Wholeness and the Implicate Order - David Bohm

[Braden]

I'm currently reading the Wholeness and the Implicate Order by David Bohm. Has anyone else read this? I found the first and third chapters (Fragmentation and Wholeness, and Reality and Knowledge Considered as Process) to be remarkably applicable to taoist thought.

For those interested, Bohm is one of the principle physicists involved in quantum mechanics, and the book is principly his (somewhat controvesial) update on where he thinks the future of that science goes. But it isof interest to those involved in linguistics, psychology, and philosophy as well.

[Chris McKinley]

Not sure if it was that exact title, but I've read some Bohm, also Pribram, a few years back. I'm a fan of the ideas in general. They seem to hold significant potential for explaining certain quantum phenomena.

In a similar, though (ahem) a bit less scientific vein, you might try The Tao of Chaos. I forget the author offhand, sorry. It puts forth some ideas regarding the Taoism of the I Ching and its relationship to the fundament of chaos.

[mantis108]

I have read the book. Is it available through Amazon.com?

A few thoughts on the Taoism bit:

Taoists were once upon a time "scientists". Some how they might have been trapped by their own codified language and became mystists.

Taoists and the I Ching have always regard reality as events. I Ching text mention events in the context of time (how it is viewed/percieved/applied) or vice versa over and over again.

Look at I Ching graphics, unlike the Greeks graphics, they are highly spatial-temporal.

In this event/space/time (reality) something is always happening. Even as death, something happens. It is never stagnate. So time itself changes (ie Quasi historical, physical, philosophical, mental, etc...) Yet again it is always the same subject to the beholder. This remains to be the most intrigue aspect of the I Ching.

Just a few thoughts off my mind...

Mantis108

Contraria Sunt Complementa

[Braden]

Hi Mantis. Yeah, Amazon has it.

It's not just the science that has taoist flavorings, although that's very true. Bohm's philosophy (which is highly related to his science) is also remarkable in this regard.

"As has been seen, fragmentation originates in essense in the fixing of the insights forming our overall self-world view, which follows on our generally mechanical, routinized and habitual modes of thought about these matters. Because the primary reality goes beyond anything that can be contained in fixed forms of measure, these insights must eventually cease to be adequate, and thus will give rise to various forms of unclarity and confusion. However, when the whole field of measure is open to original and creative insight, without any fixed limits or barriers, then our overall world view will cease to be rigid, and the whole field of measure will come into harmony, as fragmentation within it comes to an end. But original and creative insight within the whole field of measure is the action of the immeasureable. For when such insight occurs, the source cannot be within ideas allready contained in the field of measure but rather has to be in the immeasurable, which contains the essential formative cause of all that happens in the field of measure. The measurable and the immeasurable are then in harmony and indeed one sees that that are but different ways of considering the one and undivided whole.

When such harmony prevails, man can then not only have insight into the meaning of wholeness but, what is much more significant, he can realize the truth of this insight in every phase and aspect of his life."

On how to do this...

"... techniques of meditation that lead the whole process of mental operation non-verbally to the sort of quiet state of orderly and smooth flow needed to end fragmentation both in the actual process of thought and in its content..."

-David Bohm, in "Fragmentation and Wholeness" from Wholeness and the Implicate Order.

And this stuff is coming from a founder of quantum mechanics! Booyah!

[mantis108]

Thanks, Braden.

What a philosophy! :)

BTW, I view the field of measureable includes both reality and anti-reality(for lack of a better word).

Here I venture to said that Humans as 3 dimensional beings are bounded to be fragmented. Even the most "educated" could not escape. But the point is not to withdraw but rather evolve into a sentient being (Buddha if you will) ,who "act" without seam, with the field of measureable (action of immeasureable). Who but the Buddhas/immortals view their body-mind-spirit dynamic as events? Who but the buddhas see the communication without any framework of languages (all forms imaginable and un imaginable)? Meditation can sever as a step towards the gateway of evolution.

So, Braden, Booyah totally!

Mantis108

Contraria Sunt Complementa

[dacheng]

In 1990 David Bohm had some very serious health problems, and was spending a lot of time in bed. At that time Cui Ruibin (one of the best students of Yao Zongxun was in UK). Cui taught health posts of yiquan (including lying, and then sitting and standing postures) to David Bohm, who soon recovered.

The above information comes from article "Yiquan zhendong Yinglun san dao" in "Wuhun" magazine (one of popularn martial arts magazines in China) 2/1991.

Andrzej Kalisz
yiquan@yiquan.com.pl
http://www.yiquan.com.pl

[Braden]

That's great! Thanks for the info! :)

[Turiyan]

Bohm is a physicist and therefor his ideas are likewise, limited by the theorys of physics.

He does explain the difference between brahman (not brahmin) and maya by using graphs. I use his model to describe a form of remote viewing.

Tantra is the vertice. Yoga is the horizontal. Tantra is exponential. Yoga is arithmetic.

"If he keeps all the (ten) organs as well as the (material) mind in subjection, he may gain all his aims, without reducing his body by (the practice) of Yoga." --C1V100 Brahmin constitution

"Those that disbelieve it (tantra) are fools. Forever to wallow in misery and suffering" --Song of mahamudra

Turiyan gold, Brahmin caste, Ordos clan
"A Brahmin, who is the giver of spiritual birth, the teacher of prescribed duty, is by right the father of an old man, though himself be a child." --Verse 22 of inner text of Brahminism