Pak Mei Broadsword?

[Vince]

Does there exist a Pak Mei (CLC) Broadsword Form? And if: is this an original Pak Mei Form or is it adopted from another style? I am curious since i have seen some Pak Mei empty hand forms and would like to see Pak Mei Principles in some Broadsword form.

[Yum Cha]

There are two broadsword forms in Pak Mei, a single and a double.

The double sword is probably more famous, the flying phoenix double swords.

You'll find that most weapons forms come from a generic mix of styles, but are than stylised for a given system. The saying goes, the hand is the mother, the stick is the father and the other weapons are the children. Meaning that the hand and staff create the transition to weapons fighting, and the other weapons build upon those skills. Thus, the weapon becomes an extension of the hand, and picks up on those fundamentals.

If it comes from CLC, its real Pak Mei. However, people usually consider the tiger fork, the tonfas and the double sword, in addition to the staff forms, to be the most notable Pak Mei weapons forms, but there are several others.

[Vince]

Thanks
good to know that. I remember seeing once a form called lun(g)* fu dan dao (*= dragon or whirling???, don't know...), could this be the single broadsword form? I never could connect that one to a style...

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Any links to a video of Bok Mei weapons? I learned a BM staff form, but really havent seen a lot of the weapons. Any links people??

I've seen the BM Tiger fork, I've seen my teacher do it, but I really had no interest in learning it. I have never seen the Tonfa form or any BM broadsword.

Anybody got anything on them???

[Olaf]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mkuz4PZi6vg

That is one of Pak Mei staff. So far I haven't come across clips of other Pak Mei weapons online so far. I like the trident myself, great exercise!

[drleungjohn]

Greetings all-I was just curious as to Pak Mei players take on it's "legends and histories" wrt Shaolin and yada,yada,yada

I would also like to know if there are any PM PRACTITONERS ON LONG ISLAND-yes,I know about Manhattan

Thanks
John

[Lama Pai Sifu]

John, I do some Bok Mei at my schools. LONG ISLAND and QUEENS.

[Vince]

Too bad there isn't a video out with a pak mei dan dao form...

[Olaf]

Personally I don't think I have ever seen a pak mei broadsword form. OK, some schools have a broadsword form incorporated in their curriculum but I don't know if there is an 'original' broadsword form.

[drleungjohn]

many thanks-I was aware of that(I do my homework)-I was looking for someone fluent in CLC or Foshan version

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Cool. I only learned a few of the CLC forms. 4 hand forms, 2 weapon forms. I like the style a lot, from a technique point of view, and I prefer (over most others) when I'm in trapping range (about to go to grappling/throwing). But I don't dig doing the forms that much, a lot of stress on the joints and the posture can be stressing on the body when you practice it too much. Good luck in your quest though.

MP

[keilun]

Bak Mei has 2 Broadsword forms actually, and both are traditional (from Jeung Lai Cheun)!

Seun Fung Daan Do - Tornado Broadsword
:CLC was reported, for reasons of his own, to teach a particular student either Seun Fung Daan Do or Wui Waan Seung Gwai (tonfas), but not both. It appears that the tonfa form was more often taught, but the broadsword form did get out there. And if you ask Sifus with the Sword form they probably wont have the Tonfa form, and vice versa.

Dei Tong Daan Do - Ground Broadsword
:another seldom taught form from CLC, probably because of all the ground work involved. I know several lineages with this form, one of the better know being Wilkie Wu.

The Flying Phoenix Double Broadswords , Soul Chasing Willow Leaf Double Swords (Butterfly Swords), and the Green Dragon Straightsword are indeed the better known of the Bak Mei sword forms.:)

[Yum Cha]

Dr Leung John,
The legends? All true. I myself have fought 23 Hung Kuen players to the death and do my best to burn down every shaolin school within a 100km radius. I am practically invunlerable, however the eyes and throat are still weak. I hope to have the throat invincible by next year. All it takes is a bit of training, and some of the secret medicine....and a little more of the secret medicine, and a little more of the secret medicine....



Hey Kei Lun, how ya doing.

I'm told the Tonfas were created from a melon knife form (butterfly knifes), because to kill somebody with a stick was a much lesser crime than to kill somebody with a blade. :D

BTW, Sifu is no big fan of weapons, but your hypothesis holds true with us, we have the single and double swords, but no Tonfas. Does that groundwork sword form have the bit where you roll around like a breakdancer cutting everybody's feet off? And the kip up attack with the two swords as well?

[keilun]

Hey Yumcha, hows things been?

Yes, the Ground Broadsword has alot of rolling and spinning moves like breakdancing, Ive never seen the student who enjoys learning this form to be honest, so it will probably be abandoned by all one day.

Both sword forms are good, but theres nothing unique there that makes it Bak Mei. An onlooker wouldnt have a clue to which style they belong, but then again most broadsword forms are like that.

Ive never heard of the "melon knife", but cutting fruit is definately not an application that Ive considered!:) Anyway, the tonfas ("gwai" in chinese) are the handles of stone grinders used to crush beancurd. Few styles use them, other than Bak Mei... Tai Mantis is the only style I can think of.

Peace

[Yum Cha]

Yea, I agree, to my mind, nothing about the weapons is Pak Mei per se. Can't really speak for other arts. I've always felt weapons were generic for the most part.

But, when you do the weapons with Pak Mei skills, I guess they take on a somewhat unique flavour, subtle though it may be. For example, the way you "pop" a thin wu shu blade, a good pak mei player can get a wee pop out of standard dragon forge one.

I've seen the "breakdancing" double sword form a number of times, its the kind of thing you teach the younger kids, they are the only ones limber enough! hahahaha.

I think Tonfas are more popular in Japan. What ya reckon?

Yea, the way a melon knife flips around, and has the trapping guard kinda relates to the Tonfa, and the way it protects the forearm, but I've not seen the forms, just had a chin-wag or two on what and wherefore. I can see the sense in it.

[Tiger on Duty]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9a8Q96C3MO4

An old clip of my sihing doing double phoenix.

[Olaf]

I tend to disagree with the fact that the pak mei weapon forms would be generic. Let me put upfront that I only know the trident and staff sets but they feature the use of the six powers and the float sink spit swallow principles. Yes, they may have come from other systems (like Li Gar) but over the cause of time and through the involvement of Cheung Lai Cheun they have certainly been 'Pak Mei-ised'.

[Phuc Carem]

Oh yeah well I beat up 30 girls named Wing Chun and made them leave town LOL
Dr Leung John,
The legends? All true. I myself have fought 23 Hung Kuen players to the death and do my best to burn down every shaolin school within a 100km radius. I am practically invunlerable, however the eyes and throat are still weak. I hope to have the throat invincible by next year. All it takes is a bit of training, and some of the secret medicine....and a little more of the secret medicine, and a little more of the secret medicine....



Hey Kei Lun, how ya doing.

I'm told the Tonfas were created from a melon knife form (butterfly knifes), because to kill somebody with a stick was a much lesser crime than to kill somebody with a blade. :D

BTW, Sifu is no big fan of weapons, but your hypothesis holds true with us, we have the single and double swords, but no Tonfas. Does that groundwork sword form have the bit where you roll around like a breakdancer cutting everybody's feet off? And the kip up attack with the two swords as well?

[Vince]

I found on youtube a "tiger tornado broadsword" - form here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bN7CRsVrS4E. First: I don't expect that to be the pak mei broadsword form, but if some of you knowing people who have seen the actual form could comment on if it is anything like it (its probably not).
Thanks ahead.

[Yum Cha]

Hi Vince,
The first form has some characteristics similar to the version I know of the single sword, and the last has some common moves as well.

That being said, keep in mind that the swords are not that Pak Mei centric, in my opinion. There are some basic techniques for using a single and double dao, and you will see them in a lot of exhibitions of those weapons.

The guy doing the forms was well skilled, and used the weapons with vigor. That in itself sets the performance apart. Of course, he was using the big 9 ringed broadsword but I think it was a light weight wu shu blade, not a heavy one.

Cheers

[Vince]

I found another one: http://www.nccma.co.uk/videos.htm# there is a form call seun fung do (tornado broadsword). Is this it (probably not)? Or any other comments/opinions on that one?

Then I found this page: http://hometown.aol.co.uk/pakmeikuen/page2.html where at the bottom is a form called: Lun Fu Dan Do Kuen. Any ideas on that one?

Thanks ahead.

[Vince]

I guess the above mentioned "Lun Fu Dan Dao" means also tornado/WHIRLwind (single) broadsword.

Furthermore a Bak Mei Saber video appeared at youtube, here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1S1114FdAs

[Vince]

another possible pak mei broadsword video (may be). unusual i think would be the one-legged stances, i guess.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grHAn-bTl3o

Comments?

[jit fu]

this is choy li fut dahn do set...king mui lineage.

[Vince]

thanks for clearing that up.

[jit fu]

no problem...i do have the set you are asking about on video.

[Vince]

you mean the choy li fut set?

[jit fu]

no, the bak mei dahn do.

[Vince]

For real? That's great. ... Would you mind sharing?

[jit fu]

pm me and we'll see what can be worked out.

[Vince]

a new video came up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDn1PxkFKUA