pole shaking exercises

[Wongsifu]

i posted this on the main forum also but could you please help me out i thought maybe it would be more appropriate here,
I just read an article on baji and piqua and they both mentioned using pole shaking techniques.
I remember reading in an article by chen xiaowang that pole shking was very important.
could you please explain what this is,i believe it may be called dan zi gung or dan zi kun. dont remember owever, i saw my teacher doing something with the pole but its not this.
could you please describe it or post some pictures as to how it is performed.
thanks a lot

I wongsifu shall strike fear into the hearts of trolls and mma guys who **** me off on these forums oh and in real life.

[Nexus]

here in alaska teaches Bajiquan to his disciples. I know only what Paolo has told me of it, but he posts here on the forum and if he finds this message, he may be able to give you an excellent description on it.

Hope you find what you are looking for, and a little more of course!

- Nexus

Freedom is what you do with what is done to you. - Sartres

[ChemE1]

... are routines or exercises using a semi-flexible pole, used to practice bringing soft power out. Dantien rotation drives the whip-like motion of the body out through the pole. This in turn makes the hands and arms very strong, since the wave of power bounces back and forth from the ground via the legs, the waist, the arms and hands, etc.. It is essentially a practical extension of Chen or Baji power training.

Here is what it looks like:

Chen Zhenglei Pole Shaking (http://www.americanchentaichi.com/Pages/CZLmovie.html)

At first you might say it looks like any other staff exercise, but it isn't. Look at his back leg, then look at his dantien during the movements. It isn't something that should be done after only studying video clips; a good teacher should show you how to do it right.

Regards,
ChemE

[Wongsifu]

thanks a lot man.

it looks bloody complicated its basically executing fajing and directing it to the pole, i guess.... and because the pole has weight it in creases power.

I wongsifu shall strike fear into the hearts of trolls and mma guys who **** me off on these forums oh and in real life.

[baji-fist]

Check out Yang Xiao Dong's website at http://www.wutangcenter.com or James Guo site at http://www.bajimen.com
They both have great articles on the uses of the lance. You may also want to talk to RAF, he is a student of Yang Xiao Dong and a very knowledgable practioner of Bajiquan.

You must eat bitter before you can taste sweet.

[RAF]

Thanks Guo Bao-lo but James Guo Laoshi and Allen Chen really know the da qiang and can provied the best techinical answers. The ihquirer should post them at the Toronto based website.


http://www.bajimen.com/

The da qiang exercises are quite simple in appearance but difficult to do properly.

For Baji, you'll need a 10 to 13 foot spear with a proper taper (no need of a spear head). You'll also need someone to instruct you. The first exercise we do is simple: Standing in a bow stance, holding the qiang with front palm facing up and back hand gripped downward, we turn the spear over, going from the horse stance to a bow stance. Done properly much of the movement comes from the kua hip area and dan tian. Beginners often use their upper body strength (arms and shoulders to turn the spear and that is a big mistake. Little is done with the arms in terms of the exercise. 20 or 30 of those will tire you quickly if done properly, i.e. deep stances. Do a couple of sets, along with 4 or 5 other spear exercises and that will be your workout.

That is the most basic and very important. There are a variety of other built upon the horse stance and bow postures. Punching the spear from a horse to a bow is probably the most important. We do not shake the spear like Chen practitioners but similar exercises can be done out of a static horse stance (a vertical shake with arms extened forward) or a moving half horse/half bow stance. There are also two man training. Some of this was illustrated in our Journal of Asian Martial Arts, Part II.

A friend showed me an old tape by Stuart Olson on the Yang practice and it comes from the same root IMHO. There is some footage from older practitioners performing the spear exercises and its worth watching. Also Ma Hong's tapes have some examples of Chen training. However, I think you'll still need a knowledgeable instructor.

BTW,like posture training and one punches, these exercises are long term keepers. Done properly, you won't need weight training---also if done properly you'll feel pumped but not in a weight lifter's way. I've been told its the tendons but I really don't care about a technical explanation--you get it by doing it. Oh yeah, I was told by another poster that Mike Sigman's tapes might contain these exercises. I don't know.

Good luck.

[patriot]

Pole shaking is a standard basic training for serious Tai Chi practitioners. Great masters like Chen Fake and YCF were known to do at least 200 pole shakings a day. Usually a long (about 10 ft) white wax pole is used. One of the Yang masters (Yang Banhou?) was known to use a heavy iron pole and broke it after prolonged use. Pole shaking is usually taught only to those who already have solid fundamentals.