Who here has read the Zhuangzi/Chuang Tzu?

[KC Elbows]

DJ's post about the meaning of kung fu reminded me of this.

Any favorite parts?

Out of the inner chapters, I like the story of the Kings of Impulsive and Impetuous, who, in appreciation of the kindness of the King of the Primal Whole, decide that since he lacks ears, eyes, etc. to appreciate the world, drill the appropriate appertures in him, killing him. It ties the inner chapters together perfectly, in that it is distinctions that the book says lead people from understanding, and that we see what we experience as being correct, when another may have another experience entirely.

The butcher section is also very good.

[Mr Punch]

The butcher bit is sweeeeet!

I used to read it a lot... but can't remember it so well now.

There's a good short bit (as part of another passage) about a guy who's really sick, but doesn't pay it any attention because it's his natural state. If you take it to one logical conclusion it could get a bit disturbing because you'd get to Jehovah's Witness territory of refusing medical treatment to the sick because it's not God's will... but as a simple little story it's nice. I've seen another longer version of the story (a Chinese folk-tale book maybe) where there's a series of older, more decrepit people, each one wearing a bigger smile! It kind of goes Monty Python in the end with a talking kidney! :D

Incidentally, as you like this I can also strongly recommend getting a good copy of The Ten Oxherding Pictures and the associated verse. It's only short and it's usually in another book (mine is in a great little book called 'a Zen Forest' which is an abridged version of the Zenrin Kushu (sp?!) ). I love it!

[Mr Punch]

Just checked (it's never far away!). The sickness one is vi:9 Metamorphosis. Marvelous!

Also, the Five Enemies and The Useless Tree are great (esp as an ex-forester lost in the concrete jungle - and being semi-useless to boot! :D ) and I used The Woodcarver as a practical guide!

Thanks KC - time for a revisit!

[KC Elbows]

Just checked (it's never far away!). The sickness one is vi:9 Metamorphosis. Marvelous!

Also, the Five Enemies and The Useless Tree are great (esp as an ex-forester lost in the concrete jungle - and being semi-useless to boot! :D ) and I used The Woodcarver as a practical guide!

Thanks KC - time for a revisit!

No problem.

Yeah, forgot the useless tree, that's another good one. The whole bit in the first chapter about the bird mocking Peng is must reading.

Thanks for the recommendation as well.

Here, have a Zhuangzi quote from Chapter 14:


It's lucky you didn't meet with a ruler who would try to govern the world as you say. The Six Classics are the old worn out paths of the former kings they are not the thing which walked the path. What you are expounding are simply these paths. Paths are made by shoes that walk them, they are by no means the shoes themselves!

And here's one from Chapter 18:


Names should stop when they have expressed reality, concepts of right should be founded on what is suitable.

Take that!

[David Jamieson]

Not in a while. My Dad has a copy of Chuang Tzu's stuff.
I haven't actually gandered at it since I was a teenager.

Thanks for putting it to the top of my want to read again list. :p

[cjurakpt]

Luv that Jong Ji (Cantonese for it) - frequent readings of Discussion on Making All Things Equal got me through last year and a half of college, in terms of moral support

Favorites include the Useless Tree (I try to be less useful each day...), Prince Wen Hui's Cook / Cutting Up an Ox also a great help on the path of life (especially my teacher's personal translation - i'll try to find it and post it),

also the Death of Chuang Tzu's wife is one of the finest pieces of the whole lot:


"Chuang Tzu's wife died. When Hui Tzu went to convey his condolences, he found Chuang Tzu sitting with his legs sprawled out, pounding on a tub and singing. 'You lived with her, she brought up your children and grew old,' said Hui Tzu. 'It should be enough simply not to weep at her death. But pounding on a tub and singing-this is going too far, isn't it?'

"Chuang Tzu said, 'You're wrong. When she first died, do you think I didn't grieve like anyone else? But I looked back to her beginning and the time before she was born. Not only the time before she was born, but the time before she had a body. Not only the time before she had a body, but the time before she had a spirit. In the midst of the jumble of wonder and mystery a change took place and she had a spirit. Another change and she had a body. Another change and she was born. Now there's been another change and she's dead. It's just like the progression of the four seasons, spring, summer, fall, winter.

"'Now she's going to lie down peacefully in a vast room. If I were to follow after her bawling and sobbing, it would show that I don't understand anything about fate. So I stopped.'" (Basic Writings, p.113)

my personal favorite: "The men of old breathed straight down to their heels."

someone else who liked Chuang Tzu but who can't be here to write about it was none other than Franz Kafka - he evidently read a great deal of Daoist writings, translated into German, of course - in some of his short stories (the Judgement, e.g.), there seems to me a definite influence of this...