Wampoa Military Academy

[Faruq]

Just wondering if anyone knows what systems were taught at Wampoa, and if whole systems were taught, or just basic stuff like in the U.S. boot camps. I think I remember reading somewhere that Chueng Lai Chun taught there, so I would think Bak Mei Pai would be popular there, but it was also mentioned in the Chan Tai San thread, so other styles must have been taught there too. I wonder how many famous masters taught there, or at least how many of the Ten Tigers actually taught there. If lists of instructors from 1890 to 1920 did exist somewhere on the net, they'd probably only be in Chinese anyway, so I'd still be out of luck.

[WanderingMonk]

Just wondering if anyone knows what systems were taught at Wampoa, and if whole systems were taught, or just basic stuff like in the U.S. boot camps. I think I remember reading somewhere that Chueng Lai Chun taught there, so I would think Bak Mei Pai would be popular there, but it was also mentioned in the Chan Tai San thread, so other styles must have been taught there too. I wonder how many famous masters taught there, or at least how many of the Ten Tigers actually taught there. If lists of instructors from 1890 to 1920 did exist somewhere on the net, they'd probably only be in Chinese anyway, so I'd still be out of luck.

Wampoa military academy was founded a few years after 1915.

[Faruq]

Well at least you've got me into the correct century now. Thanks. I read somewhere that general MacArthur was actually involved in its establishment. Do you know what years CLC taught there, what his official title was and the names of the other people that taught martial arts while he was there?

[WanderingMonk]

Well at least you've got me into the correct century now. Thanks. I read somewhere that general MacArthur was actually involved in its establishment. Do you know what years CLC taught there, what his official title was and the names of the other people that taught martial arts while he was there?

sorry, can't help you. but, I seriously doubt McAuthur would have anything to do with wampoa.

[NiHui]

ChangKaiShek was the first director of the academy,and he used the position to
consolidate his grip in the officers corps.ZhouEnLai from the Communist Party
was the political commissar.This happened at the time when the Party and
the Guomintan were forced to collaborate togheter.As a military academy there was no time to lose,Chinese students were taught elements of martial arts
but sure a military academy is not the place for full fledge styles.
There were classes related to Strategy,Tactics,Artillery,Transportation,Recon,
and Politics.Actually Wampoa supplied most of the officers that later would be
at the forefront of events in China,militarily and politically.
There is no reference to Gen.McArthur;it was Gen.Marshall who met Mao and
Chang in Chongqing in August-October 1945 with the mission of brokering
an understanding,but hostilities restarted in mid 1946.At that time Chonqing
was the capital where all government departments moved from Nanjing.

[Faruq]

Impressive NiHui! Do you know how many other famous masters taught there during Cheung Lai Chun's tenure there, or how many of the Ten Tigers actually taught there?

[NiHui]

Give me until tomorrow and I will give you the names.I remember from
old stories that there were two of them.But through the years I have observed
that the Ten Tigers are over stressed in the martial arts context.There were
less famous teachers who dedicated a lot.Many teachers went home after
Wampoa was closed,in the tumult of the civil war they led a quiet life,and
some of them were brought back to public life when China realized the need
to document old and rare styles in danger of disappearing.
Let me explain that if the famous are the "cover page",in real practical life
the many thousands of teachers in small schools,in far away villages and
across the vast territory of China are the ones that keep alive the art.
USA has inherited a rich and colourful heritage from successive waves of Chinese
immigrants experts in martial arts,as it came the vast majority of them from southern China brought their stories,legends,and knowledge;but what could be
common knowledge in southern China was perfectly unknown in the north or
west. Those regions also had and have their own regional styles,their heroes
and their legends,China is much more than Beijing and Guangzhou.
In this sense,there are many teachers and students in USA who dedicate a lot
of hours to perfect their art,only a few reach the cover pages,but those many
are the ones who keep the beauty and soul of the art.

[SPJ]

Yes. As pointed out, it is an intensive or crash course for army officers at Huang Pu. or the cradle of nationalist army.

It was an idea from Dr. Sun Yat Sen after seeing almost all the KMT members defecting to Yuan Si Kai. And he realized that he had to have an army that is loyal to KMT ideology to realize his revolution. other wise, everything is merely an empty talk or just a dream. CKS was selected as the principle of the military officer school.

Yes. the generals/officers of the red army (Hong Jun) were also raised in the same school.

the first of red army actually was part of nationalist army.

the name of PLA was adopted much later.

However, most of the local army was still under former warlords. such as Yen Xi Shan of Shan Xi.

The nationalist revolutionary army or Kuo Ming Ge Min Jun adopted the name of the central army (Zhong Yang Jun) after unification of China. They were loyal to CKS or nicknamed close division/ Di Xi.

---

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationalist_Chinese_Army

http://www.answers.com/topic/northern-expedition

http://www.answers.com/topic/whampoa-military-academy

[Faruq]

NiHui, what you're saying really makes sense. Thanks to SPJ too. But on the other hand NiHui, the big names are often what draws people who weren't born into gong fu families, to gong fu. And for me who wasn't born into a gong fu family, the stories and stuff sometimes re-kindle my interest. And because of the great number of skilled martial artists that had to have taught there, I had to narrow my question down to the ones that taught during the tenure of Cheung Lai Chun, definately a big name with great skill and ability.


Give me until tomorrow and I will give you the names.I remember from
old stories that there were two of them.But through the years I have observed
that the Ten Tigers are over stressed in the martial arts context.There were
less famous teachers who dedicated a lot.Many teachers went home after
Wampoa was closed,in the tumult of the civil war they led a quiet life,and
some of them were brought back to public life when China realized the need
to document old and rare styles in danger of disappearing.
Let me explain that if the famous are the "cover page",in real practical life
the many thousands of teachers in small schools,in far away villages and
across the vast territory of China are the ones that keep alive the art.
USA has inherited a rich and colourful heritage from successive waves of Chinese
immigrants experts in martial arts,as it came the vast majority of them from southern China brought their stories,legends,and knowledge;but what could be
common knowledge in southern China was perfectly unknown in the north or
west. Those regions also had and have their own regional styles,their heroes
and their legends,China is much more than Beijing and Guangzhou.
In this sense,there are many teachers and students in USA who dedicate a lot
of hours to perfect their art,only a few reach the cover pages,but those many
are the ones who keep the beauty and soul of the art.

[lkfmdc]

In 1924, the Guomindang (Chinese Nationalist Party) established the Whampoa Military Academy in Guangdong (Canton) province, Southern China in order to train the party’s leadership and create a modern military force. Having formed a strategic alliance with the Soviet Union in January 1923, the academy utilized Soviet methods of establishing party discipline, political indoctrination and training of military personnel. As Dr. Sun Yat-Sen, leader of the Guomindang said in 1923 "Since we wish to learn their (the Soviet Union’s) methods, I have asked (Soviet advisor) Mr. (Michael) Borodin to be director of training of our Party." More Soviet advisors arrived in China in 1924, particularly to assist in military training.

[WanderingMonk]

It was an idea from Dr. Sun Yat Sen after seeing almost all the KMT members defecting to Yuan Si Kai.

I believe that was an error on your part.

perhaps, many of the regional strong men (provincial warlords) who had allied with KMT had switched side, not exactly the same as what you wrote.

[mantis108]

I don't think Whampoa is the "craddle" of National Army. It might have been the brian child of Dr Sun and all but there was Yan Tang Military Academy, which many of its graduates includes CKS, who was also send to Japan to further study modernizing the Chinese military (Army). I think some of them went to the USA (air force), Germany (artillary), etc...

Mantis108

[WanderingMonk]

I don't think Whampoa is the "craddle" of National Army. It might have been the brian child of Dr Sun and all but there was Yan Tang Military Academy, which many of its graduates includes CKS, who was also send to Japan to further study modernizing the Chinese military (Army). I think some of them went to the USA (air force), Germany (artillary), etc...


Hi Mantis 108,

don't know much about Yan tang, I did some search on yan tan and came up empty. but Nationalist did reform its officer school in Taiwan and it maintained the name Whampoa. So, as part of the tradition of nationalist's army, I believe they viewed whampoa as their basis.

If we are talking about "national" army, then even bao ding should get a mention because it was the school for the "new army".

also, I am not really sure if Whampoa is really Dr. Sun's brain child. I didn't study this part of the history, but in my mind, I seem to remember something about Chiang Kai-shek urging Dr. Sun to form KMT's own army after Dr. Sun was almost kidnapped on a battleship in guangdong by one of the warlord who decided to switch banner. this impression could be from the result of all the propagand used maintain Chiang's image as a national savior that I saw when I was a kid. but, as a military man, it does seem more logical for Chiang to urge Dr. Sun (the "spiritual leader") to sanction a KMT army.

wm

[Faruq]

All very interesting, but any of you got names of skilled and respected martial artists that taught there?

[SPJ]

I believe that was an error on your part.

perhaps, many of the regional strong men (provincial warlords) who had allied with KMT had switched side, not exactly the same as what you wrote.

Yes. That was what I meant to say. you are correct.

:D

[SPJ]

I heard many versions of the story.

There were a lot of delicate issues or interrelationships among all the characters involved.

Chen Jiong Ming was a KMT cadre assigned to be in charge of the military. He was in control of the army in the region. He did not use the force to move north against other warlords. He instead opted to stay behind in Guan Zhou. He stored away ammunition for the force moving north and refused to support logistically.

So the expedition force ran out of ammo and had to turned south/back.

Chen had other things in mind. He had the army. He wanted to be a warlord in the region and not supporting KMT causes anymore. Chen hunted down Song Ching Ling and Dr. Sun. Dr. Sun made it to the ship in the river. It is a new KMT navy ship. Song Ching Ling lost the baby or miscarriage and could not have baby anymore after that. She survived in the country side and eventually met up with Dr. Sun on the ship Yong Feng Jian. The ship was renamed Zhong Shan Jian. Zhong Shan is one of Dr. Sun many names.

The president body guards or team of guardsman or Wei Dui were almost all lost in the defense of presidential hall and getaway.

--

From this near death experience, the idea of having a school with officers "indoctrinated" was discussed on the ship. CKS was in Shanghai and heard about the incident. CKS rushed south, joined onboard the ship and was right next to Dr. Sun thruout the incident. Dr. Sun was impressed with CKS. Among all the KMT cadres, he was selected to be the candidate of prinicipal of the new school.

--

there are also stories about Song sisters, too.

--

[SPJ]

http://www.chinasite.com/Culture/History.html

http://www.chen-jiongming.com/index.html

http://www.chen-jiongming.com/Chinese/tupian/tu13.htm

there is a book written by Chen Jiong Ming's son detailing the stories.

you may read the book on line.

however, it is in Chinese.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiang_Kai-shek#Rise_to_power

rise to power section.

:D

[Faruq]

Well that looks like a big, fat "NO" to me. Fair enough. I guess Wampoa was primarily a place of politics and militarism, and if martial arts were there it was only coincidental. I mean for example, all of the important stuff that happened in, for example, CLC's life happened elsewhere. He didn't meet Lam Yu Gwai or Lin San at Wampoa, right? Even the fight I read about Chan Tai San having there in the CTS thread, was just one inconsequential fight of probably thousands he had.

So Wampoa's only important events had to do with politics, and not martial arts. Understood.

[fiercest tiger]

I think you are right Faruq!

[SPJ]

Sorry to side track your original post.

There are a lot of controversies about events leading upto the opening or establishing of Wampoa.

1. Yuan Shi Kai promised the west if he rose to power. which is not changing the treaties signed by Qing with special treatments and foreign concessions etc. so the west supported Yuan.

Dr. Sun was advocating abolishment of unequal treaties. He could only asked Soviet to help. So Wampoa was started under the structure of communist/nationalist working together.

2. regional warlords all have different western powers behind them. if China was not unified but goes by federated states. It would mean the foreign powers -> region warlords-> sliced up China.

one may argue that centralized power is not good and regional powers are more democratic etc. the issue was how to rid China of foreign powers influencing region by region.

--

back to regular programs or posts.

:D