and it won't be redundant!

Just go to master parellas web site and you can see some pics of CTS the stuff I have hasn't been converted into digital yet. I'm sure XIA can fing the link he's good at that stuff.

[Juan Nowon]

LOL,

When will people stop talking crap on the ****ing internet?

Now, if your own teacher moved that much better...well CONGRATULATIONS TO YOU!

Now, have those of you who talk down GM Doo Wai met him in person? Have you spoken to him even?

Are you planning on doing so to get real life verification of you opinions?

If not, then guess how much your statements are really worth???

You don't like what you see, then don't look. Simple.

Anyhow, I definately agree with fiercest tiger, the public demos don't do his real skill justice.

/ HG

Greetings HupGerk,

Maybee you can help me out here.

I was trying to find the location Master Doo Wai's school. The white tiger web site that I viewed gives no indication as to were his school is or that he has a school at all.

If anyone knows the school please hit up a reply.

[The Xia]

I'm sure XIA can fing the link he's good at that stuff.
http://www.nykungfu.com/school/GrandmasterChanTai-San.asp
Scroll down to find the videos and pictures.

[Green Cloud]

http://www.nykungfu.com/school/GrandmasterChanTai-San.asp
Scroll down to find the videos and pictures.

Thanks Xia youre just like a magician or should I say a jeanie Pooof and there it is ausome and that took you like what 2 seconds to post that clip.

Fiercest Tiger he is in his 70's in those pics, notice no silky robe and he is performing in front of a crowd not a porno studio. how dare you even try to compare this novice to my Sifu.

[Green Cloud]

I wish I was chinese and called master Doo Doo wai so I can sell a bunch of lofan Gwai lo some doo doo.

[The Xia]

Chan Tai San has a quality that people often fail to notice, or evaluate when describing a form. It is crucial to good Gong Fu. It's called "Jing". I guess you can translate it as "intent", as I often do. Someone who knows what's what about Kung Fu can appreciate the "Jing" in Chan Tai San's performances. For a good example, watch the "Lama Style Basics" video. You'd be hard pressed to find a young person that moves like that.

[Green Cloud]

Xia I have to opologize for being so frank, it's just so frustrating dealing with people who can't differentiate between good kung fu and bad kung fu. Jeesh it was easier dealing with the guys on the SD thread.

[jigahus]

Greetings HupGerk,

Maybee you can help me out here.

I was trying to find the location Master Doo Wai's school. The white tiger web site that I viewed gives no indication as to were his school is or that he has a school at all.

If anyone knows the school please hit up a reply.

His website showed he is in West Los Angeles before it changed to a video market web shop.

[cjurakpt]

Did any one get to see his Gim (stait sword) demo that takes the cake.

OMG - that was the most horrible piece of c-r-a-p that I have ever seen...but it looked like someone different - and what was with the hat? I think my college advisor wore that for our class' graduation...

[B-Rad]

Cool clips. His iron body video kicked my computer's @ss... my sbc browser is still cripled, and I'm afraid it may never be the same :( That's some powerful chi, lol. Seriously, I thought my comp. was fried for a second :p

edit: changed "friend" to "fried" :p

[Green Cloud]

Um ok:confused:

[Green Cloud]

OMG - that was the most horrible piece of c-r-a-p that I have ever seen...but it looked like someone different - and what was with the hat? I think my college advisor wore that for our class' graduation...

Can some one post that clip?? It's too funny wait let me get my popcorn.

[mung foo]

Be careful guys! back in the days of the Southernkungfu Forum, Doo Wai, the man himself, actually logged on and threatened to sue everyone who mentioned anything negative about him, his "family style", the smoke coming from his hands, or the vibrating tables.....

[Faruq]

But no clips of CTS doing empty hand Bak Mei forms? That'd be something I'd like to see.

Anyway, here's something I found on the net by Googling:

BIOGRAPHY:
GRANDMASTER DOO WAI

One of, if not the most well kept secrets in the entire world regarding the best lineage of kung fu is Doo Wai. It is well documented that the famous "Five Elders" are considered the source of all modern Shaolin.

Grandmaster Doo Wai is the 6th generation family inherited Jung Shee of Five Elder Monk Fung Doe Duk's Bak Fu Pai or White Tiger Kung Fu System of Southern China. The system was passed down to him from father to son. His father was the famous Doo Kow, teacher at China's famous Wampoa Military Academy.

Inside Kung Fu Magazine published a cover story on Grandmaster Doo Wai in 1975. In 1986 he graced the cover of Karate/Kung Fu Illustrated. In 1990 he penned a cover feature for Ancient Sets of Kung Fu.

Here is a breif quote from the 1990 cover he authored. According to the magazine:

"The Five Elders in the history of Chinese Kung Fu, refers to the famous five that escaped the burning of the Shaolin Temple at Fukien in the 1600's. There were four monks and a nun, which were considered the top fighting generals at the temple. Bak Mae (White Eyebrow), Nun, Ng Moi (Plum Flower Fist), Jee Shin Shim Shee (Long Fist), Mew Hing (18 Daoist Palms), the chief fighting monk and an expert in Bok Fu Pai (White Tiger) Fung Doe Duk, which is the focus of this article."

In another passage Wai gives the lineage rarely spoken of in other articles:

"Bok Fu Pai (White Tiger) Kung Fu, has been conserved in a most traditional way, it was handed down from father to son until now. From Fung Doe Duk, the secret of White Tiger Kung Fu was passed to Kwong Wai Jung, then to Jok Wan Jung, then to Yee Too Jung then to Wou Shan Jie, a monk whom in exchange for food and lodging taught the White Tiger System to Doo Kow, whom in turn passed it down to his son the present head of the system, Grandmaster Doo Wai.
In 1968 Grandmaster Doo Wai came to the United States, settling on the West Coast where he still resides and teaches but a few privately."

In 1973 Grandmaster Doo Wai stayed with Brian Adams and trained Grandmasters Brian Adams, Parker Linekin and David German in the use of the traditional 18 long and 18 short Shaolin Weapons.

Return to Biographies





Just go to master parellas web site and you can see some pics of CTS the stuff I have hasn't been converted into digital yet. I'm sure XIA can fing the link he's good at that stuff.

[Dim Wit Mak]

Be careful guys! back in the days of the Southernkungfu Forum, Doo Wai, the man himself, actually logged on and threatened to sue everyone who mentioned anything negative about him, his "family style", the smoke coming from his hands, or the vibrating tables.....

I don't want anyone to think I don't have a grip on reality or anything, but I watch those Kung Fu movies. Instead of suing, isn't Doo Wai supposed to meet his critics and opponents in a field somewhere, issue threats in a cheesy voice, and then then do all sorts of acrobatic stuff as the chi balls fly?:D

[Green Cloud]

But no clips of CTS doing empty hand Bak Mei forms? That'd be something I'd like to see.

If you look at the clip where he breaks a brick on his head he does some in the begining.

[Green Cloud]

Be careful guys! back in the days of the Southernkungfu Forum, Doo Wai, the man himself, actually logged on and threatened to sue everyone who mentioned anything negative about him, his "family style", the smoke coming from his hands, or the vibrating tables.....

You mean even back in the day people didn't like his stuff:eek:

When you put your product out there on the internet that is, you face publick scrutiny just like TV personalities.

No one has made any personal attacks on him or his family, just his product (video tapes). It's no different than buying a car, you can look at consumer reports and get the ratings good or bad so you can make an informed descision.

One can never be to careful now a days, there are way to many charlatons out there peddeling their crap and selling it to poor unsuspecting people.

It's funny when someone gets rooked everyone says Buyer Beware but if we as consumers say hay that product(kung fu) sucks than we face getting sued.

I garantee that my lawers Kung fu is better than his Kung Fu.

[Faruq]

Before he broke the brick, I did see him take a stance and start to do something, but then it cut to where he was doing the head break. How do you know that was Bak Mei Pai? The clip wasn't really long enough to see what style it was, and he didn't do any Bak Mei salute. I'd have assumed it was a Lama Pai form he was starting. No clips of him doing any Bak Mei Pai empty hand forms?


If you look at the clip where he breaks a brick on his head he does some in the begining.

[Firehawk4]

What is the link for Southern Kung Fu Net Forums the place that replaced Southern Fist online Forums ? I lost the link and cant find it .

[Yum Cha]

http://southernkungfu.forumco.com/

[The Xia]

The other reason I don't think it's Bok fu pai based on what my sifu said about that style. According to chan tai san Bok fu pai is bad luck when learning the style you risk loosing a loved one.
Did Chan Tai San do Bak Fu Pai before or after his first wife died in childbirth?

[Green Cloud]

Did Chan Tai San do Bak Fu Pai before or after his first wife died in childbirth?

I have to honest I'm not sure but that was a real sad but romantic story. She was his true love and at teh time as goo as CTS at Kung Fu. They would spar and she would say if you can beat me we will intertwine our glasses and drink wine together. After she died he was so heart broken he left the monestary and went to fight the Japanese or should I say killed the Japanese.

I remember when he was telling the story he was in tears, that was the first time I had seen my sifu cry:(

[Green Cloud]

Did Chan Tai San do Bak Fu Pai before or after his first wife died in childbirth?

I have to honest I'm not sure but that was a real sad but romantic story. She was his true love and at the time as good as CTS at Kung Fu. They would spar and she would say if you can beat me we will intertwine our glasses and drink wine together.

After she died he was so heart broken he left the monestary and went to fight the Japanese or should I say killed the Japanese or at least who ever crossed his path.

I remember when he was telling the story he was in tears, that was the first time I saw my sifu cry:(

[The Xia]

This version of the story is a bit different from the one he told you.
http://www.nykungfu.com/school/documents/IK****icle.pdf

[The Xia]

Friggin language filter classifies "f@rt" as a profanity.
If anyone is interested in reading the article, go to the center of the page and click on the image of the magazine.
http://www.nykungfu.com/school/GrandmasterChanTai-San.asp

[Green Cloud]

I had trouble opening the pdf file ,so what did he say??? Did he tell the story in Insise Kung Fu. I don't remember that.

[fiercest tiger]

Thanks Mung Foo,

I am GMDW'S friend and i could rep for him that is true, im certified in certain training of BFP.

you going to put up a bak mei clip, JIK BO would be good its your beginners form right?

Greencloud

What is sad about this all!!

You guys judging some guy over a clip and never met him personally to talk to him to hear his story and what he has trained as well just him as a person? Its like people talking about your teacher i never met him i cant say **** about him, u know what i mean?

Garry

[mantiskilla]

Garry

Have you learned 'internal' from DW? I know you are more into the Chi cultivation these days. I have seen, with my own eyes, my Sifu do some strange things that i could not explain, but if I didnt know the guy and had other people tell me these things i would think they were full of sh!t.

Bill

[Faruq]

Not to say anything for or against Doo Wai, but I've never seen any other 60 yr olds go all out and break a sweat doing a form. They only show a technique or two at a time, or go through it slow if it's a whole form. Anyone know of any clips of old masters doing whole forms real fast?

Even in one of my favorite gong fu demo tapes, the ESPY-TV Kwong Man Fong one, they only show him doing sup jee fast for like 5 seconds and then cut to something else, so I wouldn't know if even he would be breathing heavily after he finished. They did show him do the whole form later slowly like Tai Chi, which was beautiful. And I will say I WAS in awe of the 5 seconds or so he did of the form fast at the opening.

Also, watching him do the different strikes from the form separately later on in the tape in slow-motion was a thing of beauty (I slow-mo'ed it when I watched it, because it definately wasn't in slow-mo on the tape!). One of his students does, however, do the whole of Sup Jee at a speed similar to that of what Doo Wai was moving at, and is breathing heavily at the end in spite of him apparently being only 20 something-and the guy looked in phenomenal shape! So I think (though I don't profess to be any expert) that any time anyone goes all out to perform an entire form at lightning speed, their body's going to be taking in, burning and spitting out a lot of Oxygen.

But most sifus I've seen don't stress that kind of speed in their forms when they teach. I just wish I knew all my points and meridians so I could know how the techniques in Doo's forms looked as far as aiming to produce different effects in the body.

Maybe I'm wrong, I dunno.


What suprised me was the guys heavy breath after doing the form, if he is supossed to be really good, then he shouldent feel tierd after doing one form.

[Green Cloud]

Thanks Mung Foo,

I am GMDW'S friend and i could rep for him that is true, im certified in certain training of BFP.

you going to put up a bak mei clip, JIK BO would be good its your beginners form right?

Greencloud

What is sad about this all!!

You guys judging some guy over a clip and never met him personally to talk to him to hear his story and what he has trained as well just him as a person? Its like people talking about your teacher i never met him i cant say **** about him, u know what i mean?

Garry

When youre right youre right I appologize I wouldn't like it if someone was talking about my sifu.

I got peved when you compared him to my Sifu and I am very wary about the hocus pocus and all that mystical sh!t.

I get a lot of flack from MMArtist because of all the mystical stuff. Anyway I was just diging for the truth.

[mok]

Not to say anything for or against Doo Wai, but I've never seen any other 60 yr olds go all out and break a sweat doing a form. They only show a technique or two at a time, or go through it slow if it's a whole form. Anyone know of any clips of old masters doing whole forms real fast?

IMHO: Unless you've had some serious illness or slacked-off on personal training, 60 is not so old for a kung-fu practitionner of sifu level to retain alot of speed and power.

Try here for a couple examples from hung kuen:
http://www.siulam.info/

1st vid: 85 year-old Chan Hon Jung beating the crap out of a wooden dummy

6th vid: 70 year-old Chiu Wei doing a demo of Sap-Yin Kuen. You can see how buff the guy is ...Now he's 75 and still looks like that.

I also saw a vid once from china of a 100 yrd-old guy doing bagua broadsword (and those things are larger and heavier than your typical dao)... Not sure where it is now, but that exceptional individual was impressive to say the least.


Regards,

mok

[fiercest tiger]

Faruq,

Nice post dude, well said!

Greencloud,

How you doing buddy, we both know how this internet forum this is its easy to take things way out of proportion and easy to lose our kool over words. Thats why i really hate the forums but you know its the only thing that i can think off after a hard day work other then sex! lol

Take care
Garry

[Faruq]

I didn't see any clips on that link, bro. Are you sure that's the right one? I did see the advertisements for the Shaolin Roundtable forum and the grandmasters DVD though. Are they pretty good?


IMHO: Unless you've had some serious illness or slacked-off on personal training, 60 is not so old for a kung-fu practitionner of sifu level to retain alot of speed and power.

Try here for a couple examples from hung kuen:
http://www.siulam.info/

1st vid: 85 year-old Chan Hon Jung beating the crap out of a wooden dummy

6th vid: 70 year-old Chiu Wei doing a demo of Sap-Yin Kuen. You can see how buff the guy is ...Now he's 75 and still looks like that.

I also saw a vid once from china of a 100 yrd-old guy doing bagua broadsword (and those things are larger and heavier than your typical dao)... Not sure where it is now, but that exceptional individual was impressive to say the least.


Regards,

mok

[mok]

I didn't see any clips on that link, bro. Are you sure that's the right one? I did see the advertisements for the Shaolin Roundtable forum and the grandmasters DVD though. Are they pretty good?

right - click on "video" off the left-side menu,
or try this: http://www.siulam.info/video.htm

[Faruq]

Yeah, that's a page full of links. Let me try a few.

Okay, I saw the clips. I wasn't convinced because the guy wasn't putting half the effort Doo Wai was into his blows, though he was moving kind of fast for an 80 year old on the wooden dummy. But on the open hand form, like I said I had always seen the masters do, he did it slow. To be honest though, on all the other clips of Doo Wai on the youtube, I didn't hear him breathing heavily. If the performer doesn't speak right after doing the form, I don't think you could tell one way or the other on some of them. He might've recorded a few of them at a time and been out of breath for that reason.

But as far as the Hung Gar Grandmaster, though I know he's got to be a well respected and knowledgeable teacher, it doesn't show me anything in regards to the Doo Wai clip. I can't see anything good or bad from Doo Wai's clip. I still wish I knew my points and meridians to know what points Doo was aiming for, and more than that, I'd like to have seen him fight when he was young to know how effective his stuff was. 'Cause at over 60, if he won any opponent would say "I didn't want to hurt him", and if he lost it'd be like "I told you the guy's stuff wouldn't work". I wonder if there are any stories of his family's martial exploits back in his home town, like there are of CLC, Chan Tai San and all the other well-known masters?

[Juan Nowon]

Not to say anything for or against Doo Wai, but I've never seen any other 60 yr olds go all out and break a sweat doing a form. They only show a technique or two at a time, or go through it slow if it's a whole form. Anyone know of any clips of old masters doing whole forms real fast?

Even in one of my favorite gong fu demo tapes, the ESPY-TV Kwong Man Fong one, they only show him doing sup jee fast for like 5 seconds and then cut to something else, so I wouldn't know if even he would be breathing heavily after he finished. They did show him do the whole form later slowly like Tai Chi, which was beautiful. And I will say I WAS in awe of the 5 seconds or so he did of the form fast at the opening.

Also, watching him do the different strikes from the form separately later on in the tape in slow-motion was a thing of beauty (I slow-mo'ed it when I watched it, because it definately wasn't in slow-mo on the tape!). One of his students does, however, do the whole of Sup Jee at a speed similar to that of what Doo Wai was moving at, and is breathing heavily at the end in spite of him apparently being only 20 something-and the guy looked in phenomenal shape! So I think (though I don't profess to be any expert) that any time anyone goes all out to perform an entire form at lightning speed, their body's going to be taking in, burning and spitting out a lot of Oxygen.

But most sifus I've seen don't stress that kind of speed in their forms when they teach. I just wish I knew all my points and meridians so I could know how the techniques in Doo's forms looked as far as aiming to produce different effects in the body.

Maybe I'm wrong, I dunno.

Faruq-

Check out this link, this old guy can move. Power and speed. This particular sifu displays good

use of the entire body in generating the power.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEL_GpG15dg

[fiercest tiger]

MantisKiller,

Hello, i wont say what im ive learnt but i can say its internal yes!

Thanks
Garry

[Faruq]

Yeah, he's slower with less blows and less variety of blows, but still great power and speed for his age and use of the body. He's a bad old dude!


Faruq-

Check out this link, this old guy can move. Power and speed. This particular sifu displays good

use of the entire body in generating the power.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEL_GpG15dg

Too bad the clip of Doo Wai can't be slow mo'ed to count how many blows he throws, where they're aimed and how his rooting changes as he moves in slow motion. Though I couldn't see the hunching and straightening of the back the first time, now that I've seen the clip like 5 or 6 times I do see it, and I wonder what else I'd see if it were played in slow-motion.

[mung foo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEL_GpG15dg

He sure does look good for an older guy. But that is Dragon style not Bokmei.

[Green Cloud]

Dragon style and Bok mei are the same thing anyway that guy was goo friends with my sifu CTS and he4 said that guy is the real deal.

[The Xia]

What did Chan Tai San say about Bak Fu Pai?

[fiercest tiger]

Lungying is not bak mei, they do share some movements but the power is completely different!

[mung foo]

fiercest tiger -

Lungying is not bak mei, they do share some movements but the power is completely different!

Absolutely right!, fiercest tiger - Dragon and White Eyebrow are not the same.

[Green Cloud]

What did Chan Tai San say about Bak Fu Pai?

I learned one form from him and it looked nothing like what that other guy was doing

[Green Cloud]

fiercest tiger -


Absolutely right!, fiercest tiger - Dragon and White Eyebrow are not the same.

Nope they are basicaly the same style except for some miniscule diference, like for instance Lama Pai, Bock hok, and Happ Ga are one in the same.

[Juan Nowon]

He sure does look good for an older guy. But that is Dragon style not Bokmei.

Yeah, the wording at the begining of the youtube clip is an error.

Anybody who is familiar with Lung Ying will undoubtedly know that this clip is Dragon Style Kung Fu, not Bak Mei.

Nice Kung Fu either way.

[Juan Nowon]

Dragon style and Bok mei are the same thing anyway that guy was goo friends with my sifu CTS and he4 said that guy is the real deal.

Green Cloud,

You are refering to Sifu Lee in the Lung Ying clip, are you not?

You are saying that your Sifu is/was good friends with him, right?

I just want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly here.

Thanks.

[Green Cloud]

Yeah, the wording at the begining of the youtube clip is an error.

Anybody who is familiar with Lung Ying will undoubtedly know that this clip is Dragon Style Kung Fu, not Bak Mei.

Nice Kung Fu either way.

The only difference between Bok mei and Dragon style is the breathing in Bok mei it uses a reverse breathing method.

Dragon style seems to use a bit more clawing. Please eloborate

[Green Cloud]

Green Cloud,

You are refering to Sifu Lee in the Lung Ying clip, are you not?

You are saying that your Sifu is/was good friends with him, right?

I just want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly here.

Thanks.

Yes that's who I'm refering to, If you guys watch closely You will see my Sifu walking past the stage.

I was present at that Masters demo in NY China Town, I also did a monkey form and would love to get that clip.

[Juan Nowon]

Yes that's who I'm refering to, If you guys watch closely You will see my Sifu walking past the stage.

I was present at that Masters demo in NY China Town, I also did a monkey form and would love to get that clip.

So Sifu Lee of Yip's Kung Fu club is out of New York?

Do you know if he is with Yip Wing Hong's Lung Ying school?

I've tried to do searches for Yips Kung Fu club, I know I've seen the name other than the video clip, but I've been unable to find any results. Any info about this would be appreciated.

Thanks.

[Green Cloud]

So Sifu Lee of Yip's Kung Fu club is out of New York?

Do you know if he is with Yip Wing Hong's Lung Ying school?

I've tried to do searches for Yips Kung Fu club, I know I've seen the name other than the video clip, but I've been unable to find any results. Any info about this would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Unfortunately those clips were taken over 15 years ago and Just like my Sifu I would think that they all passed away:(

[Juan Nowon]

Unfortunately those clips were taken over 15 years ago and Just like my Sifu I would think that they all passed away:(

****! Thats to **** bad. I guess its a part of life that we'll all have to face sooner or later.

Thanks anyway green.

[meltdawn]

greencloud,
your opinion that dragon and pak mei are the same is indeed... interesting. i think dragon and white eyebrow are as close as peas and carrots, they're both vegetables.

juan,
Ho Lei is a Kung Ying sifu in NYC, still kickin' it. he shows up at Yip Sifu's class once in a while. he is a student of Lam Yiu Kwai.

[Faruq]

Melty, you're like a ninja lurking in the shadows, who jumps out and steals the show when least expected!

[mung foo]

meltdawn-

your opinion that dragon and pak mei are the same is indeed... interesting. i think dragon and white eyebrow are as close as peas and carrots, they're both vegetables

Both vegatables, one is a pea and the other is a carrot. Nice analogy! true too.

[The Xia]

i think dragon and white eyebrow are as close as peas and carrots, they're both vegetables.
I have heard this as well. That's a good analogy. I have heard that the two styles compliment each other well. Bak Mei gives speed while Lung Ying gives power. Would you say this is accurate?

[fiercest tiger]

Xai,

Not true! :)

[The Xia]

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=131


Speed and power. According to Luo, Bak Mei increases your speed and agility, while Dragon Style develops your power. It is a lethal harmony, fusing together for a devastating fighting style. "My body is considered big for a Chinese. My father was considered big for a Chinese guy when he was younger. A lot of people look at our bodies, they don't expect we can move quickly. That's why my dad is always telling me you've got to get quick before you get heavy. The Bak Mei style can make you a lot faster than you expect. We break the rules. Most people say you're big and kind of slow. That's not true. Our particular style really makes you quick."

"Whoever is very weak can train the Dragon. Long Ying has a lot of attitude. It's the King of the kungfu styles, a very aggressive style, over 300 years old. It really increases your punching power. The punching is from the ground up - from the foot, to the toe, to the fingertip. Everything concentrates together - hips, shoulder, back, legs and thighs - everything. Throw it out in one shot."

[meltdawn]

there are many sifus who teach pak mei and lung ying together, emphasizing the unique characteristics of each while teaching them in conjunction. this comes from the fact that two famous grandmasters trained, fought, and taught together. people who studied in these particular schools tend to carry on the lineage of both arts.

each style stands on its own as a complete, powerful and fast method. there is no need to add anything into one or the other, in my opinion.

[mung foo]

there are many sifus who teach pak mei and lung ying together, emphasizing the unique characteristics of each while teaching them in conjunction. this comes from the fact that two famous grandmasters trained, fought, and taught together. people who studied in these particular schools tend to carry on the lineage of both arts.

each style stands on its own as a complete, powerful and fast method. there is no need to add anything into one or the other, in my opinion.
Good point meltdawn!

To suggest that white eyebrow has speed but no power and needs lung ying to compliment it, and lung ying has power and no speed and needs bak mei- is a bit misdirected.

Strictly speaking from a standpoint of Newtonian physics, speed is one factor in power. You cannot have power w/o speed. Nor can you hurt, cause damage to the body,ie punch, kick,...w/o some speed to your movements (think kinetic energy).

One cannot exists w/o the other, like the Tao - Yin and Yang inseperable

[B-Rad]

I'm a little confused... do they share the same forms? Did they come from the same source then branch into their own respective flavors, or did they start off relatively seperate and just have some contact with each other latter on?

[fiercest tiger]

Nice mung foo, i think that speed is a huge factor in generating force, muscle is secondary but also important.

B-Rad,

The Grandmaster of Bak Mei (CLC) was a disciple of Lungying as well other arts before learning from the Monk Chuk Fat Wun the Bak Mei system. Its was said that CLC and LYG was blood relations as well training brothers so the Lungying may have creeped into the way CLC plays Bak Mei. Its also said that G/Master CLC recreated his Bak Mei adding flavours of his previous arts Lee Gar, Gypsy, LungYing etc.

Some of the old china bak mei especially Guangzhou use the waist more and the circles more so compared to when CLC moved to hongkong. Its has developed and changed a few times over the last 90yrs or so. Maybe some like to use the yuil ma more then others some might not understand the principles but that is another question and thread to consider. The thing is Bak Mei is a very powerful art and so is Lungying Pai.

Garry

[Faruq]

Wow! Look how many views for this thread! This is really a hot topic!

[mok]

Fiercest_tiger:

Just saw that YKM clip of yours on the other thread - thanks for putting it up, that was solid.

I also wanted to say that seeing your own skills has had the effect of making rethink my stance on Doo Wai/Bak Fu Pai. If you vouch for this guy, that's good enough for me.


Peace,

mok

[fiercest tiger]

Mok,

All i can say is that what you see of BFP these days is not the true art, one day ill do a demo of it and put it up! Hopefully you will be just as impressed with the way the form moves and shows its force.

be well
Garry

[Faruq]

Can't wait!!!

[B-Rad]

I also wanted to say that seeing your own skills has had the effect of making rethink my stance on Doo Wai/Bak Fu Pai. If you vouch for this guy, that's good enough for me.
I'd have to agree, though I don't know if I'd ever get past the qi demos :p I'm just a skeptic like that, I guess...

[fiercest tiger]

Yeah i guess, Chi demos always come off seecond best and people are quick to disprove it, Ah well!!!

What matters is does his style work and does it make you happy, healthy, etc.

Garry

[stainlesschi]

have you appeared in any kungfu magazines?
are you the fiercest tiger who grandmaster lacey or master lacey(cant remember if it the father or son,sorry)mentioned nearly having a gong sau fight with?
im not after name calling or judging im just curious
peace out

[Faruq]

Grandmaster Lacey? LOL. That guy has kids?

[fiercest tiger]

Stainlesschi, say what???

I dont know what that means, but anyway i have been in some magazines ive done iron palm and p/eye articles!

Garry

[stainlesschi]

one of the laceys from their choy lay fut school said they nearly had a no holds barred match with a kung fu guy called fiercest tiger a few years ago was juss wondering if it was u....that choy lay fut seems very similar to a style i did a while back b4 i got back into wing chun

[Faruq]

I thought you were talking about the "Grandmaster Lacey" of ironpalm.com.

[fiercest tiger]

No, that wasnt me mate!

[Faruq]

I just saw this. Finally, someone who's actually heard of Bak Fu Pai! Who did Chan Tai San learn Bak Fu Pai from, Greencloud? Also, what province or city was the teacher located in? Did he mention any famous practitioners of the art anywhere in the lineage?

By the way, I've seen the Phoenix fist in various Hakka arts, and Chen Tai Chi, and had always thought it was a staple of internal arts. And the salute Doo Wai uses looks more like a phoenix fist and tiger claw than the phoenix fist and willow leaf palm of Bak Mei Pai. Just my observations for what they're worth.


Here is the thing, every style has a signiture bow at the end he did a Bock mei bow not to mention the pheonix eye that he uses threw out the form.

The other reason I don't think it's Bok fu pai based on what my sifu said about that style. According to chan tai san Bok fu pai is bad luck when learning the style you risk loosing a loved one.

I know it's folk law but you know how the Chinese are, so traditionaly this is not a style that would be taught openly.

further more why are you pittying this guy and calling him a poor old man, is he poor??? And how old is he????

[fiercest tiger]

They do share a very similar salute like you mentioned Faruq, the forms though of BFP use more circular movement and angles . Bak Mei is direct!

[Lama Pai Sifu]

CTS did NOT teach Bok Fu Pai. He once talked about some superstition surrounding a CLF form called White Tiger Fist, not White Tiger Style. The above mentioned comment is NOT what my teacher said, as I was there when he said it.

He never mentioned a style of that name or Doo Wai.

Astounding! Another incorrect CTS factoid.

[lkfmdc]

CTS did NOT teach Bok Fu Pai. He once talked about some superstition surrounding a CLF form called White Tiger Fist, not White Tiger Style. The above mentioned comment is NOT what my teacher said, as I was there when he said it.

He never mentioned a style of that name or Doo Wai.

Astounding! Another incorrect CTS factoid.

I am saddened and disturbed to YET AGAIN see a certain person (NOT Lama Pai Sifu) attribute untrue and ignorant things to my teacher....

As Lama Pai Sifu just said, CTS did not do any Bok Fu Pai, never made any comments about it or Doo Wai... nor did he make a variety of other ignorant comments that have been attributed to him!

[Lama Pai Sifu]

This Bok Fu Pai, as performed by Doo Wai - looks like a sloppy attempt at Bok Mei. There are some real techniques performed, albeit at funny angles and without any real power. It looks, for the most part, like he's learned some stuff, but is just flailing his arms around. I know he's not young in the clips, but I'm not talking about an 'age' thing, he just doesn't seem to have the skills.

It seem that there were lots of teachers/schools that tried to make a name for themselves in the 70's/80's, when TCMA wasn't as 'worldwide' and 'accessable' as it is today. People are less apt to 'fall' for every Chinese guy who calls himself a 'master' today.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of these 'Masters' still around. They might be down the block from you or on the cover of the lastest martial arts magazine. Since they have been teaching for the last 35 years, everyone revears them and gives them respect. Meanwhile, they studied in China for a few years as teenager, then they came to America with no other trade/skill, so they decide to teach. Years later, they are well-respected.

In my opinion, this is what you have here. Either that, or the quality of TCMA has improved so much, that whereas this guy was once considered 'good', is now,....not.

[Faruq]

It does look like sloppy flailing the first time you see it, but when you slow it down you see the finger jabs, phoenix fists, soy kiu's, claws and everything else. I'd have to feel his power first to make a definative statement, but I know fiercest tiger to be a quality martial artist, and his endorsement of Wai has made me review the clips several times, slow them down and dissect them. And I'm gonna give him the benefit of the doubt at this point. Plus, I think that'd be the speed you'd have to whip your fists out there and back against a skilled player to prevent soy kiu's, arm breaks and the like being performed on you.

I just wish I could read & write Chinese so I could scan the net for mentions of Bak Fu Pai on Chinese websites such as Google.cn.

[fiercest tiger]

Lama Sifu,

Depending on what you consider power and you are not a bak mei practitioner even if your Sifu tried to teach you something like bak mei from the clips of your teacher. Im not saying his performance wasnt pore but like i have said i know him personally and seen his BFP not what you are seeing now. Those clips dont show his credibiLity IMHO!

I heard that CTS made up alot of his forms anyway is this true?

Garry

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Lama Sifu,

Depending on what you consider power and you are not a bak mei practitioner even if your Sifu tried to teach you something like bak mei from the clips of your teacher. Im not saying his performance wasnt pore but like i have said i know him personally and seen his BFP not what you are seeing now. Those clips dont show his credibiLity IMHO!

I heard that CTS made up alot of his forms anyway is this true?

Garry

Garry, I'm not sure what you are saying in your first sentence, it's not clear to me.

Are you saying that I am NOT a Bok Mei practitioner?

I understand you, if you say that those video clips are not a good representation of what he is capable of. Your actually the only person in the last 20 years or so, that I have ever heard praise him.

I have seen some of his students, and what they do or claim to do is questionable at best.

And you heard that CTS made up a lot of his forms? LOL, you sound like you're trying to stir up some trouble Garry....

The truth is, my Sifu did re-choreographed many of his forms. Some forms were kept the same as when they were taught to him, some he changed. Sometimes he changed them for demonstration purposes, sometimes because he thought the form needed or missed something. Our Bok Mei forms are a bit older versions than what is taught by CLC people today, but essentially the same stuff.

:)

[lkfmdc]

It's a well known fact, if my form isn't exactly like your form, then my form must be fake and I must be a fraud :rolleyes:

(/sarcasm)

My thoughs, on BFP, was that the tape I saw was "cheesey" like it was filmed in someone's living room and they were wearing souvenier (sp?) stand fake Chinese clothing, maybe it's the wrong tape I am thinking about

[Faruq]

You might check out the clip on the first post of this whole thread.


It's a well known fact, if my form isn't exactly like your form, then my form must be fake and I must be a fraud :rolleyes:

(/sarcasm)

My thoughs, on BFP, was that the tape I saw was "cheesey" like it was filmed in someone's living room and they were wearing souvenier (sp?) stand fake Chinese clothing, maybe it's the wrong tape I am thinking about

[Faruq]

I found an article on the net that said his father Doo Kow taught the art at Wampoa at the same time CLC was there. Now I can't find the webpage anymore ("of course", yeah, I know), but that's why I'd like to be able to ask people that knew the family or Doo and his dad what they remembered. That and of course to be able to see the list of instructors at Wampoa while CLC was there.


This Bok Fu Pai, as performed by Doo Wai - looks like a sloppy attempt at Bok Mei. There are some real techniques performed, albeit at funny angles and without any real power. It looks, for the most part, like he's learned some stuff, but is just flailing his arms around. I know he's not young in the clips, but I'm not talking about an 'age' thing, he just doesn't seem to have the skills.

It seem that there were lots of teachers/schools that tried to make a name for themselves in the 70's/80's, when TCMA wasn't as 'worldwide' and 'accessable' as it is today. People are less apt to 'fall' for every Chinese guy who calls himself a 'master' today.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of these 'Masters' still around. They might be down the block from you or on the cover of the lastest martial arts magazine. Since they have been teaching for the last 35 years, everyone revears them and gives them respect. Meanwhile, they studied in China for a few years as teenager, then they came to America with no other trade/skill, so they decide to teach. Years later, they are well-respected.

In my opinion, this is what you have here. Either that, or the quality of TCMA has improved so much, that whereas this guy was once considered 'good', is now,....not.

[fiercest tiger]

Lama sifu,

No trouble starting here but only words exchanging, CTS made up stuff just like many other Sifu's of kung fu, this is a fact in martial arts. Also many i guarentee you have added to you school other things you have picked up and defined?

Can you put up a clip of your BAK MEI doing it with the bak mei ging?

How long did CTS study under CLC or his disciples? What gives him the authority to teach bak mei and claim he has bak mei kung fu. I am not bak mei but just some questions for you!


Ross,

Never said you form is wrong just that you are saying his is wrong??? Does his bak mei all come from CLC or somewhere else?

I agree very cheesy indeed, but he is a nice man and a friend to me, what can i say i can only tell you what i know about him!

Garry

[lkfmdc]

just that you are saying his is wrong



where did I say his form is wrong? my only comment was the cheese factor, which it looks like you agree with

CTS's Bak Mei was quite real...

[fiercest tiger]

Hi Ross :)

Yes i agree the cheesy, maybe he is getting too old!? ;)

Can you explain why CTS Bak Mei is real what makes his more REAL to modern CLC Bak Mei?

Thanks
FT

[lkfmdc]

Can you explain why CTS Bak Mei is real what makes his more REAL to modern CLC Bak Mei?



Oh, cut the crap, do you think I'm going to walk into a straw man argument? What did I say? Here it's really easy to QUOTE ME

Perhaps you failed logic in school?

If I own a house, does it mean you don't own a house? What does it have to do with the price of tea in CHina

I only posted on here because of LIES posted about my sifu, sadly by someone who claimed to be his student. OTher than that, I could really give a rodent's rear end

[fiercest tiger]

Quote what ROSS! You talking like you know about an art that you havent studied just learn a couple of forms!


enough said...

[lkfmdc]

Quote what ROSS! You talking like you know about an art that you havent studied just learn a couple of forms!


enough said...

boo hoo hoo, I guess you're taking your marbles home now :rolleyes:

man, you must really have an inferiority complex

I studied dragon and fukien lion in addition to the "couple of forms" CTS taught... and I've been in the Mo Lum for like 30 years.... but I guess only YOU hold the holy grail of truth :rolleyes:

do you and doo wai dress up and go out clubbing at night?.....

[fiercest tiger]

YOUR A TOOL ROSS! :rolleyes:

You dont have to give me your bio i dont give a sh!t what you have done or who you been with. You dont impress me at all with your knowledge or your skill!

Now take your sand bucket and p!ss off! lol

Hahahha
FT

[lkfmdc]

we can't all be you

http://www.yaukungmun.com.au/garry-on-gaurd.jpg

thank g'd :rolleyes:

funny, I guess Doo Wai taught you a magical way to judge skills you've never even seen :rolleyes:

for the record, CTS would have ripped your head off and taken a crap down your neck while doing shadow puppets with his free hand

But that's ok, because you've got the special ging

[fiercest tiger]

CTS wouldnt have done a thing, let your teacher be dead in piece you bringing his name into light and making him look like a fake and fool.

Dont get personal now ROSS, you are the wanna be kickboxer/san sau figher maybe Greencloud was right about you? ****!!!! hahahahaha

If you know bak mei you can explain this picture, OOPS you cant you learnt a 2 forms and claim you know it!! LMAO

Arent i cute, come on i know your gay ROSS come out the closet now!!! ;)

You make me laugh man, and you are just making a fool of yourself!

Sad sad sad, ROSS!

[fiercest tiger]

"My teacher, like a lot of Chinese teachers, felt that those who mattered always knew the real deal and those who didn't know the "real deal" never mattered. A sifu in the martial arts community (Mo Lum) knows exactly how a real Baai Si (adoption) ceremony takes place.

It was also common knowledge that my sifu had A, B, C, even D versions of everything he taught. Like I said previously, usually in 5 minutes he figured out whether you had potential or not. If you didn't, he never bothered to even try and show you the real stuff...

This is why, from time to time, you'll see some whining SOB claim that Chan Tai San didn't know anything. He'll inevitably claim he studied with him and learned crap. Of course, that doesn't mean Sifu Chan didn't know anything, it meant he never showed YOU anything of value. There is a difference....."


I WONDER WHO WROTE THIS???

LMAO

[fiercest tiger]

Maybe You Got The E And F Version?

:)

[lkfmdc]

Sorry, I can't resist

http://www.yaukungmun.com.au/garry-on-gaurd.jpg
doing your best version of "stop in the name of love"?

I had a hard choice between that one or the one of you pointing your way to the fish and chips stand, but I still think it's my favorite




CTS wouldnt have done a thing



No, actually, he would have done exactly what I said, and there wouldn't have been a thing you could have done about it :rolleyes:




If you know bak mei you can explain this picture,



"this picture"? which one? the one you didn't post or the one you didn't post :rolleyes:


Now, for the life of me I don't know why you wanted to start an argument, unless like I said you have a massive inferiority complex, but since you DID start an argument why don't I share what I actually do know about Doo Wai

He was sued in China by the Miao family for claiming to know Miu Hin/Miao Tian's kung fu methods. Not only did Doo lose the law suit, a lot of things came out in the case about how claims he made simply weren't true...

Now, if you hadn't been an arse and started an argument over nothing, that wouldnt have been mentioned would it?

I guess it bothers you so much that CTS was a great man, and that his students are still around.... but really, that's your problem, not ours

[lkfmdc]

I guess the public education system is as bad down there as it is up here.... in your little mind, do you think the passage you quoted says that CTS didn't know real CMA? If so, kindly show us where? We're all waiting.... :rolleyes:

I'm honestly sorry you are such an insecure and pathetic person that you can't help but try and tear down others, but I guess there are just people like you out there and there's nothing that can be done

[The Xia]

fiercest tiger posted this.

Hi Ross :)

Yes i agree the cheesy, maybe he is getting too old!? ;)

Can you explain why CTS Bak Mei is real what makes his more REAL to modern CLC Bak Mei?

Thanks
FT
Then lkfmdc responded.

Oh, cut the crap, do you think I'm going to walk into a straw man argument? What did I say? Here it's really easy to QUOTE ME

Perhaps you failed logic in school?

If I own a house, does it mean you don't own a house? What does it have to do with the price of tea in CHina

I only posted on here because of LIES posted about my sifu, sadly by someone who claimed to be his student. OTher than that, I could really give a rodent's rear end
Then it took off from there.
lkfmdc, fiercest tiger simply asked a question, you didn't have to respond like that. Although the question shows that he misunderstood what was posted, it didn't appear to be an antagonistic post. It had a smiley face. You could have simply said that Chan Tai San's Bak Mei is different from many sifus in the Cheung Lai Chun tree but both are real. In my opinion, you two should end this now. There is no need for pages upon pages of taunts and insults.

[fiercest tiger]

Xia,

Thankyou!

[The Kahn]

I would have to agree,

FT was only asking simple questions

And as always the CTS guys spark up and rant sh!t, a guy cant read a simple thread without them arguing with someone about how they know more or are better, that in it's self is a sign of being insecure in what you know.

You guys should concentrate more on training than arguing with people on a forum or give better anwers without getting angry.

[lkfmdc]

Ah, suddenly it's my fault that Gary lacks basic reading skills? :rolleyes:

FT/Gary has always had a bug up his butt... there was nothing difficult in my posts to understand. I didn't even comment on BFP other than the "cheese" remark which even he conceded... then he starts crap about made up forms and straw man arguments....

Again, why did Gary suddenly think I made comments I didn't?? He asked me why I thought Doo Wai's forms were wrong when I never even commented on his forms. Then he set up his straw man BS....

The Kahn has a similar disability since no mention was made about anything being "better"... projection guys, it's a sign of insecurity

[lkfmdc]

I am saddened and disturbed to YET AGAIN see a certain person (NOT Lama Pai Sifu) attribute untrue and ignorant things to my teacher....

As Lama Pai Sifu just said, CTS did not do any Bok Fu Pai, never made any comments about it or Doo Wai... nor did he make a variety of other ignorant comments that have been attributed to him!

OK, so how do you get from this any comment about Doo Wai's forms being "wrong" or that CTS was the only one doing anything real?

It's the ENTIRE POST... please explain how you get that idea from this post?

[lkfmdc]

It's a well known fact, if my form isn't exactly like your form, then my form must be fake and I must be a fraud :rolleyes:

(/sarcasm)

My thoughs, on BFP, was that the tape I saw was "cheesey" like it was filmed in someone's living room and they were wearing souvenier (sp?) stand fake Chinese clothing, maybe it's the wrong tape I am thinking about

Same question; how do you get from this any comment about Doo Wai's forms being "wrong" or that CTS was the only one doing anything real? the ONLY comment here is about the "cheese" factor...

It's the ENTIRE POST... please explain how you get that idea from this post?

[lkfmdc]

where did I say his form is wrong? my only comment was the cheese factor, which it looks like you agree with

CTS's Bak Mei was quite real...

Obviously, Gary is only seeing what he wants to see since after the two poss above, neither of which comment on anything about Doo Wai, he was already starting crap,,, but wasn't my response direct enough?


where did I say his form is wrong?



Is that hard to understand in any way? Not unless you are mental or have a bug up your butt....

[fiercest tiger]

You still raving on ROSS?

My issue is that this whole thread is to attack a person (a friend) of mine and i am telling you what i know, how frigging hard is that for your simple brain?

I have no bug just you wanting to try and f@ck me since you like my picture that much?! ;)

Ross, i dont have a problem but i notice that everytime you argue with people you start making it personal which makes you like like a d!ck. Why not discuss why the bak mei of CTS is different or the better points or worst points rather then say CTS will rip my head off and sh!t down my throat comments, lmao. Lets be cival and discuss it or just leave it?!

[lkfmdc]

You still raving on ROSS?



IT appears you still are :rolleyes:




My issue is that this whole thread is to attack a person (a friend) of mine



Fantastic, except where in the three posts I made did I attack your friend before you started your crap? I only posted three times, on one page... I just re-posted them, it's pretty F-in easy to read, so where is my attack on your friend?

Considering I didn't at all attack your friend, don't you think the burden of being "civil" is on you? :rolleyes:

[fiercest tiger]

Yes ROSS,

Good luck with your Bak Mei, Mok Gar, Fukien Lion, San Da, kickboxing, tae kwon do, CLF, Pak Hok, Lungying! :rolleyes:

[lkfmdc]

Translation = Gary apparently can't even read simple English sentences and understand them... posts that had nothing to do with Doo Wai he interpreted as attacks, and being the wanker he is, he can't even admit he was wrong :rolleyes:

[Faruq]

Come on Ross. If someone said that something CTS produced or did looked "cheesy", whether you agreed or not, wouldn't the liberty the person took in saying it be lack of respect to CTS? If not to you, don't you think it could rub some CTS students the wrong way?

Anyone can misread a post without being mental or anything else. How many fights or arguments have been started here and on other forums because a post has been read wrong or misunderstood. We're all human, so we all make that mistake. Posts are misread every day.

Lastly, I think what FT posted needed to be seen again. This whole thread contains a lot of disparaging comments about Doo Wai and Bak Fu Pai. So it's good for everyone to be reminded that even a well respected master like Chan Tai San had people going around saying he didn't know anything, even though Chan Tai San was as real as a 45 magnum.

CLC, CTS and many other masters hid their real stuff, and created a lot of confusion as to what they really knew, and which students knew the "real" stuff. So now everyone is reminded that some whining SOB may claim that Doo Wai didn't know anything. He'll inevitably claim he studied with him and learned crap. Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean Sifu Doo didn't know anything. It could just meant he never showed him anything of value. There is a difference.

[lkfmdc]

Come on Ross. If someone said that something CTS produced or did looked "cheesy", whether you agreed or not, wouldn't the liberty the person took in saying it be lack of respect to CTS? If not to you, don't you think it could rub some CTS students the wrong way?



YOu must have missed the many posts by CTS students laughing about his country bumpkin manners, bad taste, Soviet era dress, etc....

And even Gary conceeded that the videos looked cheesey, leopard skins?




This whole thread contains a lot of disparaging comments about Doo Wai and Bak Fu Pai.


Except, ironically, by me! If he wanted to fight all the nay sayers, so be it... he singled me out even though I wasn't saying anything about Doo Wai (READ THE POSTS)

[fiercest tiger]

Ross, why you trying to keep this going? :rolleyes:

Im not here to fight anyone, including you "DOOFESS", but as usual you try and get personal and you are the last person to be trying to be put sh!t on others!!! :rolleyes:

Doo Wai is a funny character indeed, his collection of skins and cloths what he wears is up to him. He is a nice person with weird taste, kinda like wearing a monk outfit and thinking you are a lama i guess? :p

[lkfmdc]

1. I'll give you $100 if you ever find a picture of me in any monk outfit

2. I always thought they spoke ENGLISH down under, but with your posts I really have to investigate further :rolleyes:

[fiercest tiger]

We are convicts we cant speak your language, i wasnt talking about you dressing up in the outfit numbnuts!!

[Sui]

CTS knew PM hahahahahahaaha suuuuuck me ross your the boss.just cause clc kicked the sh!t out of CTS the great man. MUST mean CTS the great man KNEW pm.hahahahahaha

CTS and LAMA pie tastes of urine in the wind.lol NY city the home of kung fu hahahaha.

Doo wai whatever keeps you on the right side of "god"lol

[mung foo]

I personally don't think much about Doo Wai, but Fiercest Tiger did not get personal with you Ross.

So why do did you start the personal comments first? as in here-

Perhaps you failed logic in school?

It seems like your the one making an A$$ out of yourself, but that seems normal for you.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Garry,

No one said that CTS's bok mei was better or worse than anyone elses. As a matter of fact, all that was said regarding that was - his bok mei forms are the older versions of the currect CLC forms taught today.

Yes, CTS only taught a few bok mei forms to Me, David Ross and Steven Ventura along with another classmate Kenny Chin.

Whether or not CTS choreographed or re-choreographed a form is not the issue. CTS techniques were what made him different. They were high level as compared to many Kung-Fu sifu of today. Not all, but many. Additionally, when we talk about 'real' KF, he was a person who actually fought and killed people with it. There are a lot of people who claim to have fought with their KF and they may well have; but CTS fought guys who also knew KF and killed some of them. If you had a chance to have learned from him you'd know what I'm talking about.

So although your posts are sometimes a little 'open' to sucking people into a discussion that might debate 'intangibles' (why is one style/version better than the other), I don't think you have any bad intentions. :)

Additionally, I commented on Doo Wai's form and thought it was sloppy. I did say that there was some technique there, but it's sloppy. I'm practicing MA for 26 years, and TCMS for over 22 years. But you don't need to have studied for so long to see when someone is sloppy. I have seen your form and it is far better than Doo Wai. It seems that you two are friends, and that's cool. No one is bashing his character, he's probably a very nice guy. I'm just giving my opinion (which is just about all we CAN do on these forums) about the clip and what the guy did.

Does this settle your arguement with Dave?

[lkfmdc]

Hate to break it to you guys, but Gary's posts WERE illogical... I made no comment about the performance of Doo Wai's forms yet he wanted me to explain why I criticized them. I said CTS did real Bak Mei and he interpreted that to mean he was the only one. Dudes, the posts are clear as day to read for yourselves

And if thinking CTS didn't know Bak Mei helps you sleep at night, more power to you.... some people are apparenty very insecure

[B-Rad]

My issue is that this whole thread is to attack a person (a friend) of mine and i am telling you what i know, how frigging hard is that for your simple brain?
Ross didn't start the thread and what he said was extremely mild compared to most of our comments. He made a comment about the cheesy production values of Doo Wai's tapes (even said he may have been mistaken about who's videos he was remembering, lol). You even agreed with this. Then you made a comment implying that he had said CTS's Bak Mei was superior, when he clearly didn't. Then things blew up. Face it man, you started this particular fight by misreading what he said. Myself and some other guys had said worse (commenting on his "magic tricks" among other things) but you didn't get nasty or anything.

One other quote I wanted to comment on:


"My teacher, like a lot of Chinese teachers, felt that those who mattered always knew the real deal and those who didn't know the "real deal" never mattered. A sifu in the martial arts community (Mo Lum) knows exactly how a real Baai Si (adoption) ceremony takes place.

It was also common knowledge that my sifu had A, B, C, even D versions of everything he taught. Like I said previously, usually in 5 minutes he figured out whether you had potential or not. If you didn't, he never bothered to even try and show you the real stuff...

This is why, from time to time, you'll see some whining SOB claim that Chan Tai San didn't know anything. He'll inevitably claim he studied with him and learned crap. Of course, that doesn't mean Sifu Chan didn't know anything, it meant he never showed YOU anything of value. There is a difference....."


I WONDER WHO WROTE THIS???

LMAO

This kind of stuff certainly went on. While it sucks that it did happen, sometimes very skilled teachers had no problem teaching crap to some idiot who wanted to pay money for a title or just didn't want to put in the time and effort required to learn the basics. I've witnessed it before myself. Sometimes forms are even altered for different people for various reasons. This stuff happened, especially with some of the older generation teachers. It's hardly an incriminating statement though. In fact, it's unusually honest when many of us tend to portray our teachers as unfailable warrior saints, lol. People whos lives revolved around learning how to better harm their enemies didn't allways make the best ethical choices throughout life. Doesn't make them bad people, but I imagine a life like that would leave you with some issues and a slightly different view of the world than someone who's grown up with relative peace, prosperity, and stability in their lives.

[Faruq]

Okay B-Rad, but what about the people who were willing to put in the work, and money was their only way in the door? And I don't direct this specifically at CTS, but all sifu who do that. It seems that if the person isn't important enough in the sifu's eyes, they still get worthless stuff. I wish if they were gonna do that, they wouldn't take the person's money. It's kind of sad. Maybe that's why gong fu that can actually be used in combat has all but died.

And Ross bro, it wasn't cool to bring up the Miu Hin thing. Okay, I had never heard about that, but still. We know China's a communist country, and who gets a fair trail in communist countries? Unless you've got immense wealth and or social status, what kind of justice are you gonna get? And who's gonna have more social status than the descendants of one of the patriots that started the centuries-long campaign to depose the Ching and restore the Ming? I mean every style has kuen po floating around from a few centuries back that are purported to be from an actual monk at Sil Lum, and if there's no one left around from the 1600's to testify that Doo Wai's kuen po were actually written by Fong Doe Duk, who had been around Miu Hin long enough to catalogue his whole style, then of course Wai was gonna lose the case. That wasn't cool, bro.

Quote:
"My teacher, like a lot of Chinese teachers, felt that those who mattered always knew the real deal and those who didn't know the "real deal" never mattered. A sifu in the martial arts community (Mo Lum) knows exactly how a real Baai Si (adoption) ceremony takes place.

It was also common knowledge that my sifu had A, B, C, even D versions of everything he taught. Like I said previously, usually in 5 minutes he figured out whether you had potential or not. If you didn't, he never bothered to even try and show you the real stuff...

This is why, from time to time, you'll see some whining SOB claim that Chan Tai San didn't know anything. He'll inevitably claim he studied with him and learned crap. Of course, that doesn't mean Sifu Chan didn't know anything, it meant he never showed YOU anything of value. There is a difference....."


I WONDER WHO WROTE THIS???

LMAO
This kind of stuff certainly went on. While it sucks that it did happen, sometimes very skilled teachers had no problem teaching crap to some idiot who wanted to pay money for a title or just didn't want to put in the time and effort required to learn the basics. I've witnessed it before myself.

[lkfmdc]

And Ross bro, it wasn't cool to bring up the Miu Hin thing.



You'll note that I brought it up AFTER Gary started the crap, crap that happened simply because he didn't even bother to read what I actually wrote

He would have never gotten the apples if he hadn't shook the tree...

[B-Rad]

Okay B-Rad, but what about the people who were willing to put in the work, and money was their only way in the door? And I don't direct this specifically at CTS, but all sifu who do that. It seems that if the person isn't important enough in the sifu's eyes, they still get worthless stuff. I wish if they were gonna do that, they wouldn't take the person's money. It's kind of sad. Maybe that's why gong fu that can actually be used in combat has all but died.
Sure, stuff like that probably happened too. I'm not saying it was good or that it was an ok thing to do. In fact it sucks, and can cause some headaches for the real students down the road, lol. Just that it happened, and really had nothing to do with a teacher's actual knowledge. That's not the point though, because nothing in that quote supported or refuted anything anyone's claimed in this thread :p It was kind of random.

I don't think legit CMA has all but died though. Sharing of knowledge is more open to the general public than ever, and legit people ARE passing their stuff onto students all the time. It's just that you have a bit more garbage to wade through to find what you're looking for sometimes (some styles have more pretenders out there than others). There's been some positive and negative changes in CMA, and some changes that aren't really good or bad.

[Sui]

no it was green cloud pussssssy its obviouse you guys back each other being from the GREAT MAN CTS hahahahahaah who's the giver and who's the taker?lolololol
you lama pies are all w@nk and your sifu new and still took money.lolololololol
bai si my @$$ hahahahaah who is CTS's sifu no-one specific no lineage or made from the dead,yeh like clc taught me everything before he died,hahahahahaahah you can only account who is alive other wise its all lies,unless father to son etc.hahahahaaha

p.s green cloud your monkey kf is a mess,you are no "real deal"more like a succcker born a minute.hahahahahahaah you are no better just worse than doo wai.lol

[B-Rad]

:confused: If you're going to flame people, at least try to make a little sense...

[B-Rad]

faruq:

To quote someone, just put [ quote] at the begining of the section that is a quote and [ /quote] at the end of the section you want to quote (without the space inside the brackets of course. Makes things easier to read on these boards :).

[fiercest tiger]

Micheal Parella,

Thanks for your reply and nice to see that we dont need to argue this anymore, and we can be civil about the matter i appreciate that, thankyou! :)

Ross Bak Mei lama pai Sifu, lolol

How you get champions in your school beats me there musnt be any other kickboxing schools around in N.Y?! :p

Sui,

Hope you and fam is well, nice work! :)


Mung Foo,

I know we have had our differences but thankyou for what its worth, all the best!


Im done with this sh!t, sad to see we all kung fu men not getting along!

[fiercest tiger]

B-Rad

Look magic tricks or whatever you call it, like i said you made your decision about him thats fine. I know him personally and i can say he has skill and or even when he was young he did as well. Ark Wong was his friend, Douglus wong (white lotus) also learnt from him, do you think these guys would be around a fake man? :cool:

I do agree like i said the skins on the wall and the clothes is his personality weird but i think is cool he is doing what he wants doesnt care what you say or think. Give the guy a break, maybe like i mentioned you guys should put up your clips ross and his old version bak mei at full tilt lets see the man move?!

For what its worth, he put up a clip ok didnt impress people but to bag him constantly without you guys putting up clips is wrong! :(

Garry

[mung foo]

Fiercest Tiger-

Yup, we did have our differences.

Frankly, a lot of people who claim to know bak mei, know only BS. I haven't seen any Chan Tai San bak mei clips, so can't say otherwise. Certainly Lama, is totally 100%, different than bak mei.

But if Greencloud is a CTS student, and saying what he said about bakmei, then I am a little hesitant to say he actually learned bakmei.

[fiercest tiger]

Hey Mung,

Im at work right now, and i cant get to view much on the forums, but ill try and did up the clips of CTS teaching it, he does it slow of course with lama guys. It might be on one of there websites?


regards
FT

[lkfmdc]

How you get champions in your school beats me there musnt be any other kickboxing schools around in N.Y?! :p



The more you post, the more you show yourself for the insecure wanker you are. Just admit you can't read basic English and can't understand basic posts and then slink off.... funny how B-Rad saw you exactly for what you are

No, there is no kickboxing in NY :rolleyes: Big talk for a guy from a gazillion miles away,,,, But I hate to burst your bubble but my guys have placed at international championships and one was offered a K-1 MAX contract... but since you dont' know anything about fighting that will go way over your head

Sui is your buddy huh? His posts show even less education than yours, that's an achievement!

[Faruq]

Okay, this probably merits it's own thread, but...Ross said:

""My teacher, like a lot of Chinese teachers, felt that those who mattered always knew the real deal and those who didn't know the "real deal" never mattered........
It was also common knowledge that my sifu had A, B, C, even D versions of everything he taught. Like I said previously, usually in 5 minutes he figured out whether you had potential or not. If you didn't, he never bothered to even try and show you the real stuff..."

Let's take CTS out of this, and apply this to sifu's in general. It still holds water in many cases. And note that Ross didn't say anywhere that this was in cases where the person didn't want to work, or just wanted to buy a title. He just said if you didn't know the real deal, you didn't matter and if you didn't look like you had potential, you got fake stuff.

I think this has really watered down the skill level of gong fu practitioners in the worldwide community. I remember some former triad bounty hunter named master Pan, who has a great martial reputation, but if you see a clip of one of his classes, you scratch your head and think "if this is what this guy knows, how did he ever catch anyone?"




Sure, stuff like that probably happened too. I'm not saying it was good or that it was an ok thing to do. In fact it sucks, and can cause some headaches for the real students down the road, lol. Just that it happened, and really had nothing to do with a teacher's actual knowledge. That's not the point though, because nothing in that quote supported or refuted anything anyone's claimed in this thread :p It was kind of random.

[fiercest tiger]

Ross, your a big girl put your skirt back on!

Your right my english sucks cant help that just like you cant help being a P@@F!

The poor MMA scene how low they stoop to allow your school to be part of. You jump on the band wagon of BJJ now and god knows what else Krav Maga next? lol

I guess your still a white belt BJJ and now teaching its theories in your class with all your BJJ badges on the GI next to your CTS LOGO, hahha KING OF SOULSA! :)

Your a disgrace to LAMA PAI and CTS, wonder why greencloud hates you let alone the rest of your PAI!

Go put your panties back and pucker up you moron.... lol

Im out...

[lkfmdc]

Well Gary, you're ****phobia is showing :rolleyes: I've lost count of how many times you've thrown out school yard **** terms... trust me, even I were gay, you'd be well below my standards. It's very well known in NY that the women I'm with are always extremely hot

Your English of course could be improved, try a night school or an adult education program. Why wallow in ignorance?

If you weren't a gazillion miles away, I'd offer to set up some matches between my students and your students and then your students could beat us and show us up as fakes, but I guess it will never happen, as you are so far away, kinda conveinent :rolleyes:

[lkfmdc]

Gary

What makes you a wanker is you complete inability to just own up to your mistake like a man....

NOTE


Ross didn't start the thread and what he said was extremely mild compared to most of our comments. He made a comment about the cheesy production values of Doo Wai's tapes (even said he may have been mistaken about who's videos he was remembering, lol). You even agreed with this. Then you made a comment implying that he had said CTS's Bak Mei was superior, when he clearly didn't. Then things blew up. Face it man, you started this particular fight by misreading what he said.

[fiercest tiger]

Why set up students its to do with me and you? :D

I dont have a fulltime school anymore just some private students, when i do re-open and i have students that wish to fight in competition be it internationally or otherwise you will here from me untill then non of the guys are competing.

Then again i do have a few correspondance students that could kick your a$$, lets keep your fighters out of it and ill send my beginners and you can fight them and they arent fighting competition? :P

Do you always throw challengers to get a point across ROSS cant you talk this out, your a sad man ROSS you hide behind your students cause your a *****!

You probably pay for the call girls no one wants you, look at what you have become!

I prefer my english how it is cheers.... lol

[fiercest tiger]

Why keep it going are you after an appoligy, Is that what you are after your egomaniac?

[fiercest tiger]

I hope the moderators close this thread??? :o

GENE do something please!!!!!

[lkfmdc]

I dont have a fulltime school anymore



Why?




non of the guys are competing.


I assume you mean "none of my guys are currently competing".. that's ok




i do have a few correspondance students



Just like Doo Wai

Here's a hint Gary, raging h om o phobia and childish personal attacks don't make you look cool, they show you for the arse you are...

Also, acting as if you are proud of your poor English schools is anything but noble. Seek an adult education program and improve yourself.

I don't need an apology, I was trying to help you remove your own foot from your own mouth, but I guess you're too busy being "tough" to realize how foolish you are looking

[lkfmdc]

I hope the moderators close this thread??? :o

GENE do something please!!!!!

LMFAO..... I guess eventually even you realize what an arse you are making of yourself....

I should re-post the Miu Hin story, now that it's a few pages back

[fiercest tiger]

You are such a f@ckwit Ross, you do get off reading your own post believing you can kick a$$ and throwing challenges like a little kid that got his lunch money stolen. Your students must think my teacher sure is a d!ckhead, embarrasing to your Pai!

No, i want it banned cause this sh!t your spouting and challenging is not worth people reading.

King of Salsa, your a another school that is ripping of students, telling them you have won tittles. Greencloud knows you well enough, your a liar and cheat i hope the martial arts community really see through the crap you spout about yourself and see it for what it is. Your poor students im sure there are many good kung fu schools out there they can go too!

Who cares about Mui Hing, post your usual sh!t you speak!!

[lkfmdc]

LMFAO at you Gary.... man, you're low class, but we already knew that from your ****phobic remarks and diem store insults....

Really dude, go back to school, you can't even put together a coherent sentence. If I were you, I'd be teh one ashamed if my students were reading, "wow, Sifu Gary has no education what so ever and has to retreat to school yard insults"

LMFAO at you suddenly buddying up to Green Cloud, I guess you missed all the CTS people calling him out last week as the fraud he is... then again, I'm not surprised, you are so much alike :rolleyes:

I'm not at all surprised to learn you couldn't keep your school open...

Dude, go back to school, ignorance is no excuse

[GeneChing]

...anymore talk like that and you'll have to stay late writing "I will not antagonize flame wars" 100 times on the chalkboard.

I'm locking this thread for good measure.