Check Out These Breaks . Are They Real,or Fake ?

[FANWOO]

does any body know about the style Ming Chuan? "see site below." they seem to break with such ease,and as much as i have trained iron hand (4 yrs.), i can not break like that. any info on the style , or there iron hand training would be great. :) respectfully

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJL8plOiVe0

[SanHeChuan]

Most of it looks real, so it probably is all real. I like the finger break with the red brick.

http://www.mingchuan.ie/

[Flying-Monkey]

Yes. It is real.

[Chief Fox]

They're fake. Cheap Hollywood special effects. :rolleyes:

[couch]

They're fake. Cheap Hollywood special effects. :rolleyes:

I don't really care about the breaking part. How did he get that one brick to float in air?

That's TRUE skill. :yikes:

Best,
Kenton Sefcik

[EarthDragon]

from the video his skill is very basic. While I have to see him in person to better judge however again the breaks are basic and not very impressive. He used a lot of spacers and many of the breaks he is lifting right before impact which are tricks and not true breaks.

If you are indeed properly trained and have true iron palm there are a few things which you can show to prove you are FOR REAL

1. break a coconut.
2. break a cinder slab or block with the center of the palm not the heel.
3. break something using a waving action not force
4. break somthing withgout letting your hand loose contact of the object you are breaking.
5. stack 3 bricks togehter and break the middle one.

these are true skills just to name a few the many whom taught me REAL breaking showed me all the palor tricks thatr look like breaks and without knowing the diffeeence that can be presumed to be real

[Shaolinlueb]

from the video his skill is very basic. While I have to see him in person to better judge however again the breaks are basic and not very impressive. He used a lot of spacers and many of the breaks he is lifting right before impact which are tricks and not true breaks.

If you are indeed properly trained and have true iron palm there are a few things which you can show to prove you are FOR REAL

1. break a coconut.
2. break a cinder slab or block with the center of the palm not the heel.
3. break something using a waving action not force
4. break somthing withgout letting your hand loose contact of the object you are breaking.
5. stack 3 bricks togehter and break the middle one.

these are true skills just to name a few the many whom taught me REAL breaking showed me all the palor tricks thatr look like breaks and without knowing the difference that can be presumed to be real

can you do those breaks with your fingers? :p

i cant, so even if they aren't "true" breaks they are still impressive. and you still need an enormous amount of finger strength.

[EarthDragon]

Shaolinlueb, to answer your quesiton specifically NO.
I do not train that way with my fingers as I need the dexterity in them. And yes it requirers alot of finger strength but so does pushing it through a pop can I am not saying that they arent impressive to some but still basic in difficulty.
Nor do I train the knuckles with makiwara, rope around a tree or anthing else of that nature.
My hands are soft and uncaloused as I train only the palm. When a person performes a TRUE iron palm break they are using the luogong point in the center of the palm and are using qi to perfrom the break not force.

thus a slapping motion not very forceful as in mucular strength, you are simply concentraing the qi to a specific point then using it to penetrate the object. This can be done in its highest level with simple vibration without lifting or breaking contact with the object, though that level is seldom ever reached.

[David Jamieson]

it depends entirely on the medium sued to fabricate the bricks.

for instance, brick can be made without mortar and hence be brittle and break with very little pressure force. when dried, they become even more brittle, the same goes for boards, which when used for breaking are often kiln dried soas to remove the moisture and render the board brittle.

these factors render most breaking demos moot.

notice the colouring of the slabs and bricks used. None of it looked like construction grade material. It looked like it was produced for the purpose of breaking demonstrations.

had he busted a cinder block, or a diveted construction grade red brick, i think it would have on the all round been a little more convincing of skill application.

It's hard to tell much from a video. Having a cloth over doesn't reveal much either.

[EarthDragon]

David, you made me laugh then think..... He did cover up the brick with a cloth LOL I talked to a guy several years ago who used to do this and I asked why and he said so i dont hurt my hand becuse the brick is rough.?????????

I had to laugh out loud when he said that and replied yeah you should stick to wood its softer....

Truth is there are a lot of fakes out there and others that simply muscle and use brute force to break, these are not true skills and not recognized by true palm players.

But when shown to the unskilled practioner they may appear amazing and skilled, but then so is pulling a rabbit out of your hat if you dont know the trick!

[Lama Pai Sifu]

First, I would like to say that I am not sure if any of the bricks were 'baked' or not. They are certainly not 'construction style' bricks with glass, and other materials in them. That is obvious.

I'm more impressed that a guy with such a big gut can move like that! :confused:

I think there are several issues at hand here;

When he is doing the 'finger' style breaks, there is a metal plate under the brick and most likely a 'wedge' directly under it as well. My guess it is metal as well. That will make the brick much easier to break.

A myriad of unusual materials make it kind of suspect, not to mention using uneven areas to break against, i.e., the rocky fence, natural rock formations, etc.

But,..He definatly has learned the skill of breaking along with the use of physics. You have to give him that.

Some of the breaks, I have never seen before. I'd have to try some of them in order to determine how difficult they are.

I think I will video tape myself doing a few over the next month or so,...looks like fun.

Sidebar: I have never tried to break a brick with my fingers. I can break three 1" boards (6" X 10" X 1") and can do 2 finger push ups (index and middle fingers). My best was about 30. I can also poke my fingers through 3/8" sheetrock and thrust one or two fingers at a time into a watermelon.

I can also (sometimes) break the send brick in a stack of two. (red construction style bricks). Sometimes it works, sometimes not. I should look into easier materials though.

[David Jamieson]

a nobody, with no training, on average can snap through 3-5 spaced boards by simply swinging their forearm into it.

might get a bruise, might not. anyway, a couple of people have demonstrated this not only on the discovery channel when they did a series of shows that showed the physics of kungfu tricks on stage, but also physics of many martial arts tricks in general.

others have shown it as well.

not there there isn't a skill, there is, but the line between skill and average does exist and is diminished in a lot of ways by the tricks that people just don't think about or inhibit in their mind an ability to already do.

[Kristoffer]

If u cant even do the breakings in this video, how can you proclaime them as non real..? I dont know if he prepared them before filming so they would break easier, I dont know anything about this guy. I'm asuming he's real because I've seen these things myself and then some. But using space, and hitting with the hard parts of your hand is not fake! It's common sense. Using no space is harder, but using space isn't fake just because of that. It's just another level. Also, finger breaking is not very basic at all. Sure his brick might not have been the most densest one, but who knows wtf he'll be able to do in the future you know what I mean? Now, I'm not praising his skills at all but I think it's rediculous to be so negative about someones skills you yourself can't even do.

EarthDragon, how about you post some proof to your palm breakings? (Not using the root but the center of it). The difference between this guy and you is that you are a trash talker and critiziser of something you don't have a clue about, and this guy is posting vids. What's with the attitude, really?

[Flying-Monkey]

If u cant even do the breakings in this video, how can you proclaime them as non real..? I dont know if he prepared them before filming so they would break easier, I dont know anything about this guy. I'm asuming he's real because I've seen these things myself and then some. But using space, and hitting with the hard parts of your hand is not fake! It's common sense. Using no space is harder, but using space isn't fake just because of that. It's just another level. Also, finger breaking is not very basic at all. Sure his brick might not have been the most densest one, but who knows wtf he'll be able to do in the future you know what I mean? Now, I'm not praising his skills at all but I think it's rediculous to be so negative about someones skills you yourself can't even do.

EarthDragon, how about you post some proof to your palm breakings? (Not using the root but the center of it). The difference between this guy and you is that you are a trash talker and critiziser of something you don't have a clue about, and this guy is posting vids. What's with the attitude, really?


Bravo!!!!!! :D

[Lama Pai Sifu]

I agree.

I think the guy has some definate skill, as I mentioned above. Its hard to speculate as to wether or not the bricks/materials are very hard or not very hard.

Fact is; he does some impressive stuff and it shouldn't be taken away from him.

And as far as spacers, yes; they make breaking eaiser, but if you have never broken 5 or 6 patio blocks WITH spacers before (not as easy as you think), you shouldn't be talking smack. Everyone likes to talk about the spacers...

And Earthdragon, breaking a coconut has NOTHING to do with Iron palm skill. I was able to break one almost 20 years ago, and I hadn't really done any palm training at all. I'm just strong and I didn't flinch. :)

So whoever taught you and told you that breaking a coconut was an indication of iron palm skill, misled you. It clearly is not. Not to mention that 'quack' LACEY, breaks coconuts with his palm, and he clearly is devoid of any real skills.

Peace.

[EarthDragon]

krisotfer,
EarthDragon, how about you post some proof to your palm breakings? (Not using the root but the center of it). The difference between this guy and you is that you are a trash talker and critiziser of something you don't have a clue about, and this guy is posting vids. What's with the attitude, really?

First off I have nothing to prove to you or anyone else on the internet . I am not a trash talker as you say, I just answered the question that FANWOO asked and stated my opinon and pointed the obvious. If you knew what you were talking about you would realize it as well. Your assumtion and ridiculous statement of me not having a clue what I am talking about makes you your words simple and full of nothing but disrespect. I am not saying anything bad about the guy just that his breaks were basic, whats wrong with that?

I studied iron plam under brian grey's top student, since 1996 so if you know anything that should be proof enough. I think it is you who is the trash talker for you views always seem to be negative and disrespctful towards others.

David jamison I am talking about placing a towel over a coconut putting your hand on it then crushing it without your hand breaking contact. This is a very old and high level skill. I have seen it done just a few times, the other highest level break I saw was when a man stacked 3 tomatoes on top one another hit the stack and squished the middle one sending seeds all over the table without breaking the skin on the 1st and 3rd ones........

[Chief Fox]

What is up with people who break stuff? What is the point really?

I saw an interview one time where a guy said that he could break coconuts. Then he said that coconuts are harder than a human skull. So he drew the conclusion that he could break a human skull. Of course a coconut isn't wrapped in skin, muscle, filled with blood and containing a brain. The human skull also isn't a brittle as a coconut either, so could he really break it? One last rant. This guy was claiming that he can break bones. Well aren't his hands made out of bones? Wouldn't the bones is his own hands be the first ones to break?

I guess that I understand breaking to a certain extent. Proper alignment, focus, form and technique. But when it gets to the point of all these multiple bricks, breaking with a very slight shin movement or breaking with your head. I just don't get it. It's all for show.

So I guess I'm saying that I'm not really all that impressed with people who break stuff.

[EarthDragon]

Chief Fox
to compare a coconut to the skull is ridiculous dont know who claimed this but obviously it is untrue.

for someone to use thier breaking skills they are not using force perse, so NO you would not break the bones in your hand first. otherwise when people hit concrete and it is denser then metacarples then thier hands would be broken all the time. I use the center of the palm where there is little mass and quite soft but again I am not using force, nor does that hand sting after so many years then you reach a level where you simple twist the dantien and allow kinetic energy spiral outward from the hand, this break is high level and looks easy to do until you try it then you realize that they have reached a certain level and must be respected for it.

It is a true skill with many many years of practice to reach higher levels, and yes thier are showmen out there whom try to impress others with the look at what I can do things but it is truley part of your path with martial arts. Hell i am not impressed with someone who can perform a spinning jumping kick 8 feet in the air but I respect the pratice it took to do it....

[Mr Punch]

I'm with Kristoffer. Looking forward to those vids Earthdragon! :D

BTW I can break a coconut with my 'iron hammer' technique. Very useful if you have a hammer handy and you like coconuts.

[Shaolinlueb]

Shaolinlueb, to answer your quesiton specifically NO.
I do not train that way with my fingers as I need the dexterity in them. And yes it requirers alot of finger strength but so does pushing it through a pop can I am not saying that they arent impressive to some but still basic in difficulty.
Nor do I train the knuckles with makiwara, rope around a tree or anthing else of that nature.
My hands are soft and uncaloused as I train only the palm. When a person performes a TRUE iron palm break they are using the luogong point in the center of the palm and are using qi to perfrom the break not force.

thus a slapping motion not very forceful as in mucular strength, you are simply concentraing the qi to a specific point then using it to penetrate the object. This can be done in its highest level with simple vibration without lifting or breaking contact with the object, though that level is seldom ever reached.

ED i was just pulling your leg, and thank you for asking my question seriously. cause i was actually asking you a serious one. and its david jamieson, if someone on this board is gonna argue its him ;) (sorry david its true ;) ). yes even the basic is hard. ;)

[Kristoffer]

I don't have anything more to say to a guy whos most impressive break was the break of a tomato.

[GeneChing]

Here's some serious breaking skill.

Iron head versus porcelain head. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wftuosM4KIk)

Alas, Gérard Depardieu... :eek:

[sanjuro_ronin]

Here's some serious breaking skill.

Iron head versus porcelain head. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wftuosM4KIk)

Alas, Gérard Depardieu... :eek:

Wow, talking about slumping...

[sanjuro_ronin]

By the way, re: the putting a towel over the slab thing,
I was told that it could help with avoiding getting cut on the slab ( jagged edges and all that) when you smack through it,
Now, I never used to do it until, of course, one day I cut my thumb.
Not bad mind you, but a cut never the less and as we know, no IP juice on an open cut.
So I started using a thin dish rag, no cuts after that, though I did get a little nick once.
Anyways, just as some guys NEVER hurt their hands, other do and learn their lesson.

[TenTigers]

that's why you never hurt your hand hitting arabs.

[sanjuro_ronin]

that's why you never hurt your hand hitting arabs.

Well, THAT makes sense !
I always thought they had soft skulls from all the sand eroding their bones !

[sanjuro_ronin]

BY the way, bones are denser than concrete.
I read that somewhere.

[IronWeasel]

By the way, re: the putting a towel over the slab thing,
I was told that it could help with avoiding getting cut on the slab ( jagged edges and all that) when you smack through it,
Now, I never used to do it until, of course, one day I cut my thumb.
Not bad mind you, but a cut never the less and as we know, no IP juice on an open cut.
So I started using a thin dish rag, no cuts after that, though I did get a little nick once.
Anyways, just as some guys NEVER hurt their hands, other do and learn their lesson.



Yeah, but the guy in the video was piling on three or four inches of towel for padding.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Yeah, but the guy in the video was piling on three or four inches of towel for padding.

Maybe his fingers weren't pudgy enough.
:D
I was referring to Earthdragon's view on people using towels/cloths.

I think that video is, well, there seems to be an aura of "fakeness" around it.
I may be wrong but it just doesn't look right, the breaks I mean.
Props for the flexability of Master Slim.

[IronWeasel]

Maybe his fingers weren't pudgy enough.
:D
I was referring to Earthdragon's view on people using towels/cloths.

I think that video is, well, there seems to be an aura of "fakeness" around it.
I may be wrong but it just doesn't look right, the breaks I mean.
Props for the flexability of Master Slim.




I'm surprised that some of Master Slim's blocks didn't break from the weight of all the towels.


...and yes, I also niticed his flexibility with those high kicks of his. He surely has very loose taint muscles.

I wonder how he trains...

[sanjuro_ronin]

I'm surprised that some of Master Slim's blocks didn't break from the weight of all the towels.


/QUOTE]

LOL !
Nice one.

[QUOTE]...and yes, I also niticed his flexibility with those high kicks of his. He surely has very loose taint muscles.

I wonder how he trains...


He trains by abusing construction material of course, must be a fetish like those coconut molesters have.

[Li Kao]

You're moving back bro, you can't move at all (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qH2aT3k8blk)

If at first you don't succeed ... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykDQDpjSuds)

And finally, Bruce Lee's immortal words of widsom on breaking: Boards don't hit back (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_uvsxxyWCA) (although to be fair -- neither do movie extras for the most part :D)

[sanjuro_ronin]

You're moving back bro, you can't move at all (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qH2aT3k8blk)

If at first you don't succeed ... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykDQDpjSuds)

And finally, Bruce Lee's immortal words of widsom on breaking: Boards don't hit back (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_uvsxxyWCA) (although to be fair -- neither do movie extras for the most part :D)

Anyone that has ever hit anything knows, everything hits back !

[SimonM]

I am not a breaker.

I don't do breaks.

I broke a board... once.

Breaks just don't interest me.

But... I also stomped on a cinderblock sized piece of ice once... not because I intended to break it but rather because I was ****ed off and it was there and at the right level to stomp and nobody would care if I stomped on it.

Split it in half easy.

Now I don't know how much harder to break those brick-like objects he stomped on would be than a block of ice...

But I know that, as a non-breaker, I wasn't terribly impressed.

[sanjuro_ronin]

See, here is the thing about breaking, anyone can do it with sheer brute force.
I mean, its a question of overcoming the thought of pain and drilling through the target.
It gets tricky when:
You are looking at serious inches of concrete or brick.
When you break with "relaxed power", ie: dead hand drop.
When you do standing or suspended breaks lie GM Gene Chicoine does.

Exotic breaks are cool, breaking coconuts, flaming pineapples, vicious mangos, and other assorted exotic fruits.

[Lucas]

See, here is the thing about breaking, anyone can do it with sheer brute force.
I mean, its a question of overcoming the thought of pain and drilling through the target.
It gets tricky when:
You are looking at serious inches of concrete or brick.
When you break with "relaxed power", ie: dead hand drop.
When you do standing or suspended breaks lie GM Gene Chicoine does.

Exotic breaks are cool, breaking coconuts, flaming pineapples, vicious mangos, and other assorted exotic fruits.

The last break is sick (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAveS-ODrLI) where he uses the 2 sticks and the newspaper

[Lucas]

what do you think about this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDqSr03dgp8&feature=related

[Liddel]

I dont believe the breaks to be real in the sence that the materials used are not rock hard IMO.

The finger breaks are dodge with covers on them and the leg breaks against blocks on the walls are a dead givaway with the last one being touched then pushed through all be it quite quick... the signs are there.

Regardless, IMO the guys co ordination in the bits with a training partner and kicks make me think he couldnt land one of those in a fight anyway....:D

DREW

[Li Kao]

Don't mean to be an arse but this thread reminds of the attached pic. I used to do breaking in my TKD days -- I guess it was fun at the time and gave a sort of ego boost in a way (I was a teenager then). I also dabbled in some iron fist and iron body qigong years later but I never really stuck at it.

[sanjuro_ronin]

The last break is sick (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAveS-ODrLI) where he uses the 2 sticks and the newspaper

GM Chicoine is one of a kind.

[sanjuro_ronin]

what do you think about this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDqSr03dgp8&feature=related

Pretty much right on the button.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Don't mean to be an arse but this thread reminds of the attached pic. I used to do breaking in my TKD days -- I guess it was fun at the time and gave a sort of ego boost in a way (I was a teenager then). I also dabbled in some iron fist and iron body qigong years later but I never really stuck at it.

See, here is the thing, I don't recall ANYONE ever saying that breaking demo has ANYTHING to do with fighting or MA per say, OUTSIDE of hand conditioning.
Breaking something shows that you can break it.
Period.
It is a test of hand/body conditioning/forging, nothing more.
Has anyone ever said differently?

When I hear the silly, "bricks don't hit back", I always wonder what it has to do with anything, I mean, unless I was actually fighting a brick, in the ring and trying to make it tap with a choke hold, what the F does it matter if it doesn't hit back ???
Punching bag don't hit back, thai pads don't hit back, baseball bats don't hit back, heck, nothing hist back, except your training partner or opponent, so what's the point?

[photo-master]

what do you think about this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDqSr03dgp8&feature=related

He is 100% correct!

[KC Elbows]

That's nothing. I can attach lumber together to build a frame, then put dry wall on it to make it into a wall, punch through the wall, and then patch it. I can also make a wall out of bricks. Anyone wanting my video, it's only $250, but afterwards, you too can reap the benefits of this skill set, which was previously unknown in the annals of kung fu.

For those who have depressions in the floor of their training room from decades of stomping, I would be happy to share a secret method for installing wood flooring, which involves at least ten years of squatting in horse stance with a sander blowing hot sawdust in your face for ten to fifteen hours a day before you advance to the next phase, buying your own equipment and making some kid do it while you try to sever your sciatica with tin snips in order to end the pain.

I assure you, you would have to pay many masters in China a lot more money for the same results.

[photo-master]

That's nothing. I can attach lumber together to build a frame, then put dry wall on it to make it into a wall, punch through the wall, and then patch it. I can also make a wall out of bricks. Anyone wanting my video, it's only $250, but afterwards, you too can reap the benefits of this skill set, which was previously unknown in the annals of kung fu.

For those who have depressions in the floor of their training room from decades of stomping, I would be happy to share a secret method for installing wood flooring, which involves at least ten years of squatting in horse stance with a sander blowing hot sawdust in your face for ten to fifteen hours a day before you advance to the next phase, buying your own equipment and making some kid do it while you try to sever your sciatica with tin snips in order to end the pain.

I assure you, you would have to pay many masters in China a lot more money for the same results.

And the point to this rambling is what? --Your a disgruntled carpenter?

[KC Elbows]

Nope, it's just funny to me that there's people going to home depot to buy stuff to break. Fun to watch, too.:)

[SIFU RON]

Back in the 70's a Karate Ka put on a breaking demo. He had 4 stacks of ice around him, one in front, one behind, and one on each side of him. There were a few tons on ice in these hugh stacks of ice, they were tall and long stacks of ice. He stood in the center, it was announced on the PA for everyone to remain silent as he needed to " focus mentally" for the task at hand. Then " BOOM" 4 blows and he broke though each stack, each one all the way to the floor !!!!!! one hit each stack. Amazing - the crowd flipped out, standing applause, extremely impressive.

I wondered how many folks, if any, realized each stack of ice broke straight through, a perfectly straight line in each one. Piano wire and salt .

Not all M/A fake this stuff, some guys are very, very, good and strong.

[Kevin73]

That last story about the ice reminded me of a story that someone told me.

Same scenario, the guy was preparing himself mentally for a big ice break and "gathering his chi". Well, while he is standing there the ice stacks breaks itself. He had scored it too much and the ice had melted just a little too much and the weight of it broke on it's own accord.

I have also seen demo's where someone is having a piece of wood broken over them, like a 2x4 or staff and in slow motion you see the wood breaking from the force of the swing before it even gets to the person.

[SIFU RON]

lol --- :)---

Ina somewhat " dim'ly lighted " area, a good distance from the viewer, the Master points his finger at a candle, bends his finger ( after meditating ) and the burning candle snaps in half. It's a excellent snap, rounded pefectly, no uneven spots. Awww the wonders of thread.

[Shaolinlueb]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fwlG45TMyU

i actually know this guy. he goes to the local rock places to buy hard new england brick to do his stuff. some of its not true breaking in a sense, but he is crazy.