To TenTigers

[Firehawk4]

What can you tell me about Ngoh Mei P'ai what is its history and lineage what kind of forms does it have does it have Sam Chian form ? Does it use the Phoenix Eye Fist ?

[TenTigers]

all I know is what little I have been told. My ex,learned from her Mom, who learned from hers, etc. She said it was a woman's sect, and that the temple was run by nuns. Now, there might have been nuns as well as monks there, and Bak Mei Dao Yan was said to have lived there, or hid out there. They said that the art, Bak Mei was originally called Ngoh Mei P'ai and thet CLC was the person who gave it the name. I have heard other accounts of this as well.
It does indeed use the phoenix eye, as well as the dragon's head strike (middle knuckle) and it has a form of samjien kuen.
Her art is directly tied in with the healing,(she was an excellent Tit Da Yee as well as her mom) as it relies on hitting points.Many of the strikes were to acu points as women are usually able to get alot closer to a man., and often were grabbed as well.
There were also weapons that were taught exclusively to women, such as various pins, darts concealed in clothing, jewelry,hair, etc. A sash with wire woven into it ending in tassells with wires inside, or steel balls at the ends. These could be used for strangulation as well as whipping into the eyes. Her mother had made her shoes as a child, which were very pretty brocade, yet with a blade in the toe. (evedently, Fong Sai-Yuk wasn't the only one. Ya think Rosa Klebb was really Chinese?) Many movements that we see in dance, such as balancing teacups, were actually hidden techniques, such as anti-joint locking, and body coiling to develop power. This is still paracticed in many lines of Bot-Kua as well.
Fans were used to strike points as well, and again, many movements found their way into classical dance.
So, picture Bak Mei practiced by women, who carry concealed weapons, and you pretty much habe it in a nutshelll.
Save this post, as we all know that in a few months some lurker will do an article in the magazines and lay claim to it, and probably put out a dvd. But we all know where it came from. Right, Gene? :-)

[The Xia]

Now, there might have been nuns as well as monks there, and Bak Mei Dao Yan was said to have lived there, or hid out there. They said that the art, Bak Mei was originally called Ngoh Mei P'ai and thet CLC was the person who gave it the name. I have heard other accounts of this as well.
I'm not sure what you are saying here. Are you saying that Bak Mei hid out there and this is where he got his art from? Furthermore, are you saying that this art wasn't called Bak Mei until Cheung Lai Chun? :eek:

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Would this style also be called "Law" Mei Pai as well? The same way the Chinese interchange "N" and "L", like LAM PAI and NAM PAI?

Becuase if it is, my Sifu once mentioned this style and showed me the hand salute for it. It was similiar to a Bok Mei hand position, (Palm on top of a Pheonix eye fist) but instead of a palm, it was ANOTHER Pheonix eye fist. (Just as if you closed the top palm and formed a pheonix eye).

Not sure if we're talking about the same thing....just wondering...

[TenTigers]

that might be the same, but I haven't seen that salute. The salute I have seen is a dragon claw over a phoenix eye, but I could be wrong/

[TenTigers]

a former teacher taught me Bak Mei, but he also manintained that it was actually called Ngoh Mei P;ai. His sets were different and were more symetrical, rather than favoring one side. I don't know if this helps or not. I also cannot vouch for its authenticity. But then again, it seems that when you look at everyone's art, the histories,legends, etc. They all end up being made up. I think it's more marketing than history.

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

Sorry to poke my nose in here….

Ngo Mei Pai or Wu Mei Pai is one style that has captivated me since I was a kid doing CKF in Singapore.

There was a school in Singapore, known as “Dragon Lion Athletic Association”, that taught this style back then.

This style was headed by the late GM Tan Siao Koon.

I got a few old magazine write-ups about GM Tan and Ngo Mei Pai and I am including 1 page scan below.

According to GM Tan :-

• Founded by Wu Mei Shi Tai – a Buddhist nun.
• GM Tan’s Sifu, Chen Choon Kao, acquired the art from his maternal grandmother.
• Chen grandmother came from a Chu Gar village somewhere in the vicinity of Nanching.
• Most of the womenfolk there were trained in Ngo Mei Pai.

During the Ching dynasty, the villagers were scattered and some ended up in Fuzhou and it was there that GM Tan learnt the art. GM Tan was Fuzhou.

And that how I was able to watch them train in Singapore. GM Tan was a close friend of my late Fuzhou Sifu.

Best I can remember, NMP is Sanchiem based just like most White Crane except that it appears much harder with heavy emphasis on “iron shirt” training.

Unfortunately I don’t think there’s any video footage of the Singapore school. GM Tan did teach many students in his time and I hope to locate them my next trip there.

The interesting thing is that during my recent trip to Sibu Sarawak, I was working with some “Fong Yang Pai” folks.

Their stuff reminds me very strongly of Ngo Mei.

I will post a Fong Yang clip later……..

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[CFT]

Eric, it is a different Ngoh Mei to what you are referering to. In Mandarin pinyin it would be Emei, as in Emeishan.

See link for the Chinese characters: http://emeiqigong.com/

Your Ngo Mei or Wu Mei is what I would call "Ng Mui/Moi" in Cantonese, one of the fabled Shaolin Ancestors.

[Ben Gash]

Am I missing soemthing? How can you make that assertion? Have I missed something on another thread?
Ngoh is a fairly common romanisation of the Hokkien form of Wu/Ng, and the whole nun aspect would tie in well with the Ng Mui/Wu Mei of the 5 elders.

[Eric Ling]

Eric, it is a different Ngoh Mei to what you are referering to. In Mandarin pinyin it would be Emei, as in Emeishan.

See link for the Chinese characters: http://emeiqigong.com/

Your Ngo Mei or Wu Mei is what I would call "Ng Mui/Moi" in Cantonese, one of the fabled Shaolin Ancestors.


Ooooops…time to go easy on the Carlsberg ….

Omei or Emei – I get it now.

Trust the Chinese to invent this bizarre language.

Emei; yes I remember their phoenix-eye fist but their delivery is rather “long” when compared to typical Hakka’s..

But then it could be the Carlsberg talking again.

Warmest Regards.

Eric

[CFT]

Well maybe it is the same. Who knows unless we see the Chinese characters for the Ngoh Mei that TenTigers is refering to? I was going by the pinyin provided by TenTigers and Lama Pai Sifu. Their posts seemed to use Cantonese pronunciation, so Ngoh Mei would be Ngoor Mei, rather than Ng Mui.

So how is "five" (ng in Cantonese) pronounced in Fukinese/Hokkien? Eric uses ngo which I would interpret as ng-owe.

[TenTigers]

Ngoh Mei refers to Ngoh Mei San, the mountain in China, and is definately not Ng Mui. However, this does not mean that there is not a connection, whether in reality, style, or "Tradional History" of the system. It does seem to be connected as far as it being a system that was practiced and handed down by women, so my curiosity is piqued. I wish I had more info on it. (but you know hoe ex's are. that door is shut) :( If you can get more info, Eric It would be cool, also if anyone can translate the Chinese, perhaps we could piece it together.

[CFT]

Ah right, so it is Omei/Emeishan. I guessed it was because the populist tradition does associate women with Ngoh Mei Pai.

[Firehawk4]

I have found two lineages of this art that come from Vietnam one is from Chau Quan Ki of the Quan Ki Do he was a Hakka and they call this art Nga Mi Phai (Wu Me Pai ) it is supposed to come from Emie area .What strange about Chau Quan Ki Nga Mi Phai (Wu Me Pai ) is that they have some forms as Pak Mei like Jik Bo and some others 24 forms the guys from the Quan Ki Do where talking about this on a forum i think Cyberkwoon .Chau Quan Ki also knew Hakka Southern Mantis Chau Gia Doung Lang and Theulam Nam Phai . The other one is also Nga Mi Phai (Wu Me Pai ) coming from the Hung Jia Vietnam School they only mainly teach there art to Women . There is also Ken Lo of New York who teaches Wu Me Pai he has a video tape out on it . Wu Mi or Ng Mui is supposed to have gone to some Temple in Kwan Sai province called White Crane Temple there she taught her arts from what i have herd this temple has something to do with Buddhist and Daohist teachings . Maybe there are different versions of this art Ngo Mei art (Wu Me Pai ) Eric said his came from some Hakka people Chau Quan Ki s also comes from the Hakka but his is supposed to be Emie style Ngo Mei Pai . But one thing is for sure it is mainly taught to Women atleast in the past the Dog style Gou Quan was also supposed to come from some temple that only women learned a temple in Fujian with nuns the Dog style was taght to the Chen family by a nun named Master April .

[Firehawk4]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80Fr14oluQo&mode=related&search=