Psoas muscle

[Fu-Pow]

Here is an interesting quote from the Psoas book by Liz Koch:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> The "right centre of gravity" of which Karlfried Graf Von Durkheim refers to in his book "Hara, The Vital Centre of Man" is experienced as a physical sensation and is perceived as an inward attitude known as Hara. Hara literally means belly, and it's physically centered A LITTLE BELOW THE NAVEL, the same area where the psoas resides. Balanced and harmonious movement when the psoas muscle is released and functionally engaged. Likewise, it is from the Hara that a balanced harmonious movement arises, giving birth to a sense of integrated fluidity and wholeness.[/quote]


Hmmmm...slightly below the navel. Sounds suspiciously like the Dan Tien. What is the relationship of the psoas to the dan tien? I realize that the psoas is not a source of power generation, but how does it fit in here? Also, it must be relaxed in Taiji (Wuji posture anyone?) Any thoughts, can anybody direct me to some reading on the anatomical structure related to Taiji?

Thanks in advance.

Fu-Pow

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"Choy Lay Fut Kung Fu does not encourage its students to abuse or harm others with no reason. Nevertheless, in times when Kung Fu must be performed, Choy Lay Fut requires the student to change from a gentleman into a fierce and cold fighter."

-Lee Koon Hung,
CLF:The Dynamic Art of Fighting

[Nexus]

You will find your best answer from a taiji teacher directly IMO. They could probably "show" you where others can only "tell" you.

- Nexus

<font size="1">"Time, space, the whole universe - just an illusion! Often said, philosophically verifiable, even scientifically explainable. It's the <font color="blue">'just'</font> which makes the honest mind go crazy and the <font color="blue">ego</font> go berserk." - Hans Taeger</font>

[IronFist]

I was always under the assumption that in Japanese karate, the "hara" is the same as "Dan Tien" in kung fu?

Iron

[origenx]

For us non-biology majors, what the h*ll is the "psoas" muscle?

[northstar]

The psoas muscle runs from the inside and the side of the lumbar region of the spine (small of the back) down through the bottom of the pelvis and attaches to a part of the upper femur (thigh bone) called trochanter minor.

[stephenchan]

The movement that is easiest to associate with the psoas muscle is when you are lying on your back and you do leg lifts. The psoas muscle plays a big role in that.

You should stop looking for distinct anatomical structures that correspond to the dan tien. It is a waste of time, because there _isn't_ a particular part of your anatomy that is the dan tien - the dan tien's existence is pretty much subjective. If you want to know what your dan tien is about, concentrate on doing neigongs with proper intention.
If you went to Feng's seminar, then I assume that he had you work on zhan zhuang and maybe dan tien rotation exercises. Those are very good for "finding" your dan tien _if_practiced_with_proper_intention_

--
Stephen Chan

[Kevin Wallbridge]

I agree with Stephen Chan that looking for exact anatomical correspondences for things like dantian and mingmen is not time well spent. When using Chinese medical terms then use Chinese models, when thinking in terms of the biomedical paradigm then use biomedical models. They are seperate paradigms/worldviews and while equivalents can be considered, they can never be completely integrated.

This is an issue that we deal with all of the time at the school of Chinese medicine where I teach. The two paradigms support each other, but when you get to a certain point in either one the other is just not relevant. The concept of Dantian is one such place.

That being said I encourage anyone who takes their martial arts seriously to study structural anatomy from a biomedical perspective. This is one of the weakest areas of traditional Chinese science. There were a number of social proscriptions about dead bodies, so no gross anatomy was possible beyond the occasional examination of an executed criminal or battlefield dead. Because a key to internal power is structure the more tools you can bring to bear to understand your body the better.

The psoas is certainly a key link between the upper and lower body and being able to isolate it will give you a profound step towards Song/total body dynamic relaxation.

"The heart of the study of boxing is to have natural instinct resemble the dragon" Wang Xiangzai

[Zhin]

Dantien in chinese is Tan Den in japanese. Not Hara.

[IronFist]

shin, I'm having a brain ****. What is "hara" in English?

Iron

[Kumkuat]

hara means stomach. like in hara kiri, "stomach cutting"

[Wongsifu]

in indian philosophy the body has 7 major chakras or energy centres in chinese we have the du and ren meridians.

in the du and ren we have the 3 dan tiens upper middle and lower the lower dantien is now al ways reffered to in chinese as the dantien, kinda like wushu is now always called kung fu.

in japanese its called tan dem as ... the previous post so rightly said

in indian the 7 chakras are named like sahrasrar mul ad har etc etc

the one that resides just below the navel is called the hara chakra.

its just the indian name for it.

I wongsifu shall strike fear into the hearts of trolls and mma guys who **** me off on these forums oh and in real life.