Not so private lesson on stances

[tjwingchun]

Just me being masochistic here but it is the only video that I have prepared for YouTube until I get my system sorted and can start producing more 'professional' footage.

Here are sections from a private lesson with my student Mike, just interested in how it translates outside the session as it was not meant as a promotional thing, simply him recording his class so he could review it later.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=020nklHTG6E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUgmOz6l-FY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWGBOeYE0KQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoCn1ZI5t-w

Already had a comment:-

"How can two be bull sh@ting so much on nothing? You don't shift your center of gravity to your front leg, unless you get to the stage where you are qualify to learn BJD. Basically I am witnessing two half ass chiefs talking about how to turn authentic Chinese banquet dishes into Chop Suey!"

So not expecting too much approval lol. No, seriously I would like whatever criticism there is out there as how can I improve errors if I am not made aware of them.

Cheers and dare say as Arnie said "I will be back!"

Trevor

[k gledhill]

thanks for sharing , my only input, as usual, is that a lot of guys [not just you] , when 'chisaoing', tend to raise the elbows and allow the shoulder to weaken the 'chain' from ground to knuckles....keep the elbows lower and use the forearms more as a 'second set of hands'
.....rooting your stances is great but think of one guy training to avoid the line of force while the other chases the shadow....and vice versa. aka seung ma - tui ma
one is designated the bull while the other the bull fighter and swap over ...good exercise.
one day I"ll have the nuts to post a film of my self :D

[Average Joe]

The video's look quite good I really like the way that you and yor student have open discussion. I would like to ask one question. do you feel that both you and your student compromise balance by leaning in during your chi sao rather than keeping your shoulders centered above your hips

[Edmund]

Here are sections from a private lesson with my student Mike, just interested in how it translates outside the session as it was not meant as a promotional thing, simply him recording his class so he could review it later.
<snip>
Already had a comment:-

"How can two be bull sh@ting so much on nothing? You don't shift your center of gravity to your front leg, unless you get to the stage where you are qualify to learn BJD. Basically I am witnessing two half ass chiefs talking about how to turn authentic Chinese banquet dishes into Chop Suey!"


Sounds like you woke up a WC nutcase. I wouldn't call that constructive advice!

I only watched 2 of the clips but I don't think it translates that well into something for YouTube. It's a dialogue, fairly long and it's not really structured. Content wise it was OK but I'm not that clear on the points that you wanted to make because there was a little back and forth "argument" without a clear resolution.

I'd suggest if you want to produce more pro footage, go for short and concise monologue. Edit things down later if you need to. Pick a point or a few points and demonstrate them. etc.

If you want to do dialogue, then maybe an interview format gives it some structure. i.e. Mike asks a question and gives you time for a long answer.

[tjwingchun]

thanks for sharing , my only input, as usual, is that a lot of guys [not just you] , when 'chisaoing', tend to raise the elbows and allow the shoulder to weaken the 'chain' from ground to knuckles....keep the elbows lower and use the forearms more as a 'second set of hands'

Thanks for the input, not sure about the high elbow comment? I tend to use my elbow more like a hand contact, for both sensing energy changes and controlling the other persons elbow and hence any line of attack, when in the Tan/Fook/Ding I try to maintain the elbow in the 'fixed' position, once in a Bong position my elbow changes character by becoming more of an active elbow rather than a passive high elbow structure.



.....rooting your stances is great but think of one guy training to avoid the line of force while the other chases the shadow....and vice versa. aka seung ma - tui ma
one is designated the bull while the other the bull fighter and swap over ...good exercise.
one day I"ll have the nuts to post a film of my self :D

I agree, when practicing Chi Sau it is important to have a trusting partner who will give energies and in the initial stages allow techiniques to work, very much a partnership for mutual learning rather than a competitive 'slap fest' event.


I would like to ask one question. do you feel that both you and your student compromise balance by leaning in during your chi sao rather than keeping your shoulders centered above your hips

Yes if we were not aware that we are simply practicing in Chi Sau.

After my entry techniques and I have contact with both arms if my shoulders are not infront of my hips then the structure from floor to point of contact is weak, if my shoulder is over my hips then I will be vulnerable to energy coming from my opponent or even the reactant energy from the collision.

I teach many various stages of Chi Sau, in the early stages the stance is as you say like the stance from the first two forms, shoulder over hip giving understanding of posture and linking the muscle groups involved in creating energies, later though my view is that students must become aware of the contact point and how the structures of the body react when collisions occur.

People say that this means I am too commited and can be re-directed, a view I cannot deny but in my defence I say that if I am in a fight and I am not commited finishing the confrontation asap then I have problems and if the person who I am in conflict with has better skills than me then again I have problems.

Chi Sau teaches you to react to changing circumstances and to adapt, it also gives you experience of when and where your energies and structures can be effective up close and in someones face.


I'd suggest if you want to produce more pro footage, go for short and concise monologue. Edit things down later if you need to. Pick a point or a few points and demonstrate them. etc.

If you want to do dialogue, then maybe an interview format gives it some structure. i.e. Mike asks a question and gives you time for a long answer.

Cheers for the advice and I take it onboard as what you are saying is what I have in mind, just not got the footage yet. Mike is a bit of a character, he did 12 years of Ju Jitsu and was a top fighter in that as well as a bit of a street practitioner :D in his first lesson when I was demonstrating a simple Pak Sau to a punch, his reponse to me showing him the Pak was to kick me in the knee:confused: that was some years ago and he has been with me ever since travelling from the other side of the UK. I always smile when I hear comments about how Chi Sau is just complient arm waving, with Mike it resembles warfare :D

[Mr Punch]

Jeebers geez,

24 or so mins of vid, with maybe two mins of hands-on work... well, I wouldn't hit you in the jaw... must be pretty strong there with flapping it for that long! :D

BTW, your body language and meta-language suggests you're not at ease and are trying to convince yourself/someone of something... maybe it's this that's causing your stiffness (especially stiff looking shoulders) which in turn is leading to too much of a forward lean to ovecompensate for stopping your power in your shoulders. There's no way that having your shoulders in front of your hips is an ideal position (if Mike was also not so intent on pushing forwards maybe he'd be able to capitalize on your leaning and work on his receiving more: lap, striking through etc), unless you're having trouble expressing your power through your shoulders: in your language, I can't see you being able to unload all your power through such a tense body structure. Maybe this is why on some occasions Mike seems to easily unbalance you with a simple pressure here and there.

Just a couple of points. Difficult to say from the vid. Props for posting it anyway, and showing us bunch of hyaenas what your're doing!

[Gooseman]

Mr Punch, what is meta-language?

Thanks

[tjwingchun]

When you have as many voices in your head as I do then it always look like an argument going on inside, :eek: as far as the stiffness goes I have long-term back problems, at 18 years old I was diagnosed with chronic low back strain and osteochondritis and told I would never play sport again, taking that advice once my back recovered enough I played a few games of rugby for College (the first time resulted in me being bed-ridden for 3 weeks, lol), also after University a few seasons for local clubs before I concentrated on teaching Wing Chun full time 7 days a week in 1983.

My back has gradually degenerated over time and I now also have a sacroiliac sprain on left side, intercostal neuralgia and spondylosis in the neck, both my Sifu who is adept in Chinese healing arts and a student that is a senior physio in the NHS have come to the same conclusion that my back is technically "fooked" :D

The leaning forward bit needs clearing up, it is really a representation of the contact position, by that I mean once you have made a move into your opponent and are about to apply energy into them, in my mind when transferring energy you must have the shoulders in front of the hips, as the hips must be in front of the knees and the knees in front of the ankles, with them all being aligned as best as possible in the plane of movement.

What I do is practice chi sau in a variety of ways each with its own purpose and visualised with a specific benefit in mind, when in the type of chi sau I was explaining leg energies to Mike I take up a sort of 'in contact' stance which is slightly leaning forward so that I have the ability to use energies from the floor off either leg immediately.

This use of what refer to as 'twitch energies' can be a bit difficult to describe without video demonstration so I will endeavour to produse some footage hopefully in the not too distant future that will enlighten the subject.

There are times when Mike unbalences me as I am in 'teaching mode' rather than 'doing mode' and hesitating to highlight for him what I am trying to show him and the thing with Mike he is very 'in your face', apart from having many years experience in martial arts he is mentally quite aggressive, so any weaknesses he identifies he will utilise them, great student to keep a teacher on his toes and not complacent.

[Kapten Klutz]

Thanks for posting it. I don't ahve any comments since I'm just trying to take it all in and am a beginner to boot. But it's like getting a private lesson for free. Keep it coming :)

[tjwingchun]

But it's like getting a private lesson for free. Keep it coming :)
It is getting one for free!

Mike paid £5 for that lesson, am I over charging? He now prefers to give me £10 per class but my life style has not changed a great deal.

Ask a question and I will try to answer as best I can, the more precise the query the better I will try to address the problem.

Trevor

[Mr Punch]

Mr Punch, what is meta-language?

ThanksIt is my incorrect use of language! I meant paralanguage!

Metalanguage is a way in formal linguistics of expressing the meaning of a piece of language using symbols or formulae.

Paralanguage (which I was meaning) is the ums and ers, and other non-verbal but vocal communication. It can also include tone, volume, rhythm, stress etc.

Thanks for the long answer tj: I'll be back when I have time to continue this discussion, quite possibly.

[AmanuJRY]

Metalanguage is a way in formal linguistics of expressing the meaning of a piece of language using symbols or formulae.

Not quite, metalanguage is a language used to make statements about another language (i.e. a book on grammer or javascript).

Expressing meaning using symbols is symbolism, I believe.

You are correct about paralanguage, though.

[tjwingchun]

Thanks for the long answer tj: I'll be back when I have time to continue this discussion, quite possibly.

I am getting a bit frightened by the possible length your next post is going to be lol :D :eek: ;)

Going to wait until I can produce some detailed video footage specifically to address/initiate discussions in the forums I go into, I have been suprised by the lack of ridicule and abuse that I received in Bullshido and I'm pleased with the general response to what was a personal discussion session rather than scripted instructional footage.