High kicks?

[X-Warrior]

OK, when I studied kung fu (praying mantis), for years my teacher used to stress over and over that high kicks are uneffective and impose danger on you because you reveal weak points on your body and they travel long way to their targets, therefore are easily detectable, blocked or evaded.

Now, I just watched this video clip of kyokushinkai (karate) fighters fighting against kung fu fighters - two matches, one looks like a drunken stylist, the others appears shaolin. The drunken stylist clearly gets beaten badly, the shaolin dude does better but still gets pounded on.

Anyway, the interesting point is that by far - and I really mean by far - most of the techniques scored on the kung fu guys were high kicks!! The karate guys barely even used any hand techniques, they just kicked and kicked and kicked and 80% of their kicks were high kicks!!

Why are high kicks so useless? I guess it's just more of a brainwash to stick to one style and effectivness really means how well you can use what you know. I mean I can see my instructor's point but these karate guys clearly demontrate high kicks ARE effective. As it is proven on the video, they are actually their most effective weapon.

Any comments? :confused:

-X-

[Ben Gash]

One of the most dangerous fighters I ever met was Kyokushin fighter who used to work the doors in Buenos Aires (pretty seriously rough). He had unbelievable kicking ability, and reckoned to have been in over 300 fights, over 150 of which he ended with a kick to the head. Now the key to this was A) he was a REALLY good kicker, B) the mechanics of his kicks (which are what I still use) presented a very direct path of travel for the foot and fully engaged the hips C) he could kick you in the head when standing shoulder to shoulder with you and D) he understood how to link his hands and feet and create opennings for the kicks.
Yes, kicking is risky, but then so is punching and so is clinching. Any attack will leave you vulnerable as it disrupts your defensive structure, but skillfull kicks shouldn't do it any more than anything else.
The problems people have with kicking are many, and to be honest are symptomatic of everything else that goes wrong with kung fu fighting.
1) They don't practice enough. Kicking is harder than punching, so if you don't practice it you'll never be able to use it.
2)They sacrifice balance and stability for height and reach. This means that your kicks are slow and weak, and you'll end up on your ass.
3)They don't create bridges. This goes back to the whole "why do so many Kung fu guys look like bad kickboxers?" debate. If you stand on the outside at range and try to pick shots with your legs, chances are you're not going to hit anyone. You need to use timing, positioning, entering and bridging to make ANY attack effective, so why do people always forget this with kicking?

[Juan Nowon]

OK, when I studied kung fu (praying mantis), for years my teacher used to stress over and over that high kicks are uneffective and impose danger on you because you reveal weak points on your body and they travel long way to their targets, therefore are easily detectable, blocked or evaded.

Now, I just watched this video clip of kyokushinkai (karate) fighters fighting against kung fu fighters - two matches, one looks like a drunken stylist, the others appears shaolin. The drunken stylist clearly gets beaten badly, the shaolin dude does better but still gets pounded on.

Anyway, the interesting point is that by far - and I really mean by far - most of the techniques scored on the kung fu guys were high kicks!! The karate guys barely even used any hand techniques, they just kicked and kicked and kicked and 80% of their kicks were high kicks!!

Why are high kicks so useless? I guess it's just more of a brainwash to stick to one style and effectivness really means how well you can use what you know. I mean I can see my instructor's point but these karate guys clearly demontrate high kicks ARE effective. As it is proven on the video, they are actually their most effective weapon.

Any comments? :confused:

-X-


High kicks.
Those high kicks can be a nightmare. One of my brothers always seems to be able to squeeze high kicks in if you are not carefull. If the one using high kicks knows what is, it'll seem like the kicks slip through a hole in your guard, when in fact one just knows how to open the gate by skillfull positioning. So if your playing the high kicks you will need room, of course there are always exceptions.
@ the same time you see skillfull high kicks shut down at the core by simple short hands. Depends on what is there.

In my personal experience, playing in closer to the other makes the use of high legs somewhat difficult, but not impossible. Of course you learn the range, If I happen to be in kicking range, of say a Mantis, you can bet it will be brief. Some know the range and get hit anyway, so its gunna depend on how you use what you have.

As we have seen, some are very adept with the long kicking power, while others prefer to use the shorter ways. It is obvious the strong and weak points will be there no matter which way you choose.
Protect yourself first , then do what you will.

Dont get hit.

[YouKnowWho]

Here is a simple test.

Let your opponent to use high kick on you 10 times. Everytime that you see his high kick coming at you, you just run your body through him (nothing fancy, you can even close your eyes and run toward him like a mad man).

Let us know his high kick successful rate from your test. Try this for 10 days and let us know the result for each day.

You may have different opinion about high kick after 10 days testing.

[Knifefighter]

High kicks work great if you are much better than your opponent as the karate guys were in that video.

[jigahus]

High kicks work great if you are much better than your opponent as the karate guys were in that video.

Ha ha...so true.

And about the 10 day thing...how about this you run into my punches for 10 days and then tell me if my punching is effective? If you let anything happen to you be it a high kick or punch you'll still be ko'd if you run into it.

[tug]

Anything is possible, nothing is perfect.

[Shaolin Wookie]

In my experience, high kicks are not effective. But then again, if you're fast enough and have a quick snap, a low kick feint opens up a world of hurt on someone focused low--it opens up a kick venue to the head. For the most part, hook kicks are the only high kicks regularly effective, and only then as part of a set up or feint.

As for the vid---I've seen it many times. Nobody on the Drunken end (yeah, it was all a bunch of Drunken boxing) even threw up a defense. Just a case of too much stumbling around and looking drunk, no boxing. At certain points in the fight, the kung fu guys were in good striking position, but they caught an unexpected kick (such as the first guy, who goes for a really low kick to the knee or groin, but catches a nasty one to hte face. It was either/or there, but he didn't follow through on the technique. Pretty much, though, Kyoshukin dudes are badass when it comes to a kick--but the kung fu guys don't cross block (X-block) or anything. They just cringe and take it.

So yeah, Knifefighter is right. If the opponent sucks, you can kick the crap out of his head.

And--here's a tip for training: If your teacher keeps saying, "don't kick high, it isn't effective", and then nobody in your school kicks high or knows how to defend against a high kick or does it regularly, most likely a high kick is gonna be your downfall, and it'll be pretty **** effective in execution....don't you agree?

My teachers always tell me never to throw a swinging fist/John Wayne punch in a fight, or any circular fist, b/c it's too slow. Well, I almost knocked out a first black belt in a sparring match when I was a beginner b/c he wasn't prepared for one. One of those "but you hit me wrong" kind of moments. "Now hit me right...."

Ain't no rules...

[Ben Gash]

Very useless high kick at 2:26 (against a Carlson Gracie student)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5tCLLrkn7g&mode=related&search=
;) I mean it only had the guy out on his feet :rolleyes:

[Ben Gash]

Some more ineffective high kicks :rolleyes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xvj7ST3nlQ4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ev-A0X3z8-w

[DaveTart]

anyone got a link to the video the original poster was talking about?

As for high-kicks, it's like anything - if you pracise enough, and get good enough, they are useful. If not, then they won't be.

I know that's a simplistic comment, but it's true. Plus of course it entirely depends what sort of fighting you are doing as well. I'd throw then in a points match if i could get away with it, I do throw them in continuous as you can set them up better, but i wouldn't throw them for self defense - then i need my legs for running away, terribly fast.

[tug]

anyone got a link to the video the original poster was talking about?

As for high-kicks, it's like anything - if you pracise enough, and get good enough, they are useful. If not, then they won't be.

I know that's a simplistic comment, but it's true. Plus of course it entirely depends what sort of fighting you are doing as well. I'd throw then in a points match if i could get away with it, I do throw them in continuous as you can set them up better, but i wouldn't throw them for self defense - then i need my legs for running away, terribly fast.

My simple and preferred method is "run away". (and I'm fast. Just TRY to f me up!)

[SevenStar]

High kicks can be effective, but the key is in set up and timing. If you don't have these two things down, you'd be better off not using them.

[Juan Nowon]

Very useless high kick at 2:26 (against a Carlson Gracie student)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5tCLLrkn7g&mode=related&search=
;) I mean it only had the guy out on his feet :rolleyes:

I noted at least one effective use of a high kick by Maurice Smith.
Depends on how you use.

[Ben Gash]

I was being sarcastic :rolleyes:

[Juan Nowon]

The fellow in the link below displays an excelent ability to use his high kick when he needs it.

It could be the case that his opponent(s) have poor strategy for reacting to these kicks and the kicker himself has good strategy for setting up his opponent for a dome shot. Then again, this guy kicks right through the Guards of his adversaries... kinda hard to stop a kick that you can't see coming. ouch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTO3zFTTHiI

and another...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkJ64smVAq4

[SevenStar]

I haven't looked at the second clip yet, but the first is cro cop - arguably one of the best kickers in the world.

[lunghushan]

The problem with southern fighters is because they never use high kicks they never learn to defend against high kicks.

High kicks do leave the attacker extremely open to losing balance, and leaving their rear open.

However, if you never learned to defend against them you'll be in trouble.

Anyways, saying that southern fighters can't defend against karate is a little funny if you consider that karate is basically a southern chinese martial art.