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RAF
11-22-2006, 12:40 PM
Liu Yun Qiao, in a relatively late age, demostrating some interesting baji applications with students---baji orientation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HE0zSNng2Zs

SPJ
11-22-2006, 07:26 PM
Thank you. Thank you so much for posting.

It was filmed in 1981. I was a freshman in college.

:)

Ford Prefect
11-22-2006, 08:31 PM
Cool video. I think we disagree on what sparring means though. This seemed more of a demo than free fighting.

RAF
11-22-2006, 08:35 PM
Ford Perfect---you are correct---its really a demo with probably a bit of free movement. However, students are often intimidated---nonetheless its worth watching if you ever wondered about baji and what some of the applicaitons look like---he looks good for 72.

SPJ, do you know where this clip comes from? Is the video available?

Thanks.

RAF
11-22-2006, 08:49 PM
SPJ:

Do you know anything about this performer and the 32 movment form he is playing?

Its choreography is very close to what Liu Yun Qiao taught, however, there are some differences:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5eoDPBwug0&mode=related&search=

How about this Chen form?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiT9bKw5NDY&mode=related&search=

Thanks.

SPJ
11-23-2006, 07:04 AM
Hi;

I do not know the performer. I have a high school classmate that went to the Feng Chia University in the early 1980'. If the performer also attended the same school during that time. My classmate might know him.

I really enjoy the clip especially Ba Ji Lian Huan at the end. However, I do not have a copy of the documentary. The best thing to do maybe send a message to the poster and enquire about a copy of the video.

Yes, both the Yang and Chen are Wu Tan frames/Jia. I am familiar with the Chen forms. However, most of the time, I was practicing Chen Chang Xing Lao Jia which is original forms that all modern "styles" derived. I also had lessons on Northern Wu Tai Chi (popular in Beijing as opposed to Southern Wu popular in Shanghai).

So most of my knowing is Chen and some Wu style and not so much on Yang style.

Happy turkey day!.

:)

qiphlow
11-23-2006, 07:25 PM
SPJ--where in california are you?

SPJ
11-24-2006, 07:51 AM
Orange county.

:D

SPJ
11-26-2006, 12:41 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw15feTvKQA&mode=related&search=

a slide clip of Kuo Shu club in Feng Chia Univ.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SJ1v28Jq0M&NR

a long spear comp.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBH1VyyuVRs&mode=related&search=

a demo.

:)

FuXnDajenariht
11-27-2006, 12:02 AM
the matrix effects were sweet...

SPJ
11-27-2006, 09:18 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pRepVNFolo&mode=related&search

It is a Japanese TV documentary. There is an iron lion statue at Cang Zhou county. The clip also showed young Su Yu Chang. I like the Ba Ji Lian Huan at the end.

----

I will search more and provide links and info.

so this thread may be dedicated to him.

:)

SPJ
11-27-2006, 09:44 AM
In the Ba Ji Lian Huan;

you may see the hand move rotating especially close to the end. these are influences from Ba Gua.

--

:)

SPJ
11-29-2006, 09:48 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEBbG3DSMpQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRIDAT4RZOU


some clips of demo in commeration of 10 yr anniversary of master Liu's passing.

SPJ
12-01-2006, 08:57 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVVuwJdH4Kc&NR

a TV interview with Master Liu.

He said the upper body or Shang Pan is like a tiger or Hu Xing. the lower body or Xia Pan is like a bear or Xiong Xing. Ba Ji stressed Kao. On the outside, it may appear as hard as a steel (Kang Meng), actually, Ba Ji is very soft (Ruo) inside.

these are 3 things that he mentioned in the clip.

:)

SPJ
12-03-2006, 07:39 AM
Hi;

in the interview, Master Liu said

"Bear forms (Xiong Xing) are (Si) to neutralize (Hua). Kao is followed neutralization (Shun Hua) (this part is not clear to my ears due to accent). " (meaning Kao is also soft? so Ba Ji is (hitting/Da) soft (Ruo) entirely inside."

if someone knows about this part, please correct. Thanks.

:)

SPJ
12-10-2006, 10:34 AM
Master Liu and his final student or close/end door student Instructor Jin.

Taiwan's TV interview with Jin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQY5rQbQhnY

He talked about the horse stance. After some minutes, Master Liu would come up and step on the thigh to see if the student still holding the stance right. --Any Wushu, there are no mysteries. There is only good or poor practice. If you practice well, then you are good. Any style is all good.--

He also explained 3 layers of security guards will watch and form a body wall or take up the space around the protected.--

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5t18wGG_wtY

at the end of the clip, he explained that personal interests in practice is the most important motivation in practicing Wushu.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djdNbaOOnkM

He explained that how difficult the job for a presidential guard is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCiKj9zaunE

some students explained that Ba Ji fist is a northern style with big movement/opening and closing or Da Kai Da He. It is noted for his steelness or Kang Meng.

instructor Jin explained that Ba Ji has 2 characteristics. one is to jump out with explosiveness. It is to stop attacker from getting into the protected. the other is to give up your body or She. In old classics, it is to give up your position/distance to be close to the opponent. or She Yuan Chio Jin. Instructor Jin interpretated She as to be a body shield for the protected,
--

:)

RAF
12-10-2006, 04:46 PM
Thanks for the clips.

samson818
12-11-2006, 02:50 AM
Thanks SPJ,

Some really great stuff!

SPJ
12-11-2006, 08:16 AM
For the record, although Jin is a fine martial artist, he was not Liu's last student nor was he an indoor/disciple/tu di.



He was not the last. It is a direct quote from the TV show.

:)

RAF
12-11-2006, 10:09 AM
After thinking this over, there is no need to go down this route.

I'd rather honor the memory Liu Yun Qiao and the martial arts he taught.

samson818
12-11-2006, 01:15 PM
So Jin Li Yen was not one of GM Liu's tudi?

Did GM Liu Yun Chiao appoint a zhangmanren or successor?

I know he had many disciples, but anyone he chose to pass everything to?

SPJ
12-11-2006, 01:54 PM
RAF has the correct.

The TV reporter said he was trained and later became the "closed door" or Guan Men Di Zi.

:)

RAF
12-11-2006, 02:28 PM
There is no one who can lay claim as the sole inheritor of Liu's material.

I personally believe that those who make such claims after Liu's death are either doing it for marketing reasons or for serving their own egos.

Please note the above is not in reference to Mr. Jin.

Again, after thinking this over, there is no reason to go down this road. It serves no useful purpose.

samson818
12-11-2006, 02:43 PM
I hope I did not come across as going down a premeditated path....

I agree with you RAF, not important, just my own curiosity....

It is nice to see Master Jin Li Yen showing applications and his interpretation.
I guess much of it comes from his experience as a bodyguard.

Does his interpretation of the techniques and movements differ much from the core Wutan group?

samson818
12-11-2006, 02:50 PM
I just wanted to thank SPJ and RAF for sharing your knowledge and experiences in Baji.

There is not much written out there, but the both of you have consistently spread the art and your information.

Human beings tend to take and learn...thank you for sharing and teaching.
Please keep doing what you have been doing...it is appreciated by people out there.

RAF
12-11-2006, 04:51 PM
Samson818:

No I wasn't thinking of anyone on the board here--just not wanting to get into the whole idea who and who not has the "real" bajiquan/piguazhang.

GM Liu Yun Qiao takes enough hits from the outside let alone those coming from the inside. Over the years I have heard just about everything about Liu.

If you are interested in baji, under our video gallary we have a new dvd out on the foundational training in bajiquan:

www.wutangcenter.com

Later.:)

samson818
12-11-2006, 06:21 PM
Thanks RAF,

If you dont mind me asking, what does Yang Laoshi cover on his new Baji DVD?
I have Su Yu Chang's and Adam Hsu's tapes...some very good stuff.
Hopefully, his tapes are in English :)

B-Rad
12-11-2006, 08:25 PM
Yeah, I'm curious about the dvd contents too :) BTW, props to RAF on the smooth Gene Ching style product plug ;)

RAF
12-11-2006, 08:45 PM
The Foundational Training of Bajiquan
Volume I (two discs)
I. Basic Stances: Horse, Bow & Arrow, Cat, White Crane, Half Horse Half Bow,
Tiger, Dragon, and Reverse Bow Stances. (baji stances)
II. Warm Up Exercises (there are 8 of them, incl. "Eating the Sun" qi xi)
III. Basic Baji Footwork: Xiong Bu (Bear Walk), Nian Bu (Grinding Step).
IV. Basic Stationary Punches 1-8
V. Kicks: Stretch Kick, Axe Kick, Toe Kick, Double Kick, Heel Kick, Double Heel
Kick, Side Kick, and Double Side Kick.
VI. The basic kicking routine includes: Kicks: Stretch Kick, Axe Kick, Toe Kick,
Double Kick, Heel Kick, Double Heel Kick, Side Kick, and Double Side Kick.
VII. Jin Gang Ba Shi 1-8
· Jin Gang Ba Shi Dui Da (2 person training) 1-8
· Jin Gang Ba Shi Combination Form
· Jin Gang Ba Shi Combination Dui Da (2 person set)
VIII. Collage of Footage from kids performances, etc.

__________________________________________________ _________

Sorry about this---I really don't want to infringe on Gene's website although I am sure we would not mind him carrying our tape.

The next one will be Xiao baji and da baji training. Probably in a year or so.

SPJ
12-12-2006, 08:25 AM
Master Yang's DVD will be a classic and collectible.

--

There is a new book published at the end of 2005.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b343/SPJ/bajibook.jpg

It has a lot of information and diagrams. I have yet to get a copy. I am much interested, since there are songs or Ge Jue (Quan Pu). some said there are a lot of mistakes. -- I am always a big fan for classics/Ge Jue.


图书目录
第一章 八极拳基础理论/1 第一节 八极拳介绍/1 第二节 练习八极拳的好处/5 一、练习八极拳有利于健体/5 二、练习八极拳能提高实战能力/6 第三节 八极拳练习步骤及要领/7 第四节 八极拳的技法要求/10 第五节 八极拳发劲的练法/12 第二章 八极拳基本训练/16 第一节 八极拳的手型、手法/16 一、手型/16 二、手法/18 第二节 八极拳的步型、步法/20 一、步型/20 二、步法/22 第三节 八极拳基本功法/23 一、打沙袋/23 二、搂桩/28 三、靠桩/31 四、站桩/35 五、活步桩(行桩)/37 第三章 八极拳基础套路/42 第一节 六大开/42 一、六大开歌诀(拳谱)/42 二、六大开套路图解/43 第二节 八大招/76 一、八大招歌诀(拳谱)/77 二、八大招套路图解/77 第三节 八极拳母架/93 一、八极拳母架歌诀(拳谱)/93 二、八极拳母架套路图解/94 第四节 八极拳入门架/108 一、八极拳入门架歌诀(拳谱)/109 二、八极拳入门架套路图解/109 第五节 六肘头/125 一、六肘头歌诀(拳谱)/125 二、六肘头套路图解/126 第六节 八极连环拳/135 一、八极连环拳歌诀(拳谱)/135 二、八极连环拳套路图解/136 第四章 八极拳中级套路/149 第一节 八极贴身靠拳/149 一、八极贴身靠拳歌诀(拳谱)/149 二、八极贴身靠拳套路图解/150 …… 第五章 八极拳高级套路第六章 八极拳对练套路第七章 八极拳实战用法第八章 八极拳辅导答疑附录 八极拳十说



--

:)

samson818
12-13-2006, 12:07 AM
What are some of the Quan Pu (Fist songs/poems?) of Bajiquan?

omarthefish
12-13-2006, 08:24 AM
he he....

I'd tell you but then I'd have to kill you.....


Seriously, Baji is not that open. If you can read Chinese there's a lot out there but there's no telling what is actually in the pu and what is just famous sayings and what has been changed or whatever.

The little bit I can think of that is kind of out there in the open, I really can't translate in any concise fashion.

ai bang ji kao, jing han tu zha.

Get close enough to where you are shoulder to shoulder and then bang into them with your whole body. Suddenly explode and spit them out like an explosion.

lol.

So little Chinese translated into so much English.

RAF
12-14-2006, 08:19 PM
Just wanted to make it clear that indeed Ji Li Yen is an excellent martial artist and had a close relationship to Liu Yun Qiao and knows his baji/pigua. I am glad to see him and others advancing the bajiquan of Liu Yun Qiao.

My major point is that there was no one person who inherited the throne from Liu Yun Qiao. Perhaps there was no throne to inherit from the "one who laughs at the Red Dust".

SPJ
12-14-2006, 08:38 PM
Just wanted to make it clear that indeed Ji Li Yen is an excellent martial artist and had a close relationship to Liu Yun Qiao and knows his baji/pigua. I am glad to see him and others advancing the bajiquan of Liu Yun Qiao.

My major point is that there was no one person who inherited the throne from Liu Yun Qiao. Perhaps there was no throne to inherit from the "one who laughs at the Red Dust".

Yes. Master Liu's other name or Zi is laughing dust "Xiao Cheng".

When I was a young boy, we only refered to him as Shi Ye.

I heard many stories about the agents and counter agents.

The thing is that KMT and CCP both started at Whampao or Huang Pu academy. There are many spy rings from both sides. You never know who is on which side, even today.

--

Master Liu had many students. We just simply called everyone in the Liu Pai or line/school. Master Liu will be remembered by so many both in the civilian and servicemen circles.

It is all good. Brotherly luv.

:)