sword smithing

[kyklos]

I recently picked up the newest copy of this informative magazine and read through all the sword articles. I'm an avid kung-fu practitioner for a good year now and just can't seem to get enough. For quite some time now I have had great interest in the traditional methods of blacksmithing but in swordsmithing in particular. I just graduated college last year and am contemplating whether i should go back for graduate school. Most schools I have looked into on the subject of sword-smithing have it only as a 1 semester specialty added onto their welding and metalworking departments. Seeing as how you guys at the magazine must have an immense list of contacts and references, I was wondering whether perhaps some of those would be able to enlighten me on the path I should take to get into such a career. The education needed and possibly places to get it. I understand it is mostly apprenticeships since there are so few interested in it anymore. Would I have to leave the US? If so any places abroad? Any info would be greatly appreciated by anyone.

Peace

[red5angel]

my guess is you'll have to apprentice if you want the "Real deal". I apprenticed out to a traditional bowyer and never saw anything like a "school" for it. Swords may be different.

[GeneChing]

Thanks for you kind words on our Jan Feb 2005 issue. (http://www.martialartsmart.net/kf2001226.html) First off, making blades is hard, hot, dirty work. Shaping metal takes a lot of physical strength. I worked as a sword maker for several years. I wasn't in a forge. I was a cutler, which means we bought blades and fashioned hilts. It still involved metal shaping and it sucked.
I'm not trying to discourage you, just warn you.
That being said, smiths are either self-taught or have apprenticed under a recognized master. In America, the best resources can be found in knife making magazines. There are bodies that certify master blade makers, although they focus on knife makers. The art of blade making is amazing now. Modern technology has improved the process in many ways. Look to the knive community to find resources - it tags along with the gun shows.

[BruceSteveRoy]

I was curious if any of you make your own swords. If so, where did you learn? I think it might be an interesting hobby to take up but i wasn't sure how to go about learning. Are there trade schools for that sort of thing? Do you have to apprentice under someone that does it? Any information would be appreciated. Thanks.

[The Willow Sword]

www.angelsword.com

Peace,TWS

[Royal Dragon]

I have done my own Bowie knives. I have been in metal fabricateing for a number of years, and it just happened one day.

[jera]

http://www.badgerblades.com/

These swords are realy nice and very cheap for the quality. Unless its a custom sword they cost between $35 and $450.

I got a hand-made batleth from them for about 500 dollers last year. The batleth is by far my favorite weapon in my arsenal.

BTW: here is a picture of a batleth for those who dont know what they are
http://www.weaponscentral.net/fantasyswords/batleth.jpg

[sunfist]

Get involved in reenactment and living history, from there you will find the people who make swords.

Its not something you can pick up quickly, however; a lot of guys make armour, spears, short blades, all kinds of stuff in their spare time, most will buy their swords. So its a fairly specialist skill that will eat up your time and money like no tomorrow, but then so is martial arts, so whatever floats your boat. If its a bit too heavy for you, consider finding a reenactment group that does some more general armouring, its all good fun.


*edit: oh, and go here

http://forums.swordforum.com/

[BruceSteveRoy]

thank you all for your input. it is a good starting point. thats sometimes the hardest thing to find. greatly appreciated.

[Sifu Darkfist]

I procurred all of the tools that i needed for this and got started a bit in the art. however you need to be at a location where you can generate alot of heat in a forge.

Step one look at the properties of metals used for combat blades and the ways they are attained from the forgeing process. Then you can find the homemade forge instructions online. find a source of scrap steel or iron etc. get brine baths and oil baths. Learn the art of woodworking for handles and sheaths study attaching tangs as well as securing handles to decide the best process for the applications you wish to pursue. one note of interest is that if you combine metals in certain ways you can use their individual properties for desired effects.
i.e. japanese katana has a soft core for flexibility and hard edge for incredible sharpness and the ability to hold an edge.

[GeneChing]

Nanotube secrets of Damascus steel blade (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=DJGE40UI4BTVJQFIQMFCFFWAVCBQ YIV0?xml=/news/2006/11/16/nscience216.xml)
By Roger Highfield, Science Editor
Last Updated: 2:23am GMT 17/11/2006

For hundreds of years, some of the keenest minds searched in vain for the secret of how blacksmiths in the ancient Middle East fashioned a tough and flexible metal known as Damascus steel.

The metal was highly prized for its extraordinary mechanical properties and an exceptionally sharp edge, and may have helped Islamic armies repel European crusaders with inferior weapons.

The search for the secret of the shimmering alloy may now be nearing an end, thanks to a study that reveals that the blacksmiths unwittingly managed to create "nanotubes" of carbon, structures at levels of a billionth of a metre.

Elements introduced during the forging process gave rise to the earliest carbon nanotubes on record, according to a study in the journal Nature by a team led by Prof Peter Paufler of the Technische Universitat Dresden.

The team used electron microscopy to study a specimen from a Damascus sabre made in the 17th century. Some remnants show evidence of carbon nanotubes. These, in turn, may have helped form iron carbide nanowires, which might explain the strength and beautiful pattern of the coveted Damascus blades.

Sir Walter Scott's fictional tale of the Crusades described the Islamic army's swords as being "of a dull blue colour, marked with ten millions of meandering lines.".

"To get the pattern, they made grooves into the blade and forged it to remove the steps. This was repeated many times," said Prof Paufler.

Damascus blades are thought to have been forged from small cakes of steel known as "wootz", probably produced in India. A sophisticated treatment was then applied to the steel, but details of this were lost in the 18th century.

Prof Paufler believes that, as further details of this material emerge it might be possible to reproduce the long-lost recipe.

I made swords full time for about a half decade, but I never did any smithing. We bought blades from forges all over Europe and built fittings, scabbards, handles, etc. We did some metal bending and shaping, but no forging whatsoever.

[Vajramusti]

"Damascus blades are thought to have been forged from small cakes of steel known as "wootz", probably produced in India."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Indian metallurgy was very well advanced. Blades of Steel packed in grease were shipped overland on donkeys from India via Iran to Iraq and Syria. Then handle making and sharpening -presto you have the Saracen blade.India's iron age came quite early. But the products generally went westward rather than east ward.
Then later it spreads to the Russian and other sabres and Toledo steel.

Many sword merchants even today contract with Indian forges...for Marine sabres
...check some of the cutlery catalogues and products(Atlanta cutlery etc) in detail--- you will see various kinds of
metal weapons that are subcontracted via Indian forges.

Indian blacksmithing craftsmanship still exists- in the making of functional Sikh swords and Gorkha kukhris.They can withstand great pressures without breaking.

joy chaudhuri

[Mook Jong]

http://www.badgerblades.com/

These swords are realy nice and very cheap for the quality. Unless its a custom sword they cost between $35 and $450.

I got a hand-made batleth from them for about 500 dollers last year. The batleth is by far my favorite weapon in my arsenal.

BTW: here is a picture of a batleth for those who dont know what they are
http://www.weaponscentral.net/fantasyswords/batleth.jpg

I knew that there were klingons living on earth! ;)

[GeneChing]

I would love to see this guy's work.


Man gives up white-collar job to forge swords in Henan (http://shanghaiist.com/2015/04/13/man-gives-up-white-collar-job-forge-swords-henan.php)

http://shanghaiist.com/upload/2015/04/henan-forge-swords-1.jpg

A 33-year-old man has gained fame for crafting swords in a Henan farmhouse after giving up white-collar work five years ago, reports Tencent.

At the age of 28, the man lived a typical metropolitan existence and held stable employment as a mid-level manager at a state-owned enterprise, after previously selling golf products and doing contracting work for a fish pond. It was at this time that the man abandoned his routine existence and moved to a remote farmhouse in a wheat field to follow his dream of becoming a blacksmith.

http://shanghaiist.com/upload/2015/04/henan-forge-swords-2.jpg

The sword-enthusiast chose an ideal location to pursue his passion. The nearby town of Guying has a blacksmithing history dating back 2,000 years to the Han dynasty, and his new workshop is within a kilometre of the ancient site for iron manufacturing from the Han dynasty.

http://shanghaiist.com/upload/2015/04/henan-forge-swords-3.jpg

The man's story would surely appeal to "Game of Thrones" fans, and the profitability of his enterprise may inspire others willing to escape the 9-5 rat race and create their own medieval-style niche. These splendid-looking swords sell for between 100,000 and 200,000 RMB (16,000 to 32,000 USD) apiece.

While we never knew the sword-smelting industry was so lucrative in 2015, we wholly endorse the success of those who give up everything to follow their dreams. In 2014, the story of a humble Hebei animator went viral when his Ukrainian excursion yielded a beautiful wife and profitable business.

[curenado]

You will become wholly, obsessively addicted. It's so great!
Museums, re-enactors, renaissance - depending where you are other guys working.
Get a book called "practical blacksmithing" and a modern short cut version that has handy metal tables like Jack Andrews "edge of the anvil" (is one of the better fast facts and tables beginner guides. I used to give them those two books when they started..)
That gives you fast start up and substantive theory for practice

[GeneChing]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvqyNOYIJ9Y

4K Katana Project SPOT

[Jimbo]

Gene,

Have you seen the History Channel series Forged in Fire? Each episode, they get 4 experienced custom knifemakers and they must make a knife from raw materials provided (with certain rules) within a 3 to 4 hour time limit. Then the 'experts' test various aspects of each knife (balance/feel, cutting/stabbing ability, temper, toughness, etc.). The final 2 who make it through must then create their own versions of historical weapons (usually swords, but sometimes battle axes, etc.) that must be fully completed within 5 days. These are again tested to determine the winner.

I don't know how long the show will last, but it's pretty darned interesting if you're into bladed weapons/tools. Obviously, in their own shops, the makers take much more time on individual pieces than the show allows.

[boxerbilly]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAVpln6IXlk

I don't care for the show to much. Just not my thing. But Doug I like greatly.

[GeneChing]

Have you seen the History Channel series Forged in Fire?
No, I didn't even know about it. Is it new? I'll give it a look. I think I History Channel that on my AppleTV.

I tried to watch Big Giant Swords on Discovery Channel (http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/big-giant-swords/) but it wasn't working for me.

[Jimbo]

No, I didn't even know about it. Is it new? I'll give it a look. I think I History Channel that on my AppleTV.

I tried to watch Big Giant Swords on Discovery Channel (http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/big-giant-swords/) but it wasn't working for me.

I think it's new. I first heard about it on another forum I'm a member of, bladeforms, but I never watched it until I caught part of a Forged in Fire marathon yesterday. TBH, the makers cannot do their best work, because it's time-limited for the show. But it's fascinating how quickly someone can take a billet of steel or a train spring and turn it into a functional blade when necessary.

[sanjuro_ronin]

knife and sword making is something I would love to do, if I had the time.

[Featherstone]

I'm going to be doing a 3 day intensive class with dog house forge (http://www.doghouseforge.com/clinic-info) in a couple of weekends on knife making. Something I've been looking forward to learning / doing for some time.

[GeneChing]

This is an issue worldwide. Just not the market for it anymore.


Japan is running out of swordsmiths, and a strict apprenticeship requirement is a big reason why (http://en.rocketnews24.com/2017/08/15/japan-is-running-out-of-swordsmiths-and-a-strict-apprenticeship-requirement-is-a-big-reason-why/)
Casey Baseel yesterday

https://sociorocketnewsen.files.wordpress.com/2017/08/ss-12.png?w=580&h=382

Want to make katana for a living? Hope you don’t mind not getting paid a single yen for the next five years.

Although it might sound unusual for artifacts with a centuries-long history, swords are currently in vogue in Japan. Museum exhibitions of historically significant katana have been attracting large, enthusiastic crowds in recent years, but the blades’ surging popularity is yet to solve a few problems.

In 1989, the Japanese Swordsmith Association counted 300 registered swordsmiths in the country. Not 20 years later, that number has been nearly cut in half, with only 188 smiths currently registered, and their average age rapidly increasing.

Swordsmithing isn’t just an industry, it’s also part of Japan’s cultural heritage. To preserve the craft, Tetsuya Tsubouchi, one of the Japanese Swordsmith Association’s directors, says two things have to be done. First, new swordsmiths have to be trained and certified to replace the craftsmen who’re retiring or otherwise being lost to old age, but there are some major hurdles in the way.

https://sociorocketnewsen.files.wordpress.com/2017/08/ss-2.png?w=580&h=435

Not just anyone start hammering away and producing swords for sale in Japan. Practitioners are required to first serve as an apprentice under a registered swordsmith for a period of five years. These apprenticeships are unpaid, meaning that blacksmithing could be considered one of Japan’s harsh “black enterprises.” Those who want to complete the training must either burn through savings they amassed working in another field (before quitting that job to start their apprenticeship) or rely on financial support from their families. But while Japanese parents are generally willing to invest in their children’s education, it’s pretty difficult to convince Mom and Dad to cover all of your living expenses for a half-decade so that you can take a shot at making it in as niche an industry as swordsmithing. As a result, Tsubouchu says that though there’s actually been a recent uptick in apprenticeship applications, very few apprentices actually make it to the end of their five-year training period.

Even if they do complete their apprenticeship, prospective smiths still have to pass a national certification test, which takes place over a period of eight days. The test is offered only once a year, so if you fail, you’ve got a long wait until you get to take another swing at it. Oh, and once that’s all done, the estimated cost to set up a swordsmithing business of your own is 10 million yen (US$91,000), an amount of seed money that’s kind of hard to scrape together when your last paycheck was five years ago.

https://sociorocketnewsen.files.wordpress.com/2017/08/ss-3.png?w=580&h=435

The other thing the industry needs, Tsubouchi says, is new customers. Collectors of art and antiquities have long been happy to buy and sell historical pieces, but a demand for preexisting blades isn’t creating much work for present-day smiths. What they need are people who’re interested in buying freshly forged swords, especially since they can7t just sell batches to the local samurai warlord like their predecessors in the feudal era did.

Luckily, a surge in popularity among sword-carrying anime and video game characters (some of which are actually swords themselves), as well as cosplayers dressed as those characters, has raised awareness of katana among young people, especially Japanese women, who’ve been showing a renewed interest in Japanese history in general over the past decade. Tsubouchi also points to collaborative efforts such as exhibitions that combine anime and katana aesthetics, such as a popular traveling display of swords inspired by the Evangelion franchise.

Tsubouchi also sees potential in the fact that rekijo, as Japan calls women with an interest in samurai history, range in age from teens up through women in their 30s and 40s. The director points out that in the past, it was often older, married men who wanted to buy katana to keep as family heirlooms, only to have the idea shot down as overly extravagant by the women of their household. But if both husband and wife, and maybe their daughter too, are keen on having a sword on display in the home, that purchase becomes a lot more justifiable.

https://sociorocketnewsen.files.wordpress.com/2017/08/ss-4.png?w=580&h=390

The hope, Tsubouchi says, is not necessarily for new customers to convince people to buy ultra-premium pieces, but rather to cultivate a market for Japanese swords that are within the budget of even people who aren’t wealthy art collectors. He even muses about the possibility of reestablishing the largely forgotten custom of omamorigatana, in which swords were given as a good luck charm commemorating auspicious occasions such as births and marriages.

Still, with Japan placing so much importance on financial stability, it’s going to be an uphill battle encouraging people to seriously consider a career in swordsmithing, at least until there’s some solid evidence that all those people lining up to see swords at the museum would be genuinely willing to buy one for themselves.

Source: Yahoo! News Japan/Oricon News via Otakomu
Images ©SoraNews24

[TaichiMantis]

This was on the History Channel in October. Former champions went head to head. The second place sword wasn't even close to the winner!
http://www.history.com/shows/forged-in-fire/season-4/episode-21

[GeneChing]

It really sucks when your neighbor is a *******. :mad:


Mayor: Amateur bladesmith started massive Cohoes blaze (http://m.sfgate.com/news/article/Flames-consuming-large-building-in-Cohoes-12395747.php)
21 buildings damaged or destroyed, 20 people displaced
Bethany Bump, Emily Masters, Skip Dickstein and Lynda Edwards Dec 1, 2017

http://ww3.hdnux.com/photos/67/63/62/14630058/5/920x920.jpg
Photo: Lori Van Buren, Albany Times Union
Firefighters from around the region work to control a multi-structure fire on Remsen Street on Thursday, Nov. 30, 2017 in Cohoes, N.Y. (Lori Van Buren / Times Union)

COHOES — A fire stoked by 20 to 30 mph winds destroyed or damaged nearly two dozen downtown buildings and was traced to a man who was trying to forge a blade over a burning barrel, according to authorities.

Thursday's inferno — the likes of which have rarely been seen in the Capital Region —destroyed three structures, damaged 18 other buildings and displaced at least 20 people. A firefighter was taken to the hospital with unspecified injuries, but remarkably no other injuries were reported.

"It is the worst disaster the city has ever seen," Mayor Shawn Morse said at an evening press conference that appeared on a live broadcast. The city is under a state of emergency.


Within six hours of when the fire started — and while it was still burning — John A. Gomes, 51, of Cohoes was charged with felony reckless endangerment and misdemeanor arson.

http://ww3.hdnux.com/photos/67/63/77/14630862/6/920x920.jpg
Photo: Lori Van Buren, Albany Times Union
John Gomes, 51, is arraigned in Cohoes City Court for being a suspect in a multi-structure fire on Remsen Street on Thursday, Nov. 30, 2017 in Cohoes, N.Y. The charges are arson in the 4th and reckless endangerment in the 1st.(Lori Van Buren / Times Union)

Gomes is accused of starting a barrel fire in his backyard that quickly spread out of control, Morse said. The fire is said to have started in the rear of a building near 228 Remsen St., where Gomes lives. The mayor said Gomes was trying to bend metal in an apparent attempt to mimic the History Channel television series "Forged in Fire" about bladesmithing.

Assistant police Chief Tom Ross classified the fire as unintentional, or "reckless arson."

"We often tell people we don't allow open burns in the city and they often say, 'What's the worst that could happen?'" Morse said. "Well, this open burn just caused millions of dollars of damage and destroyed half our downtown."

Gomes was arraigned by City Court Judge Thomas Marcelle. He pleaded not guilty and was jailed on $15,000 bail. The public defenders assigned to Gomes' case said the man has lived in the city since 1999 and has two children. A preliminary hearing has been scheduled for 9 a.m. Tuesday.

The fire overtook large swaths of downtown Remsen Street at 2 p.m., turning brick structures into collapsing fireballs, until it was brought under control at 5 p.m. An hour later, flames broke out again and ignited buildings on the 170 block of Remsen Street.

Albany County Fire Coordinator Jerry Paris said wind gusts carried embers across blocks and over buildings.

Some of Cohoes' most prominent businesses were affected. Smith's tavern and restaurant, known for the length of its bar, and Rizzo's flower shop were badly damaged. The former home of Claremont's Tavern collapsed before dusk.

By night's end, Morse said, three city blocks had been engulfed in smoke and flames.

Assemblyman John McDonald, a former city mayor, said the garage of his family business, Marra's Pharmacy, was one of the three buildings that fire leveled. The structure held inventory and records, he said.

A vacant church at Mohawk and White streets had hot spots from burning materials on its roof, McDonald said.

"The village of Menands saved that church," said Common Council member Randy Koniowka, referring to the volunteer fire department that doused the building with water.

Firefighters expressed concern over the possibility that asbestos dust was being blown through the downtown streets. One said soaking the rubble makes it less likely for asbestos or other toxins to be carried in the wind. That makes the area safer for for crews clearing the debris and passersby.

A column of smoke from the fire could be seen for several miles off. Meanwhile, power was cut in much of the downtown, forcing businesses blocks from the fire to close.

Weather conditions Thursday were dry and windy, with gusts up to 30 mph. The last measurable rain was one-100th of an inch that fell on Sunday, said meteorologist Kevin Lipton at the National Weather Service in Albany. Total rainfall for the month was 0.79 inches, well below the 3.29 inch average for November. Rain did start falling later in the evening in the region.

Fear, compassion

Kawaun Carrethers, 24, said he was at work when he saw the news and noticed his 200 Remsen St. apartment was near the fire. He immediately worried about his girlfriend, who he knew was inside, asleep with a broken phone. The woman said firefighters knocked on the door to get her and two of their three cats out.

Firefighters from Cohoes, Albany, Watervliet, Green Island, Menands, North Bethlehem and other departments were battling the flames, leaving several inches of water filling the street.

http://ww4.hdnux.com/photos/67/63/47/14629371/3/920x920.jpg
Photo: SKIP DICKSTEIN, Albany Times Union
A woman is in tears as firefighters from around the region work their best to knock down a multi-alarm fire consumes a number of building on Remsen Street Thursday Nov. 30, 2017 in Cohoes, NY. (Skip Dickstein/ Times Union)

McDonald had been in Albany when he received word of the blaze. Seeing the column of smoke grow larger as he drove north, he recalled, "I could tell it wasn't going to be good."

McDonald likened the long line of fire trucks ranked along Remsen Street to a Memorial Day parade and later recalled that another blaze had destroyed the same block in 1988.

John Gomes, 16, got a call about the fire and rushed to his home, finding it destroyed. "My house is on fire. It was on fire — it's gone now," he said.

Gomes' dog and a dog in another apartment were trapped inside the burning building, but a firefighter got inside to save the animals, he said. It could not be determined if he is related to the man arrested.

Diana Toyas had just picked up her son Troy, 4, from preschool when they saw the smoke. Some of the firefighters who had visited Troy's class that day for community outreach were now trying to douse the burning buildings.

The youngster was amazed by the flow of about three inches of water flowing down the street from hydrants and hoses.

"I love this street; the (city) has worked hard to revive it but there are a lot of empty buildings on it," Toyas said.

Volunteers from the Northeastern New York chapter of the American Red Cross arrived as dusk fell. People who fled a burning building wearing t-shirts and jeans were glad to climb inside the warm Red Cross truck where volunteers offered to wrap them in big blankets as protection against the cold wind.

The agency later said it provided financial assistance for necessities such as shelter, food and clothing to 11 different families, consisting of 16 adults and two children, ages 1 and 10.

Paul Marra wore his Albany County coroner jacket as he watched the fire and recalled the 1988 fire.

"We lost a street. The wind wouldn't quit, It just kept blowing embers from one building to a rooftop to trees," he said. "I hope this isn't like that one."

Later Thursday evening, five hours after the fire first started, 44-year-old Amy Roach still didn't know if her apartment at 169 Remsen St. had been damaged.

But she was OK, she said, thanks to the kindness of strangers she encountered throughout the night, like the CDTA bus driver who let Roach and others on his warm bus while they waited for news, or the emergency worker who volunteered to drive her to the community shelter since her multiple sclerosis made it hard to walk.

"I'm more worried about the guy downstairs who I know walks with a cane," she said. "I've been walking up and down the block looking for him, even though he must be OK because the firefighters said so."

"I don't know if I lost my house," she added. "But I'm crying for the people who lost everything. It's just so disheveling — to see how quickly things can fall right apart."