Old Seven Star Photographs.

[Redfish]

Just to be clear, when I say 'old' photographs I mean photos from the start of commercially available cameras with roll film, 1880's, up the start of the pacific war in 1937.

Just doing some research and writing over here. In Seven Star we are all loaded up with Luo Guang Yu photographs including complete sets. And there's a bunch more that are not around the net too.

So, I've been reading histories on some Shangdong sites, especially Sifu Tunk's really well written history page. There still this idea there that Luo changed the system - to explain away the modern differences in Shandong now. So, what I want to know is - if Fan Xu Dong's style is better represented by those clubs going through Lin Jing Shan - do we have any photos showing this that I can see?

Specifically, photos of 60-40 stances or long/open circle entering stances with rolled over back feet etc - from 1880-1937 - of Lin Jing Shan or other Fan Xu Dong students who are not Luo Guang Yu? Can we post them in this thread please.

I know they exist. I met Sifu Angelo D'aria and he showed me a really good one of Lin Jing Shan opposite a student in a pose from a two man form. In standard hill climbing stances of course, no different from LGY lineage clubs now.

They are out there. I'd love to see them to help confirm some stuff I've been reading.

Thanks all.

Redfish.

[B.Tunks]

RF,

Thanks for positive comments re the site. Although it may come across as 'explaining away' the differences beweeen the various streams, that was not my intention. In fact, I believe the evidence points to more similarities than differences between Luo and his brothers. Some of my historical interpretations may be potentially offensive to some and indeed in some instances totally incorrect, however, I believe Luo's martial skill speaks for itself regardless of what someone like me may say in an effort to try and explain 300 plus years in a nutshell.

Regarding photo evidence, unfortunately I don't own the relevant photos to post. I have seen a number of photos of Lin Jingshan showing bufa including, duli, dengshan and qixing bu, unfortunately not yuhuan/ruhuan. Not to say that they don't exist, but that I just haven't seen them. I have seen a number of early 20C pics of 4/6 stance however, personally I believe it was most likely not used as often as it is these days (However, I have trained with descendants of a very old line of Qixing that uses no kuahu at all, only 4/6 as it's rear weighted stance and Liuhe is definitely the same). Even within 'representatives' of my own branch there are those that favour the wide open yuhuan/ruhuan and substitute the kuahu with 4/6. My teacher and his teacher didn't. Having said that, I have also seen old photos of a more open yuhuan bu (or it's equivalent)- the Hao family TJMH ba bu comes to mind.

Sorry I couldn't be more helpful. I believe the evidence will probably remain inconclusive either way, but I'm not too worried as I believe the applications rather than appearances, should speak for themselves.

BT

[jimdimag]

Just doing some research and writing over here. In Seven Star we are all loaded up with Luo Guang Yu photographs including complete sets. And there's a bunch more that are not around the net too.


This may be off topic a little, and I might have misunderstood what you said here, but are there are 7 Star Mantis sets on the web freely visible / printable? If so, where ?

Thanks,
Jim

[Redfish]

Jim

There's a full set of Beng Bu on Master Kai Uwe Pel's site under the 'tang lang' section.

the site (http://www.tanglang.lifehome-china.com)

@ Tunks Sifu

The history section is nicely set out with a higher standard of writing on your site. Credit where credit is due. Thanks for the reply. I'm just after 7-star only for now. Maybe my stance examples seemed too narrow. I mean showing any of the clear differences we have now between modern Lin Jing Shan clubs and what you refer to on the site as 'Jing Wu' influenced style.

Also, I love old photos :)

Redfish.

[B.Tunks]

RF,

Thanks again. Unfortunately I don't have anything pre-1940. There is the exact thing you're after in my teachers estate (which is not yet finalised) and my uncles and aunty have pre-1940's stuff too. Hopefully I can scan something when next in China.

Maybe some of Zhong Lianbao's descendants could help with your request? I have seen most of the Yu Tiancheng's descendants pics of Lin Jingshan, as mentioned. To be honest there is not much beyong formal seated photos or posed weapons sparring from that long ago, and only from the masters/schools who could afford it. Camera's were a luxury and not easily available in the country side especially. Lin Jingshan was also very poor all of his life and photos were not taken of him until quite late.

Hopefully one day I can shed some light on it.

BT

[Redfish]

Thanks again.

Yeah, the post was directed at all the clubs from that background, including Yu Tiancheng family and Zhong Lianbao also. I just mentioned you in the original post cos that history page stuck out.

So ..yeah, anyone.

Redfish.